Help with first studio lighting kit....

brucegill · 11 Oct 2014

Hi there

I've read a number of posts on here and have a few questions about a first purchase (probably from Lencarta)

I've been using a couple of YONGNUO YN-560III with a Yongnuo YN560-TX Flash controller. All on a Fuji XT1 and Fuji X100S. I have a couple of small umbrellas, a 150mm umbrella, two good stands and a big 5 in 1 reflector. These have been great, super cheap way into flash photography.

I love portrait photography but don't currently have a studio. I'm looking at individual portraits, no big groups at the moment, maybe two kids at most. Some will be against a background, some on location as such. Some of these locations will have power, some won't (couple of projects will be set in a forest, and no, its not porn

). I've also been asked to do some food photography and product photography.

Basically, I'm starting out and I'm getting to the point I need some more serious lighting. A soft box is my next step for a few shots I'm needing to do soon.

I can't work out how much power I need. I don't think my needs or budget can stretch to the Safari but, I can see it would pay off in the long run. But at £700 for one light and then still need to budget for a soft box and grid.

Would I be able to use say one Safari 2 600w head and still be able to control my YN-560III as fills or background lights? Im guessing the Safafri will kick out so much more power that the YN-560III will be useless.

For some food photography I could do with a soft box and some more power to get to a more usable aperture.

Think I've just managed to ramble for too long. Hopefully theres enough info to get some advice

I'm sure its obvious I'm not proficient with lighting from some of my rambling

Cheers
Bruce

simonbarker · 11 Oct 2014

Not my area of expertise but your Yongnuo is somewhere in the 70 w/s mark range so at full power the Safari will overpower it considerably but do you really think you'll be using full power that much? With a basic arrangement indoors I'd have assumed you'll more often be in the 50-200 range where the Yongnuo could continue to work as a fill, spot, hair light etc.

brucegill · 11 Oct 2014

simonbarker said:
Not my area of expertise but your Yongnuo is somewhere in the 70 w/s mark range so at full power the Safari will overpower it considerably but do you really think you'll be using full power that much? With a basic arrangement indoors I'd have assumed you'll more often be in the 50-200 range where the Yongnuo could continue to work as a fill, spot, hair light etc.

Thanks for the info... yup, can't see I'd be at full power much at all. Well, not with portraits.

HoppyUK · 11 Oct 2014

200Ws will give you something in the region of f/11-16 in a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, at 100ISO. IMH that's just about right for the sort of thing you want to do. Not only do you not need more power, you actually don't want it most of the time - you'll likely be around 1/4 power. You can't go wrong with a Smartflash-2.

Bear in mind that with studio flash (no significant ambient light) then bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power in exposure terms, two stops quadruples it etc. Use that for larger groups etc.

gary996 · 11 Oct 2014

Yes the yongnuo's will work with the safari as fills. As said you won't need all that power and the + side of that is it will recycle twice as fast and then some

Phil V · 11 Oct 2014

HoppyUK said:
200Ws will give you something in the region of f/11-16 in a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, at 100ISO. IMH that's just about right for the sort of thing you want to do. Not only do you not need more power, you actually don't want it most of the time - you'll likely be around 1/4 power. You can't go wrong with a Smartflash-2.

Bear in mind that with studio flash (no significant ambient light) then bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power in exposure terms, two stops quadruples it etc. Use that for larger groups etc.

This^
Honestly, buy studio lights and hire portable when it's necessary.

That's speaking as someone who's first decent studio light was a Safari2! But my primary need for something better than speedlights was for overpowering the sun. Your requirement is primarily mains powered 'studio' work.

brucegill · 12 Oct 2014

HoppyUK said:
200Ws will give you something in the region of f/11-16 in a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, at 100ISO. IMH that's just about right for the sort of thing you want to do. Not only do you not need more power, you actually don't want it most of the time - you'll likely be around 1/4 power. You can't go wrong with a Smartflash-2.

Bear in mind that with studio flash (no significant ambient light) then bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power in exposure terms, two stops quadruples it etc. Use that for larger groups etc.

Many thanks! Thats some great info for me

And I embarrassingly admit to not even thinking about bumping my iso lol. How id forgotten about this I have no idea. It's all pretty new to me so really appreciate the help, thank you.

Phil V said:
This^
Honestly, buy studio lights and hire portable when it's necessary.

That's speaking as someone who's first decent studio light was a Safari2! But my primary need for something better than speedlights was for overpowering the sun. Your requirement is primarily mains powered 'studio' work.

Thanks Phil, I'd been thinking about it over night and had kinda come to this reasoning.

Does anyone know if Lencarta warranty is transferable if I bought secondhand? (assuming they're only a few months old.)

Phil V · 12 Oct 2014

brucegill said:
...
Thanks Phil, I'd been thinking about it over night and had kinda come to this reasoning.

Does anyone know if Lencarta warranty is transferable if I bought secondhand? (assuming they're only a few months old.)

I've no idea, but finding newish ones second hand might be a problem.

Sir SR · 12 Oct 2014

brucegill said:
Many thanks! Thats some great info for me And I embarrassingly admit to not even thinking about bumping my iso lol. How id forgotten about this I have no idea. It's all pretty new to me so really appreciate the help, thank you.

Thanks Phil, I'd been thinking about it over night and had kinda come to this reasoning.

Does anyone know if Lencarta warranty is transferable if I bought secondhand? (assuming they're only a few months old.)

Not sure of they are transferable. I have a smartflash 1 and ultrapro 300 bought from new and two smart flash 1's bought second hand. They're well built and have been reliable for me.

That said should the worst happen I "believe" the repair costs are very reasonable.

It may be hard as Phil says to get a smartflash 2 second hand.

S

Garry Edwards · 13 Oct 2014

Warranties are a contract between the seller and the buyer, so the contract ends if the goods are then sold to a new owner - the only exception to this is where the goods are sold (new) to a dealer, who then passes them on, still new, to his buyer.

Our out of warranty cost policy is to charge for repairs at cost, different manufacturers have different policies, but our policy is that we don't want to make a profit out of someone else's bad luck.

Going back to the original question.
1. Forget about power (for indoor use) because 200Ws per head is plenty for nearly all shoots, and as Hoppy points out, increasing the ISO if necessary will deal with the odd exception. It's very different outdoors, where there is bright ambient light messing things up.
2. Always go for the equipment designed specifically for the job, i.e. mains powered flash indoors, hotshoe flash where you just need to add a bit of light outdoors, or for very quick shots indoors, portable flash (e.g. Safari) when you need to take control of the lighting outdoors. You can of course also use the Safari as a studio flash, but then you lose out on the fast recycling of studio flash, you can use studio flash outdoors but that requires either long extension leads or a battery/inverter, so not ideal. Hotshoe flashes used in conjunction with either portable or mains powered flash can be incredibly useful, you often only need a touch of light.
3. The equipment needs for portrait/general purpose studio photography and product/still life photography are basically similar, but you really also need to get a boom arm and at least one tight honeycomb for a lot of product shots.

juggler · 13 Oct 2014

Phil V said:
This^
Honestly, buy studio lights and hire portable when it's necessary.

Interesting idea.. I'm still dithering between an Atom 360 and Safari 2.
Calumet's minimum hire with delivery is 3 days, so buying would probably save money after 4 hires. Not sure what the flash centre's prices are.

Back to the original question - I often use YN560IIIs to supplement studio lighting, as effects lights, hair lights, with gels or whatever. They work just fine so long as the studio lights turn down low enough and you don't shoot too fast. Distance is key. I haven't looked at any difference of colour temperature; it's not yet been critical for me to have the YN560s match the studio lights exactly.

brucegill said:
Hi there

I love portrait photography but don't currently have a studio. I'm looking at individual portraits, no big groups at the moment, maybe two kids at most. Some will be against a background, some on location as such. Some of these locations will have power, some won't (couple of projects will be set in a forest, and no, its not porn ). I've also been asked to do some food photography and product photography.

Will you actually be setting up a studio? With a variety of modifiers?
I'm still dithering because I can cheaply hire a variety of studios with a huge choice of kit.

After much help from @Garry Edwards I made a minimal (for me) shopping list based around a single Atom 360 and winced at the total cost of nearly £1400 by the time I'd included a strip box + grid, octabox, s-fit adapter, beauty dish + grid, umbrella reflectors, HSS triggers, replacement tubes, carry case, boom arm and so on. The extra dosh for a Safari 2 is only a small increase on top of that lot. Yes, it's not all essential but I'm bound to end up buying it eventually so may as well factor it in now.

I went back to the original question - 'why buy studio lights?'. There are 3 main reasons:

Faster recycle times
More power
Bare bulb so work properly in larger modifiers.

On location 1 and 2 can be worked around to some degree with DoF and ISO. As for 3... I could try - and maybe fail - to get cleverer with speedlights and how I use the modifiers I have. Or I could blow £1400 on toys.

I'll be very interested to see which way you go!