Had my first run in with the police today

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John
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I was on my way to an industrial estate today to grab a few B&W shots of a tyre yard, and on my way I came across a pretty horrific car smash.

Now, the emergency services were already there, and the victims were in the process of being cut out. Onlookers were gathering, and there was little I could do as a person. So I didn't feel too bad about parking my car and getting out to take some shots from a distance with my tele lens.

Big mistake.

Within seconds a female police officer lunged at me, yanking the camera strap into her fist and trying to pull it from my neck. I immediately pulled her hand away and demanded to know what she thought she was doing. She said it was illegal to take pictures, and I told her that I didn't wish to cause a disturbance during a sensitive time and would be happy to wait while she checked her facts, and assured her that she was completely wrong.

I explained that as a member of the public, on a public road, I was well within my rights to take pictures, and intended to take the pictures to the local newspaper.

I was polite and courteous to her, and never once came off as arrogant or a know-it-all. She demanded my details, which I gave.

I continued taking shots of the wreckage, mindful that at any minute, the victim may have appeared, and I had already made the conscious decision to cease taking pictures while there were any signs of injured victims in the shot.

A second police officer came over and demanded my camera. I again, calmly explained that he wasn't able to take my camera, and that I was not there to document carnage or gore, merely to capture the efforts of the rescue services. I also explained that the camera didn't hold the pictures, the memory card did.

So he demanded the memory card.

I told him no, and he took my details. Again.

a THIRD police officer came over, demanding the camera, again, I politely declined so he TOOK MY DETAILS.

This is when it got stupid. Out of nowhere, a member of the public came up to me ranting that it was because of people like me that accidents like this happen. I told him to calm down and think about what he was saying, and that it made no sense and couldn't possibly be fair to blame me for a car crash that happened 10 minutes before my arrival. He strongly disagreed, and reacted by THROWING A PUNCH at me and calling me a "$$$$$ing c*nt". The policeman restrained him, and I carried on taking pictures.

A FOURTH policeman came over, demanding the camera, telling me it was now a crime scene. I again explained that he wouldn't be taking the camera, but that he could take my datails for a fourth time, and if he so wished, I would drop the memory card to him at the station if he believed it would help with any investigation that may take place.

He accepted this and left me to it.

By now I was just bored with being approached by people and decided to leave.

Part of me understands that someone may find it inappropriate that a photographer would be taking pictures of a car crash. But nobody said anything to the parents standing around with their children staring at the wreck.

I wasn't trying to catch a glimpse of a body, I was just trying to capture a moment in time. I've never experienced such outright hatred before. I was the enemy in every sense of the word. Everyone I looked at despised me. I was just standing behind the same barrier as everyone else. I wasn't doing stupid photographer poses, or firing my flash. I was just working with available light, firing off a shot every minute or so very calmly with no fuss.

I didn't believe the stories here before, I thought maybe the people here had been cocky with the police and been punished as a result, but now I know that's not true. I went out of my way to be respectful, but they hated me for it.

When I took the pictures to the local paper, they took a copy of the memory card, and then sent a reporter straight to the scene after taking my story and details. I wonder if the reporter will have met the same reception as I did.

Physically attacked for taking some pictures.

I truly understand that I was photopgrahing a sensitive subject. Which is why I stood back, never once attempted to lean over the barrier, constantly checked to make sure I didn't capture any of the victim in the shots and was generally quiet and respectful at all times.

Here's one of the shots, just for reference:

1q48ls.jpg
 
I'd say you dealt with it very well. You didn't lose it (I certainly would have!) even after being swung for. You'll have to let us know if you hear anything from the police.

I wonder whether they were as rude to the guy who attempted to assault you? Hmmmm.
 
Looks like an absolutely horrific smash, my thoughts are with the victims.

With regards to your problem, people are just stupid. I cannot offer any other explanation. Well done for staying calm, I would be in a cell right now.

Gary.
 
Didnt you think that maybe the member of public may have been involved with the accident? or maybe had one himself before? probably why he was wound up. not sure why you would want to take pictures of it anyway, but each to their own.

I dont think i would attempt to take pictures of something like that especially when people`s emotions get worked up and upset by it. Surprised the policeman didnt take the camera off you, you forget he`s well within his rights to move you on from the scene if you are upsetting people.
 
this is an interesting one i suppose and im not really to sure what to make of it, im not, for one minute saying that you are in the wrong but i guess that all these people at the scene including the officers just jumped to the same conclusion and decided that you were taking pictures in a sick kind of way.

Not sure if there is any law against taking photos of accidents like this so i guess it comes down to common sense and police discretion, its not as if you were going up to the car and taking photos of the people inside, surely the angle from which you were taking the photos would suggest that you could not see anything in the car.

Going by what you said you were very respectful and the fact that you were willing to share the details with the police shows that you were not there to gain something for yourself.
It seems as though these days people just want to make something out of nothing, but it would have been interesting to see what the police would have done had that bloke connected with you when throwing the punch, surely something could be made of it along the lines of "intention to cause harm" it seems as though the police made the issue worse by making a fuss in trying to retrieve the camera from you.
So you then have to ask the question, would the bloke have done anything at all had the police not bothered you? I would think the answer to that would be "no". It seems as though this one clown just wanted to jump on the bandwagon. there really are some muppets around these days.


After all that has been said i hope everyone involved in the accident were ok.
 
not sure why you would want to take pictures of it anyway, but each to their own.

HE IS A PHOTOGRAPHER!!!

Why do we debate "taking photos", here of all places? People NEED to see these photos, I for one will be slowing down the next time I take my car out, as a result of that photo above.

Gary.
 
Don't worry about it, you've done nothing wrong. in fact as you discribe it you've done everything right, by offering the police access to the images(although i think they can actually demand a copy) the only thing i would of have done differently is ask for the toerag that swung a punch at you to be charged with assault!!
 
If a BBC newsteam had been there they would have been in front of the lens not in your face!!.
Well done for staying calm.
 
Looks nasty - makes you wonder if yo should have requested the person who tried to hit you be done for assault.
 
Didnt you think that maybe the member of public may have been involved with the accident? or maybe had one himself before? probably why he was wound up. not sure why you would want to take pictures of it anyway, but each to their own.

I dont think i would attempt to take pictures of something like that especially when people`s emotions get worked up and upset by it. Surprised the policeman didnt take the camera off you, you forget he`s well within his rights to move you on from the scene if you are upsetting people.

Yes, of course I thought that he may have been involved. Which is why I didn't attempt to fight back or insist that charges be filed. I just ignored him.

As for emotions, this was on a dual carriageway. There were no witnesses except the victims involved, who were either stuck in the car or already on the way to the hospital. There were 30 or so bystanders, mainly parents with their children, watching from the same area as me, and I figured I would take pictures of the scene and give the memory card to the local newspaper. Which I have done.

I understand that it is a sensitive situation to be in, but photographers use their cameras to document moments in time and to capture life. In all it's guises. I don't think I did wrong by taking pictures of inanimate pieces of metal. I would've shut my camera down the moment an injured party came in the shot, which they didn't.

Where do you draw the line, am I to assume that everyone should be happy with me taking pictures before I fire a shot, or should I just take the picture, knowing that I intend no malice?

I think the latter.
 
Looks nasty - makes you wonder if yo should have requested the person who tried to hit you be done for assault.

Maybe he was just upset at what he had seen. I doubt he really intended to hit me. It's not like he wound the punch up and aimed at my face. It was more of a lunge with a clenched fist, if that makes sense.

That being said, he did stand there watching me for the entire time, so maybe he was just standing there winding himself up.
 
Get yourself a fluorescent yellow jacket. Have PRESS PHOTOGRAPHER on the back. No one will say a word to you.

Speak to the nearest Plod and tell them you are taking photos for the local evening news paper. They are usually OK with it.

I love to know why someone would think a photographer happening upon a scene of an accident, could be the cause of it. Weird or what.

Good shot, newsworthy item.

Another good trick to fox the Plod. Depending on your Camera. Stick a cheapo SD card in the slot, next to your 4GB CF card. If the police demand your card, out pops the SD card.
 
Public place, its not illegal. Did you get the officers numbers or names? File a report with the local station. Members of the press aren't above the law and they photograph these things all the time because its not illegal.
 
Get yourself a fluorescent yellow jacket. Have PRESS PHOTOGRAPHER on the back. No one will say a word to you.

They may ask to see your press card or ask who you work for though. Never seen a press photographer wearing a shirt like that unless specifically issued by an events team.
 
There was a PDF file kicking around with tog's rights that you could print off that had the letter of the law on it.

Ive got a copy printed and laminated in my camera bag that can be handed to any cops that "think" they know what the hell they are talking about.
 
I'd certainly be making complaints. It worries me that if they're shaky on the law in this area, what other areas of the law are they getting wrong?

Rikki, you reckon you could find that PDF anywhere? Sounds useful.

EDIT: Was this it?
 
Yes, of course I thought that he may have been involved. Which is why I didn't attempt to fight back or insist that charges be filed. I just ignored him.

As for emotions, this was on a dual carriageway. There were no witnesses except the victims involved, who were either stuck in the car or already on the way to the hospital. There were 30 or so bystanders, mainly parents with their children, watching from the same area as me, and I figured I would take pictures of the scene and give the memory card to the local newspaper. Which I have done.

I understand that it is a sensitive situation to be in, but photographers use their cameras to document moments in time and to capture life. In all it's guises. I don't think I did wrong by taking pictures of inanimate pieces of metal. I would've shut my camera down the moment an injured party came in the shot, which they didn't.

Where do you draw the line, am I to assume that everyone should be happy with me taking pictures before I fire a shot, or should I just take the picture, knowing that I intend no malice?

I think the latter.

I know you wasn`t gonna take a picture of an injured person, but the bystanders dont, and you know they are always gonna think the worst straight away, just like another topic on here the other day about "all photographers are perverts" just because you are taking pictures of a school nativity play or `near` a playground people think the worst dont they?
 
Public place, its not illegal. Did you get the officers numbers or names? File a report with the local station. Members of the press aren't above the law and they photograph these things all the time because its not illegal.

Didn't get any names or numbers, petemc, I think at the time it would've caused undue attention and just made me look worse. I was already right up there with Stalin and Hitler as far as human rights abuses go. They didn't take my camera, and beyond their obsession with knowing my name and address and with members of the public attacking me without warning, it wasn't that bad.

I like what photographerian said about the jacket, I would really like to have an id card of some sort that identified me as a freelance photographer.
 
They may ask to see your press card or ask who you work for though. Never seen a press photographer wearing a shirt like that unless specifically issued by an events team.

Regardless, grab a hi-vis jacket without 'PRESS PHOTOGRAPHER' on the back. People fortunately don't seem to question anyone in attire that makes the photographer look like someone other than a morbid member of public.
 
Within seconds a female police officer lunged at me, yanking the camera strap into her fist and trying to pull it from my neck.


So a police officer grabbed you by the neck before saying a word to you???? Is that illegal?
 
I know you wasn`t gonna take a picture of an injured person, but the bystanders dont, and you know they are always gonna think the worst straight away, just like another topic on here the other day about "all photographers are perverts" just because you are taking pictures of a school nativity play or `near` a playground people think the worst dont they?

Because people are morons, lets be honest. Why would a p*** or a pervert turn up at a playground with a DSLR? Answer? They wouldn't. Chances are they would covertly use the smallest camera, and hide.

People are simply stupid.

Gary.
 
HE IS A PHOTOGRAPHER!!!

Why do we debate "taking photos", here of all places? People NEED to see these photos, I for one will be slowing down the next time I take my car out, as a result of that photo above.

Gary.

Ok fair play i got it wrong i`m sorry, but can i ask you what you think if maybe it was you in a car crash or your parents? i know i probably wouldn`t be in the most joyfull mood of someone taking photos.

At the end of the day `leave1` hasnt done anything wrong but you know how people are these days they will kick up a fuss over nothing just the other topic `all photographers are perverts` do you not agree that most people are over-reacting?
 
there must be some coppers on this forum, who would like to give some advise to anyone on here ,that may have to deal with the police whislt taking photos crash scene etc
 
They had a go because you was taking photo's?

Why were they all stood around watching?

Maybe it was just a case of you being there negated (in their minds) their need for any kind of conscience.
 
Maybe we should invite a rozzer (or lawyer) to explain the law, to the letter, and why so many of their brethren haven't a clue about the legality of public photography?
 
Maybe we should invite a rozzer (or lawyer) to explain the law, to the letter, and why so many of their brethren haven't a clue about the legality of public photography?

Thats a very good idea but i`ll think you`ll find out that each copper has a different idea of what the law is regarding photography, we`d all like to know.
 
While I agree with it's your right to take pictures in public, aren't you taking it a bit far?

It's a sensitive situation, people are probably hurt, last thing they probably want is randoms taking pictures of them. It annoys me when you see an accident and people are there there with phones and cameras trying to get pictures.

Seems like you took some pictures, were told to stop a couple of times, but kept on going. Why not just stop once you've got a couple, and leave it at that?
 
Thats a very good idea but i`ll think you`ll find out that each copper has a different idea of what the law is regarding photography, we`d all like to know.
Sorry, I meant have one who actually knows the law to explain it, sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
While I agree with it's your right to take pictures in public, aren't you taking it a bit far?

It's a sensitive situation, people are probably hurt, last thing they probably want is randoms taking pictures of them. It annoys me when you see an accident and people are there there with phones and cameras trying to get pictures.

Seems like you took some pictures, were told to stop a couple of times, but kept on going. Why not just stop once you've got a couple, and leave it at that?

Because.....he is.....a Photograp....

Oh forget it.

Gary.
 
I've never seen a press tog with a High Vis jacket on either, but its a known fact, if it looks like you're supposed to be there, joe public thinks you are as well.

When I first started as a Pro photographer, an old timer Press tog told me that if your not asked to move several times, or told you are in the way, then you're not doing your job properly.
 
So a police officer grabbed you by the neck before saying a word to you???? Is that illegal?

No, she grabbed the camera strap which was around my neck and twisted it in her fist while saying "Right I'm taking this camera off you", or words to that affect.

I'd imagine it's illegal. What I can't imagine is wasting my time in a courtroom while officer after officer files into the box denying any knowledge of her doing it lol
 
Well done for standing your ground with the coppers. I think you where right to do what you did. A front page shot on the local paper at this time of year will make people think about how they are behaving, from speeding to drink driving.

I little while ago there wasa very sad story of a young family who where killed on the M6. Now I have to drive that section of the M6 to get to work, and on the nearest bridge where 4 outside broadcast vans, trying to get shots of the accident. This instance is no different, and I doubt they got told by the coppers to stop, or got smacked for their trouble.

At the most I think the police could have done was to say tell you that you had taken enough pictures, and that you could cause a scene as other bystanders were getting annoyed at you being there, so can you stop now before it becomes a problem. But how where you to know tha someone was gonna do that.

Well done for behaving in a respectful and professional manner.

I woudl write to your Chief constable and suggest his PC's check facts before four of them not only waste time bullying you, but also repeat themselves, four times over.
 
Ok fair play i got it wrong i`m sorry, but can i ask you what you think if maybe it was you in a car crash or your parents? i know i probably wouldn`t be in the most joyfull mood of someone taking photos.

At the end of the day `leave1` hasnt done anything wrong but you know how people are these days they will kick up a fuss over nothing just the other topic `all photographers are perverts` do you not agree that most people are over-reacting?


But were these not the same 'ghouls' that were stood around waiting to see some 'action' ??

Its these peoples motives that should be questioned IMO
 
Yeah me too. Doesn't mean I stop and take pictures of accidents, unless they are on the race track.

Thats fine, but if you did, you would be doing nothing wrong, at all. In fact, by sharing those images, you are doing a public service and making sure people who see your work, think twice before being an arse behind the wheel.

Gary.
 
These are always tricky situations and even if the people watching have no connection to the victims, emotions can still run high, even amongst the police as they never get desensitised to this sort of carnage.

That said, the officer was definitely out of order and was actually committing assault by grabbing hold of the camera, so you should have taken a name or number and lodged a complaint, otherwise they will behave in the same way again. As for the guy who to a swing, he was probably referring to the Diana crash where press photographers were blamed.
 
unless they are on the race track

sure they love it too when they crash on a track,all the cams go off lolol
 
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