Help, am I being stiched up?

TriggerHappy198

TriggerHappy198

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Name
Josh
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Hi all

Before I start, I just want to say I don't consider myself a professional by any means, I enjoy photography as a hobby and need a few more years of university before I can think about making a career from photography.

I was very reluctant to post in this forum after seeing all the flaming that goes on but here goes anyway.

I did my first wedding photos the other week, the bride was one of my mums colleagues, anyway she needed a wedding photographer at fairly short notice (about 1 month)

I agreed to do it for her for free, after all it was going to be my first wedding. I told her I would provide her and her direct family with a CD of the images, and my mum was going to pay for one of the images to be printed as a wedding gift. I was planning to make money from the friends and guests purchasing prints from me

I displayed the images on a large TV at the evening party, and there seemed to be a lot of interest, however, I think I overheard the groom's mum telling a group of the friends/guests that she would provide them all with copies of the CDs and that they didn't need to buy them. Guess what, I've received no orders

This has left me feeling betrayed, as although I agreed to do the wedding for free and I can use the day as good experience, I put a lot of effort into taking the pictures and editing them, and think its right that the guests/friends should pay to have the images

To make matters worse I now have the bride constantly nagging at my mum at work asking for me to hurry up and give her the CD

I haven't supplied any one with CDs yet and was wondering what I should do about the whole situation :(

Thanks

Josh
 
Put a sodding great watermark right across all the pictures on the disk, that way they have to come to you unless they want all their wedding memories to have your name across the faces ;)
 
Watermark the lot,heavily, before putting them on the CD..............:naughty:
 
Great minds eh Graham.............:lol:
 
What did you agree up front about you selling the images?

Was it made clear that the images were going to be sold?

Did you agree anything about how many images/what quality would be on the CD?

I would probably just put it down as a learning experience. Put a copyright notice on the CD and in the exif.

If you could be bothered you could try providing a cd with watermarks or low res images.
 
I was just going to say the exact same thing! watermark. if you happen to do them a dvd slideshow can't you protect the files? just incase they go in and get the actual jpegs...or maybe you could use smaller file sizes?
 
You said 'you were planning' to make money from friends.

Did you ever verbally agree this beforehand?

Simple advice. Go and talk to the bride. Not via your mum. Explain the situation. At the end of the day you did her a BIG favour by stepping in short notice and, I guess, you did a good job.

It may be too late to be talking about a fee. But if you explain the above to her (and don't threaten to hold the images to ransom) perhaps somehow you can recoup something from this.

Somehow I get the feeling (just reading between the lines here) that you thought you'd make a little money out of this, she thought she was getting a complete freebie.

It may be too late now but go and discuss this with the bride.
 
I did tell the bride I was planning to sell the prints to the guests

kudos on the watermark idea guys, although would it be wrong to give the bride images that are watermarked? If I supply her with unwatermarked images no doubt they will copied and given to the guests, but I feel kinda bad supplying watermarked images to her when I had agreed to give her a CD

Thanks
 
Did you say you wanted to sell to guests when the 'job' came up?
 
You did some a favour, take the learning experience as payment and don't make the same mistakes next time :)
 
Steep learning curve aint it :'(.

that said stick a water mark through the images then tell the bride and groom that any photos they want you will order.:shrug:

other than that next time tell people you will give them a watermarked disc to pick any photos from and you will get them printed;)


md:thumbs:
 
Maybe if I supply a dvd disk with a slideshow of all the images, which will be playable on there DVD players, but make it so they cant copy/save/print the images, and also supply a disk of heavily watermarked JPGs I wont be doing anything wrong
 
if you said you were recouping your costs by selling prints (coz lets face it, your not going to make thosands from it, probably just a couple of quid to help you on your way) and shes prepared to copy the cds to everyone, i would quite politely give her a dvd containing a slideshow of images that are unwatermarked and possible some watermarked Jpgs on a cd

tell her if she wants prints, unwatermarked single Jpgs or any copies of the above, she will have to pay for them

thats not rude, you have shot her wedding for her, something that would have cost her 500+ had you not stepped in, hold your head up and demand some compensation for your time
 
Josh,

Unless you have made it clear to the B&G (and their families) that you would be expecting to sell images afterwards, I'd mark this down as experience.

You offered to shoot for free and give a CD of images with it, if you watermark them across the middle the client won't be happy and they'll let everyone know that they aren't happy which won't lead to recommendations for other (perhaps paid) work.
 
I'd be tempted to do a slideshow, then they can see the images but not easily copy them. for prints.
 
SimonTALM said:
Josh,

Unless you have made it clear to the B&G (and their families) that you would be expecting to sell images afterwards, I'd mark this down as experience.
Click to expand...

I dont mind supplying the B&Gs family with the images, I think its really cheeky that the grooms mum told the guests not to buy my prints as she will give them copies for free.
 
small images that wont print without pixelating perhaps?
 
TriggerHappy198 said:
I dont mind supplying the B&Gs family with the images, I think its really cheeky that the grooms mum told the guests not to buy my prints as she will give them copies for free.
Click to expand...

it's outrageousthe the grooms mother has suggested that and the above advice is suitable revenge.

dvd slide show and watermarked images, explain to your mother why you have taken this route.
 
Joe©;1720922 said:
small images that wont print without pixelating perhaps?
Click to expand...
:thumbs:

Thats a good idea aswell

My other worry is that they are going to print the photos on there 30 quid lexmark printer, and then blame me for the fact they dont look right
 
If they blame you for that, print one off yourself of the same shot and show them how good it can look, and it can be theirs for only *insert appropriate price*
 
make sure you attach a copyright information letter, stating that they are not allowed to copy the disk without written consent from you:)
 
1st question springs to my mind is, "why were you called in at short notice"

did original tog cancel, die, double book, or did they forget to book?

2nd question is on a scale of "novice, though to hobbyist, keen amateur, semi pro, pro" - where are you on the scale, and can you justifiably charge at a profit.......to me whatever level covering expenses is ok......

3rd, Q - you agreed to do it free, and supply cd etc but were looking to make a £ or 2 on selling the prints. Fair do's to you but in order to do this, should be a clear agreement in place with B&G first?

Otherwise, if you supply a non copyrighted hi res CD/DVD, then surely it becomes their rights?

If I was the G of B&G and had agreed what apears abovem would not be impressed with heavily watermarked pics....

Though if I was the tog, would be a bit peeved.........


I guess, it's learn from oversight/mistakes and next time.............:|
 
If you're going to make a business of this then you need to look at it in a businesslike way , contact the bride and groom, tell them you were prepared to do the actual photography as agreed but you're not prepared to supply a CD of high res images that can be copied and distributed amongst the guests for free.

Did you have a formal contract to be the wedding photographer, if not I don't suppose you have to give them anything if you don't want to, the rights to the photos are held by the photographer and all that.

If all else fails a slide show is the way to go, low res images so even if they find out how to get them from the CD they won't be able to print decent pictures.
 
They are not clients, they're going to take advantage of you.
Are they going to complain to potential customers on the basis that they want probably pro grade images to copy and share at will without paying?
Watermark the lot, have text on them saying purchased images will not be watermarked, not printable resolution something like that.
I'd be tempted to supply B&G with 10 or so prints at a good size, 8x12 or mix 8x12 and 5x7 something like that.
That lot will set you back about £10 at DSCL and the quality is very high. People will then see prints and be more tempted to order their own off you.
They can freely copy your watermarked low res CD and tell people how well the prints have come out.
 
fletch5 said:
make sure you attach a copyright information letter, stating that they are not allowed to copy the disk without written consent from you:)
Click to expand...

Although this should work, it wont.
I know people that have scanned their wedding album as soon as they got home from the honeymoon, despite a contract stating it's not allowed.
 
Lynton said:
1st question springs to my mind is, "why were you called in at short notice"

did original tog cancel, die, double book, or did they forget to book?

2nd question is on a scale of "novice, though to hobbyist, keen amateur, semi pro, pro" - where are you on the scale, and can you justifiably charge at a profit.......to me whatever level covering expenses is ok......

3rd, Q - you agreed to do it free, and supply cd etc but were looking to make a £ or 2 on selling the prints. Fair do's to you but in order to do this, should be a clear agreement in place with B&G first?

Otherwise, if you supply a non copyrighted hi res CD/DVD, then surely it becomes their rights?

If I was the G of B&G and had agreed what apears abovem would not be impressed with heavily watermarked pics....

Though if I was the tog, would be a bit peeved.........


I guess, it's learn from oversight/mistakes and next time.............:|
Click to expand...


I think the whole wedding was a short notice thing, it was fairly low profile at a registry office.

I guess I would put myself down as a keen amateur. I had a couple of costs to cover, I called in one of my mates girlfriends to help me edit the images in time for the evening party, and I gave her 10 quid for the few hours, I know its not but its all I could really afford, my only other expense was taking an unpaid day off work to do it.

Initially I should have been clearer to who gets what and at what price, as a lot of you have said I should learn from my mistakes, what I don't want to do is upset the bride as I would like to be recommended by her to any of her friends who are getting married
 
i know that cyclone, we did a school shoot and offered the 3 images on cd. they deided that they didnt like one of them so went for 2 8x10 and told us they would scan them instead. it was mentioned, but i am pretty sure they did it anyway.

seeing as they are a colleague of his moms though, there a chance he may find out and be able to make any claim he likes if he decided to sue
 
looks like I have two different routes to go down

1. Swallow my pride, give the B&G and there families CDs containing full res JPGs, along with a copyright notice, fully aware chances are the CDs are going to be copied, learn from my mistake, and use the images in my portfolio.

or

2. Supply the B&G and family with a disk of watermarked images, might make some money from people ordering, but risk upsetting the b&g
 
Option 2,for goodness sake.........:thumbs:
 
I wish there was a compromise, I am happy for the B&G and there families to receive the images, in full resolution as thats whats what I agreed, I just cant think of a way to ensure the guests and friends don't get hold of the images for free aswell
 
Id honestly say option 2 with a couple of decent quality prints, explain to them that you dont mind helping people out but if there's going to be underhanded and sneaky tactics as shown by the mother you will not be willing to help.

Explain also that cameras after a while do break so by getting some cash from prints your just making sure you have enough to replace yours when it does, not to mention the fact you put yourself out of a days work and gave them a decent turn around speed.

*Edit* also why not offer them the prints and low quality or watermarked disk, leave it a week or so for any guests to order prints, THEN provide the B&G with a high quality disk?
 
i would definatly explain when you see them that you have had to recoup some costs from it all, not that you are Making money, because you arent - but that you are getting some of your costs back. i am sure they will be fine about it it makes perfect sense really

and if they really push you tell them to blame the MinL i would be quite clear with them myself, tell them what i have overheard and how i have to adjust to prevent this blantent (and illegal) copyright issue becoming a huge issue.

but i do like to stir the pot...
 
Frenzied Dwarf said:
Id honestly say option 2 with a couple of decent quality prints, explain to them that you dont mind helping people out but if there's going to be underhanded and sneaky tactics as shown by the mother you will not be willing to help.
Click to expand...

I like this idea, perhaps if I select 5 or so images of just the b&g, which can be printed, the rest of the b&g pics and any photos of groups, guests and bridesmaids I will water mark so they have to be purchased, I think that is reasonable.
 
Its reasonable but obviously go in with tact :D, (not my strongpoint *Kicks in the door*) im sure they will understand, just give them the "Money shots", Cutting the cake etc and they will most likley purchase a few more anyway
 
I agree with everyone who has indicated that you need to let it go on this occasion. You are going to annoy the b+g if they don't get what they think they're getting, surely? At this point, what's more important - building a good customer relationship that could get you referrals in the future, whilst you've added to your portfolio, or getting a few quid?

L
 
TriggerHappy198 said:
I like this idea, perhaps if I select 5 or so images of just the b&g, which can be printed, the rest of the b&g pics and any photos of groups, guests and bridesmaids I will water mark so they have to be purchased, I think that is reasonable.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I suggested something similar about 40 mins ago lol.
 
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