Help! Do I give the originals to a wedding client?

J13ERO

J13ERO

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James
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Evening folks!

A few weeks ago I photographed my first wedding and I am very happy with the post processed results, I will be meeting with the clients tomorrow evening to give them the results! My question is... Should I or should I not give them the originals? I currently have a hard drive that they gave me to put the photos on and Ive put both edits and originals on but after a quick google ive found that a lot of people argue that you shouldn't?

Help! Thanks, James :)
 
Danny, there are a considerable number more originals than there are edits my thinking was that if there are any they liked that I haven't edited because I didn't like them or think they were up to scratch then they could send me the photo number and I would happily edit it for them
 
If you send them all the files you'll create a rod for your own back with them asking why you've not edited this or that, then they will be asking about any you might have screwed up etc...just don't do it, as it will open up a lot more extra work for you...

Also make sure you've renamed/numbered all files so that it's not obvious files are missing otherwise they will then question this also
 
You're giving them the finished product, not your clippings/scrapped images etc. If I buy a cake from the bakery, I don't want to be given a bag of left over flour, egg shells etc. I want the finished product and that's what you should be giving your client. As above, rename all images in order so there's an unbroken sequence.
 
What if there's some that they like but I don't though?
 
If they don't see them they will never know.

They won't have been noting every time you pressed the shutter.

Just pick the best you have selected. Have confidence in your own judgement. Thats what they are paying you for...your skills as a photographer, which is much much more than someone pressing the shutter.
 
Oh and if you have put images on the hard drive and deleted them don't forget how easy it is for them to retrieve deleted images.

Reformat the drive and then put the selected images on, otherwise they might just ask the question, why?
 
shreds said:
Oh and if you have put images on the hard drive and deleted them don't forget how easy it is for them to retrieve deleted images.

Reformat the drive and then put the selected images on, otherwise they might just ask the question, why?
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Reformat won't do diddly squat... you need to do a bit wipe and a couple of times eg 0 all the bits....
 
I'm sure most people wouldn't know how to recover deleted files from a hard drive?!
 
if the originals are in raw format they won't be able to do jack with them anyway
 
J13ERO said:
Danny, there are a considerable number more originals than there are edits my thinking was that if there are any they liked that I haven't edited because I didn't like them or think they were up to scratch then they could send me the photo number and I would happily edit it for them
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I see what you're thinking but I think you just need to select and edit the shots you like and cull the rest - be confident in the fact that you're the photographer and you have an eye for what makes the final cut and what gets binned.

As has been said above, what they don't see, they can't miss. Giving edited files and then the also rans will only lead to confusion.
 
As has been said if they don't know about them they will not miss them, you've asked for advice, you've got pretty much the same advice from everyone, the seasoned pros and or those that have been here long enough to have seen these threads before over and over...

Ultimately it's down to your choice show them the files, don't show them the files, but given that pretty much universally you've been told don't show them, If you do go ahead and show them all the files, and this then creates either hastle or loads of extra work you'll not get a lot of sympathy :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
J13ERO said:
What if there's some that they like but I don't though?
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How many files are you delivering if it's just the 'finished' ones?

If you've processed fifty out of a thousand, have a rethink, it's probably not enough.

If you've processed between 300 and 700 out of 800-2000, the culling process is part of your artistic workflow. If you didn't deem the images worthy, then they should never be seen, you've already decided.

At the end of the day, you have to deliver enough finished images to justify your presence. That might be 200 if you were only there 3hrs, but more like the figures above if you were there all day.
 
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J13ERO said:
What if there's some that they like but I don't though?
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You seem to be arguing your case as though you want to give them the unedited photos ?

If you've shot your first wedding, and being given advice by experiences wedding photographers, I'd take their advice without question.

What good can come from showing a bride unedited, unflattering photos of herself? Giving her nice retouched ones won't make up for the fact that she now thinks she really looked like crap (if shot in RAW).
 
From the other side, the guy who did my wedding didn't include a couple of group shots in his original cull, it wasn't till I pressed he sent me the unedited files for the groups and I managed to get a shot that was important to us but was a cull to the photographer. Just because he/she has hired a pro doesn't mean they don't know their way round light room and doesn't understand about editing etc. Besides they're the customer and the customer is always right ;)
 
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steveo_mcg said:
From the other side, the guy who did my wedding didn't include a couple of group shots in his original cull, it wasn't till I pressed he sent me the unedited files for the groups and I managed to get a shot that was important to us but was a cull to the photographer. Just because he/she has hired a pro doesn't mean they don't know their way round light room and doesn't understand about editing etc. Besides they're the customer and the customer is always right ;)
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He was an idiot! You can't simply miss delivering a group.
 
Make sure your file numbers are all sequential, i.e. IMG_0001 then IMG_0002 0003 and so on, dont let there look like there are gaps in the numbers after you've done your culling.
 
Refer to the written contract and what you've agreed to provide which is what the client had agreed to pay for.

Of course, it's your first wedding and in the excitement of getting a commission you forgot that bit.. .. ;)
 
steveo_mcg said:
My point is he may have missed something and the client maybe has some photographic experience.
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My point was your photographer was an idiot.
There shouldn't be a point where the 'hired professional' is less competent than the customer.
 
Phil V said:
My point was your photographer was an idiot.
There shouldn't be a point where the 'hired professional' is less competent than the customer.
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Perhaps, perhaps he lacked experience. Perhaps sometimes the customer does actually know best, way out thought I know...
 
steveo_mcg said:
Perhaps, perhaps he lacked experience. Perhaps sometimes the customer does actually know best, way out thought I know...
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if the customer wanted something in particular as an important shot then they should have specified that at contract agreement - if they didnt they can't blame the tog for missing it (although missing an entire group is a bit odd ) - personally I'd never provide a customer with unedited shots - if they came back to me because there wasnt a picture of great aunt flo then i'd post process a shot of her before it went to the customer.

providing unedited original files is how you end up in a DM article about the countries worst photographers
 
steveo_mcg said:
My point is he may have missed something and the client maybe has some photographic experience.
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This is actually also a fair point. As its his first wedding he probably does not yet have the experience of knowing what is and isnt a shot worth keeping.

Personally i will kill a shot if its , technically useless for some reason ie blurred / misfired flash or that it features just one person and they have their eyes closed or have a really unflattering look etc

Otherwise edit what you want to edit and think will benefit from editing BUT dont just cull shots because they dont fit your artistic slant or what your trying to project as a photographer, remember there are many family members and moments that may have importance that you do not realize, there is no problem with including lots of what you may class as more average shots , do the basics that needs doing editing wise and leave them in.

Also its a good idea if your going to do a black and white or a heavy edit to include the standard version too so they have both for future use.

You can guarantee even if you number them again and delete loads that someone is going to remember a particualr shot you took and wonder where it is - this all again comes down to experience , taking a portrait or group shot on the day ? then you should be taking three of each at least to make sure there's a shot without blinking etc

As has already been mentioned if your going to ask the question then listen to the answers , we have been doing this for years and know the pitfalls !
 
big soft moose said:
if the customer wanted something in particular as an important shot then they should have specified that at contract agreement - if they didnt they can't blame the tog for missing it (although missing an entire group is a bit odd ) - personally I'd never provide a customer with unedited shots - if they came back to me because there wasnt a picture of great aunt flo then i'd post process a shot of her before it went to the customer.

providing unedited original files is how you end up in a DM article about the countries worst photographers
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Working to rule and only providing what is written would be a short trip to unemployment in my industry.

But that s a fair point he probably should have edited the shots before sending them on despite my assurances that I was more than capable.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Working to rule and only providing what is written would be a short trip to unemployment in my industry.

But that s a fair point he probably should have edited the shots before sending them on despite my assurances that I was more than capable.
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I'd usually aim to over deliver certainly - but my contract does provide that i can't guarantee to get a shot of every person present - you have to have something like that to cover your arse when the grooms rugby freinds head straight to the bar after the service and are absent for the group shots , or great aunt flo decides its too cold outside or whatever. Its not about working to rule, its about not being held to unreasonable demands.

In your case its hard to say without all the facts, but in general if a client particularly wants a certain person (other than the obvious B/G parents, bridesmaids , best man) included then they need to say so because a tog can't be held accountable for not getting a shot he didnt know he had to get.

As regards the OP i'd say just present your selection, so long as its a reasonable number - however don't delete the originals (unless blurred or otherwise substandard) until after the client has said they are happy, so that if they do say 'oh we really wanted one of great aunt marge you can forage through your originals for a suitable shot - the post process it before presenting it as an extra
 
big soft moose said:
I'd usually aim to over deliver certainly - but my contract does provide that i can't guarantee to get a shot of every person present - you have to have something like that to cover your arse when the grooms rugby freinds head straight to the bar after the service and are absent for the group shots , or great aunt flo decides its too cold outside or whatever. Its not about working to rule, its about not being held to unreasonable demands.

In your case its hard to say without all the facts, but in general if a client particularly wants a certain person (other than the obvious B/G parents, bridesmaids , best man) included then they need to say so because a tog can't be held accountable for not getting a shot he didnt know he had to get.

As regards the OP i'd say just present your selection, so long as its a reasonable number - however don't delete the originals (unless blurred or otherwise substandard) until after the client has said they are happy, so that if they do say 'oh we really wanted one of great aunt marge you can forage through your originals for a suitable shot - the post process it before presenting it as an extra
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Thats fair enough.

In my case he took the shot it just didn't meet his criteria to present, probably because one of my aunties were squinting grimacing but thats okay, she always looks like that.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Thats fair enough.

In my case he took the shot it just didn't meet his criteria to present, probably because one of my aunties were squinting grimacing but thats okay, she always looks like that.
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But he has to deliver the group, it's not 'optional' and I'm puzzled why you'd hire a photographer who knew less than you?
If I'm paying someone (rare) I'm paying for their expertise.
 
Phil V said:
But he has to deliver the group, it's not 'optional' and I'm puzzled why you'd hire a photographer who knew less than you?
If I'm paying someone (rare) I'm paying for their expertise.
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Dooes he ?

I certainly would (exceptional circumstances nowithstanding), but my contract doesnt say I have to
 
The problem I have with sending the warts and all shots is that viewers can fixate upon the ugly photo- esp when a 'pro' has taken them.

When it comes to a missing group- if it turns out that everyone is gurning in that group- put it on the disk but not the website.
You should have a list of the groups you were trying to capture so you know what you did on the day as a record.
 
Phil V said:
But he has to deliver the group, it's not 'optional' and I'm puzzled why you'd hire a photographer who knew less than you?
If I'm paying someone (rare) I'm paying for their expertise.
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Doing my own wedding would present certain logistical issues :)

The guy missed something, it happens, we opened a dialogue the problem was resolved. Its basic customer service, give good service and a client will tell a few people, give bad service and they'll tell every one.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Doing my own wedding would present certain logistical issues :)

The guy missed something, it happens, we opened a dialogue the problem was resolved. Its basic customer service, give good service and a client will tell a few people, give bad service and they'll tell every one.
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I'm not sure you understand where I'm coming from:
The guy missed something fundamental, it shouldn't have happened.
You're saying it's not a big deal, but you came here and told us all unprompted. So IMHO, the evidence suggests it's not the minor issue this post suggests.
 
Phil V said:
I'm not sure you understand where I'm coming from:
The guy missed something fundamental, it shouldn't have happened.
You're saying it's not a big deal, but you came here and told us all unprompted. So IMHO, the evidence suggests it's not the minor issue this post suggests.
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Unprompted? I offered some advice to the OP from the "other side" there is b****r all weight given to the customer in these threads just circled wagons of the wedding shooters.

My guy missed a couple of groups of people we ad hoc arranged and I chased him for. I'm happy. It might very well have been a big deal if they guy had decided to stick to his play list and only provide what we organised upfront and started being an arse, as it was we opened a dialogue and the issue was resolved. I thought my advise to the OP was clear, clearly not.

Just to be absolutely clear, from a client POV; I advise you to talk with your client and reach a mutually agreeable position don't be afraid to suggest them paying for stuff which is beyond the original spec. This is what I do all the time in my field of work.
 
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steveo_mcg said:
Just to be absolutely clear, from a client POV; I advise you to talk with your client and reach a mutually agreeable position don't be afraid to suggest them paying for stuff which is beyond the original spec. This is what I do all the time in my field of work.
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... so long as you are sure you've got it , don't for gods sake agree that you'll provide a shot of great aunt marge if she was ommitted from your selection without first making sure you have one in your second cut pile which is acceptably sharp and exposed/composed. Its good to be able to say yes, but its better to say ' sorry, no' than it is to get yourself into a position of presenting woefully substandard shots because thats all you have of a certain person (or worse to say yes then discover that actually you don't have any)

Also if you contracted to 'cover the wedding' without specifying a number of shots its likely to be a case of providing the extra shot free of charge as customer service, not for an extra fee (as they'd expect it to have been included) - extras for wedding togs tend to be prints, albums etc rather than extra shots per se
 
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