H&S gone mad

tdodd said:
I had a new Sky dish fitted recently. The installer said he would have to drill a hole in the outside wall as a health and safety measure in order to tether and secure the ladder. He also advised me that he would not use the tether but that he would have to drill the hole regardless as he was on probation, his work would be checked and the hole must be present. I protested that this was stupid but he said "No hole, no dish.". So I gave him the go ahead. He shot up the ladder like a rat up a drainpipe and once the install was complete he went back to drill the hole.

He didn't give two hoots about his own safety (not that I imagine there was any real risk beyond that faced daily by window cleaners), only making sure he could get his tick in the box to pass his probation. So I've had my wall spoiled for no useful reason and he has not benefited one jot from the H&S regs. Any stats collected are a sham. Nobody wins. It's farcical.
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He sounds like a complete idiot..... You should have reported him for his own safety and anyone else he ends up working with in the future.
 
I feel I should point out that I'm a Health and Safety Consultant.......


The HSAW act has been in place since 1974 & until recently the world was a happy safe place.....


Then some idiot let Lawyers advertise !


I've got a client being sued just now because a worker forgot he was on a stepladder & stepped backwards, fell off & broke his arm. My Clients Insurance company will pay out as it's cheaper than going to court to defend the claim...

If Joe Public took responsibilty for his own stupid actions then our Insurance premiums would go down, "Ambulance Chasers For You" would go bust and we could all get on with making money...... SAFELY :thumbs:
 
Splog said:
He sounds like a complete idiot..... You should have reported him for his own safety and anyone else he ends up working with in the future.
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The follow-up check did take place, the following day. I wasn't at home at the time but I had briefed my girlfriend about the incident. She told the "inspectors", for want of a better word, the facts as she knew them. I have no idea of the outcome, but we did our bit.
 
tdodd said:
The follow-up check did take place, the following day. I wasn't at home at the time but I had briefed my girlfriend about the incident. She told the "inspectors", for want of a better word, the facts as she knew them. I have no idea of the outcome, but we did our bit.
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:thumbs:
 
It's the fault of society.

I'm retired now but when I worked I used to do a lot of H&S, I did product approval and general risk assessments.

The thing with H&S these days is you have to assume that everyone is either a liar or a half wit and that no matter which they are they'll deffo know the number of their local no win no fee solicitor.

If we could get rid of the compensation culture we'd get rid of OTT risk assessments and waaaaaay OTT H&S generally because it's not really H&S it's just an attempt to limit the legal actions and the flow of cash out of the company and into the pockets of dishonest devious selfish money grabbers.
 
woof woof said:
If we could get rid of the compensation culture we'd get rid of OTT risk assessments and waaaaaay OTT H&S generally because it's not really H&S it's just an attempt to limit the legal actions and the flow of cash out of the company and into the pockets of dishonest devious selfish money grabbers.
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:agree:
 
woof woof said:
The thing with H&S these days is you have to assume that everyone is either a liar or a half wit and that no matter which they are they'll deffo know the number of their local no win no fee solicitor.

If we could get rid of the compensation culture we'd get rid of OTT risk assessments and waaaaaay OTT H&S generally because it's not really H&S it's just an attempt to limit the legal actions and the flow of cash out of the company and into the pockets of dishonest devious selfish money grabbers.
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:plusone: ...er, +2.

When I was first trained in H&S 20 years ago, it was all about mutal responsibility and looking out for each other. Now its all about who higher up a chain can be made responsible so its "their" problem not "ours".

Ironically, one of the reasons for the introduction of NoWinNoFee was to improve safety in general by making legal action more accessable to people who'd been injured and had no money (wasn't that the idea of Legal Aid though...) ...but instead its just driven up costs for everything either directly (eg. car insurance premiums) or indirectly (overheads on everything you buy, millions of man hours wasted pushing paper, etc). And people still get killed at work...
 
flossie said:
:plusone: ...er, +2.

When I was first trained in H&S 20 years ago, it was all about mutal responsibility and looking out for each other.
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It still is!
 
JohnK said:
we've had to do the water testing for over 10 years, plus after every strong wind we have stand by each tree to check it's still safe. before I left, I spent most of my day doing things like this and not the job I was employed too do. (Local gov.):cuckoo:
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when i was local gov i once had to write a risk assesment for boiling the kettle - being a gob***** i wrote a spoof one which started with the valuable information that boiling water was hot, and moved on to cover such hazards as that the smell of herbal tea might attract bears (so a rifle should be kept in the office at all times) and that too much caffeine might induce psychosis in some staff members (so rifles should not be kept in the office) and so on..

I also wrote a risk assesment for doing risk assesments, which included the risk that "the mind boggling stupidity of the nannystate might cause staff to suffer mental overload and breakdown - amerilorating factor Risk assesments to only be carried out by H&S officers after the lobotomy and rather than wasting the time of those with actual work to do"

Strangely our elf an safety officer didnt see the funny side and I wound up in front of the boss explaining why i didnt treat the RA procedure with due seriousness.
 
Splog said:
It still is!
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unfortunetly whilst the H&S@W Act 1974 still applies, there have been a raft of newer things come along in recent years that change things (particularly various things getting enshrined in British Standards, European Directives, and so on) so that individual named people are now responsible, so everyone else can do what they like, its their problem to worry about these things not ours.

Of course, you could easily say that's always been the case, and the HS@W act was just trying to fight a historical culture of "not my problem jack" workers vs management attitude, otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary... for example, every single workplace has to have a copy of the Act prominently displayed on the wall, or the employer will be heavily fined. How many people have ever read it, let alone done anythign as a result... :shake: what a waste of effort...
 
flossie said:
unfortunetly whilst the H&S@W Act 1974 still applies, there have been a raft of newer things come along in recent years that change things (particularly various things getting enshrined in British Standards, European Directives, and so on) so that individual named people are now responsible, so everyone else can do what they like, its their problem to worry about these things not ours.

Of course, you could easily say that's always been the case, and the HS@W act was just trying to fight a historical culture of "not my problem jack" workers vs management attitude, otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary... for example, every single workplace has to have a copy of the Act prominently displayed on the wall, or the employer will be heavily fined. How many people have ever read it, let alone done anythign as a result... :shake: what a waste of effort...
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Sorry Richard! .... but most of that is rubbish.

Every worker has a duty of care for both themselves and their co-workers.
 
some very amusing tales and stories here........... also some shockers!

Please don't get me wrong, H&S is important, for instance on a building site, hart at, steelies and hi -vis should be mandatory............... but archaeologists working on a trench in a field needing hard hats?

We have a kettle in our office to be used for the purpose of warminig cold water to a good temperature for making caffiene and caffiene free based checks........... I got offered training on how to use it. (Yes I am serious.)

The fact that I have been using one without harm for 25+ yrs was deemed irrelevent or I can go and buy one and use it without any formal training from a multitude of places.


@Demilion - ouch! Though is that H&S or crap maintenance by the hotel? Or I could ask who stands under a hot shower on full combat reheat to start off?
 
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Splog said:
Sorry Richard! .... but most of that is rubbish.

Every worker has a duty of care for both themselves and their co-workers.
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Sorry, but it isn't. Its now all about a nominated individual and making them liable for all decisions and anything that happens... Yes each worker still has responsibilties, but only in a very narrow frame determined by that nominated person...anything outside that, its not their problem. The clock has been turned backwards again thanks to lawyers...
 
I got *******ed at work for putting my crash helmet on my desk. When I asked why I was told that if anybody walked across my desk they might trip over it.
 
Lynton said:
@Demilion - ouch! Though is that H&S or crap maintenance by the hotel? Or I could ask who stands under a hot shower on full combat reheat to start off?
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The hot water temp in the system was too high (circa 90°) and the shower controls were duff; ie I went to turn the water off and it turned to full hot because it jammed. The 1.5 sec was the reaction time that it took to get out of the enclosed cubical!

Don't get me wrong, there are times when H&S is daft, but there are others when the guidelines are dodged and people get hurt -me in this case.
 
malo50 said:
I got *******ed at work for putting my crash helmet on my desk. When I asked why I was told that if anybody walked across my desk they might trip over it.
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which makes perfect sense - obviously its safer to leave it on the floor where people can avoid such trip hazards by walking on the desks... as is of course normal practice :cuckoo:
 
flossie said:
Sorry, but it isn't. Its now all about a nominated individual and making them liable for all decisions and anything that happens... Yes each worker still has responsibilties, but only in a very narrow frame determined by that nominated person...anything outside that, its not their problem. The clock has been turned backwards again thanks to lawyers...
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Hi Richard

I really don't understand where you're getting the idea of a nominated individual from? ..... H&S has nothing to do with lawyers!
 
I hate the cotton wool nanny state we live it, I appreciate that health and safety does have some benefits and is needed, but then it gets proper stupid on how far it goes to.

Whats the bet that in 5 years our boys in afghanistan will get pulled out because health and safety regulations state it is dangerous for our soldiers to work in a warzone because there is a high risk of getting shot and killed.

Silly you may think? Not half as silly as some of the crappy H&S we are seeing appear all over the place
 
archamedes said:
I hate the cotton wool nanny state we live it, I appreciate that health and safety does have some benefits and is needed, but then it gets proper stupid on how far it goes to.

Whats the bet that in 5 years our boys in afghanistan will get pulled out because health and safety regulations state it is dangerous for our soldiers to work in a warzone because there is a high risk of getting shot and killed.

Silly you may think? Not half as silly as some of the crappy H&S we are seeing appear all over the place
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It will happen. If the H&S guys had been around in WW2 there is no way we would have won. Can you see them agreeing to the Dambusters raid???

Sad thing is thats kids are being bought up in this way. Conker fights banned due to H&S, Bulldog banned too...
 
Another example of H&S stupidity is the tesco restaurant in our town. We usually go there for breakfast some days, however one day we got there at 12.15pm and my son wanted toast. The stupid splitarse turned around and said "sorry its passed 12pm now and health and safety says i cant make toast anymore, but i can put beans on bread for him."

Me being known as the outspoken person turned around and said

"what retarded BS are you talking you bow legged freak? Are you honestly telling me that health and safety in this kitchen that requires hot ovens and hobs now has a time limit for toast?" We got our toast in the end but then i wanted mushrooms and she then said "sorry, we ran out." So not best pleased still i said "this cafe is in the middle of tescos, i can see the produce section from here, how the hell have you ran out of mushrooms?"
 
Another good one... the local soft play area near me. I think the owner has a fetish about signs, as they are everywhere, on child at a time on trampoline (never enforced), no parents on slides, no photography... and these are repeated every few feet. Fair enough about each child is your responsibility and so on... but :

"Due to H&S you are not able to consume own food aside from baby food, apart from food purchased here".

So, if i wanted to bring a sandwich or crisps with me that is a H&S issue, yet I can buy muffins, sandwiches and hot food from you without it being a H&S issue.
 
The H&S lot also get involved with other matters, and not just the workplace. In my town they have an annual pram race (self built prams, etc.)They start off in a car park next the the river, through the town, onto an old rail line(now a pedestrian walk)then back towards the river; cross it on a footbridge; round some fields, then they used to push their prams across the river bed to get back to the starting point in the car park. The river is very shallow where they crossed back. H&S stopped them pushing through the water, " as competitors might fall and hurt themselves." A former competitor told me this last year, and I started laughing because I thought he was spinning the tale, but he was not. I wonder where they find the 'creatures' the H&S employ. Do they all have Hitler moustaches, but are told "You must shave it off before we employ you." ?
 
That pillock on the advert who successfully claimed because he was given the wrong type of ladder to install a light always makes my blood boil. He's the one trained in the correct use of ladders, he should accept responsibility for his own safety and only do the job with the correct equipment.
 
flossie said:
That's not H&S.... That's "had a trip or fall at work? Want free money? Call Ambulance Chasers - Today!".
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Yep. You've all got yourselves to blame. No-one else. Grow a pair. Greedy, grasping, selfish, americanised 'me, me, me,' . And if there's anything left afterward, I'll have that too.
How do you think the HSE works? Do you honestly think ( do you think.) they just sit and dream up this stuff, or perhaps, just perhaps, they collate data and act on it?
 
I saw a programme last year about people who use those claim 4 injury companies you see that old geezer from the bill and eastenders advertising on tv. It really did annoy me watching it because you see how people are using it as a way to make money and nobody can be held responsible for their own clumsiness anymore. One story that really pee'd me off was a kid who was in school playing football in the playground and he tripped over the drain and hurt his delicate little snowflake legs. His mum and dad sued the school and got a massive pay out. The council now have a guy that goes around to check these accidental areas and its down to him who makes the decision if the claim is valid or not and he made an interesting point that kids cant fall over and play anymore without their parents suing the school. Then they complain that the school cant afford new sports equipment new computers and other new learning materials, where the hell do they think the money comes from?

Its the same when people constantly try to sue because they fell over a kerb or walked into a sign. Councils have to pay out billions in compensation to clumsy people, then when the council tax goes up, it is clearly obvious that you are paying back the council the money you earnt from the compensation they sent you.
 
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DemiLion said:
approx 2 seconds under full Hot setting.

Anyone else want to complain about H&S at work?
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OUCH! Mark. I hope you are OK now?

mrgubby said:
I feel I should point out that I'm a Health and Safety Consultant.......
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Ah ok that explains a lot :thumbs: :p

mrgubby said:
The HSAW act has been in place since 1974 & until recently the world was a happy safe place.....
Then some idiot let Lawyers advertise !
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Have been saying that for years, seems we agree on something at last :lol:

The whole litigation society (inherited form the "states" no doubt)
that we now seem to find ourselves in, is a
a complete joke! And does nothing to help the safer working environment :shake:
 
DemiLion said:
Perzactly!

If the hotel that I'd stayed in had carried out proper risk assessment and didn't have a broken shower temperature control this wouldn't have happened:

approx 2 seconds under full Hot setting.

Anyone else want to complain about H&S at work?
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I'm guessing that came about because the broken temperature dial meant that it was always 100% hot that comes through? It looks incredibly painful!
 
It niggled a bit, that's for sure! :D

Chris- Yup, it was over 4 years ago although there's a bit of residual scarring left.
 
archamedes said:
One story that really pee'd me off was a kid who was in school playing football in the playground and he tripped over the drain and hurt his delicate little snowflake legs. His mum and dad sued the school and got a massive pay out.
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I'd be very careful on this if I were you. I smashed my leg at school playing hockey on the concrete playground where they had a stainless steel drain-cover that was so old it was perfectly smooth - they then insisted we play on a day where the Chief Fire Officer for Birmingham was advising people to only leave their houses in emergencies due to the strong wind and lashing rain.

Needless to say my running leg slipped, my right foot kicked the floor and and shin followed through with momentum. At the time I was a 16 stone rugby player who could leg press 1400lb.

I broke my leg at 3:30pm (ish) and by midnight was rushed into surgery to have an emergency operation - had they taken another 15-20 minutes to get me in (that's when a theatre and surgeon was next available after breaking my leg) I would have had to have it amputated at the knee.

I was in hospital for 2 weeks as an in patient, was attending physio and fracture clinic once a week 9each) for 6 months. 5 operations later and 2 years before I was fully discharged and could start to walk/run again. My accident was deemed major trauma.

All of this for slipping on a playground drain cover - which the school had concreted over the following morning as the cover was no longer needed since an expansion of the building and new drainage.

My parents and I sought compensation for costs incurred and loss of earnings (my mum quit her job to become a full time home carer for me) - this money did not come out of a school budget (as you seem to think) nor does it come from the council - it comes from an insurance policy that all schools have to have. It ended up costing my school about an extra £50 a year in premiums on the insurance which is something they can live with I'm sure.
 
ok well your story may be different but in the programme i saw, it was a clear grated drain, nothing odd or wrong with it, the boy didnt need surgery, he didnt lose school or have any long term damage, he twisted his ankle and graised his leg. He was telling his horrifying tale, that still keeps him up at night... while playing football in the front garden. He earnt himself 15 grand and now the school probably cant afford any new things for next year, and the drain... it still remains as it was when he originally tripped over it
 
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Wooohoo, I'm in the money :)

While at school, I was attacked by a known nutter (6 weeks in hospital with moved Intestines & torn Kidneys)
Broke my Collar bone slipping on a known icy playing field (4 weeks of school)
Caught Dysentary from the Head Teacher (6 weeks in an isolation ward)


Should be worth a few pounds from Ambulance Chasers for You :)
 
Archamedes, forgive my slight disbelief in your story - but you don't get £15 for a grazed knee. You'd only get up to £5.4k for a basic (non femur) fracture for example.

It works on a set scale set out by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, not some random figures plucked out of thin air.
 
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DemiLion said:
It works on a set scale set out by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, not some random figures plucked out of thin air.
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well it does if it goes to court - if the insurance company decides to settle out of court it can be anything - i'd imagine it was compensation for loss of earnings of the parent who had to take time off work to care for him or some such rather than being specifically for the injury
 
The compulsory H&S training at my current job was great! The regional h&s managers exact words were 'You know how to lift a box properly don't you? Good. Oh, and by the way, the sides of the swimming pools may be a little slippy! ' and then proceeded to read his emails. He wasn't neglecting his job though, he just knows the culture of the people in our company.

Not long after I was standing on a chair running cable through a ceiling in one of our gyms (just a temporary bodge... I'm no cowboy... Honest) and my phone rang. Completely forgetting what I was doing I stepped backward and landed splat on the floor. I don't even think I'd have the nerve to try sue.... Just had a good laugh, and slightly red face!
 
After reading posts on here regarding H&S you would think it was a conspiracy to make life more difficult or to keep some jobsworth in a job with a gold plated pension. Yeah sure. The reason this country has gone health and safety mad is because of the blame claim culture. Somebody trips on the wet leaves outside your house and your likely to be sued for physical damages as well as emotional ones :) We have gone claim crazy money paid out by LA's in claims is astronomical. The best thing though is its not the workshy dole scroungers neither is it the immigrants who have taken all our well paid jobs lol no we cant look at the usual scapegoats for this. Instead its normal people like me and you who seem to take any opportunity to earn some money from the slightest misfortune that befalls us as long as we can find someone to blame. So next time you want to moan at excessive health n safety take a good look in the mirror.

Steve
 
big soft moose said:
well it does if it goes to court - if the insurance company decides to settle out of court it can be anything - i'd imagine it was compensation for loss of earnings of the parent who had to take time off work to care for him or some such rather than being specifically for the injury
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Valid point - I'd forgotten to account for the parent!

Having said that, most out of court settlements will still be based around the CIC scheme, except that the defendant will be seeking to avoid legal fees by offering the middle to upper end of the scale.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Needless to say my running leg slipped, my right foot kicked the floor and and shin followed through with momentum. At the time I was a 16 stone rugby player who could leg press 1400lb.
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16 stone rugby player and still in school? Remind me to never upset you! I promise to agree with all your opinions!

On a serious note, hope the leg is fine. Did you get back to playing eventually?
 
steve_v said:
The best thing though is its not the workshy dole scroungers neither is it the immigrants who have taken all our well paid jobs lol no we cant look at the usual scapegoats for this.
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don't even get me started on that one, If its one thing I cant stand its the builders sitting in the pub with his 4th pint of wifebeater at 2pm on a wednesday afternoon, with his work phone switched off complaining that the polish Stole his work... Sorry they didn't steal it, we gave it to them on a silver platter. But going into that is another thread all together
 
H&S has become a joke plain and simple. How long before we have new borns issued with a written document explaining that life can be dangerous.:bang:

Some mates were pulled up recently for not wearing their work helmets. Apparently some do gooder had grassed them up. May I point out to this do gooder that any such actions in the future may result in minor injuries to the eye and nose area and can be avoided by wearing a disguise. Do gooders will forthwith come under the heading G.R.A.S.S in your workplace RA. G.R.A.S.S stands for Get Real And Stop Snitching;)

Have a nice day, ya all.:lol:
 
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