Help Please - Lighting Equipment Kit

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N1k0nBob

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Robert
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Hi All,

I am looking for some advice from you guys who know and have experience and any help is gratefully appreciated.

I am just about to splash out any buy some lighting equipment to give me great scope to create in my hobby, but even after researching into the subject I am still a little confused on what kit to get to meet my aims (once practiced).

I like to take portraits, indoor and outdoor, environmental portraits, commercial style (for fun not £), etc. Basically, where I need to light a subject from a person to a car, from small objects within an environmental portrait, to say a band or small group of people. I don't want to limit myself to a studio (which I don't have) but can use a large space if I want, courtesy of a mates disused store room (large space).

What I am confused about what combination of kit to get. My budget is pretty reasonable, but it is not wide enough to be getting one of everything.

I have been trying to answer, speedlites, or large flash heads with 200w, 300w, 400w, or 600w etc. Or if I should get say SB-900 and a 600w?

Can I get greater flexibility with say 2 x 300w (5 stop) large flash head and buy a good battery pack and then forget about a speedlite. After all a SB-900 is £320, whilst a 300w Flash head can been around the same price and lower but gives out much more power. 2 Speedlites get very expensive and limits my total flash power compared with 2 x 300w (or 200w, 600w etc).

I just don't know where to start putting this all together so, I am asking for you opinions on what type of set up would give me good flexibility and a wide rage to create lots of images for the a good price range.

Please note - I am NOT asking about specific Makes or Brand as different people will recommend their favs and it seems by other threads it can turn nasty. My budget will define what brand overall, once I have my kit list sorted, and it this list I am having a trouble with.

I really appreciate any advise you can give. Please ask me any question which would help you to give me that advise also.

Thanks
Rob
 
I personally would go speedlight for portability and at a later date add pack/head lights if you feel you need more power

A fairly common route is speedlights - speedlights and entry level battery flash - speedlights and profoto

I'm moving onto stage 2, stage 3 would be nice :p


The cheapest 400ws battery flash I know of that takes proper mods and is worth having is 410 for a single head and pack
 
david1701 said:
I personally would go speedlight for portability and at a later date add pack/head lights if you feel you need more power

A fairly common route is speedlights - speedlights and entry level battery flash - speedlights and profoto

I'm moving onto stage 2, stage 3 would be nice :p


The cheapest 400ws battery flash I know of that takes proper mods and is worth having is 410 for a single head and pack
Click to expand...

Hiya,

Thanks for your comments.

It is a hard decision at the mo. I can see the benefit for portable flash, i.e. speedlites, i.e no battery pack at £400, lighter in weight etc, but at £250-£300 new the cost really adds up if you get 3 or 4 of them (as I can't find anywhere that does kit deals with speelites) especially as they are lower in power.

But, then getting a battery pack adds cost to large flash heads, which I see most brands you can buy kits with discounted prices when buying multiple heads. But then you get more power which can be stopped down if needs be, but gives more creative options. But, does a say 400ws cause problems if you don't need all that power?

Rob
 
Have you looked at the Lencarta "Safari" range. Basically battery powered studio type lighting which will give you best of both worlds.

There's a few users on here who have them so somebody will pop up and give you more info.

Steve
 
Hiya Steve,

Thanks for your input, i'll have a look at those, and I can see your point. Definatly worth looking at.

But I don't want this thread to getting naming brands as I see a lot of threads start getting heated over which brand is best.

Matt
 
I quite like the idea of some of the kits out there as they come with all of the stands, and can have a softbox etc too. Which then cuts the problem out of deciding which stands to get separately.
 
But, then again, I can see the benefit of the speedlite (portable) flashes which can be used with a pc/hotshoe connected to say a pocket wizard.

The pc/hotshoe set up would increase options on the portable flashes as I wouldn't need the more expensive built in pc connectors flashes.

Choices, choices, decisions, decisions.
 
with packs you will share the output over however many heads you have hooked up

erm you might well have problems trying to work close in with wider apertures on a pack as they only go down to 1/8th or at most 1/16th while speedlights often go down to 1/128th

speedlights have zoom heads which almost make power when shooting outside because they can give a tighter beam than the studio heads unless you have a long throw reflector of some kind

its worth factoring in the cost of a 15 quid smart charger and a few sets of batteries at 4 quid each per speedlight (say 30 quid all in) as you do need them to give flexibility and with a lot of batteries you get loads more endurance from speedlights than you do battery flash


BUT, speedlight modifiers are often simple at best generally limited to small softboxes, umbrellas, grids snoots and flags

while an s fit head can take all sorts of modifiers
 
you need to work out how you value portability, from a peli 1510 and a pair of stands on a shoulder strap I can work all day with 2 bodies 3 lenses and 3 flashes. The only place I fall down is on sun killing power
 
david1701 said:
with packs you will share the output over however many heads you have hooked up

erm you might well have problems trying to work close in with wider apertures on a pack as they only go down to 1/8th or at most 1/16th while speedlights often go down to 1/128th

speedlights have zoom heads which almost make power when shooting outside because they can give a tighter beam than the studio heads unless you have a long throw reflector of some kind

its worth factoring in the cost of a 15 quid smart charger and a few sets of batteries at 4 quid each per speedlight (say 30 quid all in) as you do need them to give flexibility and with a lot of batteries you get loads more endurance from speedlights than you do battery flash


BUT, speedlight modifiers are often simple at best generally limited to small softboxes, umbrellas, grids snoots and flags

while an s fit head can take all sorts of modifiers
Click to expand...

So, what I think you are saying is:

Speedlite work better closer to the subject but are limited when it comes to the size of modifier with it. Ensuring enough AA batteries are available on outdoor shoots would keep the cost down from a full power battery pack. Better to use rechargeable AA's and keep them going.

But, when a large softbox/umbrealla is required then a more powerful head is needed which in general would be further away from the subject and offer a nice soft light.

If that is correct, it kind of puts an option to me to get 1 nice powerful head and a couple of speedlites. A small and larger softbox/umbrella and start to see what I can achieve with this more all round option maybe? Then build up from there?

Rob
 
david1701 said:
you need to work out how you value portability, from a peli 1510 and a pair of stands on a shoulder strap I can work all day with 2 bodies 3 lenses and 3 flashes. The only place I fall down is on sun killing power
Click to expand...

What do you recommend is needed to kill the sun, or kill the ambient light?
 
erm if you have spare thousands thats an option

depends on the ambient light iso 100 f16 will slightly underexpose the noonday sun over here which a 580ex will do if bare and close. to work in open shade or early evening less power is needed

to punch f16 through a dish at a few meters you need 600ws +


erm from my day to day kit I can work almost anywhere indoors or in open shade with a reasonable control of the light, but am limited to a fill pop outside
 
david1701 said:
erm if you have spare thousands thats an option
Click to expand...

Hah, Hah, yes this is very true. But, I am trying to clarify my various options to get the most for my money. The idea is to understand what can be achieved by each set up, and then, once I have costed them up I can then scale up or down depending on the total value, or get a 'better' (by perception) brand instead.

Rob
 
If you're just starting out you don't need softboxes and all sorts of fancy light modifiers. A cheap flash, either a new YongNuo or a secondhand Nikon Sb24/25/26, a lightstand, an umbrella adapter and an umbrella plus a set of cheap triggers - £100 tops.

Then, once you get the hang of a one light set up you can add another flash, a softbox etc
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If you're just starting out you don't need softboxes and all sorts of fancy light modifiers. A cheap flash, either a new YongNuo or a secondhand Nikon Sb24/25/26, a lightstand, an umbrella adapter and an umbrella plus a set of cheap triggers - £100 tops.

Then, once you get the hang of a one light set up you can add another flash, a softbox etc
Click to expand...

he's my dealer :p


but yeah graham has a point you dont have to spend buckets of money unless you want to
 
david1701 said:
he's my dealer :p


but yeah graham has a point you dont have to spend buckets of money unless you want to
Click to expand...

Yeap, you are both 100% correct. I am not going to be throwing money to buy a whole of kit I don't know how to use yet but I've already used some basic portable flashes and found a limitation to what I can do in terms of my ideas for images so I am just looking at options to prices and then scale appropriately (a balance) to my ability now and where I want to be in the future. I can always add to it later.

Rob
 
Hi Rob,

I am in a similar position as you. I have been looking to become more creative with my images and I am looking at lighting as one tool for doing so. I've been playing with angles, perspective, composition etc for a while and now I want to see what I can achieve with light

I own a Jessops 360AFD Portable Flash which seem ok. Ok, it's not your SB-900 because it doesn't have all the fancy functions but it seems to be able to do something.

What I plan to do is buy a stand, umbrella adapter and a white with shoot through option umbrella and see what I can achieve with this first. I don't want to use TTL so I will have to get some sort of radio transmitter/reciever set up to do it so I am looking into my options.

I know my creative ideas far exceed the ability of a small flash and umbrella but i believe that you need to explore the ability of your kit with your ability as a photographer. This may get me frustrated because I am not getting the results that I see in my mind, but, I feel I need to learn what a flash is and can do with an umbrella then softbox etc, with what size umbrella etc, before buying a 600ws flash head thing that you guys have all talked about on this thread.

I would guess I need to know what these battery powered studio lights, mobile or indoor can do before I splash out and get any.

I'd be interested to know what you decide and the result you get.

Matt
 
Basically there are 4 ways of doing this, each has both benefits and snags.

1. Cheap hotshoe flashes. The benefit being that they're cheap, you can buy 'no-name' brands or you can go even cheaper if you don't mind going round car boot sales... Everything will be manual but that isn't a bad thing. You'll need some way of firing them, which can be complicated/expensive/unreliable.

2. Expensive dedicated hotshoe flashes, such as the SB-900. Very clever, although you won't need all of their features, but incredibly expensive if you buy several of them.

3. Mains powered studio flash. The advantages are a powerful modelling lamp, a lot of actual power, very fast recycling and the ability to take a very wide range of light modifiers. The disadvantage is that you need mains power. Power packs are available but are limited, and provide relatively few flashes.

4. Battery powered studio flash. The advantages are power, portability and the ability to take the same wide range of light modifiers that the mains powered lights take. The better ones (600 Ws or above) have enough power to overwhelm the sun. The disadvantages are higher cost, slower recycling and no or low powered modelling lamps.

This thread may help you.

Only you can decide whether portability is the most important factor for you. If you decide that it is, then your choice falls between hotshoe flashes and battery powered studio flash. If you decide that the ability to use a wide range of light modifiers is the most important factor for you then you have to decide between mains powered and battery powered studio flash.

A lot of people underate the importance of power and the importance of light modifiers, they seem to think that cranking up the ISO makes power unimportant. It doesn't, unless you're only planning to produce small files. And some people seem to think that lighting is just about umbrellas and similar. It isn't. If you want to become creative with your lighting you'll want to use tools like beauty dishes, honeycombs, large softboxes, even spotlights - and they all require a lot more power than hotshoe flashes can provide. And some light modifiers only work really well with studio flashes, because (most) hotshoe flashes have fixed reflectors.

As for make or brand, people do often get very hung up on this. As far as studio flash is concerned, as long as you avoid the very cheapest lights you should get reasonably consistent colour temperature and power (obviously some are better than others but most should be OK. You should also avoid any lights that don't have removable reflectors (if the reflectors can't be removed then you can't get better results from them than from hotshoe flashes). And make sure that the lights you buy have either S-fit or Elinchrom fit. There is a wider range of good quality accessories at good prices available in S-fit. And finally, buy from a Company that is well established, just in case you need repairs in a few years time.
 
david1701 said:
I personally would go speedlight for portability and at a later date add pack/head lights if you feel you need more power

A fairly common route is speedlights - speedlights and entry level battery flash - speedlights and profoto
Click to expand...

Woop Woop For speedlights!

I +1 this.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Basically there are 4 ways of doing this, each has both benefits and snags.

This thread may help you.
Click to expand...

Hi Garry,

Thank you so much for you comments. There were really, really helpful and between your post and the link above it has brought a lot of what I've been trying to understand about lighting together.

I have narrowed down my choices a lot from my original confused list. I was fearful of buying to much when I didn't really need it, but have always felt that 1 or 2 hotshoes would limited me from what I wanted, but also the studio lights i.e. one's you tend to use indoors were too much for me at the moment.

I like the look of the portable flashes with power pack rather but, this is a non brand/make thread so I'll be posting in the specific thread I have seen for a question about this.

Bob
 
also to correct gary, there is nothing at all complicated or unreliable about firing hotshoe flashes, a simple cheap hotshoe flash trigger fires them just like a camera would, these were very unreliable several years ago (when the chinese were new) but are now dammed good
 
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