Help me finish a film this evening (Poor) result added!

Asha

Asha

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Asha
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Had a wander with the rz67 today and i'm impatient to develop the film.

So, as i've never done star trails on film and i have two frames left along with a garden located in an area which receives very little light pollution, what better way to finish the roll.

So your help please.

Film is rollei rpx 100

What aperture and expose duration do you guys suggest?

I have two oportunities so can try a couple of différent approaches though i'd like to get a usable result as against just stabbing in thé dark......punn intended:D

While you all rush to your keyboards with advice, i'll go check it aint a full moon! :rolleyes:
 
Well you can discount the multiple exposure/stacking method. Depending how brave you are, use something like F8-F11 and try two different exposure lengths or something like 1 minute and 5 mins [if nothing else you can use these as tests to gauge what settings you would go with next time] ... or, do a long exposure with one, and perhaps try lens wide open and max 30 sec exposure to get a star picture instead of a star trail, anything more than 30 secs and you will get motion blur on the stars, even 30 secs is pushing it, but given the 100 film, might be needed.

Can't remember Asha, do you have digi camera you can do a test run with first to see what sort of settings you are getting? I know you might have to play around to transfer equivalent settings over, but if you have that option, might be worth a go.
 
StephenM said:
Any help here?
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Offers a little help but digi and film are light years apart in this field.....i already have a stack of negs that are naff, after this evening there cud be two more on thé pile lol
It was Matt who introduced me to star trails a few years ago when i met him in thé uk.
We did the stacking thing with digi...... Interesting but film always gives more satisfaction for me.....even tho i stuff more shots than most f&c members.....maybe i'm a true crusty filmie!'
 
Are you too far south for the eclipse tomorrow morning?
 
Yv said:
Well you can discount the multiple exposure/stacking method. Depending how brave you are, use something like F8-F11 and try two different exposure lengths or something like 1 minute and 5 mins [if nothing else you can use these as tests to gauge what settings you would go with next time] ... or, do a long exposure with one, and perhaps try lens wide open and max 30 sec exposure to get a star picture instead of a star trail, anything more than 30 secs and you will get motion blur on the stars, even 30 secs is pushing it, but given the 100 film, might be needed.

Can't remember Asha, do you have digi camera you can do a test run with first to see what sort of settings you are getting? I know you might have to play around to transfer equivalent settings over, but if you have that option, might be worth a go.
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Yeah digi camera.....i knew they had a use :D

I would have thought much longer than a min or five tbh to expose correctly but there again i aint a clue:rolleyes::p
 
Asha said:
Yeah digi camera.....i knew they had a use :D

I would have thought much longer than a min or five tbh to expose correctly but there again i aint a clue:rolleyes::p
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Hard to know, haven't shot at ISO 100 for a long time, but I know at 200 on the digital, that would over expose massively due to light pollution here, so was taking that into account. Use the digital first, see how far you can push exposure length. I have done 45 min exposures in low pollution, but that was using much smaller apertures and ended up with horrible artifacts - guess that doesn't matter on film though :LOL:

Wrap up, have a hot drinks on standby and prepare to wait... :D


...and I still want to know now if an exposure stacking method would work in a single step on a film camera, really want to know!! Might have to try when the weather clears here and I get out for a night, satisfy my own curiosity
 
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Yv said:
Hard to know, haven't shot at ISO 100 for a long time, but I know at 200 on the digital, that would over expose massively due to light pollution here, so was taking that into account. Use the digital first, see how far you can push exposure length. I have done 45 min exposures in low pollution, but that was using much smaller apertures and ended up with horrible artifacts - guess that doesn't matter on film though :lol:

Wrap up, have a hot drinks on standby and prepare to wait... :D
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You haven't shot at 100 ISO for a while, blimey you would av been in need of additional fingers to calculate with today .....i shot a roll of ilford sellochrome which was a fast film in its day ( between 50 & 80 asa) at ISO 10 to allow some exposure for its age. Tbh it probably needed another couple of stops seeing as it expiréd in march 1949 !!!!! but i was already shooting at 1/8 F/16 in full sun :cool::D

Horrible artifacts don't pose me a problem .....i socialise regularly with them in f&c :eek::D:D

Wrap up, hot drinks etc ...nah.......i'm hoping for a two hour exposure time to go out my door, set up in torchlite, open shutter and grope my way back indoors for tea, biscuits and TV.:p
Probably forget where i've located the tripod and trip over it about 11pm
If you dont hear from me tomorrow, call tog rescue! :D
 
Well, I've recently attempted some star trails on film. The one below was a 25 minute exposure at f/2.8 using Fuji Pro 160NS. I used a grad filter to try to hold back some of the light from the town.

 
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Yeah that is nice, ...i saw it in thé other thread a little while back.

OK well thé digi idea sort of helped ..... 5 mins at 6400 ISO gave a base to work on and with RJs info i've gone for f/5.6 for an hour or so.......i cant find recipricol détails on rpx film so it is a hit and miss affair.

When this is done, I'll try another exposure for two hours

I found a bit of info stating that thé longer exposure will lengthen thé trails without affecting the actual luminosity of thé scene to any great degree........we'll see !
 
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I did a 54 shot in January, f11 for an hour, very thin negative.
 
Asha said:
Yeah that is nice, ...i saw it in thé other thread a little while back.

OK well thé digi idea sort of helped ..... 5 mins at 6400 ISO gave a base to work on and with RJs info i've gone for f/5.6 for an hour or so.......i cant find recipricol détails on rpx film so it is a hit and miss affair.

When this is done, I'll try another exposure for two hours

I found a bit of info stating that thé longer exposure will lengthen thé trails without affecting the actual luminosity of thé scene to any great degree........we'll see !
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I'm not sure what lens you're using, but I've found that I prefer slightly shorter exposures with my 80mm lens on medium format. I also like to cover the lens up for about a minute and then uncover it for another minute before ending the exposure. (this is what I did with the example above)

The longer exposures without a break in the trail just aren't as compelling or dynamic for me. Here is one that was a 2.5 hour exposure on Acros 100 at f/2.8 without a break in the trails. It's fine, but I definitely prefer the one that I posted above.

 
An update on this:

I ended up only shooting one frame as after leaving thé camera sat for an hour and a half, i went out to find it extremely wet with condensation/ humidity so a second attempt was realistically out of thé question.

After allowing to camera to "dry itself out" in thé entrance i shot an internal still life scene to finish thé roll.

Anyway, thé star trail frame is thin but there are signs of light on there!

I'll post thé result regardless of how poor it may be as soon as i get it scanned.
 
As promised:

Approx an hour and a half at F/11 (iso 100)

Trees and building are to the right side.

Far from RJ's results but it gives me a base to work on and at least i know for sure I can get star trails on film :banana:


View attachment 33304
 
OK, a slightly OT question, but related... if you guys take a particularly important picture, something you might want to either repeat or use as a guide for another effort, how do you remember what settings you used? Just good memories or note pad and pen and note them down? Then forget where you put them....
 
Depends. If it's a test roll or record shots or a roll of 35mm then I don't bother. I take a notepad with me when I go out with medium format gear and then I usually forget to do anything with it or forget about it after the first few shots. I intend to take a pad when I finally get around to shooting large format but as I haven't yet, I can't say whether I'll actually do it.

Hope that helps ... :whistle:
 
skysh4rk said:
F/11? I thought that you had decided on f/5.6?
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Oh darn it, ...Maybe it was F/5.6....I'd been shooting all afternoon with seriously old film that required more fingers and thumbs that i have to calculate exposure, that by the time the evening came i didnt know what the h**l I was doing :D

Can we agree half way and say F/8 :ROFLMAO:


Seriously though, I did read that the length of exposure time is pretty much irrelevant as to how bright the scene becomes, the longer duration simply offers longer trails and different effects , like complete circular trails etc

Presumably this line of thought is if there is no other form of light other than the stars themselves.

Either way i'm happy enough to know that i can actually capture them so I think a play with some cheapo 35mm frames are in order to improve and find an ideal location and eposure time.
 
Yv said:
OK, a slightly OT question, but related... if you guys take a particularly important picture, something you might want to either repeat or use as a guide for another effort, how do you remember what settings you used? Just good memories or note pad and pen and note them down? Then forget where you put them....
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I used to write notes of every shot I took but over time, i found it actually hindered me.

So now I simply shoot away, make an odd note or two if particularly important and add that note to the edge of the negative sleeves along with film, camera developer, date, and possibly the location.

I've added the details to this shot specifically as it's my first attempt at startrails on film but because of @skysh4rk I now don't know wether to leave it as F/11, change it to F/5.6 or simply put " Aint a flippin clue!" :D
 
Asha said:
I used to write notes of every shot I took but over time, i found it actually hindered me.

So now I simply shoot away, make an odd note or two if particularly important and add that note to the edge of the negative sleeves along with film, camera developer, date, and possibly the location.

I've added the details to this shot specifically as it's my first attempt at startrails on film but because of @skysh4rk I now don't know wether to leave it as F/11, change it to F/5.6 or simply put " Aint a flippin clue!" :D
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Well that was what I was thinking, I have just been adding a label to neg sleeve with date, camera, content and film, but was thinking more stuff like this, the one off specials as it were :lol:
 
Yv said:
OK, a slightly OT question, but related... if you guys take a particularly important picture, something you might want to either repeat or use as a guide for another effort, how do you remember what settings you used? Just good memories or note pad and pen and note them down? Then forget where you put them....
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I use the PhotoExif app for my iPhone. It allows me to record exposure, time, and location data whenever I shoot a frame. It also has a companion desktop app for Macs, which then adds that exif data to the corresponding scans.

Asha said:
Seriously though, I did read that the length of exposure time is pretty much irrelevant as to how bright the scene becomes, the longer duration simply offers longer trails and different effects , like complete circular trails etc

Presumably this line of thought is if there is no other form of light other than the stars themselves.
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Well, I worked from this line of thought, even though there were lights from the town at the bottom of the frame. I didn't bother to calculate time based on exposure, but just chose the time based on the length of star trails I was looking for. I shot wide open.
 
I don't make any notes for shots on film, I can't really think of a use for them, I mean, after a few years hopefully you are experienced enough to just....know, and what you don't know hardly seems relevant.
Occasionally I'm annoyed that I can't date a photo, not even the year in some cases, that's the only detail that I wish I could be arsed to record.

Prints though....ahh now prints, gawd, pages and pages...lol
 
joxby said:
I don't make any notes for shots on film, I can't really think of a use for them, I mean, after a few years hopefully you are experienced enough to just....know, and what you don't know hardly seems relevant.
Occasionally I'm annoyed that I can't date a photo, not even the year in some cases, that's the only detail that I wish I could be arsed to record.

Prints though....ahh now prints, gawd, pages and pages...lol
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I have mentioned before, my late pa in law has left us boxes and boxes, some prints, but mainly slides, from his world travels and he travelled a lot with his work! A few years ago I bought a really cheap scanner and started digitising some of them, and was so grateful that many had both place and year written on them. My job over the next couple of years, as i am investing in a decent-ish scanner [V550 instead of the £50 thing I have before] is to get them all done properly, fully catalogued. Hopefully they will tie in with a lot of the filing cabinets of his paperwork we also have and make a fascinating insight to his life/work for family history.
 
Yv said:
I have mentioned before, my late pa in law has left us boxes and boxes, some prints, but mainly slides, from his world travels and he travelled a lot with his work! A few years ago I bought a really cheap scanner and started digitising some of them, and was so grateful that many had both place and year written on them. My job over the next couple of years, as i am investing in a decent-ish scanner [V550 instead of the £50 thing I have before] is to get them all done properly, fully catalogued. Hopefully they will tie in with a lot of the filing cabinets of his paperwork we also have and make a fascinating insight to his life/work for family history.
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Precisely why i'm encrypting all my negs, prints, and kit so as to give those folk following me something interesting to occupy themselves with.
Thing is i started the process a few décades too early and its confusing thé hell out of me! :D
 
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on a allied note to the whole "settings" thing... Similar to the PhotoEXIF thing for Mac, There's a windows program called filmtagger that allows you to basically "back write" exif details into your digital files - so you can embed the camera / lens / film type / iso and all that sort of thing instead of the camera type coming up as "Epson V500" or whatever... OK, you still need a notebook or something to capture the information in the first place, but at least you can get it into the eventual file - I find it gives me something to do when I'm scanning - there's usually just enough time to embed the details into the .TIF file before the next frame comes through...
 
TheBigYin said:
on a allied note to the whole "settings" thing... Similar to the PhotoEXIF thing for Mac, There's a windows program called filmtagger that allows you to basically "back write" exif details into your digital files - so you can embed the camera / lens / film type / iso and all that sort of thing instead of the camera type coming up as "Epson V500" or whatever... OK, you still need a notebook or something to capture the information in the first place, but at least you can get it into the eventual file - I find it gives me something to do when I'm scanning - there's usually just enough time to embed the details into the .TIF file before the next frame comes through...
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On a similar thing, I have been adding camera type just as keywords in lightroom as they have importing from the discs, though I could actually add and synch that kind of info after import anyway, but not sure I could be bothered with lens and settings unless, as above, it was a significant photo for some reason.
 
I set the scanner to batch-scan to a scratch directory called "scanbucket", and as the file is dropped in there, I hit it with the film-tagger and move it to a subdirectory called "tagged"... Lightroom is then set to auto-import anything that hits "scanbucket\tagged" and just hoovers the files up at that point :)
 
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TheBigYin said:
I set the scanner to batch-scan to a scratch directory called "scanbucket", and as the file is dropped in there, I hit it with the film-tagger and move it to a subdirectory called "tagged"... Lightroom is then set to auto-import anything that hits "scanbucket\tagged" and just hoovers the files up at that point :)
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will ask you more about that when scanner arrives and I find I have to change workflow :lol:
 
might be better asking someone who's got a Epson if you're getting a V550... the software for the Epson is probably different to the Canon and the old version of Silverfast that i'm still using :lol:
 
Asha said:
Seriously though, I did read that the length of exposure time is pretty much irrelevant as to how bright the scene becomes, the longer duration simply offers longer trails and different effects , like complete circular trails etc

.
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not sure i agree with this . lets not bother with shutter speeds then .
 
donut said:
not sure i agree with this . lets not bother with shutter speeds then .
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I have to confess that i thought it strange when i read it.......if i can find the write up again, i'll post a link.
 
Asha said:
I have to confess that i thought it strange when i read it.......if i can find the write up again, i'll post a link.
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Possibly, in absolute zero light pollution, this is close to the truth, though you would probably have to be somewhere in the middle of the outback to guarantee such circumstances and even then, you would expect a degree of brightening, even if over many hours exposure if only from the light created by the stars themselves. :thinking:
 
As I understand it, the stars are point sources and don't add any significant light to the scene and since they're moving (relative) they don't burn in. If it is really pitch black then there is no light so it doesn't really matter how long you expose for once you add reciprocity your not going to be near over exposure. You need to be more careful if the moon is out or if you don't close the shutter before dusk.
 
donut said:
not sure i agree with this . lets not bother with shutter speeds then .
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I believe that this is true with regard to the brightness of the star trails. The stars never occupy the same space long enough to have a noticeable effect, as they are constantly moving, so exposure time only affects the length of the trails.

In my two examples above, one is a 25-minute exposure and the other is a 150-minute exposure and I don't think there's much difference in brightness of the trails, despite 2.5 stops difference in shutter speed.

If there is ambient light, however, exposure time can make a difference with this, I think.

Edit: @steveo_mcg beat me to it.
 
I regularly take night picture with my digital camera. The moon is a huge factor to take into consideration and can make the exposure go from f/2.8 iso 800 8sec to f/2.8 iso2500 25sec. I know it's not film based but it show how night condition can vary hugely.

I also recently use some superia 1600 iso thinking that something i want to look into for night picture. But to be honnest the result are very grainy and faded, i don't think this film would be any good for this kind of purpose.
 
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Lemaildetom said:
I also recently use some superia 1600 iso thinking that something i want to look into for night picture. But to be honnest the result are very grainy and faded, i don't think this film would be any good for this kind of purpose.
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You'd probably need to work out the reciprocity adjustment, fast films aren't always the best idea when the exposure times gets to >60s.
 
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