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DinoS

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Hi

I was at a school play last night and was getting in some pratice using my canon 50mm F1.8 and the shutter speed was 1/25 using ISO 800.

I had to therefore shoot in raw and increase the shutter speed hoping i can rescure them on PS and i can't seem to.

It there a way to reduce noise and secondly how could i increase the shutter speed without buying a 50mm 1.0L

thanks

Mark
 
1/25 at 800 ISO should be able to shoot some pretty low light at F1.8 - You can try and remove noise with software such as noise ninja and stuff, but it tends to soften the shots overall, so if a shot is soft (as it can tend to be in low light) removing noise often makes it even softer :(

What I did recently using my 50mm 1.8, in low light, was use Tv mode and set the shutter speed to 1/60 as I know I can just about hand hold this at 50mm and let the camera work out my f stops. It does mean some shots can come out underexposed (as it just hits 1.8 and cant go any lower), but shooting in RAW you can boost the shot a bit, again you get noise but the shot should hopefully be sharp so you can get away with more harsh noise removal. That was my theory anyway :D
 
Hi thanks,

i used a tripod as well and it wanted me to do about 1/13 at some points. I slowed it down to 1/100 and the shots are quite nosiey so do you think i should invest in a flash gun?

i used my flash on my camera and it worked alright. I just wished i used it for all my shots.
 
A seperate flashgun will give you much more chance to get the shot yes.
 
Jimmy Lemon, I thought too the 50mm F1.8 should be able to shoot in low light but i was surprised at the shutter speed.
 
Only thing about using flash is that it's possibly going to kill the atmosphere. You got any examples of the shots?
 
dod said:
Only thing about using flash is that it's possibly going to kill the atmosphere. You got any examples of the shots?
Click to expand...

I'm totally with DoD, chances are, any flash will make the shots look pants.

I think that noise (grain) in live shots looks nice anyway, gives them a gritty feel, adds to the atmosphere. Try converting them to mono too, you'll be surprised how much clearer they can become.

I wouldn't shoot at 1/25, even in daylight you are going to get blur, its way to slow, especially for people moving around on a stage. You should be using at least 1/60.

ISO 800 should be pretty good to be honest, can you check you have not accidentally set your camera exposure compensation to -2 or something.

And as DoD said, post an image or two so we can see what you are seeing ;)

Thanks.
 
Why did you stop at ISO 800, the 400D goes to 1600 doesn't it?
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
VERY noisy though pxl8 :( I never use it as the shots arent really usable aftewards.
Click to expand...

I use ISO1600 all the time for bands/event work and get poster size prints out of them that look great.

1/80s, f/4, 154mm, ISO1600, handheld
web_IMG_3641.jpg


1/80s, f/4, 200mm, ISO3200, handheld
web_5757.jpg


Both were exported from LR to web sized images and haven't been through any noise reduction s/w apart from whatever LR does by default.
 
i needed a fast enough shutter speed to stop the movement,but it the meter said 1/25. i rasied it to 1/60 but the photos were dark so i hoped i could resurcte it but i din't think i will be able to.

thanks

Mark
 
400D, I do feel for you as I was also very unhappy with my handheld photos in low light conditions. Sometimes the only proper way to get past this is to use a tripod or use a flash. A tripod is ok if you have space and time to set it up, but then if you are shooting moving subjects the long exposure that the camera wants will not be of use. If you use a flash you can literally set the settings you desire and then the flash will output enough light to proper expose at those settings.

This is what I found anyway, after trying to shoot some photos at my Grandma's birthday without and external flash I found out the importance of flash to obtain good photos indoors. I have since bought a Canon 580EX for my 400D and can now do all my shots handheld and obtain good photos.

Here is a photo using flash, 400D and 50mm 1.8. Taken in the evening hand held by my dad who literally just pointed and shot (I punched in some settings before hand), in low light and no post processing done to it.

meyi2.jpg
 
Hi thanks, i was using a tripod but the shutter speed was too long.

Will the flash make the skin tones more natural
 
I think thats more to do with white balance and curves isn't it?

There is also a diffuser you can use for the flash to help soften the light and give a more natural skin tone, one called Gary Fong's LightSphere which you can read more about and see a video demo here:

http://store.garyfonginc.com/licl.html

This has amazing reviews and well worth having but it's a bit hard to get hold off here and kerso does it for around £40.

On the bay there's an imitation around for just under £10, just search for 'lambency' and it will come up. I've ordered one recently and a/w delivery, can't wait to try it out.
 
400D, it would be helpful if you posted a sample shot so we can see the conditions you were shooting under.

The basic answer of how to increase shutter speed is more light either with flash or increasing the ISO.

If you had problems with the skin tones it sounds like a white balance problem - did the lighting for the play use coloured gels?
 
Sorry to go off topic but those shots are amazing for 1600ISO pxl8 - were those taken on a 400D though? if so the 400D can handle noise much better than my 350D!

EDIT - looking at you kit list I see you shoot on a 40D and 30D that would make more sense, the 350 and 400 cant handle noise anywhere near as well in my experience :(
 
Jimmy, both were 30D, the 40D shows a slight improvement over that. With good noise reduction software the 350D/400D should produce something just as good if not better.
 
Practice makes perfect. Your hand-holding technique can always be improved to be able to shoot at low speeds. Personally I would have boosted ISO to the max the camera would have done, set the aperature to the widest it would go and then fire away. Recover from the noise later, it's more important ( IMO ) to get the shot with noise than not get it at all...

But then I would say that, I shoot Nikon... :nikon:
 
Hi thanks I will try and post some photos later.

my main idea is that i was surprised at the slow metred shutter speed even when i rasied it to ISO1600 it still metered 1/50 which wasn't enough to 'freeze' the action.

I am considering buying a external flash as i am going to do more work for the school, will this be useful without it making the person really white.

any ideas

Thanks

Mark
 
I do a lot of theatre photography and usually shoot at 1600 ISO - I use Nikon VR lenses and shoot pretty wide open - here's one from last week . . . this was hand held during a perfromance - not ideal!

AWP_4428.jpg


I also did the lighting design.
 
i think my problem was that the stage wasn't bery well lit.

it had two strip lights for the whole stage and it was pretty dark
 
two strip lightts - is NOT lit at all!! LOL
 
The flash shouldn't over expose the person but you might find you get a coal cellar effect where the person is well exposed but the background it very dark. Flash metering is calculated by the light bouncing back from the subject, which generally means the closest thing to the camera. When that happens not enough light reaches beyond the subject and it's left in darkness. Bouncing the flash off a wall or the ceiling is the best way around this but if you're far away or in a large room with a high ceiling the flash might not have enough power to cope - bouncing flash "wastes" a lot of the power but does give a much more pleasing result.

If you were only getting 1/50s, f/1.8, ISO1600 it sounds like a very dark setting. Are there no chances of adding more lights or turning them up assuming it's a stage production of some sort?
 
it was a very low budget productiona and the lighting hadn't been put up.

i do not think more lights could be added so it bouncing a flash the only route

here is so info from a well exposed shot

Tv(Shutter Speed)
1/40Sec.
Av(Aperture Value)
F1.8
Metering Modes
Evaluative metering
Exposure Compensation
+2/3
ISO Speed
1600
Lens
EF50mm f/1.8
Focal Length
50.0 mm
thanks

Mark
 
what do the settings look like to you?
 
I do a lot of theatre photography as well and the 50 f1.8 is very good. I regularly use mine at iso 1200 - 1600 on my 30D and am pleased with the results.

2 strip lights won't work!


Most of these pictures from page 3 onwards were with a nifty fifty. Recent production of Carries War set in the round, lights high pointing down, no set so not much reflected light, also effectively shooting 4 productions at once as the audience sits around the rectangular stage. Ignore the pricing, I'm a member of this group and donate the time, they just pay for printing costs!

http://www.norwichphoto.co.uk/gallery/carrieswar/
 
hi thanks,

first i do not think the 400d can handle high iso and two compared to where i was i think that there was a lot of lighting. thanks for that andrew and the shots are very good and the colours are lovely and golden
 
I belong to 4 or 5 amdram groups, mainly doing lighting.

The smallest group uses 3000 watts of light, sounds a lot, but is basically 4 lamps, the most you can run of a 13amp wall socket. Not much flexibility and lots of unpleasant shadows. Can't be helped.

The largest group I belong to uses 17,000 watts for a general daylight / bright scene. Shadows are controlled to a minimum, much bigger venue. They use painted flats which reflect a lot of light. Can use iso 400 shooting here :) Maximum power is over 30,000 watts. They have 4 x 32amp feeds for stage lights

I sometimes do lighting in a venue with 3 times this power.

A couple of strip lights is going to be around 100 watts. In something like this you need to add light by using flash. I don't like using flash as it takes out any creative lighting effects the lighting man has put in, so you need to turn down flash output quite a bit. I prefer the compromise of some noise and maybe a bit of blurring on hands than the effect flash often gives.
 
repeated my message so OOPPSS!!
 
thanks, there was no lighting by the lighting MAN as there isn't one, So do you think a flash could be used.
 
Mark,

When shooting high ISO it's very important to expose the shot well, if anything slightly over because you don't want to have to lift it in post as it will just add to the noise.

If you have to shoot high ISO just turn the noise to your advantage, go high contrast B+W to give the shots some mood.

But as everyone has said, 2 strip lights just isn't enough and if I was asked to shoot there I'd be having a word with whoever was running the thing and explaining that it's not enough light for even a halfway decent shot. Even sticking a couple of 500W work lights from B+Q into the mix would be a massive improvement.

If they can't do anything about the lighting then you're going to be stuck with flash or just put the camera away and enjoy the show instead.
 
I've done lighting in lots of schools for various amdram groups. Most have some stage lighting, from the rudimentary to comprehensive.

If they have none, they could consider hiring some in, it doesn't cost much and makes a big difference.

Otherwise, yes, you'll need to resort to flash. Generally the on-board flash isn't powerful enough and you'll need to resort to an external flash.
 
2090988689_962ec22bf6_b.jpg


here is a picture of the venue the photo was taken with the in camera flash
 
pxl8's suggestion of 500w halgoen lamps from B&Q is a good one. Its a good cheap way of flooding the stage with light. You need to get the lights high so that shadows are cast on the floor and not on the backdrop, if you can't then you either have to accept this or start adding extra lights aimed at the backdrop to chase out shadows.

cheap floodlights are often £ 5 each.

If they're 500w you can run 5 safely, 6 possibly a 13 amp circuit, providing there isn't a lot of power hungry stuff.
 
they normally do have lighting just that this was orgainsied by someon at school and there was no budget.

anyway that is the venue, can you see any other lighting.
 
Many groups would be pleased with that stage, looks a decent size with curtain tracks. Plenty of overhead poles to hang stage lights as well - just needs some.

Also I'd recommend getting on the same level as the stage as otherwise you end up with a lot of shots up peoples noses, and this isn't the most flattering viewpoint. I often line up a row of tables in front of the stage and can walk along this. Gets me to the right height.
 
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