Help a newbie understand IQ

Bassit

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Hi, i am sure this question has been asked before but i see reference to IQ all of the time whilst reading the forums, could anyone please explain what IQ actually entails, it seems to be a very wide range of things so if you could clear it up for me that would be great :).

Cheers
Bassit.
 
IQ = Image Quality.

This however can be interpreted differently by different people. Some people look at an image as a whole others look at different aspects for example

Bokeh
Color
Overall sharpness
Contrast
The sharpness of the corners of the photo
and Noise
 
For me it is just how close to the actual thing you are photography the image is.
 
IQ = Image Quality.

This however can be interpreted differently by different people. Some people look at an image as a whole others look at different aspects for example

Bokeh
Color
Overall sharpness
Contrast
The sharpness of the corners of the photo
and Noise

I think this may be why i am a bit confused, it seems to be down to each individuals interpretation of what IQ is.
 
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For me it is just how close to the actual thing you are photography the image is.

For me, it's how close I get to how I wanted the final image to look when I planned the shot, which may not be the same thing at all.

I think this may be why i am a bit confused, it seems to be down to each individuals interpretation of what IQ is.

Yes, that's absolutely correct; you learn to produce images your way. If you are happy with the result, then that's good IQ. You'll find that your standard of what constitutes good IQ will develop along with your knowledge and skill.

Well, I hope it will ;)
 
I think IQ in the technical sense has nothing to do with photography and is simply about the gear's ability to record it well.

So all of the above really, distortion free, sharp, authentic colour reproduction. The measurable qualities of an image.

A shot of a brick wall is often used to show the IQ of a lens / camera combination and it has nothing whatsoever to do with a photograph being pleasing to the viewer.

It's why gear forums and critique forums are largely inhabited by a completely different audience.
 
For me this is simple. You have 2 ways to look at "IQ":

Technically, and aesthetically.

One should always strive to achieve high quality technically, but sometimes, that gets in the way of the aesthetic you want.

Obsessing over ultimate sharpness, and such things as "bokeh" can often get in the way of creativity, as you spend more time thinking about technique than what the image is trying to say. Just remember, that photographs taken as a creative endeavour should be communicating something... that's all photography is: visual communication. We're not talking just about fine art imagery here... I mean all imagery.

So to make an analogy based on communication... let's consider the spoken word.

So think of the technical aspects such as sharpness, focus accuracy, exposure etc as the accuracy of the spoken word... the pronunciation, grammar etc.

Think of the aesthetics as diction, and the actual meanings of the words spoken.

You can have someone with supremely beautiful spoken English, merely reading a laundry list. It would be perfectly read, but wouldn't communicate much of interest. The opposite is someone with a heavy regional accent and dialect reciting an extremely moving piece of poetry, where their "flaws" are entirely appropriate.

The trick is deciding what is more important.

I took this shot ages ago, and I still love it. I was stuck inside, ill... it had been raining for almost a week... I wanted to capture how I felt. so I took this.


CLICK FOR BIG


Technically flawed. Shot on ISO125 35mm film, underexposed by about 2 stops, horrible vignetting from a cheap kit lens, not very sharp, and almost cooked in ID11 at 40C for 2 minutes (didn't even bother timing it) and printed on grade 3 paper with nothing else done to it. Not even bothered retouching the scratches and dust on the film. This is a straight scan of the neg... no post processing. Even that black border is real (A filed back 35mm neg carrier) It speaks of my mood at the time though. All these were choices I made. If I'd taken this technically perfectly, it would have lost the tone of voice I wanted.

Don't obsess about it. Do what's right for the work you are producing. You need to know how to take technically perfect shots however before you can even think about arsing about with lowering quality... otherwise you're just relying on luck. You also have to have a reason for doing it, and you have to do it in order to communicate something to the viewer.


Sometimes, technically perfect, if being the sole reason and driver behind the image making process, just results in really emotionally un-involving images.

If it feels right, then it's right, and if pedants want to argue over your sharpness etc, let them. If you're taking the images for the right reasons, it's usually pretty obvious why you did what you did. It's always easy to spot a shot that was intentionally flawed to those that are just badly produced through ignorance and lack of knowledge.

The same goes fr post processing these days.... just have a damned good think about whether what you are doing is actually adding anything to meaning of the image. [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] to "wow" factor or trying to dazzle people with eye candy. If it doesn't add to the reading of the image, then it's superficial [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] and eye candy.
 
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Thank you for all of your replies :clap:, for me this is something i feel the need to understand to be a competent photographer, i am quite technically minded and like to learn new "stuff", but as i have said the term IQ is quite ambiguous and i felt i needed some explanation of peoples view of what it actually means to them.

I would still like to hear other peoples views on their take on "IQ" even after the excellent replies from the excellent photographers above.

:yv:
Come on yv give us your view on IQ and earn that drink. ;)
I just had to use this smilie? because it made me laugh.
 
For me this is simple. You have 2 ways to look at "IQ":

Technically, and aesthetically.

One should always strive to achieve high quality technically, but sometimes, that gets in the way of the aesthetic you want.

Obsessing over ultimate sharpness, and such things as "bokeh" can often get in the way of creativity, as you spend more time thinking about technique than what the image is trying to say. Just remember, that photographs taken as a creative endeavour should be communicating something... that's all photography is: visual communication. We're not talking just about fine art imagery here... I mean all imagery.

So to make an analogy based on communication... let's consider the spoken word.

So think of the technical aspects such as sharpness, focus accuracy, exposure etc as the accuracy of the spoken word... the pronunciation, grammar etc.

Think of the aesthetics as diction, and the actual meanings of the words spoken.

You can have someone with supremely beautiful spoken English, merely reading a laundry list. It would be perfectly read, but wouldn't communicate much of interest. The opposite is someone with a heavy regional accent and dialect reciting an extremely moving piece of poetry, where their "flaws" are entirely appropriate.

The trick is deciding what is more important.

I took this shot ages ago, and I still love it. I was stuck inside, ill... it had been raining for almost a week... I wanted to capture how I felt. so I took this.


CLICK FOR BIG


Technically flawed. Shot on ISO125 35mm film, underexposed by about 2 stops, horrible vignetting from a cheap kit lens, not very sharp, and almost cooked in ID11 at 40C for 2 minutes (didn't even bother timing it) and printed on grade 3 paper with nothing else done to it. Not even bothered retouching the scratches and dust on the film. This is a straight scan of the neg... no post processing. Even that black border is real (A filed back 35mm neg carrier) It speaks of my mood at the time though. All these were choices I made. If I'd taken this technically perfectly, it would have lost the tone of voice I wanted.

Don't obsess about it. Do what's right for the work you are producing. You need to know how to take technically perfect shots however before you can even think about arsing about with lowering quality... otherwise you're just relying on luck. You also have to have a reason for doing it, and you have to do it in order to communicate something to the viewer.


Sometimes, technically perfect, if being the sole reason and driver behind the image making process, just results in really emotionally un-involving images.

If it feels right, then it's right, and if pedants want to argue over your sharpness etc, let them. If you're taking the images for the right reasons, it's usually pretty obvious why you did what you did. It's always easy to spot a shot that was intentionally flawed to those that are just badly produced through ignorance and lack of knowledge.

The same goes fr post processing these days.... just have a damned good think about whether what you are doing is actually adding anything to meaning of the image. [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] to "wow" factor or trying to dazzle people with eye candy. If it doesn't add to the reading of the image, then it's superficial [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] and eye candy.

Very well put :thumbs:
 
Thanks.

I just believe that sometimes... right is wrong, and wrong can be right... it's about context.

Correction to my post... that's a scan of the print... not the neg.
 
I'm not suggesting it's wrong, but I have never seen IQ used as a measure of an image's aesthetic qualities but only as a measure of technical quality.


Steve.
 
I'm not suggesting it's wrong, but I have never seen IQ used as a measure of an image's aesthetic qualities but only as a measure of technical quality.


Steve.

But an image's aesthetic qualities can be determined by it's technical qualities. I fail to see how you can separate the two... hence why it's relly about the two things: Aesthetic and technical. Without such a distinction, the only appreciable measure of image quality will be technical, and it's obvious to anyone that technical quality alone should never be a measure of an image's worth.
 
Aesthetic and technical. Without such a distinction, the only appreciable measure of image quality will be technical, and it's obvious to anyone that technical quality alone should never be a measure of an image's worth.

I agree entirely. It's just that in every case I have seen where people have been discussing IQ it has only been about technical quality, resolution, lens resolving power, etc.


Steve.
 
Technical is objective, aesthetic is subjective. Sort of.
 
Quite true... but because technical effects the aesthetic, that too becomes subjective.

It's important for images to communicate something... to have meaning... and sometimes deliberately reducing, affecting, or manipulating sheer technical quality is the best way to achieve this.

If anyone is in doubt.... then why is there such a large market in plug-ins that deliberately try to replicate other processes that essentially degrade quality? Why the whole lomography movement (although that's now just a cliché).

Striving relentlessly for ultimate technical quality alone, with nothing else to drive your image making will result in pretty boring (even if technically perfect) work.
 
Thanks David, i have read and re-read your posts and now have an understanding of the term IQ (:thinking:) :).

Just out of interest and totally off topic, why Pookeyhead, i have googled the term and the only interpretations i can find (albeit a different spelling) doesn't seem to describe you, if i am being a bit too nosey feel free to tell me to sod off. :thumbs:
 
Thanks David, i have read and re-read your posts and now have an understanding of the term IQ (:thinking:) :).

Just out of interest and totally off topic, why Pookeyhead, i have googled the term and the only interpretations i can find (albeit a different spelling) doesn't seem to describe you, if i am being a bit too nosey feel free to tell me to sod off. :thumbs:



LOL.... completely off topic.. but fair enough. Back in teh day when I started online gaming... back in the days of Quake 1... most gamers were called "Deathlord"... or "Hellhound"... or equally macho nonsense... so just to annoy the 14 year old gamers, I called myself Pookeyhead, and customised my armour to pink etc... and God did it annoy them... this guy with the silly name dressed in pink kicking their asses :) I've just used it as a screen name ever since. What can I say... I'm a creature of habit in certain areas :)
 
LOL.... completely off topic.. but fair enough. Back in teh day when I started online gaming... back in the days of Quake 1... most gamers were called "Deathlord"... or "Hellhound"... or equally macho nonsense... so just to annoy the 14 year old gamers, I called myself Pookeyhead, and customised my armour to pink etc... and God did it annoy them... this guy with the silly name dressed in pink kicking their asses :) I've just used it as a screen name ever since. What can I say... I'm a creature of habit in certain areas :)

:lol: thanks for the reply and the laugh, i was wondering what a pookeyhead was so googled it and as i say none seemed to describe you.
 
I think IQ in the technical sense has nothing to do with photography and is simply about the gear's ability to record it well.

So all of the above really, distortion free, sharp, authentic colour reproduction. The measurable qualities of an image.

A shot of a brick wall is often used to show the IQ of a lens / camera combination and it has nothing whatsoever to do with a photograph being pleasing to the viewer.

It's why gear forums and critique forums are largely inhabited by a completely different audience.

Plus 1
 
So would you disagree that it has anything to do with the aesthetics and is purely down to the technical side of things, it has already been pointed out that this seems to be down to personal interpretation so i am not asking for an argument just your opinion. :thumbs:

EDIT: A quick google and i found this link that seems to support the idea that IQ is a mix of both technical and aesthetics.
 
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So would you disagree that it has anything to do with the aesthetics and is purely down to the technical side of things, it has already been pointed out that this seems to be down to personal interpretation so i am not asking for an argument just your opinion. :thumbs:

EDIT: A quick google and i found this link that seems to support the idea that IQ is a mix of both technical and aesthetics.

Did you read that link?

Because the headings are:
Sharpness
Noise
Dynamic Range
Color Accuracy
Distortion
Uniformity
Chromatic Aberration
Veiling Glare
Color Moire
Artifacts
Compression
Print Dmax
Print Color Gamut

I see nothing about aesthetics:thinking:
 
Not fully, i got a bit further than the headings though..

Quote from the link
"When people ask me about “digital manipulation” I delight in telling them that I would no more manipulate an image than Ansel Adams. Of course I’m jesting. In Ansel Adams: A Biography, Mary Street Alinder describes how Adams printed his famous Moonrise over Hernandez image. He’d spend the entire morning making test prints — dodging, burning, and (chemically) manipulating them until they met his exacting standards. It took him that long even though he kept meticulous notes. Then he’d spend the afternoon making prints. From a processing viewpoint he would have loved digital. But probably not from a business viewpoint. Thanks in part to his brilliant business manager he earned more in an afternoon of printing than most of us earn in a decade."
 
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A camera is not representative of the human visual system. Photos don't look like the real thing.

I realise that, but the goal is to get as close as it can isn't it? (colour, DR, detail/sharpness etc,.)

And my photos look pretty much like the real thing, what are you using an IR camera? :)
 
Sharpness
Noise
Dynamic Range
Color Accuracy
Distortion
Uniformity
Chromatic Aberration
Veiling Glare
Color Moire
Artifacts
Compression
Print Dmax
Print Color Gamut

All technical aspects of the image. If all you are concerned with is how technically perfect an image is, then methodically working through that list to make sure your images have the highest standards in all those aspects will get you there, yes, but anyone so obsessed with all of that will probably be missing the point of taking the image in the first place.

Sometimes absolute technical perfection is not the best solution. Why is it do you think that people still shoot on film? Technically, it's flawed. Colours are not as accurate, the random analogue nature of the grain, the limited dynamic range... all of these things are artefacts that add qualities to the image that technically shouldn't be there, yet people go to great lengths to try and replicate it in digital imagery. Motion picture films are mainly shot digitally now, but they still go through a post processing stage to replicate the look of film. Why is that do you think?

People remove colour entirely to produce black and white images.

Hardly anyone these days would even consider using images shot RAW straight off the camera, yet camera manufacturers go to great lengths to produce cameras that get very close to accurately recording reality. Why?

Because people use photography as a medium of expression and artistic interpretation, that's why. This is not a new thing... as you've already discovered by reading that link, Ansel Adams altered his images dramatically from what was captured on the negative.


There's image quality... then there's the quality of the image. Two different, yet inseparable things.

My advice is stop worrying about it, and start thinking about what you want your images to say. Once you understand that, you'll just do what's appropriate.


I realise that, but the goal is to get as close as it can isn't it?

No. Who made up that rule? Wouldn't everyone's work be identical in tone, form, feel and emotion if that was the case?
 
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David
I'm getting worried, I keep finding myself agreeing with you
:lol:
 
David
I'm getting worried, I keep finding myself agreeing with you
:lol:


Come towards the light..... come towards the light......



:)
 
Sharpness
Noise
Dynamic Range
Color Accuracy
Distortion
Uniformity
Chromatic Aberration
Veiling Glare
Color Moire
Artifacts
Compression
Print Dmax
Print Color Gamut

All technical aspects of the image. If all you are concerned with is how technically perfect an image is, then methodically working through that list to make sure your images have the highest standards in all those aspects will get you there, yes, but anyone so obsessed with all of that will probably be missing the point of taking the image in the first place.

Sometimes absolute technical perfection is not the best solution. Why is it do you think that people still shoot on film? Technically, it's flawed. Colours are not as accurate, the random analogue nature of the grain, the limited dynamic range... all of these things are artefacts that add qualities to the image that technically shouldn't be there, yet people go to great lengths to try and replicate it in digital imagery. Motion picture films are mainly shot digitally now, but they still go through a post processing stage to replicate the look of film. Why is that do you think?

People remove colour entirely to produce black and white images.

Hardly anyone these days would even consider using images shot RAW straight off the camera, yet camera manufacturers go to great lengths to produce cameras that get very close to accurately recording reality. Why?

Because people use photography as a medium of expression and artistic interpretation, that's why. This is not a new thing... as you've already discovered by reading that link, Ansel Adams altered his images dramatically from what was captured on the negative.

There's image quality... then there's the quality of the image. Two different, yet inseparable things.

My advice is stop worrying about it, and start thinking about what you want your images to say. Once you understand that, you'll just do what's appropriate.

No. Who made up that rule? Wouldn't everyone's work be identical in tone, form, feel and emotion if that was the case?

It's not what I believe to be important. It's the list of criteria from the site devoted to IQ.

I agree that aesthetics are more important than technical perfection. Obsession with IQ is for gear heads who seldom take a great photo.

However I disagree that aesthetics are involved in any way in a discussion of IQ. The website supports that view despite the poster appearing to think that the site included aesthetics.

I was simply clarifying the topics on the site, which happily agree with my view too.

As I said in my first post. Perfect IQ can be (and often is) demonstrated with a shot of a brick wall.

It's actually less likely to be noticeable in a beautiful or thought provoking portrait. Which is why I have scant regard for it. Once you're happy your gear isn't holding you back you can concentrate on creating great photographs. Obsessing over IQ is la route to crap pictures and frustration.
 
Obsessing over IQ is la route to crap pictures and frustration.

Absolutely true.


Image quality affects aesthetics though... and aesthetics can impact on IQ. It's two sides of the same coin. If you spend all your time obsessing over IQ, then aesthetically your images will be bland and un-involving... so therefore, IQ has affected aesthetics.

I see what you're saying though... "image quality" is about the technical aspects.. but only by popular definition. Images can have a "quality" to them which is aesthetic... or "qualities". People can, and do comment on the "quality" of an image and not be talking about sharpness or noise etc... they're just talking about the image's aesthetic qualities, the subtle tones, soft contrast, limited palette etc... all of which "technically" would be flaws as they are not reality.
 
Obsessing over IQ is la route to crap pictures and frustration.

That should maybe be the banner on the Equipment section :)

I can back that up myself, the pictures I take with my compact are no worse than my DSLR (both are poor :) )
The camera doesn't choose what to take a picture of, how to compose it, what angles/light to use etc,.
 
No. Who made up that rule? Wouldn't everyone's work be identical in tone, form, feel and emotion if that was the case?

Who said it was a rule. The general goal of a camera is to capture pretty much what the eye sees, that is what 99% of people are after isn't it?

The photographer may want to adapt how the picture comes out but the general camera user just wants a shot of what they see.
 
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Who said it was a rule. The general goal of a camera is to capture pretty much what the eye sees, that is what 99% of people are after isn't it?

I want to capture what my mind's eye sees... in order to make the viewer think something.

The photographer may want to adapt how the picture comes out but the general camera user just wants a shot of what they see.

Perhaps true... but this forum isn't really about the general camera user.. it's a photography forum for those interested in photography as a creative endeavour isn't it?

Having said that.... Joe Public, who has no interest in photography whatsoever seems enamoured with Instagram... are any of the Instagrammed images you see on Facebook a reflection of reality? Seems to me that hardly anyone is interested how accurate to reality an image is. We live in a culture these days that's replete with manipulated images. Now more than ever, people don't expect, or even seem to want reality.

If anyone on here was interested in reality, they;d shoot, download and publish with no post processing at all. How many of you do that? I bet not a single one of you :) .. and yes, that includes me.
 
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I want to capture what my mind's eye sees... in order to make the viewer think something.

which puts you in 1% of camera users. It doesn't matter what this forum is interested in, it matters to the camera producers what the general camera user wants which is to capture an image that looks as close to the thing they are taking a photo of as possible.

The general user doesn't even need to know why one camera produces a better image (higher IQ) than another as long as they can see the difference.
 
for me IQ is just how physically good a lens and or camera combo is. It has nothing to do with the asthetics of the image.

so things like resolution, colour, contrast, bokeh, aberrations etc all the numbers that you associate with tests.
 
Probably the most important to IQ is Tonal Quality


Tonal Quality has Three sources

  • Lighting
  • Processing
  • And Printing ( or equivalent)

A combination of the three defines the look of an image.
A image that displays creamy whites luscious and well defined greys and velvety blacks just shouts quality.
As do high key and low key equivalents.
Tonal faults include blown highlights muddy greys and lack of true blacks.
(Even in High key shots the maximum blacks should be black) ( muddy greys are caused by lack separation)

If the tones in an image look Good even the inclusion of other technical faults will not spoil the image. Be it lack of focus, aberrations and even camera shake.

When I speak of Tonal Quality I am not describing Just tonal range. I am describing tonal distribution.
Or in colour shots not just accurate colour but colour gradation.
 
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for me IQ is just how physically good a lens and or camera combo is. It has nothing to do with the asthetics of the image.

so things like resolution, colour, contrast, bokeh, aberrations etc all the numbers that you associate with tests.

Whilst I agree with this, what the others are arguing is that by their very nature some of these impact on the artistic quality of the image .

Personally Tehcnical IQ I find boring as hell, I'm only interested in what I can do with it artistically. Precisely why my main camera is 8 years old and relatively unheard of, it does things no other camera can - but it doesn't do ultra sharp high resolution, detailed images.
 
which puts you in 1% of camera users. It doesn't matter what this forum is interested in, it matters to the camera producers what the general camera user wants which is to capture an image that looks as close to the thing they are taking a photo of as possible.

If that were true, then why are so many... I'd go as far as to say the VAST majority of amateur images more visibly post processed than professional ones? If 99% of camera users want to take images as close to the reality of what they are shooting... why? Why is instagram so popular? HDR? Silver FX? Why? The reality is actually the opposite. Most people seem to want to find ways to alter their images from reality. And that's not just in here... that's across the board.

I reckon no one on here will actually own up to doing nothing whatsoever with their images. The reality seems to be that reality doesn't quite cut it somehow.

The general user doesn't even need to know why one camera produces a better image (higher IQ) than another as long as they can see the difference.

Indeed... you're right. I'm not saying image quality in your equipment is not important... but whether you liek it or not, we do like to find ways to change these realistic images.. to alter their quality in some way. Whether it's just contrast with levels or curves, or colour with altering saturation. Why do we all do it? If qualities such as colour accuracy are important, why aren't we satisfied with it off camera?


for me IQ is just how physically good a lens and or camera combo is. It has nothing to do with the asthetics of the image.

so things like resolution, colour, contrast, bokeh, aberrations etc all the numbers that you associate with tests.

I'm bothered about that too. If I spend thousands of pounds on lenses and cameras, I want to know it can deliver the goods if I need it to. I often print big, so quality counts. However... Back to why you retouch and post process.... Is something like colour accuracy THAT important if you're just going to change it anyway? Contrast produced by a lens? You'll probably change that too.

The two are connected. I fail to see how you can operate on one distinction or the other alone. One effects the other.
 
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