Help please from a newbie

Missy1981

Missy1981

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Sarah
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Hi everyone,

My name is Sarah and I am totally new to this forum. This is my first proper post.

After months of talking about it, I've recently purchased my first ever DSLR, a Canon 650d with an EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens. (It's the lens that came with the camera)

I bought the camera to mainly take some good quality photos of my 9 month old son. I've been doing as much research as I can about f stops, ISO, depth of field etc and I'll admit it's all very overwhelming but I'm really enjoying learning.

So apologies if this question sounds really stupid.

Basically I've been taking some pictures of my son in both portrait mode and also manually setting the camera to a shallow depth of field. The thing is even though the pictures are far better than my previous point and shoot camera, he is still not totally in focus.

Is this because my lens only goes down to f3.5 or is there another reason that I don't know about.

Please forgive me as I'm so new to all this and hope my question isn't really dumb!

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Sarah
 
Hhhiiii!!... I am also new to the subject, although I learnt that'll the shutter speed is below 1/60 sec is best to use a tripod to void camera shake which will cause blurring on yr pic even after u have focused... That any help? Lol :)
 
Welcome to Talk Photography Sarah

I'm not familiar with the 650D but presumably you acquire focus by pressing halfway on the shutter button. On any of the cameras I've used, a confirmation ' red square ' is displayed in the camera's viewfinder and depending on where you are focusing this should light up indicating that focus has been achieved. Makes sense?

In respect of dept of field, f/3.5 on the 18-55 is the narrowest you have anyway but you should consider that the DOF is very narrow at that setting. You may also be using a shutter speed that could be too low. What ISO are you on? You may need to increase the ISO so as to be able to use a faster shutter speed or alternatively use flash.

Keep those questions coming :)
 
*i learnt that "IF" the shutter speed*

... Is what I meant to write above... My bad...My phone thinks it knows what I want to write better than I do myself!,lol :)
 
pep316 said:
Hhhiiii!!... I am also new to the subject, although I learnt that'll the shutter speed is below 1/60 sec is best to use a tripod to void camera shake which will cause blurring on yr pic even after u have focused... That any help? Lol :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip :) I need to invest in a tripod at some point. I can see this hobby getting quite expensive ;-)

These were taken at a shutter speed of 1/80 though so hopefully shouldn't cause the blurring
 
Houston1863 said:
Welcome to Talk Photography Sarah

I'm not familiar with the 650D but presumably you acquire focus by pressing halfway on the shutter button. On any of the cameras I've used, a confirmation ' red square ' is displayed in the camera's viewfinder and depending on where you are focusing this should light up indicating that focus has been achieved. Makes sense?

In respect of dept of field, f/3.5 on the 18-55 is the narrowest you have anyway but you should consider that the DOF is very narrow at that setting. You may also be using a shutter speed that could be too low. What ISO are you on? You may need to increase the ISO so as to be able to use a faster shutter speed or alternatively use flash.

Keep those questions coming :)
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the welcome.

Yep, I press halfway on the shutter button to acquire focus and the red squares light up in the view finder on the subject I'm trying to focus on.

Sorry to sound ignorant but what do you mean when you say "Depth of field is very narrow at that setting" do you mean narrow at 3.5?

So if I use a faster shutter speed and up the ISO this could reduce the blurring? I assume as my subject is moving using a faster shutter speed will help as it's so difficult to get a 9 month old to sit still lol.

I've seen lenses that are 50mm f/1.4 what sort of photography would these be used for?

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated
 
If by "totally not in focus" means say his nose in in focus but his ears are not then the f3.5 is too low and giving too shallow a depth of field.
Try a shot at f10 to see the difference and check the overall focusing.
 
ernesto said:
If by "totally not in focus" means say his nose in in focus but his ears are not then the f3.5 is too low and giving too shallow a depth of field.
Try a shot at f10 to see the difference and check the overall focusing.
Click to expand...

Ah thanks, this makes sense. His face is in focus but the outline of his face and body are a bit blurred.
 
Hi Sarah.

Pop some photos up if you can, it makes it easier to see if / what the problem maybe. ..

A good bit of advice I was given years ago, when I was starting off, was put the camera in one of the basic zones for the specific photo your taking - in your case "portrait" mode, then fire off a couple of shots.
Now look at these photos and the shooting information that's recorded - if you then swap to the creative zones (Tv, Av etc) and replicate these settings, now you can start to modify / alter these and see what your shots turn out like.

Hope this is of some help ...
 
Missy1981 said:
Hey thanks for the welcome.

Yep, I press halfway on the shutter button to acquire focus and the red squares light up in the view finder on the subject I'm trying to focus on.

Sorry to sound ignorant but what do you mean when you say "Depth of field is very narrow at that setting" do you mean narrow at 3.5?
Click to expand...

While I do not have recent experience of a 18-55, what happens with DOF is that the more you open up a lens, the shallower the DOF becomes. Thus as suggested by the previous posters, f/3.5 would have shallower DOF than f/8.0 for instance.


So if I use a faster shutter speed and up the ISO this could reduce the blurring? I assume as my subject is moving using a faster shutter speed will help as it's so difficult to get a 9 month old to sit still lol.
Click to expand...


A higher ISO at a given aperture setting will boost the shutter speed. Exposure is controlled by these three elements, so altering one changes the others. If therefore you have a fixed aperture, then you can change the ISO to lower or slow your shutter speed.


I've seen lenses that are 50mm f/1.4 what sort of photography would these be used for?

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated
Click to expand...


A 50mm lens used to be a standard fixture on old film cameras. It offers a field of view approximating to that of one's own vision. You can use a 50mm for portraits for instance and a low f stop like 1.4 will allow you to throw the background more out of focus ( called bokeh ). Try this out shooting at an immovable object and then change the aperture as you go along. You'll find that at f/1.4 the background ( and this depends on how far you are from the subject as well ) will be more out of focus ( OOF ) than for eg at f/16. The closer you are to a subject, you will throw more of the background out of focus if you use a low f stop. As you move further away from your subject even at f/1.4, more of the background will come into focus.


Happy to help and do feel free to ask further. Members here are always keen to assist. :)
 
Hello Sarah,

As Andy has said put some of your photos on the forum here and it will help folks to be able to advise you.

From what you have said you have obviously read something about shutter speed, aperture and ISO, which are the three things that every photographer has to understand. Can I suggest the tutorials on this site?

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

But more than anything else, don't be too upset that your early photos are not as you thought they would be. A famous photographer once said, "your first 10,000 photos are your worst".

Just keep taking photos, fortunately with digital cameras every photo is virtually free. Look at the EXIF data to see why some of the exposures worked, and some did not.

But more than anything else just enjoy yourself taking photos.

Dave
 
As a fellow 650d owner I am unsure why your images are blurred other than too slow a shutter speed or the af setting is out.

My focus needed adjusting from day one as it was a fraction out and my portrait images looked oof. In the handbook it explains how to calibrate the 9 af points which made a massive difference to my images and my confidence :)
 
Raise your aperture to say f/8 and try the shot again. Beware that less light will be entering the camera, so you may need to raise your ISO to enable a shutter speed fast enough to prevent blur.

If as you say, parts of the image are in focus, but it gradually goes of of focus, this is called depth of field. The smaller the aperture number, the smaller this depth of field is.

Depth of field is simply the width of the area in focus. There will be a infinitely long horizontal strip parallel to the cameras sensor. Depending on your aperture, this width will vary from a few mm, to infinity.
 
andyred said:
Hi Sarah.

Pop some photos up if you can, it makes it easier to see if / what the problem maybe. ..

A good bit of advice I was given years ago, when I was starting off, was put the camera in one of the basic zones for the specific photo your taking - in your case "portrait" mode, then fire off a couple of shots.
Now look at these photos and the shooting information that's recorded - if you then swap to the creative zones (Tv, Av etc) and replicate these settings, now you can start to modify / alter these and see what your shots turn out like.

Hope this is of some help ...
Click to expand...

Thank you! I will certainly give this a try.

I will definitely put some pics up soon. I haven't got round to putting them on my PC yet (never any time with a baby in the house)
 
Houston1863 said:
While I do not have recent experience of a 18-55, what happens with DOF is that the more you open up a lens, the shallower the DOF becomes. Thus as suggested by the previous posters, f/3.5 would have shallower DOF than f/8.0 for instance.

A 50mm lens used to be a standard fixture on old film cameras. It offers a field of view approximating to that of one's own vision. You can use a 50mm for portraits for instance and a low f stop like 1.4 will allow you to throw the background more out of focus ( called bokeh ). Try this out shooting at an immovable object and then change the aperture as you go along. You'll find that at f/1.4 the background ( and this depends on how far you are from the subject as well ) will be more out of focus ( OOF ) than for eg at f/16. The closer you are to a subject, you will throw more of the background out of focus if you use a low f stop. As you move further away from your subject even at f/1.4, more of the background will come into focus.

Happy to help and do feel free to ask further. Members here are always keen to assist. :)
Click to expand...

Sounds great. I like the idea of the background being really blurred as with my standard lens, although the background is a little blurred, I would prefer it to be more so.

Thank you so much. Everyone on here has been very friendly and welcoming :-)
 
Last edited:
Tringa said:
Hello Sarah,

As Andy has said put some of your photos on the forum here and it will help folks to be able to advise you.

From what you have said you have obviously read something about shutter speed, aperture and ISO, which are the three things that every photographer has to understand. Can I suggest the tutorials on this site?

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

But more than anything else, don't be too upset that your early photos are not as you thought they would be. A famous photographer once said, "your first 10,000 photos are your worst".

Just keep taking photos, fortunately with digital cameras every photo is virtually free. Look at the EXIF data to see why some of the exposures worked, and some did not.

But more than anything else just enjoy yourself taking photos.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I will definitely put some pics up when I've loaded them on to my PC.

I have indeed done a bit of reading, but there is so much to learn. Like you have said I guess practise makes perfect. I've got a long way to go before I reach 10,000 photos. Haha.

Thanks for the link. I will definitely check that out.
 
Oscellaris said:
As a fellow 650d owner I am unsure why your images are blurred other than too slow a shutter speed or the af setting is out.

My focus needed adjusting from day one as it was a fraction out and my portrait images looked oof. In the handbook it explains how to calibrate the 9 af points which made a massive difference to my images and my confidence :)
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the tip. Is this the little dial at the top right of the viewfinder?
 
TCR4x4 said:
Raise your aperture to say f/8 and try the shot again. Beware that less light will be entering the camera, so you may need to raise your ISO to enable a shutter speed fast enough to prevent blur.

If as you say, parts of the image are in focus, but it gradually goes of of focus, this is called depth of field. The smaller the aperture number, the smaller this depth of field is.

Depth of field is simply the width of the area in focus. There will be a infinitely long horizontal strip parallel to the cameras sensor. Depending on your aperture, this width will vary from a few mm, to infinity.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This makes sense. Sounds like I had it set too low as features were in focus, just not the outlines of the head.
 
Hi Sarah, You probably need to sit and have a play with the settings so you understand what happens when you change one. I started by taking pictures of the dog and changing aperture, speed and iso one at a time and seeing the results.
A few things to take note of are, if your toddler is moving you'll need more speed.
If it's indoors or dim, you'll need more light.
A tripod will hold the camera steady and stop camera shake, but if the subject is moving you'll still need to up the speed.
Increase the iso to achieve the balance between speed/aperture.
With your lens indoors i'd try iso 800 f 5.6 and see if you can keep the speed above 1/80. If the speed drops lower adjust one of the other settings. The iso can be lowered the better the light is.
 
Missy1981 said:
Hi everyone,

My name is Sarah and I am totally new to this forum. This is my first proper post.

After months of talking about it, I've recently purchased my first ever DSLR, a Canon 650d with an EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens. (It's the lens that came with the camera)

I bought the camera to mainly take some good quality photos of my 9 month old son. I've been doing as much research as I can about f stops, ISO, depth of field etc and I'll admit it's all very overwhelming but I'm really enjoying learning.

So apologies if this question sounds really stupid.

Basically I've been taking some pictures of my son in both portrait mode and also manually setting the camera to a shallow depth of field. The thing is even though the pictures are far better than my previous point and shoot camera, he is still not totally in focus.

Is this because my lens only goes down to f3.5 or is there another reason that I don't know about.

Please forgive me as I'm so new to all this and hope my question isn't really dumb!

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Sarah
Click to expand...

Hi Sarah forgive me, I did not read all the post (ADD) lol. I truly think that without a picture to look at all this speculation is only going to confuse you. One picture with the setting of your camera and we could tell you what the problem is. Here are some common beginner problems and are probably the most likely causes.

Depth of field, easy to check just stop the lens down and see if the problem goes away. Higher numbers are what you are looking for.

Focus, the 650 should be like my 600, do not let the camera pick the focus point because it does not know what that point should be. You pick the focus point. (Those red dots) haha

Shutter shake caused by to slow of a shutter. Again, easy to check just raise the shutter above 60. For this you may need to set your iso to auto although I would only do this for test purposes and change it back when done.

Or you could just post a pic or even a link to the a pic and we will be glad to help.
 
Hi Sarah,

I first used that lens on my 400d. Although very cheap it's not a bad little lens.

My first thought is that if you're shooting a F3.5 you've probably "zoomed out" to the wide angle end of the lens. This will usually result in unflattering protraits due to the distortion at wide angles.

Try to shoot at the 55mm end for portraits.

I also found that this lens performed poorly at large apertures, I tried to use it between F8 - F11 to get the best results.

Finaly, just keep taking photos, loads of them. Try not to get too caught up in your shots needing to be technically perfect. You're tyring to catch a moment, and if you look closely at some of the most iconic photos from the most acclaimed photographers you can find all sorts of technical imperfections.

Darren
 
Surprised nobody has mentioned the shutter speed. If you're inside in a darker room or even outside in our dull english weather, 1/80th will be too low I'd have thought. Upping the ISO would help with that meaning you get a faster shutter speed (obviously you'll get more noise though).
 
htid said:
Surprised nobody has mentioned the shutter speed. If you're inside in a darker room or even outside in our dull english weather, 1/80th will be too low I'd have thought. Upping the ISO would help with that meaning you get a faster shutter speed (obviously you'll get more noise though).
Click to expand...

Look two post above yours and you will see it was mentioned....
 
minibloke said:
Hi Sarah, You probably need to sit and have a play with the settings so you understand what happens when you change one. I started by taking pictures of the dog and changing aperture, speed and iso one at a time and seeing the results.
A few things to take note of are, if your toddler is moving you'll need more speed.
If it's indoors or dim, you'll need more light.
A tripod will hold the camera steady and stop camera shake, but if the subject is moving you'll still need to up the speed.
Increase the iso to achieve the balance between speed/aperture.
With your lens indoors i'd try iso 800 f 5.6 and see if you can keep the speed above 1/80. If the speed drops lower adjust one of the other settings. The iso can be lowered the better the light is.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the tips. I will try out your suggestion re ISO 800 f5.6 and see how I get on. I've got 2 dogs also so may practise on them as they don't move half as much as my son. They're pretty lazy lol

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated
 
shaylou said:
Hi Sarah forgive me, I did not read all the post (ADD) lol. I truly think that without a picture to look at all this speculation is only going to confuse you. One picture with the setting of your camera and we could tell you what the problem is. Here are some common beginner problems and are probably the most likely causes.

Depth of field, easy to check just stop the lens down and see if the problem goes away. Higher numbers are what you are looking for.

Focus, the 650 should be like my 600, do not let the camera pick the focus point because it does not know what that point should be. You pick the focus point. (Those red dots) haha

Shutter shake caused by to slow of a shutter. Again, easy to check just raise the shutter above 60. For this you may need to set your iso to auto although I would only do this for test purposes and change it back when done.

Or you could just post a pic or even a link to the a pic and we will be glad to help.
Click to expand...

Your right, I need to post some pictures up to show people. As soon as I get them on the PC I will. Just so hard to find time running after a 9 month old lol

Thanks for the newbie tips. I really like how friendly and helpful everyone is in here despite me asking such basic questions. When you say don't let the camera pick the focus point, do you mean take it off AF?

Re shutter speed. Someone here said that anything slower than 1/60 I'd need a tripod so this makes sense too, thanks :-)
 
D4rr3n said:
Hi Sarah,

I first used that lens on my 400d. Although very cheap it's not a bad little lens.

My first thought is that if you're shooting a F3.5 you've probably "zoomed out" to the wide angle end of the lens. This will usually result in unflattering protraits due to the distortion at wide angles.

Try to shoot at the 55mm end for portraits.

I also found that this lens performed poorly at large apertures, I tried to use it between F8 - F11 to get the best results.

Finaly, just keep taking photos, loads of them. Try not to get too caught up in your shots needing to be technically perfect. You're tyring to catch a moment, and if you look closely at some of the most iconic photos from the most acclaimed photographers you can find all sorts of technical imperfections.

Darren
Click to expand...

Yeah it doesn't seem like a bad lens. Great for me as a beginner. Will prob get my head round everything and continue taking lots of practise shots before I think about adding to my collection.

Thanks for the 55mm tip with my lens. Will make sure I do this. My brother in law said 100mm was best for portraits. Is this the case?

Good point. For now I'm just happy trying to understand and enjoy my new bit of kit. I already love the vast improvement on the quality of my photos from my trusty little point and shoot. Hopefully one day I'll have more confidence in what I'm doing. I've already learnt so much from this forum and I've only been on it a week! :-)
 
htid said:
Surprised nobody has mentioned the shutter speed. If you're inside in a darker room or even outside in our dull english weather, 1/80th will be too low I'd have thought. Upping the ISO would help with that meaning you get a faster shutter speed (obviously you'll get more noise though).
Click to expand...

Thank you. I will definitely bear this is mind :-)
 
Missy1981 said:
Your right, I need to post some pictures up to show people. As soon as I get them on the PC I will. Just so hard to find time running after a 9 month old lol

Thanks for the newbie tips. I really like how friendly and helpful everyone is in here despite me asking such basic questions. When you say don't let the camera pick the focus point, do you mean take it off AF?

Re shutter speed. Someone here said that anything slower than 1/60 I'd need a tripod so this makes sense too, thanks :-)
Click to expand...

Here is a link to give you an idea of focus points and how they work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojuq-IJMs_A

I got this info from the forum along with about everything else I know up to this point. Do not worry about posting "stupid questions" because know one here is interested in judging, only helping.

on another note, tripods are great I shoot more with one than without but they will not do much good if your subject is moving. Sounds like that may be the case.

here are some links you may find useful.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

http://freephotocourse.com/index.html

http://www.homephotog.com/tutorials/aperture.shtml

http://www.photographyjam.com/articles/29/camera-basics-shutter-speed-aperture-and-iso

i have a bunch more, just let me know if you want me to send them to you.

have fun with the little one....:thumbs:
 
Basics you probably already know but I will say them anyway. In easier sense.

Lower the f stop number. (Some lenses go down to 1.2, 1.4, 1.8). Others, like yours only 3.5 at 18mm or 5.6 at 55mm. (Something like that anyway). Anyway,

Lower the f/stop number = shallower depth of field. (I will explain using the 50mm prime lens as it goes down to 1.8). You have 3 glasses, staggered behind eachother. If the f/stop is as 1.8. The one you focus on will be in focus, the other 2 out of focus. Increase the number, f/5. 2 or maybe even the 3 will be focused. And so on.

Lower the f/stop number. The more light that is let in. INcrease the f stop (f/11). Less light is let into the lens.

Shutter speeds work kinda the same. 1/4 shutter speed will let in more light than 1/100.

ISO - measured sensitivity to light. Kinda the digital side of things for brightness. Sunny day, ISO 100 is all you need. Dark rooms, you would need a f/stop of 1.8 (no flash), and ISO prob at 1600. When you ISO is at 1600 you get noise. Grainy bits over your photos.


So set it to manual, it's easy haha. Like I say you prob know this anyway, but i tried to put it in simpler terms.
 
ant1 said:
Basics you probably already know but I will say them anyway. In easier sense.

Lower the f stop number. (Some lenses go down to 1.2, 1.4, 1.8). Others, like yours only 3.5 at 18mm or 5.6 at 55mm. (Something like that anyway). Anyway,

Lower the f/stop number = shallower depth of field. (I will explain using the 50mm prime lens as it goes down to 1.8). You have 3 glasses, staggered behind eachother. If the f/stop is as 1.8. The one you focus on will be in focus, the other 2 out of focus. Increase the number, f/5. 2 or maybe even the 3 will be focused. And so on.

Lower the f/stop number. The more light that is let in. INcrease the f stop (f/11). Less light is let into the lens.

Shutter speeds work kinda the same. 1/4 shutter speed will let in more light than 1/100.

ISO - measured sensitivity to light. Kinda the digital side of things for brightness. Sunny day, ISO 100 is all you need. Dark rooms, you would need a f/stop of 1.8 (no flash), and ISO prob at 1600. When you ISO is at 1600 you get noise. Grainy bits over your photos.

So set it to manual, it's easy haha. Like I say you prob know this anyway, but i tried to put it in simpler terms.
Click to expand...

What about focal length? There is no mention of one of the most relevant factors to depth of field....
 
Just saying the basics that helped me out.
 
Haha, I know there is so much more to be said, and so much more detail to go into. But keeping it simple that way helped me so thought I would share it for her haha.

No problem shaylou ;)
 
Missy1981 said:
Hey, thanks for the tip. Is this the little dial at the top right of the viewfinder?
Click to expand...

It's in the manual and should be the first thing you check if things appear oof as mine were.

If they are fine then move onto the shutter speeds etc etc etc until you are happy with the results.
 
Hi Sarah, from one noob to another !!

I was playing around with 2 new lenses I got the other day (I'm on the M4/3 systems, so not the same lenses as yours, but the principle is the same on depth of Field).

Take a look at this set on my Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/81373628@N06/sets/72157631752112593/

Although it's not the most inspiring of subject, it does show the effect of Aperture on DoF as you move from wide open to the smallest aperture (largest f/stop number).

On the Oly 45mm lens you can clearly see the fence coming into focus, and somewhat the foreground; on the Panny 20mm, I was too far from the target object really to show the same as the Oly shots, but can see more here of the foreground tarpaulin & wood coming into focus; but all the time, the garden hand fork is always in focus.

HTH.


Les.
 
Last edited:
shaylou said:
Here is a link to give you an idea of focus points and how they work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojuq-IJMs_A

I got this info from the forum along with about everything else I know up to this point. Do not worry about posting "stupid questions" because know one here is interested in judging, only helping.

on another note, tripods are great I shoot more with one than without but they will not do much good if your subject is moving. Sounds like that may be the case.

here are some links you may find useful.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

http://freephotocourse.com/index.html

http://www.homephotog.com/tutorials/aperture.shtml

http://www.photographyjam.com/articles/29/camera-basics-shutter-speed-aperture-and-iso

i have a bunch more, just let me know if you want me to send them to you.

have fun with the little one....:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Wow thanks for all the links. These are very helpful. I'm learning so much from being on here!

I need to purchase a tripod ASAP. Can you recommend a good one for my 650d? There are so many to choose from.
 
ant1 said:
Basics you probably already know but I will say them anyway. In easier sense.

Lower the f stop number. (Some lenses go down to 1.2, 1.4, 1.8). Others, like yours only 3.5 at 18mm or 5.6 at 55mm. (Something like that anyway). Anyway,

Lower the f/stop number = shallower depth of field. (I will explain using the 50mm prime lens as it goes down to 1.8). You have 3 glasses, staggered behind eachother. If the f/stop is as 1.8. The one you focus on will be in focus, the other 2 out of focus. Increase the number, f/5. 2 or maybe even the 3 will be focused. And so on.

Lower the f/stop number. The more light that is let in. INcrease the f stop (f/11). Less light is let into the lens.

Shutter speeds work kinda the same. 1/4 shutter speed will let in more light than 1/100.

ISO - measured sensitivity to light. Kinda the digital side of things for brightness. Sunny day, ISO 100 is all you need. Dark rooms, you would need a f/stop of 1.8 (no flash), and ISO prob at 1600. When you ISO is at 1600 you get noise. Grainy bits over your photos.

So set it to manual, it's easy haha. Like I say you prob know this anyway, but i tried to put it in simpler terms.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. It's very helpful and makes sense. Corresponds with what I've been reading up on.
 
ant1 said:
Haha, I know there is so much more to be said, and so much more detail to go into. But keeping it simple that way helped me so thought I would share it for her haha.

No problem shaylou ;)
Click to expand...

I agree, simple is good. Thank you
 
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