Having problems at Uni... help?

Sophy - that's a rotten position to be in and I really sympathise!

As far as the course content is concerned, I know of several people who've started on a course and then found it wasn't what they expected. That may because they didn't interpret the course details correctly - or because the course wasn't accurately described in the prospectus.

I also know 2 people with photography degrees (different unis) who both thought their courses were out of touch with modern requirements and their lecturers each had their own opinions which seemed to be based on what they like rather than what might be useful for the student.

The fact that your portfolio contained a variety of genres (wildlife, sport and landscape) may have lead the interviewing tutor to take your 'I want to be a wildlife photographer' rather too lightly, and assumed you may have said it because you thought it was the 'right' thing to say to impress them. :suspect:

If you change unis next September I guess you will probably have to start year 1 again, since the course content is likely to be different and done in a different order. It's something you'd have to clarify with your 'new' uni, if you go down that path. I don't know what would happen to funding in that case.

Are there options/choices of modules in the second and third years? The Uni blurb does say they use a studio-based teaching approach, but might there be the chance for you to do some of your assignments on location? If you have a personal/course tutor it would be a good idea to talk to him/her.

There are a lot of people who take photography degrees who end up working in other areas but the fact that they have a degree helps them get started. If you do decide to 'drop out', have a very clear plan of how you're going to make your dreams happen.

If nothing else, 3 years at uni will give you a chance to hone your technical skills, practice, practice, practice - and, very importantly, make contacts, enter any relevant competitions, student awards etc, get membership of a professional body and build your portfolio.

Good luck with whatever you decide - you're doing the right thing in taking time to think about it and ask for advice. :)

Jean
 
Kaolin said:
As some spending there evening writing a lecture, this is a rather simply view of the world. There are many reasons to want to be an academic rather than simply the inability to get a job. Personally I never wanted to be a cog in the corporate system. :razz:

Additionally many academics do do a lot of consultancy, which is basically selling our skills back to industry.
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I did say 'not all', but put it this way i'm a countryside proffesional and while i have encountered many lecturers in countryside skills who have excellent skills (probably theoretrically better than mine) but i've never encountered a full time one who could cut it in the real world because none of them seem to have a good apreciation of what real countryside work is like - with the result that they turn out graduates who also dont have a clue.

The only ones who do seem to know what they are talking about are the guest/part time lecturers who actually get out of the ivory towers of academe from time to time to work in the real world

Likewise in the OPs case its clear that her lecturers have no idea what wildlife photography involves - yes i guess you could say it just involves pointing your camera and getting the shot (which could be said for many fields of photography at the end of the day) but getting to that point requires an indepth understanding of the behaviour of the quarry, and excellent feild craft skills - for them to dismiss this as amateur or lacking in skill is patently ridiculous, and the chances are that the reason they do is because they don't get outside the classroom and actually try it
 
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As to there being no skill in wildlife photography - the Last three or four Attenborough series have given a bit of time over to showing how the programs were made. Some of the stuff is truly remarkable.
 
MnM said:
I've got to agree with big soft moose and having had a look at Andy Rouse's website then I guess you need to decide if your money and time would be better spent booking a number of courses with the likes of Andy. I would hazzard a guess that if we both started at the same point and you did a year in uni and I spent my time on courses like the ones below, that I would be a more capable wildlife photographer than you.

Ideally for a more rounded experience I'd consider trying to afford to do both - although having put a son through uni I know that money pays a major part in your choices and that is probably not practicable
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Lol - one thing i would say is that Andy is something of an acquired taste - He's basically an 'essex boy' (in stereotypical terms) and isnt afraid to call a spade a 'king shovel.

If you are easily offended he isn't the course for you as he doesnt pull his punches , I remember once many years ago showing him my portfolio and getting the response " well its technically okay but its so sickeningly cutesy it makes me want to puke, why dont you go the whole way and hire some puppies to peak out of a basket ! "

If you can live with the abrasive personality his courses are great but they arent for everyone (his books such as " Life in the wild a wildlife photographers year", "Living landscapes", and "Concepts of nature" are well worth a look)

I'm a big boy and can both take it and give it and to be honest he was right and my portfolio became a lot stronger after his critique

However if you are of a more delicate disposition i'd suggest dipping your toe in the water with a wild arena workshop with david southard and peter smart, both are good togs (if not in Andy's league) and they are somewhat more tactful when giving feedback
 
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i just wonder what this mental block is with the whole university thing anyway.

i mean, if you want to learn wildlife photography and be a wildlife photographer, why don't you just go out there and take some pictures of some wildlife?

the cost of going to a safari park and travelling around would surly be significantly less than the cost of a university qualification which as you've discovered isn't really what you want to do.

but in anycase, surely a prospective employer is going to judge you not on some magical photography degree that a 1000 other people have, but on the quality of your portfolio, which has the potential of being absolutely fantastic or a complete turd whether you have a degree or not. having a photography degree will not make you a good photographer.

i actually get quite frustrated by the whole system of academia leading students up the well trodden path of university (mainly because that's all most teachers actually know).

let's face it, your photography lecturers are photography lecturers most likely because they don't have what it takes to actually be a professional photographer and learn a living from it. if this is true, then how can you expect them to teach you this?

truth is, you just need to go out and learn for yourself, build your own portfolio and learn from other photographers actually out there in the field doing what you want to do.

you might get the technical knowledge and theory from a university course, but you can learn that in the field at your own pace, in your own way.

i kind of get the impression that some people think that university is a quick fix button that as soon as you get this degree you are somehow instantly employable and somehow have all the skills.
 
gramps said:
Fascinating, maybe they could take you out to a bird in flight session and demonstrate this 'point and shoot' method.
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It's an old but often true adage, which may be applied here.

"If you can't do it, teach it"

.
 
@cuthbert - true and lets face it if the OP does make it as a wildlife btog they are going to be self employed anyway and the clients wont give a **** if they went to uni or not , only what the images are like.

that said personally I'd advise getting out and actually shooting wild wildlife rather than zoos and safari parks - the cost of a uni course could fiund an overseas trip to get some new and ground breaking images.

(the other thing i'd say about this is that 'everyone' photographs polar bears, big cats, heffalumps etc - to make it as a wildlife tog they need to find either a new angle on a big species - or a lesser appreciated species, as the market for 'yes its a leopard sitting in a tree... yawn' is pretty much glutted )
 
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big soft moose said:
I did say 'not all', but put it this way i'm a countryside proffesional and while i have encountered many lecturers in countryside skills who have excellent skills (probably theoretrically better than mine) but i've never encountered a full time one who could cut it in the real world because none of them seem to have a good apreciation of what real countryside work is like - with the result that they turn out graduates who also dont have a clue.
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I actually agree with you completely there are plenty of not very good lecturers in the system.

big soft moose said:
@cuthbert - true and lets face it if the OP does make it as a wildlife btog they are going to be self employed anyway and the clients wont give a **** if they went to uni or not , only what the images are like.

that said personally I'd advise getting out and actually shooting wild wildlife rather than zoos and safari parks - the cost of a uni course could fiund an overseas trip to get some new and ground breaking images.

(the other thing i'd say about this is that 'everyone' photographs polar bears, big cats, heffalumps etc - to make it as a wildlife tog they need to find either a new angle on a big species - or a lesser appreciated species, as the market for 'yes its a leopard sitting in a tree... yawn' is pretty much glutted )
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This is the crux of the solution, nobody will care if you have a degree or not, they will care out the quality of your images. But I suspect the real skill in taking the images, is all in the right place and the right time, I doubt that is taught anywhere. The skill in making a successful living is being able to provide a product that someone wants to buy and again not any easy thing to teach or learn.
 
If you want to make money out of wildlife as a photographer, become a videographer/cameraman. The really money is in broadcast rather than stills.
 
daugirdas said:
I think it is one of a career pathways that you may want to solely focus on later on, but for now concentrate on learning the principles, and gaining a good all round understanding.
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surely it is this ^

whatever fraction of photography you choose to specialize in.

Its like taking a plumbing course but only wanting to fit taps..
Tbh, I'd probably want to give the drains a miss too but I guess we can't be proficient plumbers without learning both..:)

Having said that, the lecturers sound like arses, its not that hard to be right and not be an arse at the same time.
 
ALL photography is "point and shoot", the only factor which sets the great from the also rans is the ability to get the right shot.
Great wildlife photography takes time and effort, and often a lot of money to travel, whereas macro, sports, portrait all require skill, but can be done on your doorstep.
 
That's outrageous! A BA (Hons) Photography course is supposed to prepare you to follow any chosen route ~ including wildlife photography! Perhaps flick thru wildlife magazines & show photographs that inspire you to your lecturers, tell them about how you want to learn specific techniques?

Best wishes Ebony.
 
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joxby said:
surely it is this ^

whatever fraction of photography you choose to specialize in.

Its like taking a plumbing course but only wanting to fit taps..
Tbh, I'd probably want to give the drains a miss too but I guess we can't be proficient plumbers without learning both..:)

Having said that, the lecturers sound like arses, its not that hard to be right and not be an arse at the same time.
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This is spot on - take is from a fine art photography graduate who tried too late to change courses in her second year!
I stupidly tried to stick it out to see if the second year would get better and then tried to change institutions in the March of that year. They were reticent due to the caliber of teaching at my institution and also the fact that the dissertation was looming!

My advice would be to research the RIGHT course for you and transfer BEFORE your second year really kicks off, if deep down you know that this course isn't right for you. You need to get the basics down; your Uni may be the right place for that, it may not.

As for an encouraging environment to explore passions and projects, well it's sink or swim against the attitudes that your lecturers display but that is entirely up to you. Your degree is what you make it..and where you make it.

Best of luck!
 
I don't think that many students are in a position to get 27 grand and go off photographing around the world. Most students borrow the fee costs from the student loans compnay.

Also ,to the OP; with student loans England all individuals are allowed 3 years plus 1 gift (drop) year of higher education student loan for fees and maintanance. So you could drop out and still borrow the full amount for a 3 year degree course. Unless of course you come from a wealthy circumstance!
 
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I expect the OP is finding the same as I have found in my BA Hons Photography course (different uni) which is that although billed as a commercial degree it's not, it's an arts degree.

Obvious by the fact that its a Bachelor of ART maybe but the course we are on was definitely sold to us being a very commercial degree with commercial basings.

The problem is that our degree is a joint venture between a uni and a college (you do HND through the college then into 3rd year as a uni student but still study at the college as the uni has no photography dept.) and is delivered by a mixture of staff from both institutions.

The college staff are great but very out of touch with what is happening in the photography industry (ie in 2 years of HND we never learned what we should be charging for jobs, things like wedding photography were very much put down as a lower form of photography despite it being pretty much the most profitable type of photography around, we had a photojournalism unit but we were never introduced to software like photomechanic or things like FTP) and the uni staff are very much from an arts background, the other courses they teach are things like Digital Art.

To the OP I'd say, stick it out. If you are really into photography then you should at least find the course enjoyable, I certainly couldn't have stuck 4 years in any other subject. You might even find that your involvement in photography grows beyond wildlife, I used to be very much a gear junkie or camera geek, only interested in making images as big and sharp and fast as I could but since progressing onto the degree course I have found myself getting more involved in the art side of things, perhaps by necessity rather than choice at first but I really enjoy what I'm doing just now. Well, other than the dissertation I have to write!
 
DemiLion said:
If you want to make money out of wildlife as a photographer, become a videographer/cameraman. The really money is in broadcast rather than stills.
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Good point. Certainly learn video discipline as well as stills. Your camera can do it, no reason not to :)


OP: a few things.

1) it's all about your work. Make the course your own, prove your lecturers wrong.

2) get yourself on twitter. There's quite a few young and very promising wildlife photographers / videographers who seem to have a bit of a community, as well as getting occasional advice from a variety of pros (inc the lot who just shot frozen planet...) drop me a line if you need pointing in their direction.

3)I think that maybe more than with anything else, with wildlife, it's going to be ALL about your time in the field. Keep pushing on - ignore the uni BS if needed, set yourself goals and keep shooting - uni courses are fantastic at demotivating people completely!

absolute best of luck :)

if you want some inspiration, check out some of the stuff that overall badass Gavin Thurston's done: http://www.gavinthurston.com/#/curriculum-vitae/4512882260

a great Q+A with him here too: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/hm9rx/iama_wildlife_cameraman_who_has_worked_on_human/
 
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I agree with the sentiment that the photography course should give you the foundations to be a "good all round photographer" you can then choose your path afterwards.

I don't agree that the lecturers should then weight the course in favour of what is comfortable or classical or easy to do.

Surely in today's current environment, we would hope our education system was arming students with he tools to do a good job.

Shooting a great landscape has as much to do with having the right boots on, timing and reading a map and planning as it has to do with photography. Any lecturer who doesn't understand that sentiment IMHO should not be teaching.

Landscapes, nature, sports, journalism, documentary work, even weddings - all require getting out of the comfort zone of a warm studio and delivering in a dynamic environment.

Businesses as we know all require you to make money in order to survive. so I would expect students to learn basic business skills too

In my experience so far, degree educated photographers know a lot about classical composition and history, and know very little about batteries dying on you in the middle of nowhere because the temp's dropped etc..
 
Kaolin said:
As some spending there evening writing a lecture, this is a rather simply view of the world. There are many reasons to want to be an academic rather than simply the inability to get a job. Personally I never wanted to be a cog in the corporate system. :razz:

Additionally many academics do do a lot of consultancy, which is basically selling our skills back to industry.
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There is nothing wrong with being an academic - we do need them - however, ultimately, it is the money generated by the corporate world that pays for the academics via taxation, and employees taxation

In today's world, our first prioritory is to be churning out world class employees armed with the skills THEY NEED and WE NEED that can go and earn a living and generate wealth

Give me a photographer that can nail a shoot - any shoot on first principles every time, not one that knows that in 1830 la la la artist did this because the light was that and in the past it was like that

The nation is in too much poo to be paying to churnin out wooly headed romanticised thinkers that produce zilch
 
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Just take the grumpy old wotsits to the wildlife photographer of the year exhibition- some truely awe inspiring images on show!
 
Hi Sophy,

The first thing I'd recommend is that you find out who your course rep is and contact them... There should be one (or two) for your year. It would also help to speak to one of the final year course reps as well and put your concerns to them.

My daughter is doing a BA(Hons) in photography in Wolverhampton and she wants to specialise in motorsport photography which is a tough nut to crack! She gets really frustrated 'cos all they seem to want to do at the moment is studio and film work (it's not that she doesn't like it but she's not seeing the relevance at the moment - although she will eventually). ;)

She's a member on here (her username is NatMoore) and she's also the course rep for her year (she's a fresher too). If you drop her a message, she's probably more able to offer some advice than the rest of us 'cos she's actually in the same boat to a degree! (pardon the pun).

Hope that helps,
Si
 
Sophy,

I know a couple of guys at the BBC NHU in Bristol who have worked on various productions such as Autumn/Spring watch, Great Barrier Reef and the last 3 David Attenborough series. They all do stills and video for the shows, and not one of them studied photography or media. Most of them studied Zoology or something similar and some just went along for a bit of work experience and got lucky!

Whilst the photography qualification seems the obvious one when you're filling in the UCAS forms, it's possibly not the most ideal when you get down to business.

Perhaps try and get a bit of work experience this summer? If you like you can PM me and I'll see if I can help at all with some useful contacts.
 
I'm in my 3rd year of a multimedia course. (Jack of all trades master of none) :cool:

It's very easy to get frustrated with the direction you are going in the first year. With respect you can't just say I will be this or that in the first year. As was mentioned you need the roots of the photographic skills to be able to branch out in the next year and then your final year, where you will be able to do what you really want.

My final year project is a little left field to what my tutor was expecting and at first he said no. But with measured argument, he eventually said yes. With hindsight I wish he said no, cos it's a chit load of work.

If you can steer a module to the kind of work that you enjoy, all the better. If you can't no matter as it's honing your skills. Make the most of it as it will go very quickly.
 
Richard King said:
There is nothing wrong with being an academic - we do need them - however, ultimately, it is the money generated by the corporate world that pays for the academics via taxation, and employees taxation

In today's world, our first prioritory is to be churning out world class employees armed with the skills THEY NEED and WE NEED that can go and earn a living and generate wealth

Give me a photographer that can nail a shoot - any shoot on first principles every time, not one that knows that in 1830 la la la artist did this because the light was that and in the past it was like that

The nation is in too much poo to be paying to churnin out wooly headed romanticised thinkers that produce zilch
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That may be true for arts academics, but definitely not the case for the sciences.
 
Thank you for all the comments and advice, I really do appreciate it. I think I will stick it out and focus on my wildlife after finishing the course like many of you suggested, but take a few wildlife training courses while i'm here aswell.

I will also contact some wildlife photographers for tips aswell as enter some competitions, hopefully it will boost my understanding of wildlife photography.

Thank you all again!
 
Spiritflier said:
Hi Sophy,

The first thing I'd recommend is that you find out who your course rep is and contact them... There should be one (or two) for your year. It would also help to speak to one of the final year course reps as well and put your concerns to them.

My daughter is doing a BA(Hons) in photography in Wolverhampton and she wants to specialise in motorsport photography which is a tough nut to crack! She gets really frustrated 'cos all they seem to want to do at the moment is studio and film work (it's not that she doesn't like it but she's not seeing the relevance at the moment - although she will eventually). ;)

She's a member on here (her username is NatMoore) and she's also the course rep for her year (she's a fresher too). If you drop her a message, she's probably more able to offer some advice than the rest of us 'cos she's actually in the same boat to a degree! (pardon the pun).

Hope that helps,
Si
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Will give her a shout, thank you! :)
 
jimbobtog said:
Sophy,

I know a couple of guys at the BBC NHU in Bristol who have worked on various productions such as Autumn/Spring watch, Great Barrier Reef and the last 3 David Attenborough series. They all do stills and video for the shows, and not one of them studied photography or media. Most of them studied Zoology or something similar and some just went along for a bit of work experience and got lucky!

Whilst the photography qualification seems the obvious one when you're filling in the UCAS forms, it's possibly not the most ideal when you get down to business.

Perhaps try and get a bit of work experience this summer? If you like you can PM me and I'll see if I can help at all with some useful contacts.
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Sounds great, i'll pm you :) cheers!
 
Richard King said:
Give me a photographer that can nail a shoot - any shoot on first principles every time, not one that knows that in 1830 la la la artist did this because the light was that and in the past it was like that
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A true postmodernist perspective and a valid one. But tell that to Stephen Bayley and he may throttle you.

However. To get that contract you need to show the customer that you know the history of your chosen profession (if asked) If you aren't asked, the confidence of knowing the history will be a benefit when bidding for a contract.

The impact of this knowledge will have less of an effect as the years go by, what with viral marketing and online portfolios / blogs / opinion.

I have to say my final year is immaterial for me. I know that I will have to start my own business due to my age. It's all good practice for going back out into the big wide world.
 
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jimbobtog said:
Sophy,

I know a couple of guys at the BBC NHU in Bristol who have worked on various productions such as Autumn/Spring watch, Great Barrier Reef and the last 3 David Attenborough series. They all do stills and video for the shows, and not one of them studied photography or media. Most of them studied Zoology or something similar and some just went along for a bit of work experience and got lucky!

Perhaps try and get a bit of work experience this summer? If you like you can PM me and I'll see if I can help at all with some useful contacts.
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wow, bite this man's hand off!
 
Ebony said:
Thank you for all the comments and advice, I really do appreciate it. I think I will stick it out and focus on my wildlife after finishing the course like many of you suggested, but take a few wildlife training courses while i'm here aswell.

I will also contact some wildlife photographers for tips aswell as enter some competitions, hopefully it will boost my understanding of wildlife photography.

Thank you all again!
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That sounds a good way forward, Sophy. You may find other areas of photography that interest you as well as wildlife. It's good to have more than one string to your bow - especially when you're aiming for the stars. :)

Very best of luck! :thumbs:

Jean
 
Ebony said:
Thank you for all the comments and advice, I really do appreciate it. I think I will stick it out and focus on my wildlife after finishing the course like many of you suggested, but take a few wildlife training courses while i'm here aswell.

I will also contact some wildlife photographers for tips aswell as enter some competitions, hopefully it will boost my understanding of wildlife photography.

Thank you all again!
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First year university can be great, a trial, or both! I have good and bad memories of it.

FWIW, I think you're making the right decision. Complete the course - you're young, and some of the things you learn might come in useful later on - and grab every opportunity you can to pursue your ambitions.

I have a friend who is a professional wildlife photographer in South Africa, and know a couple of people who do it part time. It's quite a tough field to earn a living in.

Good luck.
 
jimbobtog said:
I know a couple of guys at the BBC NHU in Bristol who have worked on various productions such as Autumn/Spring watch, Great Barrier Reef and the last 3 David Attenborough series. They all do stills and video for the shows, and not one of them studied photography or media. Most of them studied Zoology or something similar and some just went along for a bit of work experience and got lucky!
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That's pretty much what I'd expect. Some quick Googling doesn't find that any of the "how to be a wildlife photographer articles" (e.g. BBC) recommends a photography degree.

I suspect your on the wrong bus if that's your destination (same for motorsport).
 
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