Have Nikon shot themselves in the foot with the D4?

Flash In The Pan

Flash In The Pan

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Nikon's new D4, as anyone with an interest in such things will know, comes with one CF slot and one for the new XQD card type, developed jointly between Nikon, Sony and Sandisk.

Sandisk have, however, now stated that they will not be producing cards in this format and neither it seems will another of the main players, Lexar. This leaves Sony as the sole card supplier, with a 16GB card slated to cost $130, which will probably translate to near enough the same in pounds in the UK

The question therefore is, have Nikon jumped the gun with the D4 and does it mean they may end up having to rush out a D4s in a few months time to restore the dual CF slot system?

Memories of Betamax.....
 
Can't help thinking it was a backwards step having two different card formats in the same camera anyway, doesn't really make life easier. When I had a D300S it was a pain having two different sorts of cards on the go, thought they'd realised their mistake when the D7000 sported identical SD slots but now this...
 
I don't think it's any more than a minor annoyance for me, sure I'd have preferred the old twin CF slots but I'm not rushing to cancel my order just for this.
 
The type of customer who can afford the D4 is not the type who would worry about a few more quid on the cost of a card (and prices will probably fall off after the initial rush)
 
Two card slots of differing types is a bit balmy to me:lol: - But its not a huge issue imho and its a minor negative to what seems like a nice bit of kit - Maybe it was part of a bigger deal with Sony - I mean they are in bed together in so much more than flash memory;)
 
The new format is faster and allows more RAW images to be recorded which is clearly an advantage. Having 2 CF plus the XQD would be ideal and as the XQD is so small it would be doable.....
 
The XQD card is the reason that the D4 can shoot a burst of 100 RAW images.
The extra speed probably comes in handy for highest quality video too.
 
cowasaki said:
The new format is faster and allows more RAW images to be recorded which is clearly an advantage. Having 2 CF plus the XQD would be ideal and as the XQD is so small it would be doable.....
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The point is though that none of the other card manufacturers are going to back it, not even Sandisk and they were part of the group of companies that developed it. That suggests to me that there is another similar format on the way that Sandisk et all will be backing.

Stoptime said:
The XQD card is the reason that the D4 can shoot a burst of 100 RAW images.
The extra speed probably comes in handy for highest quality video too.
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Yeah and Betamax is/was a far superior system to VHS......
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Nikon's new D4, as anyone with an interest in such things will know, comes with one CF slot and one for the new XQD card type, developed jointly between Nikon, Sony and Sandisk.

Sandisk have, however, now stated that they will not be producing cards in this format and neither it seems will another of the main players, Lexar. This leaves Sony as the sole card supplier, with a 16GB card slated to cost $130, which will probably translate to near enough the same in pounds in the UK

The question therefore is, have Nikon jumped the gun with the D4 and does it mean they may end up having to rush out a D4s in a few months time to restore the dual CF slot system?

Memories of Betamax.....
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No Doubt someone will make an adapter for XQD to SDXC soon enough for those who are looking for cheaper storage. I assume the dimensions rule out an XQD to Compact Flash adapter.

It is an odd move nevertheless.
 
I really don't think that this will be an issue for those planning to buy a D4. If you have that much to spend on a camera, you're probably not the type to go for cheap storage cards anyway.

I already don't like CF cards and I certainly don't think having two different card types in the same camera is a great idea, but I'm also not in the market for a D4. Still waiting for the D800 announcement to see if I'm going for that one or a D700 next.
 
Is one of those things isn't it?

When new future things apply to the new product, lots of people will have a bash at it.

Wait till it comes out and see weather it is worthy or not. Don't think Nikon will go back to dual CF to behonest, camera is releasing next month so that means they already produce a good amount of cameras already.

Even if they do go back to dual CF it maybe on the next pro camera like D4x? D4s? D800? etc
 
Surely this is all purely speculation, and only time will tell?
 
Quanosaur said:
I really don't think that this will be an issue for those planning to buy a D4. If you have that much to spend on a camera, you're probably not the type to go for cheap storage cards anyway.
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You'd be surprised how many people buy a £3-4k camera and then stick cheap lenses on them, so £120 for a memory card? :shake:

freecom2 said:
Surely this is all purely speculation, and only time will tell?
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It's only speculation if you discount Sandisk issuing a press release stating “At this time, SanDisk has chosen not to productize the XQD format”.

You'd think that with Nikon launching a camera designed to use the new cards that the card companies, and particularly the one that developed the new cards, would be wanting to roll out their new products, to take advantage of the sales that the Nikon launch will generate.

Methinks there's more to this.....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd be surprised how many people buy a £3-4k camera and then stick cheap lenses on them, so £120 for a memory card? :shake: .....
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Tis so true - but did make me chuckle.... So did the betamax in your earlier/op... Brought back memories of the phillips player our school had, with tapes like the size of my lunch box (the tupperware type - OK & not the Linford 1 :razz:)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd be surprised how many people buy a £3-4k camera and then stick cheap lenses on them....
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I am no longer surprised by this- it's like people that buy sport cars then put remoulds on, use cheap oil and can't afford to service them. They can say they have a sport car though and that's what counts...

Running costs, that's where it's at.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd be surprised how many people buy a £3-4k camera and then stick cheap lenses on them...
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It does appear this was always the case. It never ceased to amaze me the number of top range SLR's we used to sell (in the 1980's), such as the Nikon F3 etc, and would then purchase the cheapest third party zoom lenses we stocked, which in our case were a brand called Makinon.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd think that with Nikon launching a camera designed to use the new cards that the card companies, and particularly the one that developed the new cards, would be wanting to roll out their new products, to take advantage of the sales that the Nikon launch will generate.

Methinks there's more to this.....
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Have to agree and the very idea of a mis-matched pairing of cards in this spec camera is odd to me, I can only view it as a compromise until the next stage.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd be surprised how many people buy a £3-4k camera and then stick cheap lenses on them, so £120 for a memory card? :shake:
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Oh, I believe that, plenty of people like that out there. But that sort of thing already shows that they're irrational - irrational enough to complain but still buy the D4 anyway ;)
 
Dr_O said:
I am no longer surprised by this- it's like people that buy sport cars then put remoulds on, use cheap oil and can't afford to service them. They can say they have a sport car though and that's what counts...

Running costs, that's where it's at.
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Or people who buy 60k 4x4s and then drive no more than 50mph on the motorway cause they can't afford their fuel. :D
 
I had not heard about Lexar and Sandisk not producing cards. :eek:

However, it is cards for one camera at the moment, with a potential userbase of how many? :shrug: And of them users, how many need the speed? :shrug:

There needs to be a few more products out there using the format, particularly a few high volume consumer products. That is where the 'at this time' statement from Sandisk comes from I think, not committing until there is a big enough market to make it worth their while.

Saying that, it's not just the number of devices that has to be considered, it is things like card readers. There needs to be a new card reader for this device, which at the numbers they'll make them in at first, could be expensive, and new, fast designs are normally expensive. ;)

I have mismatched CF and SD duel card slots in my D300S, which made me buy some fast SD cards, because the cameras I had before never had SD cards. :shake: I rely on the CF cards and use the SD card slot as an overflow, or write to both cards when fast write speed is not needed, but need backup security, a wedding for example. The D300S went for a SD card slot to make it easier and more attractive for people upgrading who may already have SD cards, but if not, was not was prohibitive to get SD cards because they are the cheapest and ubiquitous of the card formats. This XQD format is the opposite, and is a risk, at least at the moment. :shrug:

The Pro's will pay, or at least their employer will pay if the speed gains is of benefit, which if it's sport or reporting, it will be.
 
Could it have anything to do with Sandisk about to release their 1000x CF card? Only $1500 for 128gig. Or $500 for a 90MB/s 32gig. (suggested MRSP at time of print)

Now with those prices who wants to pay Sony just under $250 for a 32gig XQD at 125MB/s?

Oh wait, I do.
 
Quanosaur said:
Or people who buy 60k 4x4s and then drive no more than 50mph on the motorway cause they can't afford their fuel. :D
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that drives me nuts being stuck behind a top of the line Range Rover doing 40 on a 60 limit A road:bang:
 
You might well see XQD cards in many of Nikon's upcoming models.
 
Stoptime said:
The XQD card is the reason that the D4 can shoot a burst of 100 RAW images.
The extra speed probably comes in handy for highest quality video too.
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that sounds awesome being able to do that (a burst of 100 RAWs) is there any reason why they could not do the same thing with a standard Sd/CF format though ?
 
LCPete said:
that sounds awesome being able to do that (a burst of 100 RAWs) is there any reason why they could not do the same thing with a standard Sd/CF format though ?
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Bandwidth at 12 fps... If each image is 30MBytes, that equates to 360MBytes/sec.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You'd think that with Nikon launching a camera designed to use the new cards that the card companies, and particularly the one that developed the new cards, would be wanting to roll out their new products, to take advantage of the sales that the Nikon launch will generate.

Methinks there's more to this.....
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Can you link to the press release from Sandisk please?
 
Lots of noise originating from a conversation at CES, good way to start a rumour :)

If its true, I can see Nikon taking a big hit on this one. Wonder what the costs would be to re-tool the machines to produce a D4 with two CF slots :shrug:
 
treeman said:
Lots of noise originating from a conversation at CES, good way to start a rumour :)

If its true, I can see Nikon taking a big hit on this one. Wonder what the costs would be to re-tool the machines to produce a D4 with two CF slots :shrug:
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There was also someone asked Sandisk on Twitter about when they 'd be launching cards in the new format, the response struck me as very vague and was basically along the lines that they couldn't comment on such matters, which struck me as a bit odd, given the impending D4 launch.

On the bright side Canon appear to be having battery issues with the MK X :naughty:
 
I'm surprised Canon are trying to fix that now- it's unlike them to ship something that works at launch:naughty:

Still we shouldn't laugh- oh wait, we should:lol:

Could be catching though- the D7000 had a few issues at launch so lets hope the D4 doesn't stumble with reliability issues.
 
Dr_O said:
I'm surprised Canon are trying to fix that now- it's unlike them to ship something that works at launch:naughty:

Still we shouldn't laugh- oh wait, we should:lol:

Could be catching though- the D7000 had a few issues at launch so lets hope the D4 doesn't stumble with reliability issues.
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Doesn't pay to get too cocky...if I recall correctly, early D300's had issues with certain lenses (the 70-200 VR I for sure) until Nikon did a firmware fix.
 
Ok so that's a bit weird, Sandisk pitching in to create a standard and then leaving Sony to sell it as MemoryStick II? I'm guessing Sony needs fast cards for the flash-recording HD and 4k pro video cams so they're probably pretty committed.. but Nikon sure looks like a bleeding edge adopter here.

Things can change quickly though...
 
Didn't like the idea of two different card slots when the rumours first emerged, bit of a strange one.

I'm sure Lexar announced a CF card that could match the speed of the first gen XQD cards not long after the D4 announcement...can't seem to find anything now though :S
 
nickshek said:
Didn't like the idea of two different card slots when the rumours first emerged, bit of a strange one.

I'm sure Lexar announced a CF card that could match the speed of the first gen XQD cards not long after the D4 announcement...can't seem to find anything now though :S
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Something like this you mean:)

Think they also released a 256GB CF card as well at 400x speed which is a first- allegedly, in case I'm wrong:suspect: :lol:
 
If these new cards start getting rave reviews and flying off the shelves Lexar would no doubt want a piece of that. I can't see Nikon putting it in a flagship camera if it wasn't sure it would be worth it and well supported.
 
Seems they have a super fast SD out as well.

Maybe the XQD card shouldn't have got past feasibility... certainly seems to be some recent advancement to existing technology but time will tell if XQD is a pet project out of control.
 
There's no way Sandisk or Lexar would be producing XQD cards yet.

The D4's the only body with them in. Nikon make c. 7000 bodies a month. Selling every single one, and every one of those buyers buying 4 XQD cards (that's being optimistic when a 16G card will hold 800+ lossless RAW images, a 32G near 2 thousand, and not all the 7k a month will go to people needing backup cards) that's still only 336,000 cards in the next year. A tiny market. For the other companies to jump in now would be folly.

That's not especially relevant for a D4 customer though. No pins to bend, faster sustained write speeds in the future, lower power consumption, less bulky, and the comparable CF card (1000x Lexar) is more expensive.

Much ado about nothing. But then, this is DSLRs, so not unexpected!
 
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