Golf Course in trouble for being Men only!

cambsno

cambsno

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36331270

Is it right or wrong to discriminate by sex? By that I mean 'men only' or 'women only'.

In the news today we had this story, Nicola Sturgeon said that they are a members club so its up to them but in this day and age its wrong. I kind of agree but a quick google search brings up more than 1 ladies golf club! Double standards?? Why is it ok for them to me a ladies course but not this one to be men only? Why cant all of us just join any club?
 
I would agree, it should be open to all. I suspect they will get around it by having a revote, saying they will allow ladies in, but making membership by invitation only or something and never inviting any women! That said 64% at least said it should be allowed so they are nearly there.

There may be reasons to have men or women only clubs in general but golf certainly is not one of them!
 
I'd rather go to a Gents only karzi than use a unisex one but wouldn't play at a men only golf club.
 
I've no problem with men only clubs.
Plenty if ladies only things too... Like Race for Life.
It's cost them the Open though, but they must have been aware of that possibility.
 
I want to know the position of the Women's Institute on this, as another club that only allows one sex to join as full members.
 
The club has chosen to keep it's rules, the members knew full well that by doing so it would no longer qualify to host an international championship event.

This specific story isn't about the rights and wrongs of the club in itself, it's whether an international sporting body representing players of both sexes should reward a minor local club that chooses to discriminate based on gender with a prestigious international event.

A non-story in this millennium I would have hoped.
 
Its very sad I work in a sector full of buffoons like the members of these clubs, to much money, old ex army ranks major this and that.
let them fester in there s***ty clubhouse with their victorian values.
 
Frankly I don't give a damn. The continued fight for gender equality goes on and a private members club which chooses to retain it's "rules" is a side issuer in the bigger picture and agenda. Gender inequality is far more mainstream than a Golf club.

Losing an open championship would not bug me one bit. I go to my golf club expecting to be able to use it.... A bunch of top level players, TV crews, fans/spectators, no parking space, no chance to get a quick 9 in.... no they can all go forth and procreate....... bah humbug

I like watching women out on the course.... it's all in the wiggle and wriggle :-)
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Frankly I don't give a damn. The continued fight for gender equality goes on and a private members club which chooses to retain it's "rules" is a side issuer in the bigger picture and agenda. Gender inequality is far more mainstream than a Golf club.

Losing an open championship would not bug me one bit. I go to my golf club expecting to be able to use it.... A bunch of top level players, TV crews, fans/spectators, no parking space, no chance to get a quick 9 in.... no they can all go forth and procreate....... bah humbug

I like watching women out on the course.... it's all in the wiggle and wriggle :)
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Surely gender equality goes both ways, there are ladies golf clubs and many other clubs or groups for women only?
 
cambsno said:
Surely gender equality goes both ways, there are ladies golf clubs and many other clubs or groups for women only?
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That goes without saying. For me gender equality, as I state, is a huge issue and goes way beyond the trivia of 'clubs' or 'groups'.

If you want the 5 minute argument or the full half hour then we can move the debate to the full gamut of voting rights, rape gangs, equal opportunities etc. At that point we will be looking at global impact in a world of 7.3 Billion people and not the pimple of 60 million of our own country. Perhaps you could get the wife to make the sandwiches? [emoji6]
 
Mr Bump said:
Its very sad I work in a sector full of buffoons like the members of these clubs, to much money, old ex army ranks major this and that.
let them fester in there s***ty clubhouse with their victorian values.
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I think you know little of the membership spectrum of these clubs.
So what if they wish to remain men only.
Who does it actually harm?
It's a sad state of affairs it a golf club is all the feminazis have to worry about.
 
I agree with Ruth. Who cares, it's their club and they decide who can join. It is good however that the R & A have withdrawn the Open Championship from them for making this decision. If they were not one of the courses that held the Open this wouldn't be making any waves.
 
Their club, their decision; I really don't have a problem with it. The Race For Life really annoys me, however, and I refuse to enter it until they allow men to run. Men suffer from cancer just as much as women. I have been lucky in that I have never been touched by cancer. My husband, however, lost his father to it and yet isn't allowed to run.
 
MadWoman said:
Their club, their decision; I really don't have a problem with it. The Race For Life really annoys me, however, and I refuse to enter it until they allow men to run. Men suffer from cancer just as much as women. I have been lucky in that I have never been touched by cancer. My husband, however, lost his father to it and yet isn't allowed to run.
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True, but he can participate in Movember, which ladies cannot (well, most anyway!).
Swings and roundabouts.
 
viv1969 said:
True, but he can participate in Movember, which ladies cannot (well, most anyway!).
Swings and roundabouts.
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But they could do Bushtober!!

There will be things that some can't do for obvious reasons like movember but the race for life really annoys me too.
 
This is quite an interesting take on the issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/19/peter-alliss-women-play-muirfield-marry-member

Alliss said: “It’s a very emotive subject. I don’t think all the true facts have come out. I was at the Open Championship two or three years ago and I used to go in for a coffee every morning. There’s a very nice drawing room in the clubhouse at Muirfield and it was full of ladies who were all chatting - ‘Hello, Peter how are you doing?’ - and me in my usual, jocular, quiet way suggested, ‘What great times are coming, you’ll be able to join the club’.“And there was a look of horror on the faces of the ladies, ladies whose husbands were members, and I was met with ‘Good Lord, no we don’t want to be members. If we joined, our husbands would have to pay thousands of pounds for our entry fee and our subscriptions. We can come and play and do pretty much what we wish for nothing’.”

Alliss suggested a single woman might have to wait eight to 10 years in a queue for membership, were they allowed to join, and face paying thousands of pounds for “maybe 20 games of golf a year”.

Therefore, it is not quite the "men only" club that the media would like us believe, as the wives and girlfriends of members can already play the course for free.
 
andy700 said:
Therefore, it is not quite the "men only" club that the media would like us believe, as the wives and girlfriends of members can already play the course for free.
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So you honestly don't see the problem with that? Women can't be members in their own right, they can only play if they're married or otherwise associated with a man. And you believe this is acceptable for an Open venue?

What's the difference between a man and a woman possibly having to "wait eight to 10 years in a queue for membership, were they allowed to join, and face paying thousands of pounds for 'maybe 20 games of golf a year'"? The basis for your argument that "it is not quite the "men only" club that the media would like us believe" is complete and utter b******t. And misses the point that the story isn't about the club's policy in isolation, the story is that the R&A have withdrawn the club's status as a potential Open venue as a consequence of the club retaining a policy at odds with the (only recently changed) policy of the R&A. Not to mention the CSR pressures that sponsors are starting to come under and will bring to bear on the R&A.
 
Good lord, where's the drama anyway?
Muirfield hold the Open once every, what, 7 years? (on average). Last time was 3 years ago.
They needed a 2/3 majority vote to admit women members, and they fell short by just 14 votes.
There'll be another vote along before too long, women will (in all likeleyhood) be admitted (shame, btw) and they'll once again qualify for consideration to host the Open.
It's all a bit hand-flappy-storm-in-a-tin-cup in the great scheme of things.
 
Alastair said:
So you honestly don't see the problem with that? Women can't be members in their own right, they can only play if they're married or otherwise associated with a man. And you believe this is acceptable for an Open venue?

What's the difference between a man and a woman possibly having to "wait eight to 10 years in a queue for membership, were they allowed to join, and face paying thousands of pounds for 'maybe 20 games of golf a year'"? The basis for your argument that "it is not quite the "men only" club that the media would like us believe" is complete and utter b******t. And misses the point that the story isn't about the club's policy in isolation, the story is that the R&A have withdrawn the club's status as a potential Open venue as a consequence of the club retaining a policy at odds with the (only recently changed) policy of the R&A. Not to mention the CSR pressures that sponsors are starting to come under and will bring to bear on the R&A.
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I cannot be a member of the Black Policemans Association or the Women's Institute

http://www.nbpa.co.uk/

https://www.thewi.org.uk/

Or a ladies only gym

http://www.ladies-of-leisure.net/

As others have said, I don't agree with their attitude, and the course will not be missed as an Open venue - Carnoustie, Troon and St Andrews are all better IMO.
However it is a private club and they can make up the rules as they see fit.
 
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I am not a golfing type, but something strikes me as odd :-

A golf club has to be open to men and women in order to be able to host the Men's Open championship.
Why cannot women compete in the Men's Open.
 
arclight said:
I am not a golfing type, but something strikes me as odd :-

A golf club has to be open to men and women in order to be able to host the Men's Open championship.
Why cannot women compete in the Men's Open.
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Because they are not men...... it's a mixture of physiology and rules. I will await the signing of women to play in the English Premier League......

A private golf club cannot be forced to allow woment to be full members. No great shakes for the loss of a 'championship' that mat come around now and then.

On a personal note, I would have hoped, by now, that we would be past the days of any discrimination based on gender, but alas no. I will stand by my earlier post, however, mockrage over the entry requirements for a private golf club really is minor in the bigger scheme of things which women bear globally.
 
arclight said:
I am not a golfing type, but something strikes me as odd :-

A golf club has to be open to men and women in order to be able to host the Men's Open championship.
Why cannot women compete in the Men's Open.
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Probably the same reason that men cannot play in the Women's Open Championship (at Woburn this year).
 
arclight said:
Why cannot women compete in the Men's Open.
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This discussion has me wondering to what extent that golf course design influences the relative "competitiveness" of men and women with a sport like golf. Longer courses with an emphasis on yardage create a bias towards strength and power. Championship courses tend to be designed by men, and yardage appeals to a view of "bigger is better".
 
IIRC there was a female golfer a few years back who entered a few of the men's competitions. (Google tells me it was Michelle Wie.)
 
Alastair said:
This discussion has me wondering to what extent that golf course design influences the relative "competitiveness" of men and women with a sport like golf. Longer courses with an emphasis on yardage create a bias towards strength and power. Championship courses tend to be designed by men, and yardage appeals to a view of "bigger is better".
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You may have a point but 'lay of the land' comes into it too. Yardage is not always the mean of the test but natural features count too.

The old and new 'links' courses at Lahinch in the West of Ireland (Atlantic coast) and Portpatrick near Stranraer have some interesting features (a fairway with the Irish Sea one side and the Loch Ryan the other....).

It's the more fiendish courses where distance is often the minor part of the round.
 
Alastair said:
This discussion has me wondering to what extent that golf course design influences the relative "competitiveness" of men and women with a sport like golf. Longer courses with an emphasis on yardage create a bias towards strength and power. Championship courses tend to be designed by men, and yardage appeals to a view of "bigger is better".
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If you are male and a midget you could, therefore, struggle more than many females.
 
arclight said:
If you are male and a midget you could, therefore, struggle more than many females.
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o_O Many midgets on the professional golf circuit? wtf...
 
Hugh Jarse said:
It's the more fiendish courses where distance is often the minor part of the round.
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And it would be interesting to note if there's less of a differential between the top-ranked male and female players with this type of course. Open/Major courses tend to feature yardage more heavily.
 
In the amateur world, ladies get a head start on most holes (in terms of tee positions) as well as higher potential handicaps. Plenty of the ladies at the club where I'm a member can comfortably out drive me, not to mention keeping it on the fairway!
 
andy700 said:
I cannot be a member of the Black Policemans Association or the Women's Institute

http://www.nbpa.co.uk/

https://www.thewi.org.uk/

Or a ladies only gym

http://www.ladies-of-leisure.net/
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The above links prove the 'equality' has failed by the very need of these organisations.

That said, I personally, have no problem with Muirfield Golf Club, it's a private members club and the members have voted. Anyway, the whole point of a club is not who you let in, but who you keep out.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
The above links prove the 'equality' has failed by the very need of these organisations.

That said, I personally, have no problem with Muirfield Golf Club, it's a private members club and the members have voted. Anyway, the whole point of a club is not who you let in, but who you keep out.
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As I found in the seventies and eighties with tennis clubs, it goes a lot further than gender, religion or race.
We have a situation where the three most powerful politicians in the country belonged to the same "rich boys" club.
 
andy700 said:
As I found in the seventies and eighties with tennis clubs, it goes a lot further than gender, religion or race.
We have a situation where the three most powerful politicians in the country belonged to the same "rich boys" club.
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But are any of them members of Muirfield?
If not it's a little irrelevant :D
 
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