Hate towards part-time photographers?

Hanley

Hanley

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Has anyone witnessed this?

I know there are lots of photographers, myself included, who don't count photography as their main source of income.
For over 7 years I've been photographing sports events and a high percentage of the guys I've worked with do it as a side gig, for me it is running events, Tough Mudder, Iron Man, Hyrox, cycling to name but a few.

As I started to transition into football I was warned that some of the photographers who do this full time carry a lot of hate to what they call 'weekend warriors'.

I've had a couple of conversations with photographers at grounds and they've raised an eyebrow or reacted in some other negative way when I tell them this isn't my main job. I'm always polite and pleasant with people and thankfully I haven't had anyone say anything bad to my face, but I've had bad experiences relayed to me from other 'weekend warriors'.

Photography is my passion, I love it, I love nothing more than having a camera in my hand and I will literally try my hand at photographing anything.

Nothing would make me happier than doing this full-time, but I work in IT in the Banking industry, and have done for over 28 years, my job is boring and I'd love nothing more than to ditch it and move to photography, but I earn 6 figures and have a mortgage and other bills to pay and I know I won't earn anywhere near this doing sports photography full-time.

I'm 52 now and my plan is to try gain as much experience in sports photography as I can, survive in my industry long enough to retire at around 62, and then maybe carry on doing photography during retirement to earn some extra income and keep active.

I'd be interested to hear the experiences of other 'weekend warriors' and even full-time pros as to their experiences or views of this.

In my industry I have a similar experience that I can relate with, I'm a full-time employee, over my 28 years I've seen IT contractors come in for projects, these guys can earn upwards of £800 - £1000 per day, and they end up doing the same job as you. Some of the full timers moan but my response has always been 'there's nothing stopping you doing it'.
 
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Hanley said:
In my industry I have a similar experience that I can relate with, I'm a full-time employee, over my 28 years I've seen IT contractors come in for projects, these guys can earn upwards of £800 - £1000 per day, and they end up doing the same job as you. Some of the full timers moan but my response has always been 'there's nothing stopping you doing it'.
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Don't forget that out of this they have to pay their own national insurance, holiday pay and pensions. I'm not sure about the sick pay rules these days.
 
Peter123 said:
Don't forget that out of this they have to pay their own national insurance, holiday pay and pensions. I'm not sure about the sick pay rules these days.
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I did it myself for a few years so I understand, trust me, they are compensated enough for it, and they rarely take holidays :ROFLMAO:
Even factoring in IR35 they still earn well, although it was much more profitable before.
 
We have heard on TP a number of times about the same issue with weekend warrior Wedding Togs, undercutting the full time properly professional ones. It's probably the same in many fields and genres. I get the impression with sports though that the accreditation hurdles make it less of an issue maybe in that genre, unlike weddings?
In IT, the problem has been profound for many years due to permies resenting contractors, all of us resenting the influx of teams of Wipro/Tata/etc "consultants", some of whom are great and well skilled, but many of whom have only paper skills and are often useless but cheap. I guess it's just the way of the world when many clients want cheap rather than best, because contractors and consultants are often cheaper to use than permanent staff with the longer term commitment needed and the infrastructure of HR, Payroll, H&S, Wellbeing, etc.
 
Hanley said:
I'd be interested to hear the experiences of other 'weekend warriors' and even full-time pros as to their experiences or views of this.
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Neither as a photographer, nor as an IT contractor, have I come across anything like you describe, so my advice is: don't bother what others do, say or think; just get on with the job in hand and take whatever enjoyment you can from it.
 
lindsay said:
We have heard on TP a number of times about the same issue with weekend warrior Wedding Togs, undercutting the full time properly professional ones. It's probably the same in many fields and genres. I get the impression with sports though that the accreditation hurdles make it less of an issue maybe in that genre, unlike weddings?
In IT, the problem has been profound for many years due to permies resenting contractors, all of us resenting the influx of teams of Wipro/Tata/etc "consultants", some of whom are great and well skilled, but many of whom have only paper skills and are often useless but cheap. I guess it's just the way of the world when many clients want cheap rather than best, because contractors and consultants are often cheaper to use than permanent staff with the longer term commitment needed and the infrastructure of HR, Payroll, H&S, Wellbeing, etc.
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Yep, I remember in the late 90s when I was at the early stages of my IT career, MCSEs coming in who couldn't do very basic tasks, clearly good at reading a book and taking an exam but throw them into a situation where systems are down and you have to think on your feet, and fast, they panic. The older guys used to call them 'paper MCSE' :ROFLMAO: There were also very good ones, the paper ones were the minority thankfully
 
Something that has changed is the democratising of photography through tech advances. Auto focus and metering (and sensor improvements) mean that less technically skilled people can get excellent results.

Also, the weekend warriors probably fund their gear from their day job. The wizened professionals have to do it from their photography income.
 
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I used to run courses training people to be Wedding WWs - several of whom went full-time - and yes they are generally hated lol

Its a very different market so there's no real 'clash' as such normally, though many full-timers don't seem to realise that

I've no idea in the sports world
 
Hanley said:
Has anyone witnessed this?

I know there are lots of photographers, myself included, who don't count photography as their main source of income.
For over 7 years I've been photographing sports events and a high percentage of the guys I've worked with do it as a side gig, for me it is running events, Tough Mudder, Iron Man, Hyrox, cycling to name but a few.

As I started to transition into football I was warned that some of the photographers who do this full time carry a lot of hate to what they call 'weekend warriors'.

I've had a couple of conversations with photographers at grounds and they've raised an eyebrow or reacted in some other negative way when I tell them this isn't my main job. I'm always polite and pleasant with people and thankfully I haven't had anyone say anything bad to my face, but I've had bad experiences relayed to me from other 'weekend warriors'.

Photography is my passion, I love it, I love nothing more than having a camera in my hand and I will literally try my hand at photographing anything.

Nothing would make me happier than doing this full-time, but I work in IT in the Banking industry, and have done for over 28 years, my job is boring and I'd love nothing more than to ditch it and move to photography, but I earn 6 figures and have a mortgage and other bills to pay and I know I won't earn anywhere near this doing sports photography full-time.

I'm 52 now and my plan is to try gain as much experience in sports photography as I can, survive in my industry long enough to retire at around 62, and then maybe carry on doing photography during retirement to earn some extra income and keep active.

I'd be interested to hear the experiences of other 'weekend warriors' and even full-time pros as to their experiences or views of this.

In my industry I have a similar experience that I can relate with, I'm a full-time employee, over my 28 years I've seen IT contractors come in for projects, these guys can earn upwards of £800 - £1000 per day, and they end up doing the same job as you. Some of the full timers moan but my response has always been 'there's nothing stopping you doing it'.
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You are in exactly the same position a I was at around that age but in a different field of work . I too worked for a large company a got no thanks for the work I did.
If you want to take up photography full time then make the leap and do it ,quit your exisiting job like I did. Taking on such a commitment ain't easy and a lot to consider. I can only say from personal experience it is scary, quitting a "safe"job and going it alone. there is a lot to consider first. There is the legal side ie third party insurance -travel costs- advertising- giving up holiday/weekends- health - equipment etc etc..

Also remember you more that will not make a living wage for the first few years, it took my wife and I seven years to get established our own name. also you have to give 110 percent of effort or you won't succeed, so have some savings to fall back on.

Ws it worth it??? DEFINATELY YES. First was no more stress I was so stressed out with my old job I was being physicaly sick after work on the way home. 6 months later no stress and a lot happer, you only have the stress you put on yourself not someone higher up at the work place..
Second free to choose when and how long the work day was. Third free to actually enjoy what you want to do. Fourth putting hard earned money into our pockets not some obnoxious bosses one. Hours are longer doing paperwork so helpful is married/partner can do some of it for you

After 25 years of being self employed and financially and health wise far better off enabling a comfortable retirement.
 
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Hanley said:
...but throw them into a situation where systems are down and you have to think on your feet, and fast, they panic.
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Yeesss.

At the end of the 1980s, I was put on a job to install a new currency trading system at a bank that shall remain nameless. Day one, 09:30, my new team leader says to me: "You do C, don't you?"

"Yes", replies I, "but I'm here to install the new trading system".

"Well, if I get you a login, could you just look at a problem we're having with triple trades on the old system?"

. . .

So, six months later, I'm leaving, never having touched the new system. worse still, the old system now does all the trades that the new system was bought to handle. My name is mud with the suppliers of the new system, because the bank is now asking what else can it do (unfortunately, not a lot) and I get four more contracts with that bank. As the saying goes: "win some, lose some".

:tumbleweed:
 
Hanley said:
I'd be interested to hear the experiences of other 'weekend warriors' and even full-time pros as to their experiences or views of this.

In my industry I have a similar experience that I can relate with, I'm a full-time employee, over my 28 years I've seen IT contractors come in for projects, these guys can earn upwards of £800 - £1000 per day, and they end up doing the same job as you. Some of the full timers moan but my response has always been 'there's nothing stopping you doing it'.
Click to expand...

Contractors vary - some very mediocre people out there who seem to move around and get plenty of work but not actually bring much value.

Working for smaller specialist IT company we have had quite a bit of hostility on occasion from incumbents on projects when we have been asked to look at problems or give advice. But also some good longer term relationships with some (I guess at that stage we become incumbents ....).

My observation of professional photographers at events is that they don't seem to care much about other photographers. They have a job to do and if you're not in their way or distracting them then you are not a problem. The pros I have engaged with on chit-chat have never appeared to care much about specific kit - and in general don't care or comment about mine. (Oddly the one camera I have carried that got any significant interest was a little Panasonic GM1), I have witnessed some bad tempers on a couple of occasions - which has been down to people causing issues crossing fence lines / trespassing on land where the regulars are concerned that they will get some sort of backlash from organisers.
 
Hanley said:
As I started to transition into football I was warned that some of the photographers who do this full time carry a lot of hate to what they call 'weekend warriors'.
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Yep as I was quite prolific out most days of the week I came accross them all.. I was part time at first.. shunned because I didn't have the right equipment let alone being one of the boys... I eventually did go full time in sports for 18 years and vowed never to be that photogrpaher.. in fact I went full opposite and tried to talk to others live at games or online.. I stopped going in media rooms before the games as I couldnt bare to listen to them badmouthing other photogrpahers ... they where all old school who didnt adapt to changing times.. simple as that .. still some of them about but not as many... there loss. best to ignore them :)
 
A different take , I do some woodturning and go to the shows , You see up to 10 professional turners displaying work for sale.
Then you see 2 or 3 shed warriors selling item at 1/3 the price , Some pens are being sold at less than the cost of the pen kit.
I asked once how can you do them so cheap , The answer was " I just need to clear out stuff , The wife said so "
The shed warriors are not doing the Pros any favours.
 
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KIPAX said:
Yep as I was quite prolific out most days of the week I came accross them all.. I was part time at first.. shunned because I didn't have the right equipment let alone being one of the boys... I eventually did go full time in sports for 18 years and vowed never to be that photogrpaher.. in fact I went full opposite and tried to talk to others live at games or online.. I stopped going in media rooms before the games as I couldnt bare to listen to them badmouthing other photogrpahers ... they where all old school who didnt adapt to changing times.. simple as that .. still some of them about but not as many... there loss. best to ignore them :)
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I've only had good experiences so far at Anfield, was chatting to a guy who'd been doing it for 35 years and works for AP.
My view is we're all there to do a job and it costs nothing to be nice to each other.
 
Hanley said:
Has anyone witnessed this?

I know there are lots of photographers, myself included, who don't count photography as their main source of income.
For over 7 years I've been photographing sports events and a high percentage of the guys I've worked with do it as a side gig, for me it is running events, Tough Mudder, Iron Man, Hyrox, cycling to name but a few.

As I started to transition into football I was warned that some of the photographers who do this full time carry a lot of hate to what they call 'weekend warriors'.

I've had a couple of conversations with photographers at grounds and they've raised an eyebrow or reacted in some other negative way when I tell them this isn't my main job. I'm always polite and pleasant with people and thankfully I haven't had anyone say anything bad to my face, but I've had bad experiences relayed to me from other 'weekend warriors'.

Photography is my passion, I love it, I love nothing more than having a camera in my hand and I will literally try my hand at photographing anything.

Nothing would make me happier than doing this full-time, but I work in IT in the Banking industry, and have done for over 28 years, my job is boring and I'd love nothing more than to ditch it and move to photography, but I earn 6 figures and have a mortgage and other bills to pay and I know I won't earn anywhere near this doing sports photography full-time.

I'm 52 now and my plan is to try gain as much experience in sports photography as I can, survive in my industry long enough to retire at around 62, and then maybe carry on doing photography during retirement to earn some extra income and keep active.

I'd be interested to hear the experiences of other 'weekend warriors' and even full-time pros as to their experiences or views of this.

In my industry I have a similar experience that I can relate with, I'm a full-time employee, over my 28 years I've seen IT contractors come in for projects, these guys can earn upwards of £800 - £1000 per day, and they end up doing the same job as you. Some of the full timers moan but my response has always been 'there's nothing stopping you doing it'.
Click to expand...
It tends to be those who are willing to give their photos away for free or for credit that cause the issue, rather than fair market value. Organisations will always try to get images for free if they can, and that the devalues the industry in the long term.

Same as the wedding industry when uncle Bob turns up with his camera and does it for $300 and then people think thats what the price is. Or even the one particular story when a B&G turned down a photographer in the 1500 arena for one in the 300 arena and tole the 1500 one they were going with the cheaper option. Then when the cheaper option turned out to be a disaster the B&G criticised the original photographer for not telling them of the pitfalls.

That having been said the question is what are the pros doing in the full time role that a part timer / weekend warrior can't do due to them holding a full time job, to ensure they can "out-business" the part timer ie marketing and building relations
 
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I had my first experience of this at the weekend. Shooting at Donington Park I had been told that given all the car clubs attending Donington Historic Festival the media were not allowed to drive round the circuit...

...so on Saturday morning I trecked up to the far end, I could have driven the car round and just left it outside, but I didn't know if the gate was open for entry...

Anyway when I got round I saw another Tabarded photographer get out his car, so I asked him if he had any trouble getting in....

Immediateley he was very short with me "Look, the gate is open isn't it".

He then said "your new to this aren't you" (Which I am not - I've just been out of the circuit game since I graduated quite a few years ago - Shooting rallies accredited for years)

He then commented on my 400 F2.8..... and said

"you don't do this full time do you"

"I can't afford one of those"

A bit speachless I said "no, but...."

He started walking off so I left it.

Kind of wish i had the opportunity to say "That sounds like a you problem and not a me problem".......
 
A_S said:
I had my first experience of this at the weekend. Shooting at Donington Park I had been told that given all the car clubs attending Donington Historic Festival the media were not allowed to drive round the circuit...

...so on Saturday morning I trecked up to the far end, I could have driven the car round and just left it outside, but I didn't know if the gate was open for entry...

Anyway when I got round I saw another Tabarded photographer get out his car, so I asked him if he had any trouble getting in....

Immediateley he was very short with me "Look, the gate is open isn't it".
Click to expand...
I take a motorhome to the circuits so tend to walk everywhere anyway. Always end up walking miles at Donington though!
 
A_S said:
I had my first experience of this at the weekend. Shooting at Donington Park I had been told that given all the car clubs attending Donington Historic Festival the media were not allowed to drive round the circuit...

...so on Saturday morning I trecked up to the far end, I could have driven the car round and just left it outside, but I didn't know if the gate was open for entry...

Anyway when I got round I saw another Tabarded photographer get out his car, so I asked him if he had any trouble getting in....

Immediateley he was very short with me "Look, the gate is open isn't it".

He then said "your new to this aren't you" (Which I am not - I've just been out of the circuit game since I graduated quite a few years ago - Shooting rallies accredited for years)

He then commented on my 400 F2.8..... and said

"you don't do this full time do you"

"I can't afford one of those"

A bit speachless I said "no, but...."

He started walking off so I left it.

Kind of wish i had the opportunity to say "That sounds like a you problem and not a me problem".......
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So was it a case of he can't afford one but he would like one for his job. If so then its a case of his job not being able to provide him with the tools to do his job as effectively as he would like. Therefore he needs to have a good think about his job priorities
 
I was at the black country museum some years ago. there was a film crew doing a shoot. Everytime I went to take a photo some silly "t*rt" lady with a clip board deliberately stood blocking my shot. It pi**ed me of. So she got a loud unpleaseant mouthful from me that every onlooker heard. She quickly walked away embarrassed.
I don't mine if someone accidently didn't realise I was videoing or photographing that is understandable. But for a "professional" film crew member doing it on purpose is another matter entirely.
 
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Well, so far I have to say, since being at Anfield I've had nothing but pleasant conversations with other photographers, one guy has been doing it for 35 years and I was chatting to him for quite a while before the game.

I always try to be nice to people, regardless of any situation, it costs nothing to smile and be polite.
 
I've seen both sides of Pro togs, ones like Kipax who are polite and helpful, understanding that everyone has to start somewhere, and others who would ruin their own shots just to get in the way of mine. I was at one running event where the pro tog didn't actually get any images as he spent all the time verbally harassing me and trying to get in my way.
 
realspeed said:
I was at the black country museum some years ago. there was a film crew doing a shoot. Everytime I went to take a photo some silly "t*rt" lady with a clip board deliberately stood blocking my shot. It pi**ed me of. So she got a loud unpleaseant mouthful from me that every onlooker heard. She quickly walked away embarrassed.
I don't mine if someone accidently didn't realise I was videoing or photographing that is understandable. But for a "professional" film crew member doing it on purpose is another matter entirely.
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No idea why you are annoyed. It simply shows that you didn't understand what was going on.

On film shoots there is usually someone there to try to prevent stills shots being taken and then released to the press.

She was doing her job.

And calling someone a "silly tart" reflects very much more on you than them.
 
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F1.2 said:
A different take , I do some woodturning and go to the shows , You see up to 10 professional turners displaying work for sale.
Then you see 2 or 3 shed warriors selling item at 1/3 the price , Some pens are being sold at less than the cost of the pen kit.
I asked once how can you do them so cheap , The answer was " I just need to clear out stuff , The wife said so "
The shed warriors are not doing the Pros any favours.
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For many years I was an amateur wood turner. But good enough to be invited to join an exclusive guild of craftsmen.
I became involved though another hobby of spinning and weaving, which led to designing my own spinning wheels and looms. These required many accurate turned parts
So I taught my self wood turning and a small quantity of hand brass turning.

This resulted in me accumulating quantities of exotic and fruit wood off cuts. So I made fancy boxes and sewing and lace making accessories, to make use of them.
I was then invited to supply a craft shop with my "things" to be sold on commission.
In the 70's I was selling my wheels for £400 each which would still be the price of a reasonable wheel today.

(£400 in1970 is worth around £5000 today) Even the best wheels do not sell for that today. So it was good money for a months spare time work.
At that time I was working full time in photography. And regularly employed part time photographers to cover weddings for me at the weekends.

Nothing wrong with part timers in any field if they are good at what they do.


Edit ,,,,the popular top of the range Ashford spinning wheel is now £1068. There are better brands.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
Nothing wrong with part timers in any field if they are good at what they do.
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Exactly that - with the caveat that they charge accordingly at 'professional' rates and act appropriately; ie no 'selfies' with players/managers, no jumping up and celebrating, blocking other people's shots etc etc.


Pitchside is a working environment and needs to be seen as such. I only have an issue if accreditation is seen as a photo jolly.
 
DemiLion said:
No idea why you are annoyed. It simply shows that you didn't understand what was going on.

On film shoots there is usually someone there to try to prevent stills shots being taken and then released to the press.

She was doing her job.

And calling someone a "silly tart" reflects very much more on you than them.
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She had no right to do what she was doing. Simple as that. If the shoot was restricted then the public would not be allowed to watch.
 
realspeed said:
She had no right to do what she was doing. Simple as that. If the shoot was restricted then the public would not be allowed to watch.
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She was in a public place, as you say. She could do what she liked, as long as she didn't assault you.

Your level of self-entitlement is a little bit obvious.
 
realspeed said:
I was at the black country museum some years ago. there was a film crew doing a shoot. Everytime I went to take a photo some silly "t*rt" lady with a clip board deliberately stood blocking my shot. It pi**ed me of. So she got a loud unpleaseant mouthful from me that every onlooker heard. She quickly walked away embarrassed.
I don't mine if someone accidently didn't realise I was videoing or photographing that is understandable. But for a "professional" film crew member doing it on purpose is another matter entirely.
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Many moons ago there was a photographer called Len Pitson who worked for the SouthWales evening post. He did a lot of press work but his favorite was sport. One day at the swansea Vetch ground shooting a footie game he'd positioned himeself near the other teams goal (to get the home team scoring hopefully) A tv cameraman walked across the front of him trailing a cable from a tethered camera.
Len shouted out some thing like "oh mate I'm taking picture here to" the camera man looked at him and just ignored him .
A few minutes later following the action he did it again. Len put his camera down, grabbed the cable, and yanked the cameraman over backwards.
He then "advised" the cameraman to keep the heck out of my shots. He did.
Len was a great character and a fine photographer.
 
DemiLion said:
She was in a public place, as you say. She could do what she liked, as long as she didn't assault you.
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That's not completely accurate.

If the surface on which the two parties were standing might reasonably have been described as a highway, her action might have risen to the level of wilful obstruction as per section 137 the Highways Act 1980. Moreover, if she was doing this by agreement with another ("she was told to do it") then she and the other person might have committed an offence under Part 1 of the Criminal Law Act 1977.

Of course, this is all speculation and one imagines very unlikely but given the right (or perhaps wrong) circumstances, police and prosecuters might chance their arm on a dispute like this.

(please note the bolded words).
 
andrewc said:
^ I’ve had more problems with people shooting video than any photographer shooting stills. No thought for others trying to do their job.
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There was one at Knockhill a few years ago at a BTCC event. Myself and a few other stills photographers were standing at the edge of a red zone waiting for the start of a race when someone shooting video walked past us and proceeded to sit down and get their gear ready. I shouted out to them that they weren't allowed to be in there, and got a blunt response of "I'm shooting video for team X." About 2 minutes later they had been spotted on the CCTV by race control and a marshal was sent in to remove them from the area. I got an awful glare from them as they were escorted back as though I had grassed on them, when in fact I was trying to stop them getting into trouble in the first place...
 
DemiLion said:
No idea why you are annoyed. It simply shows that you didn't understand what was going on.

On film shoots there is usually someone there to try to prevent stills shots being taken and then released to the press.

She was doing her job.

And calling someone a "silly tart" reflects very much more on you than them.
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Unless of course they were trying to shoot something in the museum rather than the film crew
DemiLion said:
She was in a public place, as you say. She could do what she liked, as long as she didn't assault you.

Your level of self-entitlement is a little bit obvious.
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The Black Country Museum isn't a public place its privately owned and you need tickets for admission. Maybe it might have been useful for the BCM to let people know there was filming taking place.
 
You will find people like this everywhere you go. Just do your own thing and let your photos do your talking for you.
 
I am a retired professional photographer. The only sports photography I do now is of my granddaughters gymnastics team at competitions. There is an events company doing photography of the competitors and selling them at the event. To be honest their results are not that impressive but they are hampered by the position they take on the floor in front of the judges. The images more often than not show very distracting elements in the background. I on the other hand am free to take up a better position in the stand. I have a couple of rules that I stick to. I will not photograph any other team and I will not show the photographs of my granddaughters team to the parents at the event (or for a couple of days). I am fully aware that the professional needs to earn a living and would not wish to compromise that. They have never challenged me or tried to prevent me from taking pictures of my granddaughters.
 
CGeezer said:
You will find people like this everywhere you go. Just do your own thing and let your photos do your talking for you.
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Not how it works at sports events. People just want soemthign to show they where there.. A FREE bad picture will usually win over a paid for good picture :( and as mostly for social media then small pictures that can seem blurred or out of focus to us look good on social media

Also being a pro and charging doesnt mean you take better pics than an amatuer anwyay :)
 
Fordsabroad said:
I am a retired professional photographer. The only sports photography I do now is of my granddaughters gymnastics team at competitions. There is an events company doing photography of the competitors and selling them at the event. To be honest their results are not that impressive but they are hampered by the position they take on the floor in front of the judges. The images more often than not show very distracting elements in the background. I on the other hand am free to take up a better position in the stand. I have a couple of rules that I stick to. I will not photograph any other team and I will not show the photographs of my granddaughters team to the parents at the event (or for a couple of days). I am fully aware that the professional needs to earn a living and would not wish to compromise that. They have never challenged me or tried to prevent me from taking pictures of my granddaughters.
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I work on the same basis for my sons karate tournaments - I usually would buy images from the pros, but these don't tend to be great, but I only shoot my boys.
 
KIPAX said:
Not how it works at sports events. People just want soemthign to show they where there.. A FREE bad picture will usually win over a paid for good picture :( and as mostly for social media then small pictures that can seem blurred or out of focus to us look good on social media
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That then suggests there's not really a valid market for images on social media if those people who post are happy to post poor photos. feels like social media is just about content, content, content quantity rather than quality.

KIPAX said:
Also being a pro and charging doesnt mean you take better pics than an amatuer anwyay :)
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So if an amateur can take better photos than the pro, what does the pro have thats worth their fee. Usually any professional offers skills, experience and knowledge that a non-professional cannot offer. Surely deciding to turn pro means that you feel you have something to offer the market that you can't offer as an amateur beyond the label of calling yourself "Pro"
 
I retired 15 years ago and not looking for work but I still get approached. This time, announcement made of who I am and what I'll be doing and why and everything seemed fine and no questions asked and then later someone who didn't pipe up came to see me and starts spouting. Water off a ducks I'm afraid. I waited until he stopped talking, thanked him and moved on.

When getting grief my advice is to be polite and to stick to the brief / deal. You're there for a reason and there's also a reason whoever is bleating didn't get the job.
 
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