Help getting into 120...

ChrisR

ChrisR

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So, I do want to get into 120:love:, at a reasonably low cost:help:. I've been watching fleabay auctions, and even bidding on a few, without success so far. I've not been able to actually hold one... until today, when I dropped in to Camerabase in Edinburgh (the possibly somewhat overpriced shop where I bought my Canonet). I managed to hold and try a few TLRs and folders... and I'm confused!:thinking:

I should preface this with a caveat: part of my problem stems from an injury to my right hand some years ago, which leaves me with compromised grip and mostly fixed fingers (middle one has a bit of bend).:thumbsdown: I find I can use some cameras much better than others: my Pentaxen work a treat, Trip is fine, Canonet just doesn't work for me.

I first tried a Mamiya 220 (£220!), which in many ways I liked. The viewfinder was crisp and it was much easier to see a focused image than I had thought. But getting to focus was a problem; had to support the Mamiya underneath while turinging the focus wheel left-handed. Wind on definitely on the right hand side, so it looked like I'd have to turn it completely over to wind on. And HEAVY! Maybe it would be ok on a strap. And getting the WLF packed away was a pain.:shake:

Tried a Rolleiflex even though it was over 3 times the price (planar lens?). Still heavy, maybe a bit less so. Still the same focus and wind-on problems,:shake: although the WLF folds down in one movement.

Tried a Rolleicord, much lighter, but wind-on even harder without a handle. I can't remember what put me off... oh yes, maybe the price!:shake: They didn't have any Yashica Mats or Minolta Autocords to try.

So then I tried a Super Ikonta. Lots to like, nice solid build. But the rangefinder spot was very faint, and I got the idea that focus might be pretty tough;:shake: probably pretty much zone focus. But the shutter speed and aperture thing really got to me.:gag: Maybe it's a good idea that the default is for these to be coupled so you can change the shutter speed and have the aperture change to compensate. But if you DON'T want to do that (like, changing the exposure, d'oh?), it's a nightmare. Press in on this thing on the right and move the thing on the left... until it locks, then move the thing on the right until you can change the thing on the left again. Oh, and get your glasses out because the shutter speed and aperture numbers are practically invisible!

So I left, to think about it. There's another 2nd hand shop somewhere else in Edinburgh so I might see if I can find a Yash Mat to fondle. Or maybe a simple Nettar, like Simon Ess's nationwide traveler, might be right... it seemed simple enough (even if I messed up my shot), but I was looking for something higher quality.:bonk:

Any advice?:help: (Thanks for listening to my moan BTW; therapeutic just writing it!)
 
How about the fuji 645 cameras? Most are fixed focal length but there was a zoom version.

I have the wide angle version which has zone focus and a limited range of apertures and shutter speeds but it's fun to use and easy to operate and carry around. Decent quality too.
 
If you want a shot of my Ikonta 524, I'm in the City Center most days just give me an evenings notice and I'll chuck it in the bag.

Its fully manual shutter and aperture are uncoupled and some times (often) I forget to change one or the other. But its very simple to use if you're patient, though some of the markings are a smidgen small!

Its got a built in rangefinder but I'm less convinced than I was that its accurate, plus as you noted it rubbish. Thinking of looking into a better one to go in the accessory shoe.
 
Define reasonably low cost? £100 max?

I've got a Yashica MAT 124G (great lens) and i've handled a few other TLR's (but not the interchangeable lens ones though like the Mamiya) and there's isn't a huge difference in usability between them, once you've tried one or two you've pretty much used them all really. I'm not fond of how TLR's handle, fiddly, annoying to hold straight and so on, so i always say to people that if you hate using them don't worry about it as it's just personal preference, some people prefer rangefinders over SLR's, same kind of thing.
If you don't like TLR just cross it off your list and move on.

I know what you mean about those EV priority mode shutters you either like them or hate them, i've got a few cameras with them on and it just makes them extra fiddly to use if you don't use EV readings. They are like the old school version of the Program (P) mode on a modern SLR where the program shifts the aperture/shutter up and down.

I'm guessing on what you've been looking at a compact camera in 6x6 format is the goal?
The thing is all these kind of cameras are going to be old which 90%+ of the time means 1950-1960, so they will all have some issues.
  • Most common is sticky shutter or slow shutter, i've tested a few of my 1950's folders and the shutter speeds are all about a stop slower than they should be (e.g. 1/500th is really shooting at 1/250th or 1/200th), only a complete strip down, cleaning and rebuild of the shutter will get this back to within 20% of advertised speeds which is pretty close to 1950's factory spec.
  • Leaky bellows can be another one, easy to test though with a dark room and a torch, hard to fix properly without a new bellows.
  • A dim rangefinder is fairly common on cameras with them, the old timey semi-silvered mirrors degrade and get dirty to make it worse, if you decide to clean them yourself be very very careful, even a moist cotton bud can strip the old coatings off easily. The low cost solutions to this are to use marker pen to increase contrast on the RF patch or cut up some blue/yellow or red/green flash gels and put them on the two RF windows for extra contrast.

Out of the slightly better 6x6 folder i've come across the ones i usually recommend are the Franka Solida models with uncoupled rangefinders (i.e. not connected to the focus ring), i have a Franka Solida IIIe myself and it's decent for a folder, f/2.9 lens, can use 40.5mm filters or a 40.5mm to 49mm step up ring, decent shutter, double exposure prevention.
The Balda Baldix or Super Baldax, might be hard pressed to tell these apart from the Franka's but good nonetheless.
Agfa Isolette III, pretty well known and not too difficult to find, has pretty much the same features as the Franka, just make sure you get one with the right shutter though.

If you can live without rangefinders and such there are a ton of cheap ass folders around from Agfa, Kershaw, Zeiss and the rest.

I personally now use a Bronica SQ-Ai SLR for medium format, got stick of folders and TLR's with their compromises and fiddly annoyances.
 
Chris, the C330 has a focus wheel on both sides but it is quite a beast and the WLF is still going to be a problem. Have a look at Ross Ensigns, I've had both the 16-20 and the 12-20 and they are lovely cameras, very well made with a good lens and still to be had at a reasonable price. I doubt either will be over £100 even in minty condition. My only problem was that I could not see the numbers through the red window when winding on (colour-blind, makes red things very difficult).

Andy
 
Wow thanks folks! A pile of helpful points there.

@Andysnap, I guess you mean the Ross Ensign folders (they also apparently did a box-camera-TLR thingy called FulVue). Any better ones or ones to avoid?

@Morinaka I guess I was thinking up to £200-ish. I was actually hoping to trade my Canonet back to Camerabase, but that's looking less likely, although they did have an Agfa folder under £100 (Record... but I think it was 6*9 which I don't want). Looking for 6*6, not 6*4.5. I've been avoiding the Bronica SLR type route on the assumption that holding up heavy SLRs to look through viewfinders is a problem (at least with a TLR you're holding it low, straight-armed, at least that was the thought).

@steveo_mcg that's a nice offer. I'm based near Commonwealth Pool, and will be going in to George Sq on Friday some time, so could possibly get to CC, if you could PM me some details. Thanks.

@desf, preferably not 645 as noted... I was taken with the idea of the Mamiya 6 earlier, but would need a few hundred more!
 
***I should preface this with a caveat: part of my problem stems from an injury to my right hand some years ago, which leaves me with compromised grip and mostly fixed fingers (middle one has a bit of bend). I find I can use some cameras much better than others: my Pentaxen work a treat, Trip is fine, Canonet just doesn't work for me.***

erm going to 120? I would think what is it that you are not getting from 35mm? Does it matter your 35mm shots are inferior to 120 in quality?
The original reason I switched to 120 many years ago was:- I was fed up trying to avoid dust spots etc while enlarging 35mm negs esp using colour paper.
 
Does it matter your 35mm shots are inferior to 120 in quality?

Yes, well it does to me.:)
 
Yeah the Mamiya 6 RF's would be ideal for you but way too expensive.

Bronica SLR type route on the assumption that holding up heavy SLRs to look through viewfinders is a problem
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I can understand that but all the medium format SLR cameras are heavy, but the Bronica is the lightest of out them.
My one in SLR mode as i call it i.e. with a lens, prism head, speed grip so you can hold it like an the SLR's people are used to is about 2.2KG or bordering on 5lbs.

Bronica SQ-Ai + Zenzanon-S 50mm f/3.5 by Morinaka., on Flickr

I'd say for anything other than daylight shots you'd probably want a tripod to take the weight off to keep the shot sharp, but since you are going medium format i assume you aren't firing off a bajillion shots a second so a tripod isn't a big deal.

Err anyway £200 then. Cameras to research would be Zeiss Super Ikonta III or IV, Agfa Super Isolette or its soviet copy the Iskra (this is quite rare though), Agfa Isolette III, Franka Solida's, Balda Super Baldax or Baldix, Dacora Royal. The most expensive ones there would be the Super Isolette and Iskra, rest should be sub-£100.
 
Andysnap said:
Does it matter your 35mm shots are inferior to 120 in quality?

Yes, well it does to me.:)
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Well if Chris is just going to take shots and post on a computer screen then the difference is less when comparing 35mm and 120. Perfect your 35mm skills and use VG lenses and it would easily be better compared to a poor 120 shot or camera. :shrug:
 
excalibur2 said:
***I should preface this with a caveat: part of my problem stems from an injury to my right hand some years ago, which leaves me with compromised grip and mostly fixed fingers (middle one has a bit of bend). I find I can use some cameras much better than others: my Pentaxen work a treat, Trip is fine, Canonet just doesn't work for me.***

erm going to 120? I would think what is it that you are not getting from 35mm? Does it matter your 35mm shots are inferior to 120 in quality?
The original reason I switched to 120 many years ago was:- I was fed up trying to avoid dust spots etc while enlarging 35mm negs esp using colour paper.
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Well, this is a toe in the water, to see whether there is (for me) the additional magic that some (eg Andysnap) seem to find. Hence the limited budget!

The really annoying thing is that I did own a folder for a while, around 40 years ago! I took one roll of film with it, and I suspect I gave it away to a charity shop in the 90s. Can't remember what it was, but I suspect an Agfa.

There just might be a folder and/or a TLR down at my sister's in Somerset packed in boxes from my parents' house, but I'm finding it hard to get down there. My sister said that the person helping her to move the stuff told her they weren't worth anything and she should throw them away; she can't remember if she did!:bang::bang::bang:
 
Chris, what you need to do is organise a film meet in or around Kenilworth then encourage all the MF film shooters to bring along a selection of their finest cameras, that way you'll get to try just about all possible options.

And we haven't had a film meet in the Midlands either.

If you didn't want to wait that long, I'd be happy to lend you a couple, I've got a selection of folders and TLR's which you're very welcome to try if you'd like, just cover the postage.
 
When I use my Rollei I focus with the left hand, my pinky, ring and middle fingers cradle the bottom and my index is on the shutter release. I then hook my thumb over the wind crank (I always leave it out and pointing up), so all I have to do to wind it on is just twist my wrist to advance the film. Sorta like this, except the Rollei doesn't advance film/cock the shutter in a full circle like that, so I twist the winder down with my thumb and then push it back up with the side of my index finger:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxl3cv0ulu1qe0eclo1_r1_500.gif

No need to switch hands, or to change the grip that much. It's almost as fast as using a thumb advance on a 35mm. :)
 
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RaglanSurf said:
Chris, what you need to do is organise a film meet in or around Kenilworth then encourage all the MF film shooters to bring along a selection of their finest cameras, that way you'll get to try just about all possible options.

And we haven't had a film meet in the Midlands either.

If you didn't want to wait that long, I'd be happy to lend you a couple, I've got a selection of folders and TLR's which you're very welcome to try if you'd like, just cover the postage.
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Midland film meet sounds a good idea, Nick. Meanwhile I'm borrowing a folder tomorrow from Steve in Edinburgh, and with luck I'm hoping - hoping - to get to the Greenwich meetup Saturday week. If not, I'll take you up on the loaner offer, thanks!

TP F&C is a wonderful place!
 
Whilst I am a big proponent of medium format, at the end of the day, a lot of the enjoyment comes out of using the gear itself. I love using the Rolleiflex, and love and live with the quirks that other people absolutely despise. I also love the results I get, but don't get too sucked into the allure of it all - which I know can be very easy, given F&C has a lot of medium format shooters.

Sure, try it and see - but if, ergonomically, 35mm works for you and you are satisfied with those images, then I see no special reason to jump to 120 :shrug:
 
freecom2 said:
Whilst I am a big proponent of medium format, at the end of the day, a lot of the enjoyment comes out of using the gear itself. I love using the Rolleiflex, and love and live with the quirks that other people absolutely despise. I also love the results I get, but don't get too sucked into the allure of it all - which I know can be very easy, given F&C has a lot of medium format shooters.

Sure, try it and see - but if, ergonomically, 35mm works for you and you are satisfied with those images, then I see no special reason to jump to 120 :shrug:
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If Asda did dev and scan for 120 film for £3 (like 35mm) while you shop, I wouldn't bother much with 35mm ;) Just think of Asda's low scan of about 1800dpi scanning 120...... it would be of very good quality :thumbs:
The fuji dev and scanning machines can handle 120 but no one cares. :'(
 
Well I met up briefly with @steveo_mcg at lunch time, and I now have a loaner Ikonta for the weekend AND a roll of Shanghai GP3 AND the offer of develop and scan the resulting negs! Which considering we have never met before I think is absolutely amazing. Thank you very much, Steve:) (especially for cycling across Edinburgh in really raw weather). AND it's not the only offer from F&C. So this is definitely the right group to be in, thanks everyone.

I've now loaded the film, but I was working* during the part of the day with absolutely gorgeous light (yes, southerners, no snow yet:wave:) and it's now a bit too dim for 100 ISO film with f/3.5 and slightly dodgy slow shutter speeds! No doubt by tomorrow it's be dark yellow and snowing...:thumbsdown:

* Working? WTF? I'm supposed to be retired! One day I'll do this thing properly! :bonk:
 
Thanks Steven, yes I saw that. At f/3.5 there's _no way_ you could squint and call it sharp!
 
Well I managed to get 12 shots in on @steveo_mcg's Ikonta over the weekend, and he came by this evening to pick it up (and the film). It was a fantastic offer (thanks Steven), and has probably saved me some wasted money and time, as I have pretty much convinced myself a folder is not for me. Perhaps it wasn't the best weekend to be experimenting (perhaps!), and it is a lovely piece of engineering and nice and compact. But I found it quite awkward to use, the rangefinder patvch impossible to see, and the viewfinder... unhelpful!

As I was getting into the lift to go down and deliver it to Steven though, a fellow stepped in. "Oh" he says "a Zeiss Ikonta hey. You into 120 film?" I explained a bit about what I was doing, and then he says "D'you want to try my Mamiya 645? That's a real camera!" Annoyingly I'm probably going south tomorrow, but I've got his card and will contact him when I'm next up here.

I just can't get over the generosity of the community of film camera users!
 
Souped the GP3 this evening but I'll not get a chance to scan it till the weekend. I've got a few rolls needing finished and developed so I'll have a scanning marathon... Can't wait...

There are 12 frames there so nothing went seriously wrong and they look, for the most part, correctly exposed.
 
Thanks Steven. I set the first exposure using my X10 as a lightmeter and then doing various mental calculations; it stayed set (1/50 at f/8 I think) for all but the last shot.
 
excalibur2 said:
If Asda did dev and scan for 120 film for £3 (like 35mm) while you shop, I wouldn't bother much with 35mm ;) Just think of Asda's low scan of about 1800dpi scanning 120...... it would be of very good quality :thumbs:
The fuji dev and scanning machines can handle 120 but no one cares. :'(
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120 film is still being well used, just not on the high street. It's a shame, but the cost for the mask likely puts off high street processors who won't see a return on their investment.

Many high street dev machines will process 120 C-41 film if the correct transporter is used (the plastic sheet that leads the film through the processor). At the very least, you would then have your film processed. Flat bed scanning is the lowest cost home solution, but this does introduce softening (through the glass) and, with the scanner head being the moving part, movement to the scans.

I picked up a Mamiya 645 Pro with a host of lenses, polaroid back..etc.. and a Canon 9950 scanner about 10 years ago. It was a good setup, but needed silverfast to make the most of the scanner. Since moving jobs, I tend to use the Fuji Frontier or the Imacon 949 for my medium format shots now.

1800x1800px scans are great. Can't knock the 1:1 quality at 6" square. You can even get good 8" square prints from the scans (as long as its not fine detail like a crop field).


Chris.
 
ccimaging said:
120 film is still being well used, just not on the high street. It's a shame, but the cost for the mask likely puts off high street processors who won't see a return on their investment.

Many high street dev machines will process 120 C-41 film if the correct transporter is used (the plastic sheet that leads the film through the processor). At the very least, you would then have your film processed. Flat bed scanning is the lowest cost home solution, but this does introduce softening (through the glass) and, with the scanner head being the moving part, movement to the scans.

I picked up a Mamiya 645 Pro with a host of lenses, polaroid back..etc.. and a Canon 9950 scanner about 10 years ago. It was a good setup, but needed silverfast to make the most of the scanner. Since moving jobs, I tend to use the Fuji Frontier or the Imacon 949 for my medium format shots now.

1800x1800px scans are great. Can't knock the 1:1 quality at 6" square. You can even get good 8" square prints from the scans (as long as its not fine detail like a crop field).


Chris.
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I found someone local who would dev 120 for £3 but he wasn't happy as he said something about having to clean the rollers on the Konica machine after dev 35mm. And finally told me he didn't want to do 120 anymore.
Shame as I said "you might at least get a lot of work locally from the lomo crowd for starters" :shrug:
 
And he might have tempted people from Asda for all their processing. Sometimes little firms are their own worst enemy.
 
steveo_mcg said:
And he might have tempted people from Asda for all their processing. Sometimes little firms are their own worst enemy.
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Well I had some sympathy for him as it was a place where he does wedding photos etc and I suppose that's where the money is and would think he dev and prints 35mm for some customers....for loose change. :shrug:
 
I have a cheap ETRS on ebay at the moment.

I don't know what the rules are on this so I won't post a link. PM if interested.

And if this is against the rules too, I will not be offended if this post is deleted.


Steve.
 
I mentioned above that steveo_mcg lent me his Ikonta when I was in Edinburgh recently, and gave me a film, and processed and scanned it (I think I owe him a beer!). He sent me the results earlier this week; at first I thought there was nothing there worth having, but later realised that they were just too grey and needed to be lightened up. No artistic masterpieces, but here are a couple:

1) Looking across to Old Town under Salisbury Crags (in the snow, obviously!)

ChrisGP3009.jpg


2) Looking across St Margaret's Loch, in Holyrood Park

ChrisGP3005.jpg


They seem to me to have come out rather well! I think the experience did rather put me off a folder though (that and messing up my one shot on Loretta!). Thanks Steven
 
What was it about the folding camera you didn't like?

The deciding factor for me is usually the quality of the viewfinder. Some are great and others are terrible.


Steve.
 
Yes, the view finder was part of it. The results are a lot better than I expected, I must say. But the view finder was tiny and a bit vague about what exactly was covered. I couldn't see the rangefinder patch at all, so I did any focusing by eye (which actually means all the shots bar one were set at infinity, I think).

I also didn't like the wind-on knob and staring at the little red window trying to stop in the right place (found the window hard to open and close, so it stayed open most of the time, covered by your nice leather case).

I did like the wonderful engineered feel of the whole thing, and its smallness. Saw Andysnap take Loretta the Nettar out of his coat pocket at the TP meet last Saturday, and got a little twinge from that.

It was really brilliant having a loan of it, and it's helped a great deal. Thanks again, Steven!
 
ChrisR said:
I mentioned above that steveo_mcg lent me his Ikonta when I was in Edinburgh recently, and gave me a film, and processed and scanned it (I think I owe him a beer!). He sent me the results earlier this week; at first I thought there was nothing there worth having, but later realised that they were just too grey and needed to be lightened up. No artistic masterpieces, but here are a couple:

1) Looking across to Old Town under Salisbury Crags (in the snow, obviously!)



2) Looking across St Margaret's Loch, in Holyrood Park


They seem to me to have come out rather well! I think the experience did rather put me off a folder though (that and messing up my one shot on Loretta!). Thanks Steven
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They've come up nicely. I contend, for the price GP3, is a good film and after its been rolled up for a couple of days stays flat enough not be scanned ok.

They flat dull grey is just the way I scan them, it gets the full range from the negative but needs a little help to get a decent image.
 
They look great steveo_mcg.

Do you scan them in 16bit rgb and then use your preferred method to convert to B&W?

It's often a topic for discussion here (that and 'during scan' USM and dust/scratch removal), but I tend to favour scanning in rgb as the scanners we use are inherently colour devices. I prefer to convert to black and white using the method that suits the image best.

On processing 120, I'm not sure I really understand the issue with the Konica machine (though lab machinery has distinct idiosyncrasies) as C-41 film, 35mm or 120, is the same emulsion (per product) requiring the same process. Beyond daily cleaning/ maintenance, additional cleaning is required if you cross process a large amount of films... but it doesn't sound like this was the case.

Pricing is always a difficult issue. Before digital, 120 was seen as a more professional format used by people who wanted greater detail from their images. It didn't have the market share that 35mm had, so it was supported less ubiquitously. As with all things, availability and demand dictate costs.

Today, larger stores and supermarkets control many of our buying habits. One trip to the market will show you rows of empty stalls where clothes sellers use to be; people now preferring to buy low cost clothing in shops like Primark and so on. A slew of high street closures over recent months is indicative of our changing methods of consumption.

'While you wait' supermarket processing is not the goal of the supermarket, it just creates additional incentive to shop in a single store for all of your needs. £3.00 dev and scan on 35mm film is very cheap and the lack of support for 120 film shows that commitment isn't to photographers, rather a 'bone' thrown to people who still shoot 35mm film.

I know several high street processors in Leeds who have closed due to a change in photographic habits together with a 'why pay more' mind set pushed by those companies who stack high and sell cheap. The reality is that offering a comprehensive service requires a lot of investment and a team of dedicated staff. When large companies from an unrelated market begin to undercut independents' specialist services, albeit offering limited services, smaller companies can compete up to a point.

The result, as we have seen, is a reduction in service options due to the closure of independent specialists. The larger companies don't wish to invest in comprehensive services as it's not their main goal and niche services will never meet their profitability margins.

Wow, sorry about the wall of text.

tl;dr?

With costs going up across the board, we will never see comprehensive photographic services at 'loss leading' prices from large chain stores. If you want something specific or bespoke, it's going to cost more. Will independents offering these services be supported? Customers will vote with their wallets.
 
ccimaging said:
They look great steveo_mcg.

Do you scan them in 16bit rgb and then use your preferred method to convert to B&W?

It's often a topic for discussion here (that and 'during scan' USM and dust/scratch removal), but I tend to favour scanning in rgb as the scanners we use are inherently colour devices. I prefer to convert to black and white using the method that suits the image best.
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Cheers, but Chris done the hard work. Yeah I scanned them using a method suggested here, which is to scan in colour, make sure I select the whole histogram and then either convert or just use one channel if its noticeable better. After that some PP to get the best contrast.
 
ChrisR said:
There just might be a folder and/or a TLR down at my sister's in Somerset packed in boxes from my parents' house, but I'm finding it hard to get down there. My sister said that the person helping her to move the stuff told her they weren't worth anything and she should throw them away; she can't remember if she did!:bang::bang::bang:
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Finally, finally got down to my sister's, and we explored the "den" where the stuff from our parents' house was rapidly moved after my sister's house started a slow collapse process (part of the reason why I couldn't visit before; the whole house had to be emptied as the front wall was strengthened and the roof rebuilt!). The den is still the sort of mess where you heap things in rapidly and then move them around a bit looking for stuff. We couldn't find any cameras (although one or more might still be there), but we did find a wooden box with some 6*9 colour transparencies and black and white negatives from the 1930s-40s. I'm going to take these away with me and scan some. At least it gives me the excuse to get a scanner that will handle MF, as well as the justification for actually spending something on a MF camera in due course.

Usual sort of dithering going on; I have fleabay searches for Bronica SQ, Fuji 645 (not sure I could get on with default portrait mode though), Mamiya 6 and Minolta Autocord!
 
Don't forget Pentax 645. It's a nice system. I've also standard lenses for it in the classifieds ;)
 
A rather broad search Chris - 6x6 SLRs, 6x4.5 RF, 6x6 TLR, 6x6 RF? Any particular reason why, or mind not made up?

I just ask because specifically deciding on one or two categories might help your hunt.
 
Brian, I don't know much about the Pentax 645... as a Pentax man I ought to be a fan, but the only pic I've seen (on Ken R@ckwell's site) loooked pretty big and bulky to me...

FC2, yes quite an eclectic mix, my mind is definitely not made up! I'm drawn towards 6*6 as the square format has appeal. I'm interested in a waist-level finder as a very different experience than 35mm SLRs, hence the TLR and SQ inclusion. I'm interested in the rangefinder idea (even though my first approach, with a Canonet, didn't go well, partly because of the fiddly focus lever under the lens), hence the Mamiya 6; IQ is also said to be very good indeed. But it's VERY expensive. The Fuji is a candidate despite being 645 and portrait default format, as it is said to be light, affordable and also very good IQ.

I'm hoping to persuade some of those coming to the Welsh meet to bring some samples for me to fondle, not with a view to purchase, but particularly for the ergonomics/ affordance given my slight manual disability.

As it happens I've just bought a 35mm lens, and need to get a MF scanner for my late father's photos; this may mean my 120 venture gets delayed while finances recover!
 
Hi Chris. Having used various 120 combinations over the last 12 months I can give you some pro's/con's for each from my own feelings;


Fuji GA645 - 6x4.5 Pretty much fully automatic/metered;

Pros - Very sharp lens right across the negative, light, simple to use (pretty much point and shoot), easy to load, autofocus is pretty fast, relatively unobtrusive as MF cameras go as it just looks like a big digital camera, default portrait orientation is unique and not a bad thing.

Cons - Almost TOO easy to shoot which can feel a bit 'boring'!, quite noisy AF, difficult to repair if faults occur due to being mainly electronic, expensive for little manual control, manual focus is electronic in distance steps rather than a controlled focus. Even with the Cons listed here I've still got a saved search in EBay for another one ;0)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevelloyd/sets/72157633657525080/


Kowa Six - 6x6 full manual, no metering;

Pros - Standard 85/2.8 lens is very sharp, Styling is great and certainly stands out, WLF is very bright, relatively compact (no bellows/extending front), I liked the handling although it may be a bit 'marmite', easy to load. I liked it so much I took it on our family holiday to fuertaventura (to my wife's dismay!)

Cons - Expensive and hard to find, rarity makes repairs harder, heavy for a relatively small camera, chrome lenses stand out, can't swap film mid-roll (no removable back).

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=8476499@N02&q=Kowa


Yashica MAT TLR - 6x6 full manual, no meter;

Pros - Sharp 80mm 3.5 lens, light, easy to handle, focus screen is quite bright, frame lines drawn on the focus screen, easy to load, wind on and cock shutter with one handle, classic styling, new leather kit is cheap, pretty common so easy to find on eBay. Cheaper than the 124G with meter built in and I use a light meter app on my iPhone instead.

Cons - General purpose camera so may not be in great physical condition, very complex internal winding/cocking mechanism which can jam, WLF can show low contrast outside so the magnifier is the better option (built in), can't change films mid-roll.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevelloyd/sets/72157634686250637/


Mamiya 645 Pro TL - 6x4.5 Autoexposure metering

Pros - AE metering so can shoot in aperture priority so pretty much a MF DSLR, exposure compensation built in, film loading/winding is motorised so fast although I messed up the loading twice so Hooley'd 2 rolls which annoyed me! Prism finder is easy to use and sharp for manual focussing, handles most like a 'traditional' medium format camera, loads of them available so easy to find, mirror lockup which helps with long exposures, lots of lenses to choose from, replaceable backs can be changed mid-roll.

Cons - Weight makes handling awkward until you get used to it, loading film is easy to cock up (see above), Winder and meter relies on batteries so could go flat when shooting.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=8476499@N02&q=Mamiya

(That's a C41 roll I cross processed in B&W chemicals so not the best example of contrast etc)


Agfa Isolette 2 - 6x6 full manual folder, no meter;

Pros - Very small and light folder, pretty basic so not a lot to go wrong, cheap and readily available, unobtrusive.

Cons - Focus by distance which is ok for landscapes but harder for portraits or other closer work, framing isn't as easy as other cameras due to uncoupled viewfinder, lens sharpness is ok but depends on model.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=8476499@N02&q=Isolette


Ensign Selfix 20 - 6x6 full manual folder, no meter;

Pros - As above with Agfa Isolette

Cons - As above but additionally, the viewfinder is a tiny glass cube next to the front of the lens which gives a general idea of the direction you're pointing, you won't be hitting classic portraits without a lot of practise!

(Still finishing the roll in this before I can upload any examples)


Overall, out of the cameras I've shot with I think if I wanted a lazy day but still come home with some stunning negatives I'd pick the Fuii GA645 because it didn't miss a beat. If I had to pick just one MF camera to have forever I think that would be the Kowa although I was surprised how much I liked the Yashica MAT.

In a strange turn of events I've just bought a Yashica Rapide half frame which delivers the complete opposite of the huge MF negatives although I'm tempted to buy another MF camera in time for the Llandudno meet :0). If you want to know anything else about the cameras I've tried, let me know.

Cheers
Steve
 
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