Help, am I being stiched up?

FetchMeMyTools said:
Interesting read as i have been in the same situation.
I agreed to give the B+G a CD for their own personal use and had no orders, then found out that the family had large prints up on the wall of the photos i took.
I wasnt bitter as i should have had it written down, but then again even if i did, what was i going to do ? Take them to Court ? not happening.

Nowadays i know that people want all the photos and print them themselves so i bit the bullet and just charge a set fee for all the photos on a CD and make some money if they want an album. Or i can print them (most people go the CD route), making sure i get enough money from either package without sales of prints.

Sounds to me you have been stitched up, so lesson learned, dont let anyone else do that.
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:agree:
Me too! the only difference being...I AM bitter!!! :bang:
 
First of all, think about the bigger picture and the future.

In an ideal world you want people to see your photographs and say wow, I like these and I want this photographer at my wedding. The more cds the brides mother produces the more people get to see your photos.

Now, the problem you have is that you are worried about copying of your images.

You said you would give the B&G a cd with the images on. I doubt if you told them the exact type of photographs you would provide.

Now keep to your word:

Supply a cd with the low res images and watermark the images in a subtle manner, but sufficient enough to be visible on a print. In the bottom right hand corner of each image put your web address followed by a landing page for the wedding (e.g. abcphotos123.com/bandgwed/ ) this way if the cd does get copied, people will go straight to the wedding on your website - where you can upsell them prints.

On your landing page stress how professional and superior your prints are compared to consumer ink jets and they are good value for money.

Say to the B&G they can have 10 (10 x 8) professional prints for free - cost to you about £7.00.

Ensure that each photo on the cd has the copyright info embedded in its iptc/xmp header.

The cd has a licence.txt file detailing that all images are copyright.

Make the first photo a note about how images can be purchased.

Finally, make sure the original cd has a label on it detailing its content (B&G wedding) and a copyright statement. Then send the B&G a letter enclosing the cd and explaining what is on the cd.

Be truthful and do not try and hide anything from the B&G - if necessary explain the copyright law and how you overheard the bride's mother.

Even offer to donate a % of the cost of every image sold to their chosen charity - so if you sell a 10 x 8 for say £6.00, you donate £1.00, cost to you say £0.50 - profit per photo £4.50.
 
Let me offer my view as someone who knows nothing about the wedding photography business but did get married this year and had an 'expenses only' photographer \ friend of a friend etc.

The photographer had done two weddings and was learning their trade as such and wanting to build a portfolio, and was a friend of one of the bridesmaids. We paid expenses, she could use photos, we'd get copies on a CD, that was the deal.

The photographer could have told us card corrupted, camera broke, lens broke, car broke down etc and we would have been ok with that. We didn't agree high res \ low res shots but if you offer someone a CD of the images without stating anything IMHO the implication is that the pictures will be that, and certainly not watermarked. We got our CD and have since recommended the person to two couples.

If we'd received low res copies I would have been shouting to anyone that cared to listen, and anyone who didn't about it. I think you should not underestimate how strongly people can feel about this.

The mother here seems totally out of order, however I firmly believe, right or wrong, you will gain nothing other than badwill by gving them low res \watermarked images. If I were you I'd give them a CD with everything but explain you have lost money because what has occured and see if they therefore want to buy an album \ prints etc off you.

If not it's a hard lesson learned, but at least you've started your portfolio!
 
akr said:
Let me offer my view as someone who knows nothing about the wedding photography business but did get married this year and had an 'expenses only' photographer \ friend of a friend etc.

The photographer had done two weddings and was learning their trade as such and wanting to build a portfolio, and was a friend of one of the bridesmaids. We paid expenses, she could use photos, we'd get copies on a CD, that was the deal.

The photographer could have told us card corrupted, camera broke, lens broke, car broke down etc and we would have been ok with that. We didn't agree high res \ low res shots but if you offer someone a CD of the images without stating anything IMHO the implication is that the pictures will be that, and certainly not watermarked. We got our CD and have since recommended the person to two couples.

If we'd received low res copies I would have been shouting to anyone that cared to listen, and anyone who didn't about it. I think you should not underestimate how strongly people can feel about this.

The mother here seems totally out of order, however I firmly believe, right or wrong, you will gain nothing other than badwill by gving them low res \watermarked images. If I were you I'd give them a CD with everything but explain you have lost money because what has occured and see if they therefore want to buy an album \ prints etc off you.

If not it's a hard lesson learned, but at least you've started your portfolio!
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Phew! Finally got through to the (current) end of this thread and I think a lot of valuable feedback has already been provided....to honour your commitment surely a CD of images exported at 75 ppi with no watermark will meet the agreemant.

B&G will not see anything wrong at this res on their screen (after all what are CD's for ;-) but when it comes to producing a decent (clandestine) print they will all be disappointed.

If you convey that hi-res prints are available to all (obviously through you), at a price you dictate then where is the harm in that?

Sure M-I-L can propagate the CD of low res images, and if that suffices all the family member then so beit.

The fact that you overheard the M-I-L's statement should steel you to not give up a day's vacation and pay an assistant what you could afford for her assistance in processing the images just to get ripped by a M-I-L (note...not necessarily the B&G) who for whatever reason wants to save money on a wedding which is expected for 'free'.

I say M-I-L's cheapness is despicable and either learn from the apparently 'vague' agreement and move on or give them the minimum which they can't print from and worry not about bad vibes which may ensue, after all the M-I-L has cheapened the entire wedding ceremony.

My 2cents

Jamie
 
I think yo uhave two options here

suck it up, give them the CD of ful res images and learn from your mistake


or

give them a CD of small res images that they can use to email people and upload the high res ones to a photobox pro gallery so people can order prints from there.

You shot yourself in the foot by thinking you could make some money from prints while handing over a CD of hi res images. everybody copies and scans pics to email and give other people copies there is nothing you can do about it.


Next time lay out ground rules in advance which are much tighter binding.
 
Personally I'd be tempted to make the images very small, low res, and numbered. I suspect you didn't say what size they would be. Mark the cd small low res images "for viewing only not suitable for printing" you have then filled your part of the deal (supplied disk of images) if they want proper ones they have to pay, factor the price on only selling one (once MIL get's hold of it) and walk away.
 
Low res images with a disclaimer stating that these are designed to be printed 6x4 (any large will result in distortion/pixelation) and if they want larger prints should contact you.
 
Difficult situation to find yourself in really. Depends how great your need to make some cash is I guess. Least you have the experience + images for your portfolio. Me, I would make up a slideshow dvd of high quality images, give them watermarked images on dvd. Then offer the couple "at-cost" prints for themselves, and the rest of the orders with some profit for you.
 
Ok a little tip for you for this in future, unfortunatly it wont help now.

When you write to a disc, get a sharp knife and right at the rim of the cd, scratch it.
You can see where the disc has stoppe being written. So right at the edge is fine.

The disc will play fine, but it wont duplicate :)
 
Really?
Surely you could just pull the files and burn a new one?
 
Really, it does work. Usually the image will burn to the end, if it does not, scratch it right at the very end of the burn.

When I have done it the image was at the end. Never tried mid-disc but I guess its fine.


How much are cdr's? 5p? try it

When you write to a disc, it burns from inside out, so do right at the end where the EOD is. ;)
 
But how will that stop me drag and dropping them into a new folder and burning a new disc?
 
Because it needs the EOD track to know when to stop looking.
Even IF you get the images off, they are going to be lower quality so you cant print them anyway.

Give it a go, as I said I did with full dvdr discs years ago. If it doesnt work for you, I'll give you 5p for the disc!
 
Yes I think she'll have to chalk this down as experience, but personally I would talk to the B&G first before giving them the images and explain the situation (including the battle axes comments), she did take a day off work (unpaid leave) plus pay a friend £10 to help process the images so that they were ready for the evening reception, so she is out of pocket for this event, hopefully the B&G will be willing to compromise maybe not over the images but, a deal for the prints.

Next time, she'll need to agree before hand, what expenses (travel cost, time off work etc) to charge, an hourly rate for processing and editing the images, a cost for the days event, and whether she keeps full rights of the images and sells the prints etc or as part of the package give her next client the image rights, which she need to work into the cost and get them to agree to all this before the happy event.
 
Brooksy said:
Because it needs the EOD track to know when to stop looking.
Even IF you get the images off, they are going to be lower quality so you cant print them anyway.

Give it a go, as I said I did with full dvdr discs years ago. If it doesnt work for you, I'll give you 5p for the disc!
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CDR, even wrote on the back. Burned all of my "365" photo's so far, used Stanley blade from edge of the track to edge of disc.
Used separate computer to read disc.
All files retained quality and copied across no problem.
Did I do something wrong?

CD1.jpg


CD2.jpg
 
Ahh I see what you mean, If you write it as slide show (you will get Video_TS/Audio_TS) files on it, you wont be able.

If you write individual files then they will be ok to remove.

My appologies for badly explaining it. Too many coor's!! , where shall I send the 5p!
 
A verbal agreement is just as legally binding as any written one, it's just not as easy to prove that it took place. That aside what kind of people are you dealing with, who, when you photograph their wedding at short notice and free of charge, would then expect you to provide them with prints, FOC, and then any Tom, **** or Harry with a High Res CD so that they can print off whatever they like ffs. Just supply a watermarked CD and let them then get back to you with ALL the orders and then charge the tight fisted wayne kerrs well over the odds.

Cheers Paul
 
TriggerHappy198 said:
I did tell the bride I was planning to sell the prints to the guests

kudos on the watermark idea guys, although would it be wrong to give the bride images that are watermarked? If I supply her with unwatermarked images no doubt they will copied and given to the guests, but I feel kinda bad supplying watermarked images to her when I had agreed to give her a CD

Thanks
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If the bride is planning to print any of the photos, ask her where she getting them printed etc and do them at cost so she effectively all the work you have done for her is free. The CD on the other hand remains off limits - she is free to peruse it at any time of course if she wants some more stuff printed off. Hell, even give her the CD with the watermark as others have suggested but handle the printing yourself (at cost).
 
At worst you could always provide very low res images on the disc.
 
At the end of the day, might be best to take this one on the chin, and cough up the promised discs...

Think of it as a positive learning experience:) I did exactly the same on my first wedding - disc went to B+G, not a peep from family or friends afterwards. On the plus side, I got the experience, some photos for my portfolio, and now charge like crazy for a disc of images!
 
Fascinating thread and really interesting, varied replies! :thumbs:

I've been in a similar situation before, and as the saying goes, a verbal agreement is worth the paper it's written on...

I would arrange a private session with the B&G and request that only they are present - the mother is not around.

I would get a fair amount of 6x4 prints and one or two of the best shots printed in 12x8 or whatever to really showcase your final product. I would also give them a CD of non-watermarked images, although maybe keep them websized.

During the chat, I would spend time going over the photos on your laptop or whatever, show them the nice prints. I would use that "friendly, caring, honest" opportunity to your advantage. I'd say something like:
Here's a disc of all the photos from the wedding as agreed. If I may say however, I did hear your mother say she'd be giving copies of the disc away to friends and family and this is something we hadn't agreed on. Of course, I don't have any control over this yet I know you appreciate I took the photos for your personal use. If friends and family would like photos, I'd be more than happy to provide them prints at cost. But would like to avoid copies of the disc and ultimately prints being distributed out of my control
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.

That way, I reckon you're being open, honest up front and showing that you respect the verbal agreement, whilst retaining an ethical business practice.
 
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