Help for first time DSLR buyer

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Davey_Pitch

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Hi guys, first post here :)

I'm going on holiday to Florida next year for my honeymoon, and I'm looking to get a DSLR to take with me, as my Kodak DX6490 wasn't really up to the job last time when I went in 2006. As this is probably the last time I'll go, I want to make sure I get the best pictures I can. I'm interested in the Canon 450D as the reviews it's gotten so far have been excellent. I can currently buy it for £470 from Amazon, and then get £50 cashback, making it £420 effectively. I was wondering though whether it would be worth waiting until January to see how much cheaper it may be in the sales. I'm not going for 13 months so buying the camera in Jan would still give me 7 months or so to play about with the camera and get used to it, but I want to make sure I get the best deal I can.

I know no-one can answer with any real degree of certainty, but in your educated opinions would the camera drop in price by more than £50 by January?

Thanks for any help you can give :)
 
And would you get £50 worth of enjoyment out of it between now and then?

Camera specs and prices change constantly and there comes a time when you have to just go for it. My 5D will drop dramatically when Canon launches the new one but that will not bother me one jot.

Shop about a bit for that 450D and lets see if we can't save you that £50 (or some of it) now.

Can anyone beat that price?
 
going to florida buy it out there it will be about half price as your staying 13 months no tax to pay when you bring it back you could probably get a higher model for the same money also the exchange rate is great at the moment
 
not going for 13 months if you have the money now get it exchanged while the rate is good the rest still aplies
 
dinorock said:
not going for 13 months if you have the money now get it exchanged while the rate is good the rest still aplies
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The problem is that I have no experience of DSLRs, so I'd want at least a couple of months with it before I go, so I don't miss some great photos because I can't handle the camera well enough :)
 
Whatever you do don't buy a camera solely on the basis of reviews.

Go and get a feel for the different brands and see which fit your hands in the most intuitive way.

All SLRS take good pictures, you make them great.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
The problem is that I have no experience of DSLRs, so I'd want at least a couple of months with it before I go, so I don't miss some great photos because I can't handle the camera well enough :)
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You can use most DSLRs just like point and shoot cameras as they usually have the modes compacts do.The entry level DSLRs do anyway.
 
Slapo said:
You can use most DSLRs just like point and shoot cameras as they usually have the modes compacts do.The entry level DSLRs do anyway.
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But if that is your attitude, you may as well buy a point and shoot!

No, I suggest buying now and learning the camera and learning how to use Manual. Once you know manual, the other settings will be a cinch! Chances are you'll decide you might want an extra lens or two in a few months time too ;) The price won't drop very much as it has been out for enough time to have stabilised. Check this site for good prices: http://www.camerapricebuster.com/
 
Thanks Michael, good link :) I already know I'll want a new lens in the future should I get the 450D (likely a longer zoom, maybe the 55-250 IS lens), but I could always pick that up in America as we're planning on going shopping on our first full day there. Should be able to get more for my money then :)
 
What lenses do you want as well.

A dSLR takes a bit of time to learn, so I would buy soon and get some practise with it over the rest of the summer, and by the time you go you'll be able to get better use from it.

We know prices will go down between now and christmas but if its just a cost saving exercise you could probably buy it at the airport tax free, but then you've got nothing to practise with.
 
Could just get a superzoom? Canon S5 IS. 12x zoom. IMHO you'll be pushed to spot the difference initially unless you are willing to buy L glass.
 
petemc said:
Could just get a superzoom? Canon S5 IS. 12x zoom. IMHO you'll be pushed to spot the difference initially unless you are willing to buy L glass.
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I considered that, and I considered a bridge camera like the Panasonic FZ50 as well. I always felt like other alternatives were a compromise. The S5 has no RAW mode and noise at higher ISOs. The bridge cameras have RAW mode but often suffer from noise and CA. I know the DSLRs can also suffer from these problems, but it seems to be much less of an issue, with the added bonus of an increase in IQ (especially if I could ever afford L glass). I do know that it's the photographer who can turn a good image into a great picture, but I just don't want to be limited or restricted by my equipment (within reason obviously, I can't afford thousands on top quality gear!). I'm happy to receive any and all advice though, so if people think I'm being silly going for a DSLR, then feel free to tell me so! :D
 
I don't think you're being silly - if you got a 400D or 450D with the 18-55 and 50-250 IS lenses, you'd be delighted I'm sure. As many other people have said though, try and get to a camera shop, and try out cameras from the big brands - Sony, Pentax, Samsung, Nikon, & Canon.

You have most choice of accessories for Canon and Nikon cameras, but they're also the only ones that don't have anti-camera-shake built in to the camera bodies, so to get it, you need to buy lenses with it built in.
 
tbh if you want a slr it's either canon or nikon. Best low noise at high ISO, lenses, etc. Anti shake is good but it's only 1 feature IMHO. Nikon or canon.
 
petemc said:
tbh if you want a slr it's either canon or nikon. Best low noise at high ISO, lenses, etc. Anti shake is good but it's only 1 feature IMHO. Nikon or canon.
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Nikon or Canon - 1 reason

You buy a system, not a camera.

Once you choose your camera, you will be buying all the stuff that goes with it, and Nikon and Canon has the biggest range - flashes, lenses, remote...etc. If you buy other manufactureres, and if you do expand into the realm of photography, you will find yourself "stuck".

So, Nikon or Canon.

Then think of a budget, try out 2 cameras. One just below your budget, one just above. See if its worth it in both in your hands, personally i would go for something slightly more money as it removes that urge of upgrading.
 
petemc are you basing that on experience? The Pentax K10D and K20D are great cameras. They're the only ones I've played with apart from Canon & Nikon. Pentax have also released some great lenses. I forgot to mention Panasonic & Olympus, but I'm not so keen on the 4:3 format, which also causes more noise as the sensors are smaller.
 
Wow, such strong feelings for Nikon & Canon. I'm surprised. If you want the best flashes, then you wouldn't get Canon anyway - Quantum are the tops, and Metz make some mean ones as well. As far as things like remotes go, meh, most people get eBay jobs anyway....

Unless you're planning on getting into it massively, Pentax, Samsung, and Sony will all offer you enough.
 
goatee said:
Wow, such strong feelings for Nikon & Canon. I'm surprised. If you want the best flashes, then you wouldn't get Canon anyway - Quantum are the tops, and Metz make some mean ones as well. As far as things like remotes go, meh, most people get eBay jobs anyway....

Unless you're planning on getting into it massively, Pentax, Samsung, and Sony will all offer you enough.
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When film cameras was king, Minolta made REALLY good bodies, but there was no way I would get one because Canon and Nikon just have more selection of lenses. Why choose something that limit yourself in the long run?

When you choose to upgrade your camera later, Canon and Nikon brings out new cameras every year, with Canon and Nikon you just upgrade and keep all your lenses. Sure that Pentax and Sony are making more lenses, but they are slow in coming them out, not "proven" and more expensive than Canon and Nikon equivalent. So why not choose a system that already have all these lenses for you to choose from?

I know that Davey might not get into Photography in a big way and for snaps anyone of them are fine. But personally i would think LONG TERM, since he is getting a SLR anyway, get something that has more support and "future proof".
 
goatee said:
Wow, such strong feelings for Nikon & Canon. I'm surprised. If you want the best flashes, then you wouldn't get Canon anyway - Quantum are the tops, and Metz make some mean ones as well. As far as things like remotes go, meh, most people get eBay jobs anyway....

Unless you're planning on getting into it massively, Pentax, Samsung, and Sony will all offer you enough.
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Such strong feelings from all 2 of us... In my professional experience, yes it's only Nikon or Canon. If you're going to be silly why not recommend the new 50mp medium format? If you're not getting into it massively then a bridge camera is fine. But Davey has said he wants a dslr. So, IMHO Canon or Nikon.
 
For someone who is thinking they may want to go into it very seriously, then Nikon & Canon are the strongest options. . .

Should a consumer write off all the other makes "just in case"? On that point we'll agree to disagree ;).
 
I would never tell someone to get a dslr that wasn't a nikon or canon. There's just no point as you're buying into a system not a body. They have great upgrade routes for all walks of life. Proven in various industries. The others have got 5-10 years to catch up and prove themselves. Dslr's are a system not just a body.
 
You're right of course, but what percentage of people actually buy more of the system than is provided for by the likes of Pentax / Samsung, Sony / Minolta?

Most people want a walkabout lens, and a telephoto, and some even get a flash. . . The aftermarket manufacturers make a great range of superb lenses / flashes for many makes. Why limit a consumer level photographer if a camera from another manufacturer fits the bill better for them?

petemc said:
I would never tell someone to get a dslr that wasn't a nikon or canon. There's just no point as you're buying into a system not a body. They have great upgrade routes for all walks of life. Proven in various industries. The others have got 5-10 years to catch up and prove themselves. Dslr's are a system not just a body.
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Do you work for pentax? Oh now come on, just how am I limiting davey by recommending the two largest dslr companies with lenses from 4-1200mm, the best flash system and used by 90% of pro dslr users worldwide? Stop being really silly.
 
goatee said:
You're right of course, but what percentage of people actually buy more of the system than is provided for by the likes of Pentax / Samsung, Sony / Minolta?
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The question is - Why restrict yourself ? :thinking:

Getting Canon or Nikon gives you so much more freedom in the long run.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The question is - Why restrict yourself ? :thinking:

Getting Canon or Nikon gives you so much more freedom in the long run.
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I'd agree Nikon or Canon and there's so much more 2'nd user kit available and a much bigger target for selling kit on if / when you want to upgrade.
 
I've just got one of these too!

I looked about the internet but settled for this http://www.jessops.com/Store/s74764.../Canon/EOS-450D-Twin-Lens-Bundle/details.aspx I walked into a shop, talked to a human and walked out happy...

I didn't have to wait or pay for a delivery and if i ever get a problem i know where to go and SHOUT!

Yeah, the prices will deffo drop but with the £50 cashback i'm happy...

I just have to learn to use the damn thing now?


Mike
 
My final word on the matter is :razz:

:lol: ok, fine we all have valid opinions. Would I be ok if I hadn't bought Canon or Nikon? Weeeeeeeeell, my flash (other than the 580EXII I'm selling) is Metz, and 2 out of 3 lenses are Sigma. I would have to manage without my 1D Mkii and 24-70 though. Sod Nikon, Canon all the way :D.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
I'd agree Nikon or Canon and there's so much more 2'nd user kit available and a much bigger target for selling kit on if / when you want to upgrade.
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That too, good luck trying buying/selling get a secondhand pentax or Sony lens secondhand or sell a Pentax or Sony in the classfield.
 
petemc, Raymond Lin, how exactly are the other brands so limiting?

I mean, sure, Nikon does have its CLS and Canon its L lenses, but if the OP doesn't intend to go pro, but maybe semi-pro at most, then the other systems don't seem to be THAT limiting. They have their own flashes, lenses at least in the range of 18-300 mm with 3rd party manufacturers allowing them to stretch that at both ends, the flash range expands as well.
You're most likely to buy filters from brands such as Cokin, Hitech, Lee or something else.

If the OP's going to buy a 18-250 mm 'vacation' lens and some less extreme zooms to get better optical and build quality, then it almost doesn't matter which system he'll go for.
Olympus seems to have pretty good kit lenses, so does Pentax and Panasonic (OK, they come with pretty expensive Leica glass, but it's still 4/3). Nikon's and Canon's own, particularly the VR/IS versions got kind of good too, from what I've seen, although Nikon's non-IS versions of the 18-55 and 18-70 mm lenses were OK.

Most pros I've seen do use Canon or Nikon, but I've seen at least one Olympus pro (a wedding tog) and her customers (friends of mine) were happy with the results.

What's to be aware of then buying into the 4/3 is noise at ISO 800+ and prices of wide angle and telephoto zooms. Telephoto primes are expensive no matter which brand you'll go with.

Pentax has pancake primes which some people love (see the dpreview Pentax forums for reference). The last time I've seen the prices of their zooms I was surprised how expensive they were, but maybe I've been looking at wrong places.

Sony has Zeiss glass and its own. Both seems to be a bit more expensive than their Nikon/Canon counterparts while not being necessarily better, but their range is getting wider and closer to that of Nikon and Canon. There's older Minolta glass you can use with Sony's DSLRs if you want to save - even though I've heard some of it is getting more expensive by the day.

If you get a Samsung DSLR, you're pretty much in the same position as if you got a Pentax, although I'm not sure their flash system is also compatible.

The alternatives are worth exploring. It's better if you know what EXACTLY you need, though.

Besides, using a DSLR the way you would use a superzoom (a. k. a. bridge camera) is possible and can be better - you can change the lenses if you need better quality/more speed, you get better ISO performance and you get to play with DOF more. That's not something to be overlooked either.
 
You say all that and all I think is "Its not Canon or Nikon (or Fuji)." I'm sorry but you can list all the reasons you want for all the other brands but the simple fact is that Nikon and Canon have all the kit an amateur / pro needs. Cheap and expensive addons. Why confuse people with all sorts of options? "Oh this is good, to a limit. This is ok too but..." Its just so easy. DSLR, Canon or Nikon. Done, enjoy.
 
Slapo said:
petemc, Raymond Lin, how exactly are the other brands so limiting?

I mean, sure, Nikon does have its CLS and Canon its L lenses, but if the OP doesn't intend to go pro, but maybe semi-pro at most, then the other systems don't seem to be THAT limiting. They have their own flashes, lenses at least in the range of 18-300 mm with 3rd party manufacturers allowing them to stretch that at both ends, the flash range expands as well.
You're most likely to buy filters from brands such as Cokin, Hitech, Lee or something else.

If the OP's going to buy a 18-250 mm 'vacation' lens and some less extreme zooms to get better optical and build quality, then it almost doesn't matter which system he'll go for.
Olympus seems to have pretty good kit lenses, so does Pentax and Panasonic (OK, they come with pretty expensive Leica glass, but it's still 4/3). Nikon's and Canon's own, particularly the VR/IS versions got kind of good too, from what I've seen, although Nikon's non-IS versions of the 18-55 and 18-70 mm lenses were OK.

Most pros I've seen do use Canon or Nikon, but I've seen at least one Olympus pro (a wedding tog) and her customers (friends of mine) were happy with the results.

What's to be aware of then buying into the 4/3 is noise at ISO 800+ and prices of wide angle and telephoto zooms. Telephoto primes are expensive no matter which brand you'll go with.

Pentax has pancake primes which some people love (see the dpreview Pentax forums for reference). The last time I've seen the prices of their zooms I was surprised how expensive they were, but maybe I've been looking at wrong places.

Sony has Zeiss glass and its own. Both seems to be a bit more expensive than their Nikon/Canon counterparts while not being necessarily better, but their range is getting wider and closer to that of Nikon and Canon. There's older Minolta glass you can use with Sony's DSLRs if you want to save - even though I've heard some of it is getting more expensive by the day.

If you get a Samsung DSLR, you're pretty much in the same position as if you got a Pentax, although I'm not sure their flash system is also compatible.

The alternatives are worth exploring. It's better if you know what EXACTLY you need, though.

Besides, using a DSLR as the way you would use a superzoom (a. k. a. bridge camera) is possible and can be better - you can change the lenses if you need better quality/more speed, you get better ISO performance and you get to play with DOF more. That's not something to be overlooked either.
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I've highlighted the reasons you gave for and against.

Getting Canon or Nikon removes any of these problems..............why go elsewhere? It's cheaper, more support in terms of selection, 2ndhand market, online and highstreet, more future proof.

Or you can get a Sony, hoping that they will bring out that 14mm fish eye that you want to play with after seeing some photos of it from a Canon online. You wait and you wait, then about 5 years down the line you could be still waiting.

The ONLY reason people get Pentax or Sony is because they like their bodies, and thought 1 lens will do. Not thinking or realising how deep the photography bug might bite.

If the bug bites hard, you are stuff, if the bug doesn't bite then no harm at all having either Canon or Nikon. You can sell it and there are more people who will buy it off you than if you sell a Pentax or Sony. That is a not my opinion, that is reality.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The ONLY reason people get Pentax or Sony is because they like their bodies, and thought 1 lens will do. Not thinking or realising how deep the photography bug might bite.
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Agreed. "But dear this one is cheaper and has similar numbers on the lens."
 
When I was looking at them recently, the K100D Super and A200 were either cheaper than similarly positioned Nikon/Canon bodies, it was the same if I counted a kit lens in.

You do have a point, Nikon and Canon do offer more when you look at the entire system, but how many people use more than 2-3 lenses (or carry more than that in their bag) most of the time? Sure, a fisheye lens can be nice, but unless you feel arty, do you really use it?

All I'm saying is that even though non-Nikon/Canon systems aren't as well featured, if you're on a budget and don't want to go beyond semi-pro (as in occasionally earning money with your photo gear), the other ones ARE interesting. If you're on a budget, you're likely to use 3rd party lenses from Sigma and Tamron anyway... some do even if they aren't.

Sure, if you want to go pro and need the extra touch, you might hit a brick wall at full speed if you don't go with Nikon/Canon, but there are many people who know they won't go pro.
 
If you're on a budget get a bridge camera and then wait. If you're on a budget why do you need a DSLR?
 
Slapo said:
When I was looking at them recently, the K100D Super and A200 were either cheaper than similarly positioned Nikon/Canon bodies, it was the same if I counted a kit lens in.

You do have a point, Nikon and Canon do offer more when you look at the entire system, but how many people use more than 2-3 lenses (or carry more than that in their bag) most of the time? Sure, a fisheye lens can be nice, but unless you feel arty, do you really use it?

All I'm saying is that even though non-Nikon/Canon systems aren't as well featured, if you're on a budget and don't want to go beyond semi-pro (as in occasionally earning money with your photo gear), the other ones ARE interesting. If you're on a budget, you're likely to use 3rd party lenses from Sigma and Tamron anyway... some do even if they aren't.

Sure, if you want to go pro and need the extra touch, you might hit a brick wall at full speed if you don't go with Nikon/Canon, but there are many people who know they won't go pro.
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Like I said on the last page.

Why restrict yourself ?
 
petemc said:
If you're on a budget get a bridge camera and then wait. If you're on a budget why do you need a DSLR?
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I wrote this before

Slapo said:
Besides, using a DSLR the way you would use a superzoom (a. k. a. bridge camera) is possible and can be better - you can change the lenses if you need better quality/more speed, you get better ISO performance and you get to play with DOF more. That's not something to be overlooked either.
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Slapo said:
Because you might not feel the restrictions if you don't go pro or nutty and get a bit better value for the money if you don't plan on investing too much.
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How do you know what a year down the line you will think or want? I bet the OP didn't think he wanted an SLR when he bought the Kodak (or whatever it was) when he got it.
 
Canon or Nikon without a doubt.

However, most importantly missing from this thread is the main thing. Get the body before you go!!!!

The warranty for a body bought in the USA would be restricted to the USA - same here in Europe. However, the lenses have worldwide warranty so you're fine going there.

Hold out for a while too - Canon are launching a new model, Canon EOS 1000D. The 450D is a better spec camera however.
 
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