Hate towards part-time photographers?

jamesev said:
That then suggests there's not really a valid market for images on social media if those people who post are happy to post poor photos. feels like social media is just about content, content, content quantity rather than quality.


So if an amateur can take better photos than the pro, what does the pro have thats worth their fee. Usually any professional offers skills, experience and knowledge that a non-professional cannot offer. Surely deciding to turn pro means that you feel you have something to offer the market that you can't offer as an amateur beyond the label of calling yourself "Pro"
Click to expand...

I would only go to events where I am the only person allowed to take pics. so i sold a lot to social media

Again being pro has never meant being a better photogrpaher... but it does mean being reliable for customers and as above it can mean being the only photogrpaher there
 
In all walks of life there is competition.
However photographhy is one of those professions that is not regulated.
Over the years a majority of working photographers have resisted tooth and nail against any form of regulation or enforced qualification necessary to work as a professional photographer..
As a result there is neither a quality standard nor code of conduct nor route of entry into the profession.

When any one can call themselves and work as a professional photographer. What right has anyone to object to anyone else working part or full time, from doing so.
A photographer has no more rights than a freelance gardener or window cleaner against absolutely any one else competing with them.

Success in photography largely depends on business skill and people skills, work ethic and only incidentally on photographic skill level.
An almost unbelievable number off exceptionally skilled and talented photographers fail miserably in running a successful business..
Competition is never a valid excuse. Skill is never enough.
 
Last edited:
KIPAX said:
I would only go to events where I am the only person allowed to take pics. so i sold a lot to social media
Click to expand...
The only place that's likely is an Amish wedding and I'm not sure they'd want a photographer present at an event, anyway.

The ubiquitous cellphone camera has changed the image capturing environment forever.
Terrywoodenpic said:
A photographer ha no more rights than a freelance gardener or window cleaner against absolutely any one else competing with them.
Click to expand...
Quite right.
Terrywoodenpic said:
Success in photography largely depends on business skill and people skills, work ethic and only incidentally on photographic skill level.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Speaking from experience, the best way to succeed as a freelance photographer is to get into industrial sales. Just the few weeks I was paid to attend sales training courses, made me a far more effective photographer, commercially, than I would ever have been otherwise.
 
I shot a few games, one I was met be a friendly face I knew from working with on events. I knew nothing where to go etc they helped with that but when it came to the photography side I nothing coming from them at all was the enemy.

Another game I wasn't shooting he was shooting at the club I work for part time, another friendly face I knew from shooting events and he has given me loads of great advice over the years and I respect everything he is and does. The biggest piece went along the lines go with what ever ISO you need to get the shutter speed you need, you cant sell a blurred photo but a noisy photo can be worked with and will sell. I wonder if he remembers that conversation, he has posted in this thread already.
 
Last edited:
Little John said:
I shot a few games, one I was met be a friendly face I knew from working with on events. I knew nothing where to go etc they helped with that but when it came to the photography side I nothing coming from them at all was the enemy.

Another game I wasn't shooting he was shooting at the club I work for part time, another friendly face I knew from shooting events and he has given me loads of great advice over the years and I respect everything he is and does. The biggest piece went along the lines go with what ever ISO you need to get the shutter speed you need, you cant sell a blurred photo but a noisy photo can be worked with and will sell. I wonder if he remembers that conversation, he has posted in this thread already.
Click to expand...


heyup mate :)
 
Just as an aside many years ago after posting a very mediocre photo of a cricket match at Accrington on here Kippax responded with genuine good advice and an offer to let me accompany him on a job at Accrington Stanley to show me how he approached sports photography. Sadly never took him up on the offer (a crippling shyness plagued me) but many years later l still remember his kindness towards me.
 
mik0mc said:
Just as an aside many years ago after posting a very mediocre photo of a cricket match at Accrington on here Kippax responded with genuine good advice and an offer to let me accompany him on a job at Accrington Stanley to show me how he approached sports photography. Sadly never took him up on the offer (a crippling shyness plagued me) but many years later l still remember his kindness towards me.
Click to expand...
Accrington Stanley......okay I won't :ROFLMAO:
 
I am a year or two further down the moving into photography as a job than the OP. I signed up with an Agency and generally the other photographers pitch side were pretty nice to me. @KIPAX and @DemiLion, in very different ways have really helped me on these pages, and there have been a few other photographers who have really helped with words of advice and encouragement. I don't get many shifts from the Agency but that is fine as I have built work for myself and that is much better paid and far less pressure anyways. I did work on marathons and I now get some work from the organisers rather than the bulk photo agencies. That is better paid and far more rewarding I shoot Dog Agility to fill the summer and have a couple of clients that give me regular work which all goes together to create a good part time income. I am now at the point I am earning enough to semi-retire next year balancing pension, very part time pay from my day job and photography income. A few years down the line I can hopefully stop teh desk job and move to full time photography

Good luck to the OP. I hope you can make the transition and it sounds like you have a similar plan to me. Photography is a great job. I wish I started when I was younger but I'll enjoy it while I still have the health and energy to do so. One thing I have made sure I do is continue to shoot sports and events for myself without payment. For me it needs to be fun as I am coming up 40 years in a job that has never really been fun
 
Last edited:
wookie6262 said:
I am a year or two further down the moving into photography as a job than the OP. I signed up with an Agency and generally the other photographers pitch side were pretty nice to me. @KIPAX and @DemiLion, in very different ways have really helped me on these pages, and there have been a few other photographers who have really helped with words of advice and encouragement. I don't get many shifts from the Agency but that is fine as I have built work for myself and that is much better paid and far less pressure anyways. I did work on marathons and I now get some work from the organisers rather than the bulk photo agencies. That is better paid and far more rewarding I shoot Dog Agility to fill the summer and have a couple of clients that give me regular work which all goes together to create a good part time income. I am now at the point I am earning enough to semi-retire next year balancing pension, very part time pay from my day job and photography income. A few years down the line I can hopefully stop teh desk job and move to full time photography

Good luck to the OP. I hope you can make the transition and it sounds like you have a similar plan to me. Photography is a great job. I wish I started when I was younger but I'll enjoy it while I still have the health and energy to do so. One thing I have made sure I do is continue to shoot sports and events for myself without payment. For me it needs to be fun as I am coming up 40 years in a job that has never really been fun
Click to expand...
I'm happy side gigging at the moment, I earn far too much money in my day job, numbers that photography could never deliver.
So my plan is to just keep what I'm doing, I enjoy doing it on weekends, and the odd day of the week, and when the time is right to retire I'll just keep doing that. :)
 
I do a lot of work for the mass event companies, I do marathons, half marathons, 10Ks etc, I also do Iron Man, Tough Mudder, Hyrox, Cycling and we've now just picked up the Mountain Hike and an Ultra series.
I like shooting for these guys as it's as simple as turn up, shoot and go home. No editing or any other work needed. Suits me at the moment.
As I say in 10 years maybe I will either retire or semi-retire and use photography as a way to keep busy / active and earn some supplemental income. :)
 
Hanley said:
I do a lot of work for the mass event companies, I do marathons, half marathons, 10Ks etc, I also do Iron Man, Tough Mudder, Hyrox, Cycling and we've now just picked up the Mountain Hike and an Ultra series.
I like shooting for these guys as it's as simple as turn up, shoot and go home. No editing or any other work needed. Suits me at the moment.
As I say in 10 years maybe I will either retire or semi-retire and use photography as a way to keep busy / active and earn some supplemental income. :)
Click to expand...
Sportograf?
 
andrewc said:
I've thought about signing up with them, but I've probably got enough on my plate with what I do with Epic and a few other people.
Click to expand...
A lot of people seem to be complaining that they sign up and never hear from there or get booked on jobs. Even a few friends of mine have said the same.

They seem to have the luxury of being picky in terms of equipment, lighting for certain events is awful, particularly Hyrox (the exception being this weekend in Cardiff as it was in the Principality Stadium under floodlights) and so they won't take people with DSLRs, only newer mirrorless bodies.

They're a good bunch though and we have a laugh travelling and staying over at events. :)
 
Hanley said:
A lot of people seem to be complaining that they sign up and never hear from there or get booked on jobs. Even a few friends of mine have said the same.

They seem to have the luxury of being picky in terms of equipment, lighting for certain events is awful, particularly Hyrox (the exception being this weekend in Cardiff as it was in the Principality Stadium under floodlights) and so they won't take people with DSLRs, only newer mirrorless bodies.

They're a good bunch though and we have a laugh travelling and staying over at events. :)
Click to expand...
I signed up with Sportograf but I'm hopeless at filling out teh Calendar for availability. I've done a few jobs with them and quite like working for them but it is much better having your own clients. I'm with you in terms of teh day job. Much as I hate mine I am happy that it will provide me with a decent income into my 60s and I will just work 16 hours a week until I get totally fed up with it. Sitting on my day off today another £3K of photo work came in so that is enough to upgrade a camera. At some point I will put that money into the household but for now it is mine to do as I choose
 
Sportograf are a great company to work for.
I've worked for a few of the big shooters and I'm moving away from them now and just trying to do events with Sportograf, they've got a great team of Team Leaders who organise the events, and they do a really good mixture of different events so I'm happy working with them.
 
I've just had a classic example of why working photographers can get p1ssed off with 'amateurs' , at this year's county championships.

I work with a national sports body providing PR, sponsorship and retail images of domstic competitions.
They pay us for coverage and all sales are split.
After all the stadium costs, security costs, players' meals cost etc etc.

One 'amateur' photographer, hired to cover the match for a county sports body has absolutely shagged us.

Team photos (inc the winners celebration) plastered all over Facebook. Sub-level teams (ie local) tagged on every post supplying free images.

His accreditation allows for press images only.

Our sales have been absolutely screwed.

That is why amateurs and part timers get grief. Because of tw@s like this that igmore the rules.
 
Last edited:
DemiLion said:
I've just had a classic example of why working photographers can get p1ssed off with 'amateurs' , at this year's county championships.

I work with a national sports body providing PR, sponsorship and retail images of domstic competitions.
They pay us for coverage and all sales are split.
After all the stadium costs, security costs, players' meals cost etc etc.

One 'amateur' photographer, hired to cover the match for a county sports body has absolutely shagged us.

Team photos (inc the winners celebration) plastered all over Facebook. Sub-level teams (ie local) tagged on every post supplying free images.

His accreditation allows for press images only.

Our sales have been absolutely screwed.

That is why amateurs and part timers get grief. Because of tw@s like this that igmore the rules.
Click to expand...
One of the questions is who is enforcing the rules? if they were hired by a county sports body then did the county sports body endorse the accreditation application and therefore are as culpable for the rule breach.

Whilst is doesn't fix the issue in this case those setting the rule need to more forcefully endorse them. If a pro had breached the rules there would have been repercussions, so this 'am' needs to feel the same repercussions if they want to have a foot in the sports photo game.
 
I enjoy being an amatuer photography, local grass roots sport is a rich environment to make a photographic contribution to lots of sports
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top