Gutted… need a bit of help from experienced film users

[Marino]

Went out after a long time to take pictures but when I developed the film only the first few frames were exposed the rest were unexposed…The film counter was 36, and pretty sure I pushed the shutter button at least 36 times.
So obviously there’s something wrong with the camera.
The camera is a Pentax mx i recently got.
When I’ve opened the back after retrieving the film the film advance mechanism was moving ok.
When i reached the 36th frame i realised something is wrong because the advance lever wasn’t getting harder to advance. Usually towards the end i get a bit more resistance and eventually it stops advancing. In this case it just kept going.
I assumed the film snapped out of the film cassette.
Here’s the film:

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Are the sprocket holes between the last successful exposure and the first blank damaged?

Also, have you checked that the sprocket wheel is fully engaged? i.e. you can't turn it backwards with your finger.

 

[Marino]

yes the film sprocket holes look undamaged/same as the rest.

And the sprocket drive/wheel circled in yellow advances ok and when i hold it with my finger i get resistance from the advance lever and still moves ok. When the shutter is cocked it doesn’t move back or forth. The take up spool circled in red is the same and works fine….

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Is the pressure plate properly mounted and moving on its spring?

Do you ever touch the area around the rewind button when using the camera? ...and, is the rewind button properly seated (not sticking out below the baseplate)

 

[shapeshifter]

If the film was not advancing you would have one big black frame, the last one before the camera stopped advancing.

Have you checked the shutter is opening and the diaphram is operating properly?

 

[ChrisR]

If the film was not advancing you would have one big black frame, the last one before the camera stopped advancing.

Have you checked the shutter is opening and the diaphram is operating properly?

The last frame does appear pretty black in the photo.

Went out after a long time to take pictures but when I developed the film only the first few frames were exposed the rest were unexposed…The film counter was 36, and pretty sure I pushed the shutter button at least 36 times.
So obviously there’s something wrong with the camera.
The camera is a Pentax mx i recently got.
When I’ve opened the back after retrieving the film the film advance mechanism was moving ok.
When i reached the 36th frame i realised something is wrong because the advance lever wasn’t getting harder to advance. Usually towards the end i get a bit more resistance and eventually it stops advancing. In this case it just kept going.

On my MXs I've not noticed the last frame getting harder to advance, until I get to the one that won't...

I assumed the film snapped out of the film cassette.

No, I don't think the film has snapped out of the cassette, or you wouldn't have been able to rewind it. I think Andrew's suggestion of the rewind button accidentally getting pushed in is the most likely (or perhaps a failure in that mechanism somewhere...).

 

[Marino]

Is the pressure plate properly mounted and moving on its spring?

Yes pressure plate is looking good. Just out of curiosity how would that be relevant?

Do you ever touch the area around the rewind button when using the camera? ...and, is the rewind button properly seated (not sticking out below the baseplate)

That’s something I’ll never find. First thing that crossed my mind is that I accidentally pushed that button. We’re taking about this button right? All i know is that I had to push the button to retrieve the film at the end.


The thing is, that when the button is pressed, the next time i advance the lever it makes the button reset to it’s original position. Unless it’s different when the film is loaded. I tried this with the film back closed and no film in.

 

[Marino]

Have you checked the shutter is opening and the diaphram is operating properly?

Yes I forgot the check the obvious and the shutter /aperture is working ok on all speeds.

If the film was not advancing you would have one big black frame, the last one before the camera stopped advancing.

About the last frame. It looks like it’s only 2 frames overlapping each other. That’s Strange?

So that means the film was not advancing and not taking pictures…..
It’s an slr so it’s not a case of having forgotten the cap on the lens

 

[Marino]

No, I don't think the film has snapped out of the cassette, or you wouldn't have been able to rewind it. I think Andrew's suggestion of the rewind button accidentally getting pushed in is the most likely (or perhaps a failure in that mechanism somewhere...).

I thought it snapped because there was also no resistance from the rewind lever. I was so certain it snapped that i took the camera in the changing bag in case it did. But that wasn’t the case..

 

[Marino]

I think this is a dead end for trying to figure out what happened. The question now is , do i use the camera again or test it somehow? Thx very much everyone the help is much appreciated

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Yes pressure plate is looking good. Just out of curiosity how would that be relevant?

If the pressure plate becomes too loose, the film can slip off the sprocket teeth. I've had that a couple of times over the last 50 years or so.

The thing is, that when the button is pressed, the next time i advance the lever it makes the button reset to it’s original position.

That's exactly how it should work. The problem I have seen is that an inexperienced user sometimes puts their thumb on the baseplate and inadvertently depresses the rewind button. That disengages the sprocket so no more film travels through the camera. However, if the button is resetting properly, the worst you can do is double expose your current frame.

 

[Plain Nev]

It looks to me as if the film wasn't threaded onto the take up spool firmly. Simple as that. We've all done it.

 

[Marino]

If the pressure plate becomes too loose, the film can slip off the sprocket teeth. I've had that a couple of times over the last 50 years or so.

Ahh, good to know.

That's exactly how it should work. The problem I have seen is that an inexperienced user sometimes puts their thumb on the baseplate and inadvertently depresses the rewind button. That disengages the sprocket so no more film travels through the camera. However, if the button is resetting properly, the worst you can do is double expose your current frame.

That’s what i thought. But as you said worst case scenario it’s a double exposure. I’ll run a film in and try push the button and see what happens after winding the film advance lever.

 

[Marino]

It looks to me as if the film wasn't threaded onto the take up spool firmly. Simple as that. We've all done it.

If it wasn’t threaded properly though i wouldn’t have the first couple of frames exposed, instead In theory if that happened i should have had none exposed , or at least the last frames.
Its definitely the first frames because i finished the roll In a few hours, I remember the order the pictures were taken.
Also when i wind the film for the first frames, I’m looking at the film winding lever to see if it’s advancing, that’s one way to know if the film is advancing.
Unless I’m wrong?

 

[Plain Nev]

If it wasn’t threaded properly though i wouldn’t have the first couple of frames exposed, instead In theory if that happened i should have had none exposed , or at least the last frames.
Its definitely the first frames because i finished the roll In a few hours, I remember the order the pictures were taken.
Also when i wind the film for the first frames, I’m looking at the film winding lever to see if it’s advancing, that’s one way to know if the film is advancing.
Unless I’m wrong?

I'm not sure, to be honest. My feeling is that the film might have been slack and once that was taken up the resistance pulled it off the spool. But really I'm just speculating. I'd definitely run a blank film through it to make sure. I might add that I don't think the needles are a particularly good way of doing it. From my experience, at least.

 

[Mostly Vintage Cameras]

It looks like there is something recorded between some of the frames that did come out. My guess would be a slipping wind on mech I.e. a faulty camera.
If you have a sacrificial roll of film (and we all should have) you can load it and track it's winding a full frame every time by tripping the shutter and winding on. If you mark the left hand edge of the frame on the film then you can see the mark move to the right of the film gate.
Or just pop into a decent camera shop and see if they can find fault with it.

 

[Clive K]

Load a cheap film and with the camera back open wind and shoot the whole film. That way you can see whether the film is advancing properly.

 

[ChrisR]

I think this is a dead end for trying to figure out what happened. The question now is , do i use the camera again or test it somehow? Thx very much everyone the help is much appreciated

You should definitely try again, run another roll tough, taking careful note of each frame. The MX is an excellent camera and your seems to be in excellent condition.

If you identify a fault and can afford it, please get it serviced. Every high quality film camera that gets faulty and then returns to use is a real win, IMHO.

 

[shapeshifter]

I think this is a dead end for trying to figure out what happened. The question now is , do i use the camera again or test it somehow? Thx very much everyone the help is much appreciated

No. you have not put a film in the camera and left the back open and wound it on to see what happens.

 

[Marino]

Thx again guys. I’ll put some film in with the back open and see if it winds ok.
Frustrating more so because of the time I’ve waisted but hey it’s done now…

 

[Craikeybaby]

I had a similar issue recently on my Pentax ME - except that not of the film was exposed. It was my first film through a camera that I was probably given 20 years ago, so have written it off. But may have another go, being extra careful to check the points mentioned on this post when loading the film.

 

[zx9]

Thx again guys. I’ll put some film in with the back open and see if it winds ok.
Frustrating more so because of the time I’ve waisted but hey it’s done now…

You have a metre or so of scrap film to play with assuming that you have not thrown it away.
The film does not need to be in a cassette but it would help if it was. In the shop when we had similar customer complaints we would run a film through the the camera shutter set to B , holding the shutter open we would use a marker pen to outline each frame as it passed the open shutter giving an instant check for winding on and frame spacing.

Sometime a little used camera would have the rewind button appear to pop out as normal but the mechanism in side the camera was a little sticky so the rewind clutch was not actually re engaging even though the button had popped out again. Usually repeated operation would free it the mechanism again but thais was thirty years or more ago and the cameras had not seen decades of possible non use.

I hope you get to the bottom of it, the MX was a rather nice camera.

 

[Marino]

You have a metre or so of scrap film to play with assuming that you have not thrown it away.
The film does not need to be in a cassette but it would help if it was. In the shop when we had similar customer complaints we would run a film through the the camera shutter set to B , holding the shutter open we would use a marker pen to outline each frame as it passed the open shutter giving an instant check for winding on and frame spacing.

Sometime a little used camera would have the rewind button appear to pop out as normal but the mechanism in side the camera was a little sticky so the rewind clutch was not actually re engaging even though the button had popped out again. Usually repeated operation would free it the mechanism again but thais was thirty years or more ago and the cameras had not seen decades of possible non use.

I hope you get to the bottom of it, the MX was a rather nice camera.

Yes, I’ll use that film and sellotape it on one of my used film canisters. Thx.
Yes the mx is a great little camera. The best/biggest viewfinder I’ve ever used on an SLR. It’s a real joy composing with the camera.

 

[Plain Nev]

I don't suppose I need to tell you this, but when I loaded film on my MX I always thread the film between the needles in the same direction I would if the film were lying on top of the spool, rather than pointing it downwards. That way you get an instant hook in the film when you operate the crank.

 

[Marino]

I don't suppose I need to tell you this, but when I loaded film on my MX I always thread the film between the needles in the same direction I would if the film were lying on top of the spool, rather than pointing it downwards. That way you get an instant hook in the film when you operate the crank.

I’ll try that, i was actually doing it by pushing the film kind of inside and down as you described. And of course the film would not hook in, it takes a few times. Thanks for the tip