Help me grow some cojones

[Tobes]

Yep I had to lookup how to spell it

OK so I'm starting to get very annoyed with myself recently. I bought a nice camera thinking I could go places and really get stuck in and take some nice shots. But that's not happening.

I am really interesting in music photography. I love going to see my friends play at bars and clubs and recently I have been taking my camera. I'm no psychiatrist but I guess it's because I am and think of myself as a [SIZE=-1]amateur. So I don't get as close to the band as I should. The kit lens isn't good for low light and then I am messing around with the settings. I panic and then end up giving up.

I don't know why I have a problem with taking photos in public. If I saw someone in the street taking photos I wouldn't give them a second thought. Yet if I am that person in the street for some reason all I can think about is things like "am I in anyone's way?", "is someone going to come up to me?", "do I look like a idiot?".

The confidence problem isn't just in photography. It effects pretty much everything. Phoning people, asking about jobs, talking to strangers etc. But I thought I would ask here as it's photography related.

So has anyone had any stupid problems like this? Any advice?

Thanks,
Tobes
[/SIZE]

 

[wez130]

Why don't you go out shooting with a friend as that really helps to ease nerves, i'm normally a shy shooter tbh but when i went to Whitby witha few guys from this very forum i think i probably took more shots than any of them - i even got quite daring too, taking pics of a couple of people feeding a pigeon etc, if i'd have been alone i would hae thought, naaa, i can't be bothered.

 

[mobilevirgin]

Yeah - you've thrown yourself into the deep end here. I'll come back to gigs later. But bear with me for a moment. You mention street photography and its a good example. Its extremely difficult. I can't do it - or at least I think I can't - I don't have the cojones to try. I've been to a few events in Liverpool (the 800th parade, the Halloween parade, for example) where I have taken photos of random people, but they expect to be photographed. That was difficult and I had to have a couple of chats with myself to make me stay and carry on. I was pleased I did and its getting easier to do that sort of stuff.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself to perform in a difficult arena, or in one with which you don't feel particularly comfortable. Photography is supposed to be fun, after all (well for most of us - there will be exceptions).

Try taking yourself out on your own to a quietish location and take pics of what you see. Animals, landscapes, lighthouses, fences, post boxes, whatever. Get to know your camera. Get to know what you're good at and enjoy taking photos of.

Then as your confidence grows, maybe push yourself a bit more. Its always good to get out of a comfort zone, but what you don't want is pain. If you're attracted by street photography, try and find a local event - a fair or something - where people will not be surprised to see cameras recording things.

As for gigs - they're bloody difficult. And you're right the kit lens isn't great in low light. Maybe try and get your mates in bands to pose for some publicity shots instead - outdoors and in good light.

Don't get disheartened that your gig pics aren't up to much - its probably true, but its more likely to be a limitation with the kit and difficult circumstances. Maybe try and get shots during the sound check when the light is likely to be more consistent.

HTH

and have fun.

 

[dakid]

Some unusual advice here...

To get confidence, imagine you're pretending to be someone with confidence. You don't have to be yourself, who's a shy person and doesn't find it easy to do this sort of thing. Pretend to be someone who's confident ... who doesn't worry about what people say or think. The more you pretend to be this person, the more that's who you'll become.

Sounds simplistic, but if you really try it, it's quite surprising how well it works. Did for me

 

[InaGlo]

I think if youre lacking confidence generally, you need to keep aware of when you can feel that side of your personality taking over, and so you need to keep on top of it, and 'push yourself' into doing little things before those little things become very big things.
On the photographic side, I would suggest attending an event where you know there will be photography expected by the crowd, then in your mind you will know that no-one really will be taking any notice of you.

When I went to Venice masquerade last year, the place was crawling with ameteur & professional togs alike, I winced for the first few shots but soon got into stopping people and asking to take their pic, as I knew it was almost expected.
I came back a lot more confident about shooting in public than when I went!

 

[CT]

There's certainly a confidence problem here, but I think gathering from the tone of your post, there's also a bit of putting the cart before the horse too.

The basic principles of photography are actually pretty simple, but they need to be thoroughly learned, or you're only going to have the sketchiest idea of what you're doing a lot of the time. There are some excellent books out there on photography at all levels, but a book on basic photography and basic exposure principles will be a far better investment in the early stages than the latest bit of gear.

If you can't look at yourself in the mirror and say "I'm a photographer" and believe it, you can't expect anyone else to buy it either. Getting out there in public knowing what you're doing is the best bit of help you can give yourself. Sure, it can be a bit nerve wracking in the early stages, but not really knowing what you're at doesn't help.

EDIT.

Sorry, I meant to say that nice new camera is nothing to do with it at all.

 

[Tobes]

Why don't you go out shooting with a friend as that really helps to ease nerves

Sadly none of my friends are interested in photography. Also most are now working or at uni... but that's a whole different part of my life lol.

Try taking yourself out on your own to a quietish location and take pics of what you see. Animals, landscapes, lighthouses, fences, post boxes, whatever. Get to know your camera. Get to know what you're good at and enjoy taking photos of.

This is what I intend to do this weekend. I'm going to go out to a small village and just try to be a bit more creative in my shots.

To get confidence, imagine you're pretending to be someone with confidence. You don't have to be yourself, who's a shy person and doesn't find it easy to do this sort of thing. Pretend to be someone who's confident ... who doesn't worry about what people say or think.

I can see where you are coming from. It sounds simple but it's pretty hard to try and be someone you're not. Even though you're not really changing your personality.

On the photographic side, I would suggest attending an event where you know there will be photography expected by the crowd, then in your mind you will know that no-one really will be taking any notice of you.

That sounds good. I could mingle with other photographers and use dakids idea of being someone with confidence. For all other people know I could be an amazing photographer!

If you can't look at yourself in the mirror and say "I'm a photographer" and believe it, you can't expect anyone else to buy it either.

The only problem I have with this is I suppose I feel that I cant think of myself as a photographer until I produce some work. It's like putting on a chef's hat and saying I'm a chef. Until a cook something I'm just in fancy dress.

Sorry, I meant to say that nice new camera is nothing to do with it at all.

I should of said "first" camera. I have never really experimented with taking photos before this.

This has all been great help from all of you. Every word has been taken on board. I suppose it's not down to me to make it happen.

 

[mobilevirgin]

For all other people know I could be an amazing photographer!

Bingo - you're right on the money there. I took some photos of the Liverpool 800 fireworks. Set up my tripod in the middle of the road, asked a couple of people to move (politely). They all did as I asked. One woman asked me which paper I worked for (I don't). Result. They have no idea. All they see is me looking like I know what I'm doing.

 

[Yv]

For me it was street photography...now almost totally conquered...take Glo's advice - I did! I went to the diwali event in trafalgar square - every man and his dog had a camera, so I didnt feel nearly so self conscious pointing mine at people. It really does work! With some encouragement from a forum member here, I got braver and better - and so can you, you just need to take the first wobbly steps, after that it all gets a bit easier, I promise

Also, keep an eye on the meeting places section here for meets you can get to, being around a few friendly people, and following their lead is wonderfully inspiring and liberating. I have done several TP meets [2 more planned in next few weeks] and they are great for both getting some serious togging in, and making new friends that share a common interest.

 

[blinkerz]

forcing yourself into Street photography up close and personal, after a while the fear will go and all you will remember is the fun you had. The main part with dealing with people is how you approach the situation, if your nervous you will communicate that through your actions which in turn makes them feel uneasy. How you are on the inside is projected onto others.. we live in a world of perception over substance so take advantage of this

 

[dazzajl]

If it helps you to feel just how normal this is, here's a little insight into the world of a working snapper.

I shoot pretty much all day most days, sometimes that's shooting people and sometimes not. There are seldom two shoots the same and the variety is staggering.

There is one thing that just about every job has in common though. I get what is probably best described as stage fright. It used to bother me and I'd wonder when I was going to get past it. Well it never happened so now I use it to my advantage. It allows me to play whatever part best suits the job and the client at the time and it serves to keep me sharp and fresh each and every time out.

Nerves can be good, just don't let them stand in your way.

 

[CT]

What Daz said! Some of the early weddings I did, especially the really big ones were a real bottle tester for me, and I used to go in with a feeling of panic just about kept under control.

You never really get totally over that or should - those butterflies are good -you just need to channel them.

Approaching a job totally laid back and full of confidence is far more dangerous, and usually leads to some self recrimination afterwards.

So I heard.

 

[pxl8]

I'll echo what CT said. With weddings I'll have vivid dreams the week before of kit breaking right in the middle of taking a shot - one time I dreamt my 17-40L literally fell apart in my hands whilst taking a shot. But come the day it all goes away and I just concentrate on the shots, the universe doesn't extend beyond the viewfinder. I know that all the worry beforehand is just my mind running through a mental checklist, making sure everything will be okay on the day.

I'm shooting a charity gig this Saturday, small venue with a few different bands playing, it's a bit far but if you're up for it you're welcome to come along and shoot alongside me and borrow a fast prime as well

 

[kyle]

I'm exactly the same, my ex says I'm silly for it. Sometimes even when I'm out in the countryside I get really nervous and ask myself all sorts of questions - should I be here etc, what will those people think...

It's all a mindset, and one I need to get over too!

 

[Ugs]

Some unusual advice here...

To get confidence, imagine you're pretending to be someone with confidence. You don't have to be yourself, who's a shy person and doesn't find it easy to do this sort of thing. Pretend to be someone who's confident ... who doesn't worry about what people say or think. The more you pretend to be this person, the more that's who you'll become.

Sounds simplistic, but if you really try it, it's quite surprising how well it works. Did for me

That is spot on how I do it I am usually rather quiet and shy but once I strap my camera to my hand for street photography I start putting on an act.... I become a different person - heck I have even convinced my self and started small talk with complete strangers! I find it so enjoyable I have even started doing it without the camera as a "crutch".

Just do it. Very few people notice you anyway - they are so wrapped up in what they are doing and where they are going. If they do notice then a smile and a small reassuring gesture usually puts them at ease.

Its Fun! and can be very rewarding.

 

[Chuckurbarla]

Pretending you're someone else is a great idea. Wear a ridiculously bright jacket and hat, make yourself so obvious that you look like a nutter, no-one will come near you I guarantee it. It helps to talk to yourself as well, walk around muttering about f stops, fields of view, vertical uprights etc etc. And get in the way, people will only say "excuse me" or just push past. If someone objects to it enough they will ask you move and that might give you another opportunity for a photograph....."mind if I take your photograph before I do move?"

I used to be the same but I started thinking of myself as a tourist. Everybody takes pictures on holiday and nobody talks to them when they're doing it. Then I started saying "thank you" to the people I 'accidentally' got in the shot and it all progressed from there.

Have a good day in the village.

Chris

 

[Ugs]

Chuckurbarla: Yep - I like hats anyway and have a selection for all weathers. For street photography I do wear a slightly unusual wide brim Australian type one adorned with British Heart Foundation badges around the band. It is noticable but I have always found that the public tend to leave "odd" looking people alone

 

[barsbyart]

OK, you've received some very good advice already. Now for something you probably don't want to hear...

I have a similar problem; I don't worry about what other people might think of me but I do worry about what they might do - I'm talking about street crime! Whether fishing or photographing in public-frequented places I am at a disadvantage; I have lots of gear that is (or looks to the average perp/twerp) expensive and if I have anything snatched I can't abandon the rest of it to give chase. You do make yourself more of a target - especially if you shoot at night as I often do BUT crime is only a possibility not a certainty; you should be aware but not intimidated by the possibility.

Know the risks of your location. Keep gear to an absolute minimum. Don't spread your gear out. Don't get so engrossed that you're not aware of others (this one difficult!)
If approached don't panic, remain civil and exude confidence as if the thought of anyone trying to rob you was faintly ludicrous. I have diffused some potentially problematic situations (usually around pub chucking-out time) by making first contact (a nod and a polite "evening, lads") just to let them know I was fully aware of their presence and then reach for flask and wait for them to move on. Don't get drawn into any conversations. So far this has worked for me.

Obviously, taking a companion would be best but not always possible.

In daylight and on crowded streets it shouldn't be as big a (potential) problem.

 

[CT]

Some good advice there from barsbyart - always be mindful that with expensive looking gear you can become a target for the pond life if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.

With regard to street togging generally, it's a long time since I did any, but I always found that an open frendly approach helps enormously - be chatty and smile - looking furtive or uncomfortable makes you look suspicious straight away.

Sooner or later, regardless of your approach, you will meet someone who strongly objects - it's inevitable. Keep smiling but don't push it - let it go and try not to let it phase you.

 

[andrewc]

Confidence is a difficult thing to master, however, dealing with strangers is often easier than dealing with people you know well.

Stage fright affects many people, many of the great performers suffer from stage fright, however its not a bad thing. You just need to gain enough confidence to overcome nerves.

Join an Amdram society - does wonders for overcoming nerves, and no-one really cares too much!

 

[Hooky]

Hi Tobes, I live just down the road from you at Porthtowan.

I can empathise with your confidence issues as I used to be plagued by negative thoughts regarding my ability as a tog and what others might think of me. I think that the advice offered by others is good and may be helpful to you. I am also on a steep learning curve with digital, however I used to shoot quite a lot on film.

The best advice I can give, is to be yourself and to start taking pictures of anything!! You may find, as I did, that once you become more familiar with your camera and lens it will feel more comfortable and natural. If you have access to a point and shoot I would suggest taking that with you everywhere, so that friends and others become accustomed to you with a camera in your hands

The advice regarding a friendly manner is invaluable and has helped me calm more than a few internal shakes

HTH and let us know how things are progressing.

Cheers,

Alan

 

[wildtracks]

Yeah, I agree with Hooky here. When you get to know your gear really well, you exude a confidence that makes people think 'oh there's a photographer'.
I just bought my first DSLR recently after nearly 20 years of shooting film, and I am still fumbling around in menus and trying to remember buttons, and it does no good for your public confidence.
Just shoot everything you can, in as varied a situation as you can and you'll be there in no time.

 

[Janice]

My main scarey bit is if people say... "what are you going to do with that picture?"... or .. "what do you want it for".

It sounds like Im a perve if I say.. I just keep them... or its my hobby, or something.

What should I say?

 

[CT]

Or "Shouldn't I be signing a model release form?"

I normally say I'm a freelance photographer and I'm just documenting the changing face of the town and the people over a long period with no plans to publish. They're usually happy with that.

 

[krazy_horse]

My main scarey bit is if people say... "what are you going to do with that picture?"... or .. "what do you want it for".

It sounds like Im a perve if I say.. I just keep them... or its my hobby, or something.

What should I say?

Same here Janice, honestly, i would have to say, err nothing really photoshop it, then put it on my hard drive, maybe i'll post it on Talkphotography web forum, so people can laugh at it

But that's what we do isn't it?

JB

 

[Lady Pitstop]

My main scarey bit is if people say... "what are you going to do with that picture?"... or .. "what do you want it for".

It sounds like Im a perve if I say.. I just keep them... or its my hobby, or something.

What should I say?

I know what you mean Janice. I haven't been brave enough to shoot people out and about - but that would throw me too.

I think it's the fact that you have this big camera and people somehow think you know what you're doing (in my case I don't half the time!)

 

[chenng]

I am really interesting in music photography. I love going to see my friends play at bars and clubs and recently I have been taking my camera. I'm no psychiatrist but I guess it's because I am and think of myself as a [SIZE=-1]amateur. So I don't get as close to the band as I should. The kit lens isn't good for low light and then I am messing around with the settings. I panic and then end up giving up.[/SIZE]

Hello Tobes.

With regard to the kit lens being no good for low light work, you are spot on - but don't panic and give up! You don't say what gear you are using, but a low light lens like a Canon 50mm 1.8 will do wonders for your indoor photography. Also you will hopefully be able to up the ISO and shoot without flash - drawing even less attention to yourself - and thus take some of the pressure away because you are not getting stared at! You can pick one up for about 60 quid, a really worthwhile investment. Make sure you post some of your results here!

 

[Ugs]

My main scarey bit is if people say... "what are you going to do with that picture?"... or .. "what do you want it for".

It sounds like Im a perve if I say.. I just keep them... or its my hobby, or something.

What should I say?

I havent come across that yet but I have a plan! :-

I would say that I am a freelance "tog" looking for and taking images of "interesting people and situations" for my own interest and they will not be published. I have also printed a few small cards giving my name and a "throwaway" e-mail address. The plan is to write the image file number on the card, hand it to the person and ask them to email me with the file number if they would like a file copy. Wouldnt cost me anything to send them one ... [shrug] havent had to use that ploy yet but it might satisfy a few people.

 

[CT]

Here's an actual situation which happened. I think I took this shot about 5 years ago. Check out the guy with the white hair who I've arrowed.

Immediately after I took the shot, he came marching up and demanded to know what I was doing. I gave him a similar spiel to the one I outlined above. He demanded I delete the shot, whereon I politely told him I was under no compunction to delete it and showed him the shot pointing out that he was hardly visible in the shot anyway. He still demanded that I delete it and became more and more objectionable to the point where I just told him to b****r off... which he did but he wasn't a happy bunny. This was with a Nikon Coolpix btw - not a DSLR!

Normally tbh if people asked me to delete an image in a proper manner (and the shot wasn't an absolute corker) I'd just happily comply rather than make an issue of it.

Sometimes an offer of a free print overcomes a lot of objections, but if you promise a print make sure you send them one.

 

[Janice]

He was probably claiming benefit and was just on his way home from work!!

 

[InaGlo]

Ahh! good old Walsall town, used to work just left of that statue.
I can see why the guy complained at being photographed ... isnt that a Poundland carrier in his mitts

Seriously though, I think being a mere mousey female, Id be a bit wary of shooting in some town centres. Im planning to get out there once the weather improves but Im going to start off gently with somewhere like Worcester ... probably take me a while to build up to Wolverhampton I think!

 

[Venomator]

Immediately after I took the shot, he came marching up and demanded to know what I was doing. I gave him a similar spiel to the one I outlined above. He demanded I delete the shot, whereon I politely told him I was under no compunction to delete it and showed him the shot pointing out that he was hardly visible in the shot anyway. He still demanded that I delete it and became more and more objectionable to the point where I just told him to b****r off... which he did but he wasn't a happy bunny. This was with a Nikon Coolpix btw - not a DSLR!

I would have been inclined to think about offering it to the police on a just in case basis ... I cannot see any other reason for him being so pedantic ... ... especially from such a distance ... :shrug:


I bet he doesn't have a clue just how many other cameras and videos were picking him up that day though ...


Glad you didn't succumb to his demands Cedric ...

 

[CT]

He was probably claiming benefit and was just on his way home from work!!

LOL. He was with a female too which can sometimes be an issue.

 

[CT]

Seriously though, I think being a mere mousey female, Id be a bit wary of shooting in some town centres. Im planning to get out there once the weather improves but Im going to start off gently with somewhere like Worcester ... probably take me a while to build up to Wolverhampton I think!

Glo everyone needs to be careful - I am these days. This isn't meant to put anyone off, but it's important to realise it can happen, and you need to exercise a bit of common sense and judgement sometimes about who you're pointing a camera at.... time of day etc.

There's plenty of places in Walsall and Wolverhampton where you could be going home via A and E.

 

[Tobes]

Well that was a read

Thanks everyone. Fingers crossed the weather picks up tomorrow.

Haha, I see my title has been changed again!

barsbyart. Yeah while Newquay isn't a bad place I'm well aware that anywhere, anytime my stuff could get nicked. Luckily for them it's not much at the moment.

Alan, any places round here you could recommended?

 

[SimonTALM]

My main scarey bit is if people say... "what are you going to do with that picture?"... or .. "what do you want it for".
/snip/
What should I say?

Or "Shouldn't I be signing a model release form?" /snip/

I received a great book for Christmas called "Beyond Portaiture" there is a section in there on how to approach people and what to say as well as a section on how to handle the nerves.

The book is aimed at the stock photographer so even covers how to ask someone to sign a model release in the street but the author suggests that even if you aren't planning on selling the images it can still be a good idea to ask them. Simply because if you do find you have a real corker of an image imagine how you would feel if you couldn't use it to it's full capability.

EDIT - I would say what the book says but I don't actually have it with me - I will do a review of it and put it in the reviews section some point next week (and I'll put the link in this thread)

 

[CJR]

I go thru exactly the same doubts and fears as others have said, and found just the same advice helpful. Go to places and occasions where there are lots of other togs around - over the summer I went to several classic / vintage car displays and shows, where some of the car owners were dressed in the appropriate period costumes, and I felt quite confident in both taking candids and also asking people if I could take their pics. Everyone I asked reacted positively and seemed to enjoy a bit of chat and having their pics taken.

a "throwaway" e-mail address. The plan is to write the image file number on the card, hand it to the person and ask them to email me with the file number if they would like a file copy. Wouldnt cost me anything to send them one ... [shrug] havent had to use that ploy yet but it might satisfy a few people.

This is a great idea Ugs, and I have just set up a hotmail email account for this very purpose. It seems only fair to be willing to share with someone the pic you've taken, without leaving yourself and your main email system potentially open to spam or worse.

Thanks!

Cathy

 

[Ugs]

Thanks Cathy - I am sure it will placate some people