Help with Agitation - Bromide Streaking Problem

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sidxms

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Hello,

I've recently noticed that I'm getting streak marks on the film due to inconsistent developing in the dark areas. I'm guessing the developer has to do more work here and isn't being recycled. Other areas of the same film are ok.

My agitation procedure is 4 times per minute which is the standard. Does anyone have any ideas for fixing the problem?

I've attached a sample

img240h.jpg
 
What developer is it you're using? And film stock?

4 times every minute as standard? I always used continuous agitation for the first minute then two inversions every minute - I thought ttat was considered the standard. Could be wrong though - twas a long time ago!
 
chuckles said:
What developer is it you're using? And film stock?

I always used continuous agitation for the first minute then two inversions every minute - I thought ttat was considered the standard. Could be wrong though - twas a long time ago!
Click to expand...

That is what I used to use without any issues when I was hand developing.

The processing of that image looks pretty poor to be frank, are you using stale developer? Are you mixing it up from powder? If so are you making sure that you have let it completely dissolve?

It looks to me like there was not enough developer in the tank, the agitations allow developer to move across the film and then the sprockets contine to drain over the remainder of the minute which causes the correct development to take place, the rest of the image looks underdeveloped.
 
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I'd look at the way you agitate. I used to use a 30 second interval between agitations.I preferred a simple invert and hold then reverse method.. I don't remember being troubled with streaks like this. I have seen similar results when using deep 15 litre tanks with multiple spirals when the agitation was a straight up and down action.

Can you confirm that the streaks are originating form the part of the film that is at the "top" when processing.
 
The banding does look to be on the same kind of spacing pitch as the sprocket holes on 35mm film, causing the draining effect Ed described if you've not enough dev in the tank. My Patterson tank requires a minimum of 300ml per spool of 35mm, 500ml for 120, which I stick with on one-shot B&W chemicals but when I'm processing colour (c41 or e6) where the chemicals are re-used I'll always make sure theres around 400ml and 600ml respectively in there - just to be sure.
 
Looks like you are agitating a bit too vigorously, causing the developer to rush past the film quicker where the sprocket holes are and causing slight over development compared to the rest of the film.

Have a look here where I've posted a well tried and tested method of agitation
Black and white film development

Works every time for me, just twist and turn very gently and slowly.
 
Cheers for the input guys

Could you post your agitation methods please?

The film is a TRix400 developed for 6mins at 20c in Ilfotech HC. The exposure is poor, I've not under-developed it. The res of the film is fine as I said, some areas (dark areas) have this streaking pattern.

I'm using 300ml developing solution in a pattern tank (perhaps a touch more so I cover the whole film)

Developer isn't really the use, its the agitation.

My current method as follows,

1 Agitation = turning the patterson upside down and back to normal slowly to prevent bubbling.

I do it 4 times per minute as I thought that is the standard

sid
 
My money's on not enough fluid... The fluid should cover the film from top to bottom when it's standing. Although if there's a reason why you want to keep using the same amount, I suspect continual agitation might work (to eliimate the streaks but might shorten the required development time).

Edit - was still typing when sidxms posted his reply above... Oops, sorry
 
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I've never used Ilfotech but with ID-11 or XTOL I used to agitate 1-2 turns every 30 seconds, just turn your tank really gently, to slow the flow of developer over the film and you should solve the problem.

(300ml per film is perfect btw)
 
Edtog said:
I've never used Ilfotech but with ID-11 or XTOL I used to agitate 1-2 turns every 30 seconds, just turn your tank really gently, to slow the flow of developer over the film and you should solve the problem.

(300ml per film is perfect btw)
Click to expand...

Ok cheers,

Do you agree that this is defo an agitation problem?
Nothing to do with temperature of the stop bath/fix or their concentrations?

Those two chemicals are reused from a communal pot so arent' garunteed unfortunately.

I've noticed the agitation problem makes long developing of 3200iso films a nightmare tbh :( and I've a few ordered

sid
 
Is that a section of your negative or the whole thing?
If you don't like agitation then try some stand developing :)
 
Only way to be sure is to shoot another roll and try and a different technique of agitation. (I had the same problem as this when I was a student.)

As long as your temp of dev, stop, fix, wash is within a few degrees (Developer must be at proper temp) then you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

If dev times are really long then you could either increase the developer temp to 24 or try a different developer which has shorter processing times.
 
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Hi Sid,

You have some fine advice here already but, a couple of things, if I may:

1. Agitate for the first 30 secs using the action that Edtog has described AND THEN give the base a good couple of thumps the free any air bubbles.

2. Read up on Tri-X 400 http://www.flickr.com/groups/trix_lovers/discuss/ and try D-76 or even better Rodinal i.e. D-76 = bullet proof and less grain (smooth) or Rodinal = endless variations and grain to whatever degree you wish.

I use Rodinal 1:50 20c 12/13 mins. agitate with centre (Paterson) rotator and then gentle inversions every 30 secs, AND THEN give the base a good couple of thumps the free any air bubbles, for the rest of the time. If you go at it with Rodinal i.e. shake, rattle & roll then expect to get some GRAIN, so gentle for me.

Hope this helps.
 
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