Grey Imports...How to spot them?

[HoppyUK]

Not really Brexit related... the €2bn goes back to a report examining the whole of the EU and customs / duty collection... https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/SR17_19/SR_CUSTOMS_EN.pdf

The auditing ran from 2007 to 2017.

It's come from the European Commission and relates to a very large sum of tax allegedly owed, which HMRC has already rejected. If you don't think that's Brexit related and that £2.4bn will not be included in the highest level Brexit arguments, I beg to differ.

Edit: just seen your edit - so they've waited 11 years to bring this up now...

 

[Eloise]

....But although this goes back awhile, isn't it now being brought up by the EU (according to the BBC News link above) as part of the Brexit negotiations?

No, it’s being brought up now as part of continuing business of the EU.

 

[Eloise]

Edit: just seen your edit - so they've waited 11 years to bring this up now...

No, not 11 years but it’s 11 years of evidence and information (well 10 years) they have been auditing.

It’s jus part of the continuing business of the EU. As I read the report there is tightening of rules all across the EU it’s not U.K. being singled out (just the U.K. have a big issue according to the report).

 

[RedRobin]

No, it’s being brought up now as part of continuing business of the EU.

....The coincidence of its timing with all the current manoeuvring between the EU and UK over Brexit is surely not going to convince ordinary people in the UK that it's not the EU playing a nasty card in the game.

And it's probable that the 'Remainers' will be loudly exploiting the situation by claiming that there wouldn't be such a huge financial claim if the Brexit vote hadn't happened. Anyway, sorry that's a bit off the grey import topic.

 

[Dave *]

....But although this goes back awhile, isn't it now being brought up by the EU (according to the BBC News link above) as part of the Brexit negotiations?

There is no reference to Brexit anywhere in the BBC article, I think you've imagined that...

The European Commission has written to the UK government saying the UK owes €2.7bn (£2.4bn) in customs duties on shoes and textiles imported from China.

The UK is accused of doing too little to prevent fraud after it was warned about the problem by the EU's watchdog Olaf in 2017.

It begins a legal process which could end at the European Court of Justice.

HM Revenue and Customs said it did not recognise the commission's estimate of what it owed.

The Olaf investigation said the UK was a "significant hub" for so-called undervaluation fraud - where importers can profit from evading customs duties and related taxes.

The investigation found organised crime groups had been using fake invoices to undervalue goods being imported from China - many of which were destined for the black market in other parts of the EU, investigators claimed.

Olaf have said they had warned HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) a number of times.

But a government spokesman said: "We do not recognise the European Commission's estimate of alleged duty loss.

"We take customs fraud very seriously, and we continue to evolve our response as new threats emerge.

"We will carefully examine the formal notice from the commission and respond in due course.

"The UK intends to continue to work closely with Olaf and the commission on customs fraud.

"HMRC has a very strong track record for tackling evasion and rule-breaking of all kinds, securing a record £28.9bn last year that would otherwise have gone unpaid."

HMRC said the commission's methodology overestimated UK import values and was not suitable to produce an estimate of alleged customs duty undervaluation.

It said the estimate was based on EU average prices and failed to take into account the "substantial growth in the low-value end of the UK clothing market".

 

[RedRobin]

There is no reference to Brexit anywhere in the BBC article, I think you've imagined that...

....Indeed there isn't but the aspect of Brexit was legitimately mentioned by Richard @HoppyUK in his response to the BBC article was it not?

 

[Dave *]

....Indeed there isn't but the aspect of Brexit was legitimately mentioned by Richard @HoppyUK in his response to the BBC article was it not?

That point (which was just an opinion, as opposed to referring to the article) was addressed by @Phil V in post 276.

 

[Welshy74]

Serial numbers, easy check. Also, when I've traded my cameras in the shop's have usually asked where they came from.

What can you do with the serial numbers to check?

 

[dave_bass5]

Speak to Canon. The last time i checked thier website would let you put anything you like in to the serial number box to register a product, so IME that wont be any help.

 

[the black fox]

wheres Sean Connery and the untouchables when you need them , shades of total b******t ,I see business people on here worried about how they are going to operate after Brexit ,thats a legit frame of mind ...but for the rest of us I'm quite sure NONE of us give a really give a toss where the items come from its just how much we pay for it and can we get it repaired if it goes tits up . thats it final end of story .

 

[RascallyBear]

I assume that you are looking at used cameras, in which case why does it matter?
Any warranty will be with the seller and there is nothing else that will affect your use of the camera or its maintenance, servicing or repair.

Speaking with Olympus, yesterday, I was surprised to be told that any remaining warranty transfers with the lens. So if it was registered with three years' warranty, then an 'authorized' second-hand lens could have residual manufacturer's warranty, whereas a 'grey imported' lens would only have whatever warranty the retailer offers, plus your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act, 2015.

When I asked Olympus what identifying marks would be on an Olympus 'authorized' lens or its packaging, they had no answer. They asked me for the original Bill of Sale, so they could verify whether the retailer is on their list of authorized sellers.

So, it is appropriate to ask this question, as Olympus do not (currently) offer a global warranty service.

From my point of view, I buy grey imports if the price is right. A £1,134 'authorized' camera body vs £430 for the same item as a 'grey import'. Gives me a lot of cash to cover any future repair costs, buy insurance, or simply buy another camera if anything goes wrong.

In any case, many grey importers also have a reputation to maintain. You'll often get a 2, or even 3, year warranty from the importer. Not to mention, if you buy by credit card in the UK, you're covered by the Consumer Rights Act, 2015.

Olympus also tell me, you can pay an up front surcharge for them to repair your grey import, and the figure quoted was far less than the price difference between grey and authorized cameras or lenses.

If "The Customer is King", then Olympus need to get their act together, join the rest of us in the Global Marketplace, and start offering global warranties, as others do. After all, grey import sales must constitute the vast majority of Olympus Worldwide corporate sales revenue.

Rascal

 

[Box Brownie]

@RascallyBear

Firstly hi & welcome to TP

Where you say "After all, grey import sales must constitute the vast majority of Olympus Worldwide corporate sales revenue.".

I think thay is very UK centric thought, Olympus because they in common with every other manufacturer sell through a retailer/distribution network......the fact that you and others do personal import purchases from such retailers is not relevant. All Olympus know is that retailers in X market did Y volume & value of sales......why should they care where the delivery location was??? In sales terms for the manufacturer there is no such thing as grey market.

Buy yes when it comes to warranty cover and terms that likely needs some refining & a more global approach. AFAIK in the case of Canon, body warranty is locked to country of original end user purchase but lens wherever bought are covered in whichever country the claim is made! Why the difference I have yet to learn of an explanation???

 

[Jc72]

Is there anyway to tell if a cameras/lens is a grey import?
Any CE logos or other distinctive things to look for...apart from the obvious purchase ticket

I'm on the market for a used camera and I have enquired to a few dealers and they can't confirm if the camera I'm looking at is grey import or not.
The one I'm looking at it's a very expensive bit of kit so I'm not too confident in spending the money without knowing where it's coming from.

With MPB they display the serial number, at least on the Canon cameras, and then you can check that on the Canon website. Some of their items come up as not intended for uk/eu market, while others do.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

With MPB they display the serial number, at least on the Canon cameras, and then you can check that on the Canon website. Some of their items come up as not intended for uk/eu market, while others do.

I can not think of a good reason to care whether a camera is not a UK marketed one or not. If they are second hand they are out of first user guarantee anyway..
And if bought new they are usually covered by an equally good warranty. Quality wise they are identical..

 

[realspeed]

I have never had any issues with grey imports, even down to getting one repaired by an independant company. Not only that but the insurance paid for it.

 

[Jc72]

I can not think of a good reason to care whether a camera is not a UK marketed one or not. If they are second hand they are out of first user guarantee anyway..
And if bought new they are usually covered by an equally good warranty. Quality wise they are identical..

I agree, was merely responding to the question regarding whether this can be checked or not. It has never bothered me in purchasing before.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Most makers are not responsible for providing retail guarantees, these are a provision of either the distributer or in some cases retailer.
International warranties by the manufacturer are the exception rather than the rule.
As a result most guarantee repair costs come out of the distributers budget not the manufacturers, as such they will only do free warranty repairs on items that they have distributed.

I recently bought a new Samsung washing machine. From Currys it carried their one year guarantee. However on registering it with Samsung this was extended to five years.
Separately, the brush less digital electric motor is guaranteed for 25 years. However it is not clear if that 25 years extends to the electronics that makes the motor work. And controls it's power, direction and rotation speed. As the motor itself is inoperable without it.
The motor is fascinating in that it is virtually silent and hardly registers on my smart meter when working. Compared to my precious Samsung machine, it used remarkably little power or water, and is virtually silent. It can also be controlled remotely by smart phone. The most sound you hear is from the slapping of the falling clothing as they rotate over top dead centre.

 

[Phil V]

You can tell from the serial number if it's a Canon body but not with the lenses.

Bob

By the same token, unlike cameras, the warranty on a lens is worldwide, so there’d be no issue.

 

[woof woof]

By the same token, unlike cameras, the warranty on a lens is worldwide, so there’d be no issue.

I didn't know that. Thank you for pointing that out.

I have bought grey imports but only when the kit was difficult to get hold of in the UK.

 

[Phil V]

I didn't know that. Thank you for pointing that out.

I have bought grey imports but only when the kit was difficult to get hold of in the UK.

Certainly w Canon the paperwork in the lens box is quite clear

 

[snerkler]

By the same token, unlike cameras, the warranty on a lens is worldwide, so there’d be no issue.

I think that depends on manufacturer. I know Tamrons wasn’t worldwide, whether it is now or not I don’t know. I don’t think Sony is either, unless that’s just for cash back offers However, for a lens to be covered under warranty it has to be bought from one of their official retailers, and obviously grey market retailers aren’t. Sony don’t even accept Amazon as an official retailer.

 

[Craikeybaby]

With MPB they display the serial number, at least on the Canon cameras, and then you can check that on the Canon website. Some of their items come up as not intended for uk/eu market, while others do.

In the past MPB have declined to buy a lens from me as it was grey market, so they should be checking themselves.