Craig1912
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Exactly, I‘ve got to drive 150 miles tomorrow. In an air conditioned car it’s probably better than sitting around in a hot house.
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jerry12953
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Probably the 97% of all climate scientists who agree it's man-made, many of whom now believe that the changes are happening faster than the worst-case scenario they predicted just a few years ago. (And it's probably more than 97% now......) Yes, there is an alternative view coming from some of those on Facebook and GB News that denies this and "believes" that climate change isn't real, isn't created by human activities, and therefore we don't need to do anything about it. But just because you believe something doesn't mean it's correct, even if you can find some dodgy research papers on the internet that back up your beliefs.
The situation is desperately bad in the US where climate change sceptics have huge amounts of fossil fuel lobby money behind them and are able to influence government policy so widely. For example the recent ruling from the Supreme Court - the legal technicalities of which i don't understand - which means that the federal government cannot put into place policies to cut down on carbon emissions.
jerry12953
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If you have to drive, you have to, but your car will be emitting more of the stuff that's causing these changes to occur. Presumably you do understand that.....?
Did anyone suggest that the Thames froze because of cold weather in the 'upper pool of London'?
AFAIK the Little Ice Age had impacts on the North Atlantic and the land masses on each side, which obviously includes the British Isles. The usual theory suggest that it lasted from the early C17th - C19th, but some climatologists argue for an earlier date, possibly in the C13th. I don't know, but I do understand that fast moving bodies of water do not freeze as quickly as slower moving ones. That's why the piers of the old London Bridge matter. They were closely spaced and debris/ice coming downstream could get stuck between them, restricting the flow and allowing ice to form more easily.
I'm nearly 70, and I grew up in central Scotlnd. All the things you describe sound very familiar ... but I'm less sceptical about 'todays generations'. Their elders (us) haven't made such a great job of managing things either.
tijuana taxi
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Because you were on school holiday presumably with parents to do the lifting and shifting.
Not so much fun for those of us at work, rather warm on the tube that year.
Craig1912
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What a weird thing to say. Tell you what, I won’t bother going to my sons graduation.If you have to drive, you have to, but your car will be emitting more of the stuff that's causing these changes to occur. Presumably you do understand that.....?
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“If you have to drive, you have to” what’s wrong with that? Sorry to hear you will miss your son’s graduation!
Craig1912
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It was the sarcastic nature of the response, the statement of the obvious and the head scratch emojI. Not sure why you felt the need to comment.
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Chill guys (if that's not an inappropriate response). Who's to say Craig's car isn't electric? Although all travel, even by horse, emits unpleasant exhaust or requires fuel that does so at source, so arguably we all need to stay in our home pods forever. Nett zero is am aim, rather than do nothing, though.
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Yes, it was a bit but I think he was motivated by the fact you were quoting a post decrying melting tarmac — which obviously won’t be mitigated by your air conditioning. I wonder if the tarmac is differently formulated in hot countries? I know it still melts in extreme conditions there but their extremes are higher,
Because “it was there”? But overall and ignoring the sarcasm I think his point was valid in that we should all be aware of how we are contributing to the problem otherwise we can’t get any change.
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Now you’ll start a series of rants about horses & cars
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whiteflyer
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Was the last ice fair on the Thames just after Krakatoa blew, which put so much dust in the air it cut sun light for a few year leading to colder temps, or is this something I think I saw on a TV doc once but I'm remembering wrong.
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whiteflyer
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Yes I was 16, and excess deaths in the UK went up 20% that year due to the heat.
I hadn't a clue, so I used the oracle (online resources) and looked it up! https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/the-last-thames-frost-fair/. According to this article it was 1814, but I liked the idea of Krakatoa's eruption being the cause. Pity ...
jerry12953
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No it wasn't sarcasm, it was genuine puzzlement. It wasn't clear from your post (I thought) that you genuinely had to do that journey for an obviously very good reason. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
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I think the difference between 2022 and 1976 - apart from the obvious effects of man-made climate change since 1976 - is that the summer of 1976 was very long and very dry, leading to drought conditions. I can remember holidaying in the west Highlands in early Sept that year and it was calm, sunny and mind-blowingly beautiful! But it may not have been excessively hot. This year it's just hot - I haven't heard any drought warnings yet although they could come.
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whiteflyer
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Yes 76 was the long dry summer, weeks at 30c but the temp maxed out at 36c today we are look at another 5 degrees hotter.
I live in Lancashire's Little Lake District and the reservoirs are getting low now.
I live in Lancashire's Little Lake District and the reservoirs are getting low now.
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RichardC27
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Only came here to post these charts but thankfully someone beat me to it. I cannot stand the doom and gloom, we're all going to be dead in a desertified Mad-Max style post apocalyptic wasteland by next Tuesday climate change narrative. The climate is always changing, and, as we can see from these charts, has been much warmer than it is now. Not much colder actually, not since the snowball earth period around 650m years ago. Yes climate change is real, yes things are getting warmer and yes I'm sure we're having an effect on this. But to say the world is going to be unihabitable in the next few hundred years just isn't true. Things will be different, but instead of our current, King Canute style strategy of trying to stop it, we need to adapt, and quickly.
The climate is changing rapidly, but this has happened before (immense, rapid cooling 375m years ago, followed by very rapid extreme warming 275m years ago). Interestingly, CO2 levels in the Jurassic period were around 1,400ppm, almost 4 times what they are today. I can only assume our Dinosaur ancestors loved travelling by car and plane...
Oh, and as I've said many times, electric cars are not the answer, they just move the emissions and environmental damage elsewhere, but it's very much still there.
RichardC27
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So this chart covers approximately 0.00034% of the Earth's history, and yet from this we can deduce we're all going to die next week from heat exhaustion. You can make a chart say anything you like if you mess with the scales enough. Taken over the past 500m years (still only 10% of Earth's history) then this is a minor blip, nothing more.
jerry12953
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I agree with your last sentence but as for the rest of the post, I think you're burying your head in the sand. We are already seeing the effects of anthropogenic climate change - forest fires in the Mediterranean regions of the world come to mind particularly because it is sign that the desert zones extending further from the equator. There have always been extreme weather events so it is difficult to separate them out from climate-change related events. However those that know are convinced that they are getting more severe and more frequent.
What you haven't taken into account is that the fact that the carbon emissions we have already emitted are starting to cause atmospheric heating and will continue to do so for many years to come, and globally we haven't even BEGUN to reduce them. They are still being pumped out in massive quantities.
WE (that's us old folk) may be OK, but it's our children, and our children's children, that are going to suffer, and the rest of life on the planet. The graphs may show that climate has been very different in the past but what was the planet like then, compared to the verdant and life-filled beauty that it is now?
the black fox
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Up here on the north wales coast it was 30 degrees at 11.20 when I took the wife shopping , nice breeze developing with the incoming tide .
And driving back through town it looks like it’s been declared tit Monday as well LOL
And driving back through town it looks like it’s been declared tit Monday as well LOL
RichardC27
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It was teeming with life, most of it much bigger and more impressive than what we have now, from what we can deduce from the fossil record.
Again, look at the chart showing the temperature profile for the past 500m years. I'm not burying my head in the sand at all. The climate is definitely changing and warming. There's a difference between climate change denial, and actually looking at the data and seeing that both the rate of change (rapid) and the actual temperature (still pretty cold) aren't anywhere near the apocalyptic levels it's presented as.
Yes desert zones are extending, and glaciers are retreating. But this isn't unusual. That's my point. The Earth hasn't always been how it is now, although we can't seem to get our head around that and have this weird need to try and preserve it, whilst simultaneously ripping every resource possible out of it and colonising every usable inch of it.
Earth having ice caps at both poles simultaneously isn't the usual state of things. There shouldn't be glaciers near the equator. Now, given that as a species we have evolved into a rather cold climate and then spread from our equitorial home range and absolutely exploded in numbers, then this is a bit of a problem for us. But for the planet it's fine, really no issue and nothing out of the ordinary. Habitat loss, intensive agriculture, overfishing, deforestation, all of these things need urgent attention. But for some reason people are fixated on the climate, the one thing that's in a constant state of flux anyway.
None of this means we can keep burning fossil fuels as we do now either. That's clearly unsustainable and something we need to move away from rapidly. Again, I'm not a climate change denier, I just don't see that for the planet as a whole it's much of a problem, given how warm it's been in the past. It'll just be different, and us, along with every other species need to evolve and adapt or die out. For those species that can't adapt, others will evolve to take their place.
You say extreme weather is getting more frequent, but compared to when? 1880 onwards? That's nothing. We have no idea what the weather was like 3,000, or 10,000, or 50,000 years ago. It's only extreme compared to the 0.00034% of Earth's history we use as our baseline. The other 99.99976% of time is discounted for some reason when all of these sweeping pronouncements about how screwed we are are made.
Edit: Is extreme weather getting more frequent? Again, for one type of extreme weather, that isn't what the data shows. Quite the opposite. A rather inconvenient truth...
Tropical cyclones now ‘13% less frequent’ due to climate change - Carbon Brief
Climate change has driven a 13% decline in the frequency of tropical cyclones since pre-industrial...
www.carbonbrief.org
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1) Corona Virus is apparently killed by heat.
The earths way of sorting out our mess.
2) I assume a reduction in people traveling in this heat .
Earth way of reducing emissions, which allegedly caused this predicted 2 day heat wave.
Of course that was written tongue in cheek ...
But in reality, every time I step outside, something or other takes another lump out of my leg or arm.
They'll be laughing the other side of their fangs when the frosts arrive.
The earths way of sorting out our mess.
2) I assume a reduction in people traveling in this heat .
Earth way of reducing emissions, which allegedly caused this predicted 2 day heat wave.
Of course that was written tongue in cheek ...
But in reality, every time I step outside, something or other takes another lump out of my leg or arm.
They'll be laughing the other side of their fangs when the frosts arrive.
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I really don’t see what your problem is since you agree we have to change various practices (too many to list!) and claiming that climatologists & Co are saying we’ll all die tomorrow smacks of the sort of rhetoric used by br**xit**rsIt was teeming with life, most of it much bigger and more impressive than what we have now, from what we can deduce from the fossil record.
Again, look at the chart showing the temperature profile for the past 500m years. I'm not burying my head in the sand at all. The climate is definitely changing and warming. There's a difference between climate change denial, and actually looking at the data and seeing that both the rate of change (rapid) and the actual temperature (still pretty cold) aren't anywhere near the apocalyptic levels it's presented as.
Yes desert zones are extending, and glaciers are retreating. But this isn't unusual. That's my point. The Earth hasn't always been how it is now, although we can't seem to get our head around that and have this weird need to try and preserve it, whilst simultaneously ripping every resource possible out of it and colonising every usable inch of it.
Earth having ice caps at both poles simultaneously isn't the usual state of things. There shouldn't be glaciers near the equator. Now, given that as a species we have evolved into a rather cold climate and then spread from our equitorial home range and absolutely exploded in numbers, then this is a bit of a problem for us. But for the planet it's fine, really no issue and nothing out of the ordinary. Habitat loss, intensive agriculture, overfishing, deforestation, all of these things need urgent attention. But for some reason people are fixated on the climate, the one thing that's in a constant state of flux anyway.
None of this means we can keep burning fossil fuels as we do now either. That's clearly unsustainable and something we need to move away from rapidly. Again, I'm not a climate change denier, I just don't see that for the planet as a whole it's much of a problem, given how warm it's been in the past. It'll just be different, and us, along with every other species need to evolve and adapt or die out. For those species that can't adapt, others will evolve to take their place.
You say extreme weather is getting more frequent, but compared to when? 1880 onwards? That's nothing. We have no idea what the weather was like 3,000, or 10,000, or 50,000 years ago. It's only extreme compared to the 0.00034% of Earth's history we use as our baseline. The other 99.99976% of time is discounted for some reason when all of these sweeping pronouncements about how screwed we are are made.
Edit: Is extreme weather getting more frequent? Again, for one type of extreme weather, that isn't what the data shows. Quite the opposite. A rather inconvenient truth...
Tropical cyclones now ‘13% less frequent’ due to climate change - Carbon Brief
Climate change has driven a 13% decline in the frequency of tropical cyclones since pre-industrial...
.It’s not really correct to say we have “no idea” what the climate was like 3k - 30k rears ago and it’s odd your saying that while making (mostly correct) statements about the climate in the Jurassic etc
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myotis
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Mmmm, dodgy research papers (or the dodgy interpretation of them).
When that 97% first hit the media it came from Cook et al (2013)
In spite of the well publicised conclusion that 97.1% of climate scientists supported climate change being man made, they hadn't actually asked any scientists for their opinion.
Their approach was to to review abstracts from scientific papers on climate change and extract the abstracts that endorsed climate change being man made.
Two thirds of the abstracts they reviewed made no mention of man made influence on climate change.
Of the remaining third, 97.1% of the abstracts had content they interpreted as endorsing climate change being man made.
But examples of what they interpreted as an endorsement included phrases in the abstract such as: ‘. . . carbon sequestration in soil is important for mitigating global climate change’.
I struggle to follow how this endorses the view that climate change is man made, and question the credibility of that, often quoted, 97% figure.
I'm not using this as an argument for or against man made climate change, but as a reflection on how often "scientifically derived facts" may not always warrant the confidence we sometimes place in them. Regardless of whether it endorses or questions anthropogenically driven climate change.
As I have posted before, I'm a bit sceptical about climate change being "driven" by anthropogenic activity, but this doesn't in any way detract from the need to take urgent action. Which, I think it needs to look beyond simply reducing CO2 emissions.
The paper abstract is below:
Abstract We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11 944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics ‘global climate change’ or ‘global warming’. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus. For both abstract ratings and authors’ self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research.
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Yes, but huddling together in air conditioned cars and buildings is going to help the virus — cunning little beggar*.1) Corona Virus is apparently killed by heat.
The earths way of sorting out our mess.
2) I assume a reduction in people traveling in this heat .
Earth way of reducing emissions, which allegedly caused this predicted 2 day heat wave.
Of course that was written tongue in cheek ...
But in reality, every time I step outside, something or other takes another lump out of my leg or arm.
They'll be laughing the other side of their fangs when the frosts arrive.
* the virus not you.
jerry12953
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I get where you're coming from. If our concern is for the planet in an astronomical sense, it will survive no matter what we do to it (barring nuclear obliteration perhaps), but if our concern is for human society as it currently is or the biosphere as it currently is, the planet is going down the pan pretty rapidly according to most of the sources that I trust.It was teeming with life, most of it much bigger and more impressive than what we have now, from what we can deduce from the fossil record.
Again, look at the chart showing the temperature profile for the past 500m years. I'm not burying my head in the sand at all. The climate is definitely changing and warming. There's a difference between climate change denial, and actually looking at the data and seeing that both the rate of change (rapid) and the actual temperature (still pretty cold) aren't anywhere near the apocalyptic levels it's presented as.
Yes desert zones are extending, and glaciers are retreating. But this isn't unusual. That's my point. The Earth hasn't always been how it is now, although we can't seem to get our head around that and have this weird need to try and preserve it, whilst simultaneously ripping every resource possible out of it and colonising every usable inch of it.
Earth having ice caps at both poles simultaneously isn't the usual state of things. There shouldn't be glaciers near the equator. Now, given that as a species we have evolved into a rather cold climate and then spread from our equitorial home range and absolutely exploded in numbers, then this is a bit of a problem for us. But for the planet it's fine, really no issue and nothing out of the ordinary. Habitat loss, intensive agriculture, overfishing, deforestation, all of these things need urgent attention. But for some reason people are fixated on the climate, the one thing that's in a constant state of flux anyway.
None of this means we can keep burning fossil fuels as we do now either. That's clearly unsustainable and something we need to move away from rapidly. Again, I'm not a climate change denier, I just don't see that for the planet as a whole it's much of a problem, given how warm it's been in the past. It'll just be different, and us, along with every other species need to evolve and adapt or die out. For those species that can't adapt, others will evolve to take their place.
You say extreme weather is getting more frequent, but compared to when? 1880 onwards? That's nothing. We have no idea what the weather was like 3,000, or 10,000, or 50,000 years ago. It's only extreme compared to the 0.00034% of Earth's history we use as our baseline. The other 99.99976% of time is discounted for some reason when all of these sweeping pronouncements about how screwed we are are made.
Edit: Is extreme weather getting more frequent? Again, for one type of extreme weather, that isn't what the data shows. Quite the opposite. A rather inconvenient truth...
Tropical cyclones now ‘13% less frequent’ due to climate change - Carbon Brief
Climate change has driven a 13% decline in the frequency of tropical cyclones since pre-industrial...
Dave Canon
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In the 1970's, I remember reading an article in New Scientist about how were we destroying the planet. The key issue was singled out as too many people. The large numbers of people pollute the planet & consume the limited resources. They described what a future might be like in the UK if we did nothing but showed two alternatives, a population allowed to grow to 500M where almost all of the country will be covered in high rise buildings but where would our food come from? Secondly by strictly controlling and reducing the population to 10M there would be plenty of space for living recreation and food production. It does seem obvious that if the world population had been kept much lower, there would be no need to curb flights, motoring etc. Unfortunately, apart from the Chinese for a while, no one else took any notice so we are in trouble. If left unchecked, it is likely that a large portion of the population will be wiped out by war or disease. It may be that my generation is most at fault as the signs were there then but politicians did nothing and perhaps we did not press them. There are no easy solutions.
Dave
Dave
RichardC27
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Well I'm a staunch remainer so you'll have to get me on something other than the B word.I really don’t see what your problem is since you agree we have to change various practices (too many to list!) and claiming that climatologists & Co are saying we’ll all die tomorrow smacks of the sort of rhetoric used by br**xit**rs
It’s not really correct to say we have “no idea” what the climate was like 3k - 30k rears ago and it’s odd your saying that while making (mostly correct) statements about the climate in the Jurassic etc
I said we don't know what the weather was like. We have a reasonably good idea of what the climate was but we can't identify individual extreme weather events from sediment and ice cores. Weather and climate are different but connected things.
My problem is the doom and gloom, the earth is going to be uninhabitable nonsense, and the fact that anyone who questions this and actually looks at the data, which shows everything is fine, is shouted down as a climate change denying heretic. It annoys me that the actual issues don't get anything like the attention they should because everyone is obsessed with climate change.
Fossil fuels are obviously unsustainable, because they'll run out one day. Nobody has yet told me how mining Lithium out of the ground, transporting it halfway round the world on a bloody great ship, turning it into a battery that will wear out and putting that into a car that weighs 3 tonnes is any more sustainable than turning oil into petrol, but I'm going to be forced to drive an electric car in years to come.
People in the news saying today's temperatures in the UK are "scary". Its a bit hot, in July, for 48 hours. It's going to be 18 degrees and cloudy on Wednesday.
RichardC27
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I think 8 billion people on the planet is completely and utterly unsustainable no matter what we do. There are simply too many people and not enough resources to sustain them, nevermind everything else that lives here.
How we solve that I don't know, but maybe a warming climate is a way of balancing this out and forcing a population reduction over the next few hundred years
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Oh I dunno
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You can’t be a Remainer now, only a remoaner or rejoined
Sorry for your loss, and mine, and everybody’s!Yes I broadly agree and missed you were saying “weather”. But I still disagree with the “br*xity” style of arguing citing doom and gloom merchants. No doubt there are some but that’s not the generality. The trouble with interjecting reasonable criticisms like yours of leccy batteries is that they are ceased upon by the deniers as an argument for doing nothing.
RichardC27
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I'll just leave this here, which kind of proves my point about doom and gloom...You can’t be a Remainer now, only a remoaner or rejoined
Yes I broadly agree and missed you were saying “weather”. But I still disagree with the “br*xity” style of arguing citing doom and gloom merchants. No doubt there are some but that’s not the generality. The trouble with interjecting reasonable criticisms like yours of leccy batteries is that they are ceased upon by the deniers as an argument for doing nothing.
Humanity faces ‘collective suicide’ over climate crisis, warns UN chief
António Guterres tells governments ‘half of humanity is in danger zone’, as countries battle extreme heat
www.theguardian.com
Doing nothing isn't an option, but we need to adapt rather than spend the next 50 years trying to stop the inevitable. Maybe if we hadn't chopped so many trees down around the world over the last 1,000 years we wouldn't be in a situation of rising CO2 levels. Even though as we've seen, CO2 levels are historically quite low and well within normal range.
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jerry12953
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It's quite chastening to realise that the species that we are part of is collectively wrecking the planet that nurtured us.
jerry12953
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Having just stepped across from my "office" the four yards to the rest of the house the only parallel I can think of is when I was in Namibia about 20 years ago. I had driven a hired car about 100 miles with aircon on full tilt , stopped to go to a shop, and opened the car door ..........
jakeblu
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Oh wow, you should send these charts to NASA and other climatology centres, I'm sure they soon realise what a mistake they've made..................
Wrong Again: 50 Years of Failed Eco-pocalyptic Predictions - Competitive Enterprise Institute
Modern doomsayers have been predicting climate and environmental disaster since the 1960s. They continue to do so today. None of the apocalyptic predictions with due dates as of today have come true. What follows is a collection of notably wild predictions from notable people in government and...cei.org
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I well remember it, as was working in a glasshouse most of the day.
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Oh I dunno
Having met Chris, I can honestly state that he's not...
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little!
RichardC27
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What's wrong with them? They just put the usual 1880 onwards charts that are always used to show a warming climate in some sort of context, over 11,000 and 500,000,000 years. Both charts show a warming climate at present. They just show it's not an issue in the grand scheme of things. The 1880 onwards chart is a bit like sticking your head out of the window now for 5 seconds and concluding its always sunny and 35 degrees in the UK. Whereas if you measured the temperature over a year you'd see it's not the case. Your measurement of right now wouldn't be wrong, it's just such a tiny sample that you can't really draw any sweeping generalisations from it.Oh wow, you should send these charts to NASA and other climatology centres, I'm sure they soon realise what a mistake they've made..................
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the black fox
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Any one fancy coming round to cut my lawns .. to bloody hot to do it myself