Have I bought a dodgy lens?

Dangermouse

Dangermouse

Squeaky Clean
Suspended / Banned
Messages
10,135
Edit My Images
No
I have just bought a used 150-500f5 Sigma DG OS APO HSM lens for my D810 and the AF is not working, yes I have tried turning AF on and off on both the camera and the lens and even tried it on the wifes D610 and it refuses to work, am I missing something or have I bought a non working lens, the shop does have a good reputation.
The AF icon on the top lcd and in the viewfinder just flickers all the time whilst the lens is attached
 
Cannot speak about Nikon but I have read over time that older Sigma lenses do not work, without re-chipping, on newer Canon bodies.

May be best to contact Sigma with lens details and re which bodies you intend to use it on.
 
Still the lens was sold as fully working so should simply work when attached to the body should it not.
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
Still the lens was sold as fully working so should simply work when attached to the body should it not.
Click to expand...

Hmmm! not sure how that phrase could be interpreted, so fully working but on what body model(s)?

You say the shop has a good reputation.....do they sell Nikon and can you get there to test it on their demo models???

Or at least ask them to explain why you are having the issue?
 
The shop is in Wales so visiting is out of the question, if it was sold as fully working then I would imagine that to be the case on all compatible bodies, mine included, I will have to see what they say in the morning and hope they have another in stock as I really do want this lens and more important, need it for a trip in 2 weeks time.
 
MHO you are right.. send thm a Picture taken with the lens and tell them you are srnding the lens back.....dont go in all guns blazing... doesnt matter who is in the right.. a pleasent approach gets more results IMHO
 
I have already sent them a message explaining what the problem is, and asked if I can send it back for them to have a look, I have done some googling and it is 100% compatible with both the D810 and the D610 so its definitely not the camera bodies as all our other lenses work perfectly on both bodies, I will just wait and see what they say, and looking at their stock they do have another that is slightly more expensive so I may have to part with some more money if this one is found to be faulty.
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
I have already sent them a message explaining what the problem is, and asked if I can send it back for them to have a look, I have done some googling and it is 100% compatible with both the D810 and the D610 so its definitely not the camera bodies as all our other lenses work perfectly on both bodies, I will just wait and see what they say, and looking at their stock they do have another that is slightly more expensive so I may have to part with some more money if this one is found to be faulty.
Click to expand...

I surmise all the brand new ones are 100% compatible..............................but yours in secondhand and maybe needs its firmware updating (or re-chipping).

Hopefully the shop will reply positively and resolve it amicably to mutual satisfaction :)
 
Have you checked which focus point is active. I have a D810 and 150-600 and occassionaly run into AF issues if it's at the long end and not on the central point.

Set it to single point AF, move to centre and try again.

Other thing might be to clean the lens contacts
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
I have done some googling and it is 100% compatible with both the D810 and the D610 so its definitely not the camera bodies as all our other lenses work perfectly on both bodies....
Click to expand...
Obviously I don't know what you read, but I think it's fairer to say that this lens *can* be 100% compatible. However there are definitely potential issues of incompatibility related to firmware.

Nikon released firmware upgrades for many of their cameras a while ago, I think to accommodate their new AF-P autofocus technogy, and one side effect of that was it disabled the autofocus in some Sigma lenses. (Nikon won't care about that, of course.) if you have a Sigma 'Global Vision' lens (Art, Sports, Contemporary) you can use a Sigma Dock to check and update the firmware. But with older designs such as the 150-500mm the only way to upgrade the firmware is to send it to Sigma. They won't charge for the upgrade.

If your camera is running the newest firmware and your lens is running the newest firmware, it will be compatible. If not, they might not work properly together. Trouble is, the only way to find out whether the lens is running the newest firmware is to send it to Sigma.
 
Thanks Stewart, I am waiting for the reply from the shop but this is an option I may take
 
had this a couple of times with some of my gfsolder sigma lenses. Specically a 50-500 and an 18-250. They didnt fully work with an 810 or 500 but fine on my 750.

The 50-500 wouldn't autofocus on the d500 but stabilisation worked and it was the reverse with the 18-250

Fortunately i work about 10 minutes from sigma UK hq and they updated the lenses for me while i waited. At a cost of about £40 each.
 
UPDATE

The shop are willing to exchange the lens, BUT I was on a Google mission this morning and found an article about this problem and it says the D810 will not work with lots of lenses if the firmware has been updated to V1.13 which I updated a week ago, so I googled firmware rollback for Nikon and it found the last 1.02v firmware which I downloaded and installed in the D810 and hey presto the lens is fully functional, so if anyone has a compatibility issue with a Sigma and Nikon see if this fix works for you before pulling your hair out, thanks for the help everyone.
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
UPDATE

The shop are willing to exchange the lens, BUT I was on a Google mission this morning and found an article about this problem and it says the D810 will not work with lots of lenses if the firmware has been updated to V1.13 which I updated a week ago, so I googled firmware rollback for Nikon and it found the last 1.02v firmware which I downloaded and installed in the D810 and hey presto the lens is fully functional, so if anyone has a compatibility issue with a Sigma and Nikon see if this fix works for you before pulling your hair out, thanks for the help everyone.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a 'result' :) though I wonder what you might be missing out on in regard to fixes/updates by rolling back the body software???

Hopefully Nikon will (though unlikely they would feel obligated) make the next update more Sigma friendly!
 
Box Brownie said:
Hopefully Nikon will (though unlikely they would feel obligated) make the next update more Sigma friendly!
Click to expand...

increasingly unlikely, imsure i read an detailed article ages ago sigma not wanting to pay nikon for compat testing and this directly led to the dock becoming a reality
 
StewartR said:
Obviously I don't know what you read, but I think it's fairer to say that this lens *can* be 100% compatible. However there are definitely potential issues of incompatibility related to firmware.

Nikon released firmware upgrades for many of their cameras a while ago, I think to accommodate their new AF-P autofocus technogy, and one side effect of that was it disabled the autofocus in some Sigma lenses. (Nikon won't care about that, of course.) if you have a Sigma 'Global Vision' lens (Art, Sports, Contemporary) you can use a Sigma Dock to check and update the firmware. But with older designs such as the 150-500mm the only way to upgrade the firmware is to send it to Sigma. They won't charge for the upgrade.

If your camera is running the newest firmware and your lens is running the newest firmware, it will be compatible. If not, they might not work properly together. Trouble is, the only way to find out whether the lens is running the newest firmware is to send it to Sigma.
Click to expand...

I think this is disgraceful behaviour from Nikon, a) for losing all sight of customer focus (no pun intended), b) being so small minded and petty, and c) not disclosing these very important facts clearly upfront.

They've done it before, when a firmware upgrade suddenly stopped all third-party batteries working - with potentially disastrous consequences when it happens in the middle of an important job (and you have no idea why). Nikon should be ashamed.
 
The only difference I have noticed is the CF cards I have will now not work in the camera, the SD card is fine this is on V1.12 firmware, I cant find the V1.01 firmware to give that a try so will either send the lens in for a firmware update or just not bother with the CF card slot as it was not used really anyway, only backup
 
I don't have any experience of Nikon cameras but Canon say (in most of the DSLR instruction manuals I've read) something along the lines of that using a non-Canon product with the camera may invalidate any warranty. So it seems that you fit a 3rd party lens at your own risk!

It seems that it's not just lenses, I have a 3rd party 'Canon dedicated' flash gun that works with the last of the Canon film SLRs, but won't even fire in full manual setting on a later Canon DSLR, but a 4 year old Canon Speedlite 430 EX II will allegedly work with the last of the Canon film SLRs even in TTL mode (if the camera has that flash feature).

To be honest, can you blame a manufacturer for that? I doubt anyone here would be willingly showering their competitors with long-lived compatibility if they were in the same situation?

As for the CF card no longer working, bearing in mind I know nothing about Nikon cameras, have you tried formatting a CF card in the camera and see if that gets it to work? Don't blame me if you decide to try this and it breaks everything though! The longer we live, the more complicated life seems to become in an effort to make it more simple! :confused:
 
Last edited:
Tried it in the camera and it just says card error on all my CFs which were working perfect before rolling the firmware back
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
Tried it in the camera and it just says card error on all my CFs which were working perfect before rolling the firmware back
Click to expand...
The joys of modern technology! :( As William Shakespeare once wrote: "In striving to better, oft we mar what's well".
 
I have to say at the out set I don't like using 3rd party lenses with my Nikon cameras even though I have the tamron 90mm macro lens.The reason being that the lens coatings may not be ideal for the Nikon sensor and throw the colours out. I may be wrong its just how i think. To me far better to manufacture match camera and lens.

Ok now for your problem Pete with the CF card. options, first format it in a card reader then in camera. This will ensure you are formatting an independant formatted card which might clear any card corruption? Second is to try another CF card. Third remove all cards format the camera. .
At least then everything should be back to manufactures spec. I actually had a couple of minor problems with my D810 and reset it a couple of times now it is ok, sorry can't remember exactly what they were now, but something to do with the camera settings wern't showing correctly

Ok now for the latest upgrade, I have had no problems with it but the lenses are nikon as I have said.

here is the info on latest firmware updatec to version C 1.13 and L to 2.017




  • • Added the following supports for AF-P lenses:
    • - If the standby timer expires after focusing, the focus position will no longer change when the timer is reactivated.
    • - When focus is adjusted by rotating the lens focus ring, the focus indicator in the viewfinder (and in live view, the focus point in the monitor) now flash to indicate when infinity or the minimum focus distance is reached.
  • • Fixed the following issues:
    • - Microphone sensitivity would sometimes not be correctly adjusted when movies were recorded with Auto sensitivity selected for Microphone sensitivity.
    • - The camera would sometimes stop responding during multiple exposure shooting.


So according to that it should not affect your sigma lens.
Doing the upgrade the bit I missed the "bin" part have highlighted and wondered why i could not complete the firmware update. Should have read it properly. also note para 4





Product Description
Updating the Camera Firmware
  1. Create a folder on the computer hard disk and name it as desired.
  2. Download F-D810-V113W.exe to the folder created in Step 1.
  3. Run F-D810-V113W.exe to extract the following file to a folder named “D810Update”:
    • D810_0113.bin (the camera firmware)
  4. Using a card slot or card reader, copy “D810_0113.bin” to a memory card that has been formatted in the camera.
  5. Insert the memory card into the camera slot currently selected as the primary slot and turn the camera on.
  6. Select Firmware version in the SETUP MENU and follow the on-screen instructions to complete the firmware update.
  7. Once the update is complete, turn the camera off and remove the memory card.
  8. Confirm that the firmware has been updated to the new version.

Note: For more detailed instructions or information on the equipment needed to complete the update, download the following pdf file:
DSLR_Firmup_Win_En.pdf (PDF) (0.21 MB)

Note: Updates can be performed for you by a Nikon-authorized service representative.
 
Last edited:
compatability chart for sigma lens for nikon D810

you lens is not on he list so must be quite an early version



Note *7 on bottom of page

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/cas/product/popups/lenses-correspondencelist/


In 2010, Sigma recalled some lenses due to a "potential autofocus defect". Sigma offered customers a modification service, free of charge. Lenses requiring the modification were those with serial numbers between 10674301 and 10972000. Sigma lenses APO 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM and APO 120-400mm F4.5-5.6 DG OS HSM were also affected


https://www.ephotozine.com/article/...3-dg-os-hsm-interchangeable-lens-review-13621


Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
I think this is disgraceful behaviour from Nikon, a) for losing all sight of customer focus (no pun intended), b) being so small minded and petty, and c) not disclosing these very important facts clearly upfront.

They've done it before, when a firmware upgrade suddenly stopped all third-party batteries working - with potentially disastrous consequences when it happens in the middle of an important job (and you have no idea why). Nikon should be ashamed.
Click to expand...
It's not often I disagree with you, Richard, but I think you're wrong here.

Do you think Nikon should be responsible for testing compatibility with third party accessories? How many different manufacturers of third party lenses, grips, batteries, flashes etc should they support?
 
I managed to find the firmware I was looking for V1.111 and installed, the camera now has a functional CF reader, SD reader and more importantly, third party lenses work on the camera, I don't think Nikon should stop people using lenses and other accessories from other manufacturers but maybe put an option whether we want to use them in the menu to save tons of hassle, not everyone can afford an armoury of Nikon lenses but can afford decent quality third party lenses, rolling back firware to enable other lenses than Nikon isn't hard, the hard bit is finding the firmware..... if anyone is looking for V1.111 to enable third party accessories let me know I have it saved.
 
StewartR said:
It's not often I disagree with you, Richard, but I think you're wrong here.

Do you think Nikon should be responsible for testing compatibility with third party accessories? How many different manufacturers of third party lenses, grips, batteries, flashes etc should they support?
Click to expand...

That's not what I mean Stewart - and I agree with you :) It's the deliberate disabling of third party equipment. Gear that Nikon's valuable customers have bought (because Nikon doesn't produce anything equivalent) that was working fine yesterday, but now will not. Perhaps even worse is the sneaky way they go about it, without any warning.
 
I agree Richard, when Nikon release firmware to address issues and bugs within a camera, the last thing anyone wants to do is install it only find out once installed, Nikon has sneaked other software into the firmware disabling certain lenses made by other manufacturers as with the latest V1.13 firmware
 
HoppyUK said:
That's not what I mean Stewart - and I agree with you :) It's the deliberate disabling of third party equipment. Gear that Nikon's valuable customers have bought (because Nikon doesn't produce anything equivalent) that was working fine yesterday, but now will not. Perhaps even worse is the sneaky way they go about it, without any warning.
Click to expand...
Dangermouse1964 said:
I agree Richard, when Nikon release firmware to address issues and bugs within a camera, the last thing anyone wants to do is install it only find out once installed, Nikon has sneaked other software into the firmware disabling certain lenses made by other manufacturers as with the latest V1.13 firmware
Click to expand...
Deliberate disabling of third party equipment? Do we have any evidence that that is the case?
 
StewartR said:
Deliberate disabling of third party equipment? Do we have any evidence that that is the case?
Click to expand...

In your previous post, do you think it's accidental that a firmware upgrade to accommodate new Nikon technology also disabled some third-party lenses that worked just fine before? Hmmm... Or that it suddenly stopped third-party batteries working? 100% guilty on that one. Or Canon introducing new camera models that won't work with third-party flash for no reason?

I can understand why they might want to do these things, even if I believe it's misguided, but to do it without clear notice and without an easy way of reverting back to the previous firmware - that's unacceptable.

ps An old friend of mine is MD of a leading third-party manufacturer. They're kept busy keeping up with constant firmware upgrades to work around these changes. As he said, "they like to play games with us." I guess that's part and parcel of competitive business, but playing games with customers is out of order.
 
Last edited:
It may or may not be deliberate. Nikon might well have made changes to the firmware for unrelated reasons, which happened to break compatibility with the Sigma. It's probably worth asking Sigma if they have a lens firmware fix for this issue and getting it done if it's free. You might want to upgrade the D810 firmware in the future for some other reason.
 
lets think of it this way. If you bought a car you wouldn't expect another car makers part to fit. . Same with cameras why should Nikon make a camera for other companies to bolt onto? yes of course there are many accessories that do but they are made to fit, it is really up to Sigma to get their lenses up to accept the latest camera upgrades ,not the other way round
of course it would be unreasonable to expect an old out of date lens to be readily adaptable to a new camera without some sort of modification
 
Last edited:
realspeed said:
lets think of it this way. If you bought a car you wouldn't expect another car makers part to fit. . Same with cameras why should Nikon make a camera for other companies to bolt onto? yes of course there are many accessories that do but they are made toIit is really up to Sigma to get their lenses up to accept the latest camera upgrades ,not the other way round
Click to expand...

Not the same thing at all. This is like taking your car for a service and it comes back with your nice new alloy wheels missing - because the manufacturer decided to add a component to the wheel hubs so that aftermarket wheels would no longer fit.

The underhand thing about this is that they're doing it retrospectively, to equipment that you've already bought and used without issue, and without telling you.
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
In your previous post, do you think it's accidental that a firmware upgrade to accommodate new Nikon technology also disabled some third-party lenses that worked just fine before? Hmmm... Or that it suddenly stopped third-party batteries working? 100% guilty on that one. Or Canon introducing new camera models that won't work with third-party flash for no reason?
Click to expand...
I genuinely don't know. Software is difficult, and embedded software working at the limits of hardware performance capability is incredibly difficult. The Sigma problems were related to image stabilisation and autofocus, which are two technologies that depend on very precise timing and are very difficult to reverse engineer. I don't have any problem with the notion that these were accidental side effects. The alternative is to argue that Nikon are not only malevolent and stupid, but also incompetent - because their cunning plan for disabling Sigma lenses was so easily circumvented.
 
Last edited:
StewartR said:
I genuinely don't know. Software is difficult, and embedded software working at the limits of hardware performance capability is incredibly difficult. The Sigma problems were related to image stabilisation and autofocus, which are two technologies that depend on very precise timing and are very difficult to reverse engineer. I don't have any problem with the notion that these were accidental side effects. The alternative is to argue that Nikon are not only malevolent and stupid, but also incompetent - because their cunning plan for disabling Sigma lenses was so easily circumvented.
Click to expand...

Their cunning plan is to discourage customers from buying third-party accessories. So I would say, probably mission accomplished. But it's a dirty trick to play at the customers expense and there's always the danger that it might back-fire and the mud would stick to Nikon.
 
The main thing now is, my lens now works on my camera and I have had an email off Sigma UK saying they can update the lens firmware if I want to use the latest Nikon firmware for £40 plus postage, but whats to stop another firmware rollout disabling the lens again, I think I will stick to the firmware that I have got until I can afford the Nikon lenses that do work without any faffing about, if this is intentional then a lot of Nikon users will probably switch to another camera manufacturer if they cant use a cheaper alternative lens system, if it is genuinely a mistake then Nikon should supply updates that allow us to use third party lenses, I know the research and development of firmware can be a bottomless money pit but other manufacturers don't seem to be having this problem......as far as I know anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nod
Some firmware updates are more useful than others. I understand that some "issues" are fixed before they affect many people but unless the blurb that tells us what (known) issues an update fixes or new features it introduces will make my camera(s) easier to use or make them more responsive, I don't always install them.
While I wouldn't be too happy IF the manufacturers were deliberately crippling 3rd party lenses, I can also see that it's not really their problem if updating the firmware to make their own lenses work better means that competitors' lenses are affected - why should they spend time, effort and money on supporting something that will cost them money?
 
Doesn't just affect Nikon, older Sigmas often don't work with latest Canons and some of the lens aren't chipped so can't be made to work, although in some cases Sigma offered a discount to purchase a new model. I am not aware of any upgrade firmware of older cameras crippling a lens that was working though.
 
Snip:
Nod said:
I can also see that it's not really their problem if updating the firmware to make their own lenses work better means that competitors' lenses are affected - why should they spend time, effort and money on supporting something that will cost them money?
Click to expand...

Exactly the point I was making in post #19, why should a manufacturer care if a 3rd party product doesn't work properly on their camera? I think their reply would be something along the lines of "we told you so in the instruction manual, and if it's damaged your camera you'll have to pay for any repairs yourself!". That's one of the reasons I stick to Canon products for my Canon cameras, unless it's something that won't affect the camera mechanics or electronics at all, like a tripod bracket.
 
When the Pentax K-1 came out a couple of years ago it was noticed that quite a few Sigma lenses wouldn't work correctly and also they caused a scoring mark to the actual body when being mounted to the camera. This didn't happen with Pentax lenses but when Sigma reverse engineered theirs on the newer glass they didn't allow the correct amount of clearance between the mount and body. This hadn't been an issue on previous models but the K-1 had a slightly different shape to it.

So who's to blame? Sigma for not paying a licence fee and reverse engineering the mount or Pentax for making a body that didn't have the problem with it's own lenses?

As it was, for the price of return postage Sigma changed the mounts on 3 of my lenses, upgraded the firmware and also paid for Pentax to fit a new body piece where the mount had caused the marks. They did that free for any Pentax user that was affected .... so I guess they admitted responsibilty.

Personally I think Sigma went above and beyond ... and I'm glad they did. :)
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
I think this is disgraceful behaviour from Nikon, a) for losing all sight of customer focus (no pun intended), b) being so small minded and petty, and c) not disclosing these very important facts clearly upfront.

They've done it before, when a firmware upgrade suddenly stopped all third-party batteries working - with potentially disastrous consequences when it happens in the middle of an important job (and you have no idea why). Nikon should be ashamed.
Click to expand...
I had a similar problem with a Sigma 180 mm macro asked Sigma if they could re-chip and they said no it wasn't possible ?
So traded it in hence I very rarely purchase third party glass for my various systems
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top