'grey' imports

Iris

Iris

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Can you explain what this is to me? I'm assuming it's buying something from abroad at their prices cheaper than it can be purchased in the UK, but there must be more to it than that.... And how do you protect yourself from buying one, is there any need?

It may sound like a daft question but I try to buy my things through proper channels (been ripped off on a fake Uggs site once, thankfully only £80 lost) although I did recently buy a lens through onestopdigital ( read good reviews, missed the HK bit)

Thanks
 
A grey import is one that has been purchased outwith the official import channel, so in the case of a Canon lens it would be one that that had been imported to the UK by a seller who was not an official Canon retailer.

If it is an issue for you, and for many people it isn't as there are generally savings to be made on the price, then the safest way to avoid buying a grey import is to buy from an official stockist.
 
Not for me, it was raised in another conversation where someone I know is blaming slow repairs on the fact that their camera was bought through these channels - I couldn't see how that would make a difference in that case but someone else suggested it may.

I'm all for saving a few quid, the classifieds/MPB/LCE are my new favourite stores :D
 
I'm pretty sure that Nikon/Canon service won't touch grey imports.

They can find out if it's a bone fide uk model from the serial number, and if it's not, they are under no obligation to repair it under warranty. (The warranty only applies in the country of distribution)

Third party service places probably won't have an issue.
 
hoolio said:
Thats quite a statement. Do you mean that to apply to in warranty repairs or out of warranty repairs as well?
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I would assume in-warranty repairs but I can't see a business turning away a genuine chargeable repair on the genuine article, it wouldn't make good business sense (although that is an assumption, do correct me of I'm wrong)

Thanks everyone, that clears things up loads :)
 
It may be pedantic nit picking but there is only one thing you can assume from that sentence. ;)
 
Interestingly I buy my stuff from Kerso now. Never had an issue with warranty from Canon even when I did have an item fail close to the 12 month warranty end.

My two bodies I bought from Jessops on the other hand I've had big issues with.

My 40D shutter failed within warranty but had to go through Jessops to their repair centre who were awful. 8 weeks of me chasing every two days to be told it had been shipped back to me, was about to be shipped back to me, they were awaiting spares etc. In the end I took it further and they admitted they'd screwed the camera up in trying to fix it. I ended up with jessops vouchers to the cost of what they thought it was worth, which meant I had to add £120 to buy a 50D (no 40D's available in Jessops).

My 50D was a non sealed box, so I asked for a sealed box. Out comes a sealed box, get it home and the camera has a Jessops 4Gb card in it with shots of the high street, the store and staff. When I called to complain and organise collection of another "oh no sir that was our last". When I pointed out it was used, yet they'd sealed it "Oh no sir it would have been brand new" but they were embarrassed when I mentioned the card. Yup they'd taken the demo camera, boxed it, then actually sealed it with a circular sticky when I said I wanted a new one.

I returned it, costing me more in fuel/parking and it then took another 5 days to get a replacement in!

I won't even go into the ex demo, damaged tripod head they tried to sell me as new - but I've posted about that on here before.

So, nope. As far as I'm concerned they can go bust. Kerso for me everytime now.
 
I remember your story Byker, shocking service from a well known high street store - I've actually bought from Kerso too and am a happy customer (hadn't even occurred to me that it would be grey but, like I said earlier, it doesn't really bother me)
 
I had a servicing issue with a Nikon camera bought overseas, took the camera to an official UK dealer and he asked if I had the original box, I didn't. Turns out the reason he asked was that they had grey imports in for servicing, if it was a grey import the dealer didn't get paid. I questioned why they didn't check the serial number, I was informed that Nikon products were moved from country to country depending on demand. When they were sold country identification was by the box, different countries boxed the cameras with an identifiable box for that particular country. That was 25 years ago, perhaps this is not the case today?
 
I brought up the question with a Canon rep at a show recently and he advised me to register with the Canon Professional Service website and list all my serial numbers that I could with them. He said, strictly speaking an imported item has to be returned to the country of origin, but if you are a member of CPS they will fix them anyway. I've since registered and had emails confirming the internatioal warranty will be honoured. Good service Canon.
 
Iris said:
I remember your story Byker, shocking service from a well known high street store - I've actually bought from Kerso too and am a happy customer (hadn't even occurred to me that it would be grey but, like I said earlier, it doesn't really bother me)
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I think kerso buys from the USA but he gives a uk vat receipt. Never had an issue with canon so far.
 
modchild said:
I brought up the question with a Canon rep at a show recently and he advised me to register with the Canon Professional Service website and list all my serial numbers that I could with them. He said, strictly speaking an imported item has to be returned to the country of origin, but if you are a member of CPS they will fix them anyway. I've since registered and had emails confirming the internatioal warranty will be honoured. Good service Canon.
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Ah, maybe that's it. I registered everything I have with cps just as belt and braces for registering my serial numbers everywhere. As it is I have enough for membership. I've certainly benefited from fast repairs quoting my membership number.
 
I purchased a sencond hand 7d body and I could not register it with Canon CPS when I questioned this with the rep I was informed that it 'could possibly be due to the body being a grey import in which case it would not be supported by CPS.'
 
I bought my D7k from HDEW for a good price. I am currently looking to buy a particular Tokina lens that doesn't come up very often on here or at MPB etc.

I asked HDEW for their price as they don't have them on their site and they again quoted a good figure. By pure coincidence a used one appeared for sale on here the same day....and the price asked was the same HDEW are asking for a new one! I know which one I'll be buying.

I'm reasonably certain I've heard the word 'globalisation' somewhere in recent years, perhaps someone should mention it to Canon and Nikon. Maybe when they supply to the local high street stores at a price that can compete with HK we will see these shops flourish.
 
I'm reasonably certain I've heard the word 'globalisation' somewhere in recent years, perhaps someone should mention it to Canon and Nikon. Maybe when they supply to the local high street stores at a price that can compete with HK we will see these shops flourish.
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This has very little to do with the Camera manufacturers. It comes down to transportation, staff income, import duty and VAT. when all of these are equal accross boarders then perhaps we shall all enjoy equal pricing.
 
bulldog5988 said:
This has very little to do with the Camera manufacturers. It comes down to transportation, staff income, import duty and VAT. when all of these are equal accross boarders then perhaps we shall all enjoy equal pricing.
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Hmmm.... So how do HDEW, a company based in the UK and therefore have the same costs (minus the shop network), manage to get the same products to me considerably cheaper than say Jessops?

Why do Canon and Nikon not provide warranties for the products? What difference does it make to them where the item comes from when they have all been manufactured at the same factory at the same cost to them?

I would love to be able to support my high street store, but won't be while I can make a saving of 25% by buying 'grey'.
 
Wookee said:
Why do Canon and Nikon not provide warranties for the products? What difference does it make to them where the item comes from when they have all been manufactured at the same factory at the same cost to them?
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the HDEW (or wherever) supplied camera won't have been sourced from the official importer, they won't have made any profit on it, so why should they be liable for repairing it if it goes wrong?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
the HDEW (or wherever) supplied camera won't have been sourced from the official importer, they won't have made any profit on it, so why should they be liable for repairing it if it goes wrong?
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At some point the company has bought the camera off of Nikon before supplying it to me, therefore Nikon have made their profit on the sale, albeit their chosen importers haven't had their cut of the cake. So why won't Nikon repair it?

Don't get me wrong, I know this is unlikely to happen and I accept the conditions of sale as they are. I'm just trying to point out that Nikon and Canon might want to take more notice of the fact that it is a global market and we don't have to pay their inflated UK prices.

If more people bought grey then they would have to pay attention and do something about it which can only be good for all camera consumers.
 
But would Nikon refuse to repair it Wookee? Or would they just not repair it for free under normal warranty situations?
 
Grey imports? ......... Squirrels!
 
Wookee said:
At some point the company has bought the camera off of Nikon before supplying it to me, therefore Nikon have made their profit on the sale, albeit their chosen importers haven't had their cut of the cake. So why won't Nikon repair it?

Don't get me wrong, I know this is unlikely to happen and I accept the conditions of sale as they are. I'm just trying to point out that Nikon and Canon might want to take more notice of the fact that it is a global market and we don't have to pay their inflated UK prices.

If more people bought grey then they would have to pay attention and do something about it which can only be good for all camera consumers.
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Nikon will repair it, as long as you are the one who bought it (in person) from one of their authorised dealers - all you need do is return it to the Nikon agents in the country where it was originally supplied, which in the case of HDEW is Hong Kong.....
 
Wookee said:
Hmmm.... So how do HDEW, a company based in the UK and therefore have the same costs (minus the shop network), manage to get the same products to me considerably cheaper than say Jessops?

Why do Canon and Nikon not provide warranties for the products? What difference does it make to them where the item comes from when they have all been manufactured at the same factory at the same cost to them?

I would love to be able to support my high street store, but won't be while I can make a saving of 25% by buying 'grey'.
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You answered your own question. A UK shop network is expensive to run.

And you need to understand who provides the warranty. A Canon/Nikon camera bought in the UK will be warrantied by Canon/Nikon UK distribution company. One bought in Hong Kong will be warrantied by the Asian Canon/Nikon distribution company. If you buy a grey import for use in the UK, then Canon/Nikon UK have had no part in the transaction. You do not have a contract with the manufacturing subsidary that made the camera.
 
What most people don't seem to understand is that any warranty claim (Under the Sale of Goods act 1979) is the responsibility of the seller, NOT the manufacturer.
 
Alastair said:
You answered your own question. A UK shop network is expensive to run.

And you need to understand who provides the warranty. A Canon/Nikon camera bought in the UK will be warrantied by Canon/Nikon UK distribution company. One bought in Hong Kong will be warrantied by the Asian Canon/Nikon distribution company. If you buy a grey import for use in the UK, then Canon/Nikon UK have had no part in the transaction. You do not have a contract with the manufacturing subsidary that made the camera.
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I've never seen an Amazon shop on the high street, yet they can't (or won't) compete with grey importer's prices:shrug:

It seems to me that someone is making a fair bit out of us in the UK because we can afford it, and because they try to scare potential grey purchasers with dire warnings about warranty repairs. In the case of Hdew, they will get my camera repaired in this country by a reputable company (and on some products they offer a 3yr extended guarantee, for free!).

I was just having a look at Warehouse Express smallprint due to this thread and noticed that the service they offer is remarkably similar to Hdew, except that they have their own repair place:thinking: (it doesn't say how much Canon/Nikon UK have to do with repairs) Yet they again don't match on price. Maybe the cost of their one showroom is bumping things up?

I am looking to purchase a Tokina lens, currently advertised for £544 with Wex and Jessops and recently advertised here for £450 secondhand (with no warranty obviously). Hdew have quoted me £450 brand new with a warranty, sent to me, from within the UK, to arrive in 3-4 days and it gets repaired in the UK if it breaks.

For me 'grey' from a company in the UK works, for others it may not, but I do struggle to see why not. Perhaps if more people bought this way then those 'official' stockists might revise their prices in our favour.
 
I think with some it may be a case of once bitten, twice shy. The friend who prompted me to ask the question probably won't buy grey again because the aftercare & difficulty in getting a warranty repair hasn't proved to outweigh the hassle now
 
I hope he or she gets their product from a reputable retailer and enjoys their purchase:)
 
I'm pretty certain that HDew are not holding stock in the UK, their own website refers to tham only acting as an import agent on behalf of you the importer and the delivery times are comparable to those from Hong Kong based sellers. Makes me wonder if they include a VAT receipt for the full value or only for the delivery cost. I'm wondering that because the difference between £450 and £544 is almost exactly the VAT due on £450. I'll be interested to know what your receipt says when it arrives.
 
Wookee said:
I hope he or she gets their product from a reputable retailer and enjoys their purchase:)
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Tbh, I don't think he purchased from an irreputable dealer as such, just a HK based one much like hdew & onestopdigital.
 
Thought I would add a bit more fuel to the fire over Grey Imports.
Being a great fan of Greys of Westminster I thought I would check out both sites.
First went to HDEW and checked out the following Nikon lens
AF-S 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR DX IF-ED They quote £225.00.
I then went to Grays of Westminster site the same lens was advertised as £230.00. £5 difference.
So I ask is HDEW profiteering?
The Greys of Westminster was for a new lens not 2nd hand.
Now please don’t misunderstand me, I am a great believer of getting value for money. I also believe that we should try as much as possible to retain our own retail chain on the high street.
I think at the end of the day Nikon and Canon are only trying to protect (In this case) the UK importer who have invested a great deal of money into the distribution chain within the UK.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Nikon will repair it, as long as you are the one who bought it (in person) from one of their authorised dealers - all you need do is return it to the Nikon agents in the country where it was originally supplied, which in the case of HDEW is Hong Kong.....
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Just to clear things up in my head.
Do you mean they wont repair it at all, or they will repair it, just at cost?

I had this with a Sigma lens, they recalibrated the lens but wouldnt do it under guarentee as I couldnt supply a UK Duty invoice. I still saved a lot of money buying "grey" as the price the lens sells for now second hand is the same price as what I paid for it new
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Just to clear things up in my head.
Do you mean they wont repair it at all, or they will repair it, just at cost?

I had this with a Sigma lens, they recalibrated the lens but wouldnt do it under guarentee as I couldnt supply a UK Duty invoice. I still saved a lot of money buying "grey" as the price the lens sells for now second hand is the same price as what I paid for it new
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Sorry, I realise my answer was a bit vague,what I meant was they won't repair it under warranty. I'd imagine if you're waving pound notes at them any 'issues' they may have had would be quietly forgotten.....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Sorry, I realise my answer was a bit vague,what I meant was they won't repair it under warranty. I'd imagine if you're waving pound notes at them any 'issues' they may have had would be quietly forgotten.....
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Haha, thought that might have been the case. I suppose depending on the repair, it would probably be cheaper to pay then send it to HK, or if its an expensive job, sending to HK would be cheaper than paying :lol:
 
bulldog5988 said:
Thought I would add a bit more fuel to the fire over Grey Imports.
Being a great fan of Greys of Westminster I thought I would check out both sites.
First went to HDEW and checked out the following Nikon lens
AF-S 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR DX IF-ED They quote £225.00.
I then went to Grays of Westminster site the same lens was advertised as £230.00. £5 difference.
So I ask is HDEW profiteering?
The Greys of Westminster was for a new lens not 2nd hand.
Now please don’t misunderstand me, I am a great believer of getting value for money. I also believe that we should try as much as possible to retain our own retail chain on the high street.
I think at the end of the day Nikon and Canon are only trying to protect (In this case) the UK importer who have invested a great deal of money into the distribution chain within the UK.
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I've just had a look at the Hdew site and this lens is £185:shrug:
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Haha, thought that might have been the case. I suppose depending on the repair, it would probably be cheaper to pay then send it to HK, or if its an expensive job, sending to HK would be cheaper than paying :lol:
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The trouble with having to return it to HK, beside shipping that would probably cost you more than you think, is the issue of VAT and duty. If you can't prove it has been paid at the time of original import (and I'd suspect a lot of the time it hasn't) then you run the very real risk of having to pay it when the camera returns from repair.....
 
You have to be careful when buying from abroad about Import Duty too. Some sellers may offer to pay the Import Tax, though it will some times be that they will reimburse you should you get caught. Most don't.

I bought a Nikon D200 from Digital Rev, before I knew about the Warranty situation, but part of the sale was that they would pay the Tax. I thought I hadn't been charged the Tax, but got a letter a week or two later. I had to pay it, copy the receipt, and send it to Digital Rev. They paid me the money back quite quickly.

I made a big saving on the D200 though, if the saving wasn't that much I wouldn't have gone that route, and if I knew the Warranty situation I probably wouldn't have bought from abroad. I returned a camera from Purely Gadgets unopened because I only realised when it was on the way to me that it was coming from France/Mainland Europe, and when I phoned Nikon they said that the camera would have a Warranty with Nikon from whatever country it came from.

The savings made from buying abroad are not as big as they used to be in most cases because of the £ versus other currencies is not as good as it used to be. Some people are surprised when some Ebay prices are very close, if not the same as buying here. :eek: Ebay isn't always cheaper. ;)
 
I think its a balancing act really. Its always worth looking at Digital Rev and Onestop Digital. If you save £100 on a lens, say for example a Canon L series to guarentee quality, then thats not too bad.
As I have said before about going "grey", make sure you have the extra 20% put by, just in case. Onestop will refund you, and as Redhed said, Digital Rev also will. For the sake of saving £20, its a risk I'm not willing to take, but I always check "grey" just to see, and some times the savings are amazing!
 
I think this is a perfect example of a decent saving by buying grey:

Canon 24-105 F4L:
WEX - £899
Digital Rev - £680 (Saving £219)
Onestop Digital - £699.99 (Saving £199.01)

And an instance of where its not worth it:
Canon 24-70 F2.8L
WEX - £979
Digital Rev - £979.99 (Paying £.99 more)
Onestop Digital - £939.99 (Saving £39.01)

The latter shows that Digital Rev is actually more expensive than WEX, ok its only 99p but then there is possible postage to consider too.
Shipping from Onestop Digital is FREE, however I believe Digital Rev charge postage.
 
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