Give DSLR (Nikon) one more chance or switch to mirrorless?

Brazo

Brazo

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I love my Nikon lenses but have been frustrated by outer edge af performance.

I use a Nikon D810 and can nail shallow dof 1.4 focus every time on people’s eyes using the central af point.

It’s when I use the outer af points for such images that af accuracy starts to weaken my hit rate drops off and of course I wish the focus box was wider to cover more of the viewfinder.

outer points are fine when stopped down a bit so dof can hide af errors.

Should I try a D850? Does this have better af point accuracy or just cut my losses and go mirrorless?

The D810 has already been booked in with MPB so I need to make a decision.
 
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Try both, then decide. Mirrorless is more accurate by design, has a much larger % frame coverage and of course eye AF.
 
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twist said:
Try both, then decide. Mirrorless is more accurate by design, has a much larger % frame coverage and of course eye AF.
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I would love to but don’t know how easy that would be! I don’t know if it’s worth throwing (even more) money at f mount.
 
Brazo said:
I would love to but don’t know how easy that would be! I don’t know if it’s worth throwing (even more) money at f mount.
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Dealer visit or 14 day online return for the one you don't keep. I personally wouldn't invest further in dslr unless you're going to lose a ton of money on high end lenses.
 
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You definitely need mirrorless! Eye AF all the way and more focus points than you can shake a stick at. :D
 
twist said:
Dealer visit or 14 day online return for the one you don't keep. I personally wouldn't invest further in dslr unless you're going to lose a ton of money on high end lenses.
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I will lose money switching to mirrorless but about the same as if I was to ‘add’ a d850.
 
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Things that I really like about mirrorless...

1 - Being able to see the exposure and DoF and all of the in view aids.
2 - Being able to AF or MF very accurately anywhere in the frame.
3 - Eye/face detect. Being able to focus on the subject even if the eye/face isn't in the central area where DSLR focus points tend to be. This lets me leave the camera to focus while I concentrate on the composition and pressing the button at the right moment. This really is a game changer if you take pictures of people.

These are all biggies for me and if any of them appeal to you mirrorless may be at least worth a serious look.
 
woof woof said:
Things that I really like about mirrorless...

1 - Being able to see the exposure and DoF and all of the in view aids.
2 - Being able to AF or MF very accurately anywhere in the frame.
3 - Eye/face detect. Being able to focus on the subject even if the eye/face isn't in the central area where DSLR focus points tend to be. This lets me leave the camera to focus while I concentrate on the composition and pressing the button at the right moment. This really is a game changer if you take pictures of people.

These are all biggies for me and if any of them appeal to you mirrorless may be at least worth a serious look.
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Ironically I started off mirrorless with e mount back in 2011! But switched to dslr because the focusing was dreadful on mirrorless! :lol:
 
gramps said:
D850 IMO ... not much learning curve, use existing glass, have one of the best DSLRs available. :)
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I dont suppose you know how the af points work on the D850? As in there are 153 but actually only 55 you can ‘select’? What do the others do?
 
olympus do WOW trial days ,and lend you the gear to try out for a day or two
 
If you decide to go 850 the camera has had an update to correct this exact problem:-

Firmware Version 1.03 to 1.10

• Fixed the following issue:
  • - The camera sometimes had trouble focusing on subjects in the focus points at the edges of the frame
 
Mirrorless. I keep telling people with live exposure preview any old idiot and walk outside in the pitch black and shot a bright lamppost and get the exposure right first time.

It is more or less cheating any skill needed lol
 
Brazo said:
I love my Nikon lenses but have been frustrated by outer edge af performance.

I use a Nikon D810 and can nail shallow dof 1.4 focus every time on people’s eyes using the central af point.

It’s when I use the outer af points for such images that af accuracy starts to weaken my hit rate drops off and of course I wish the focus box was wider to cover more of the viewfinder.

outer points are fine when stopped down a bit so dof can hide af errors.

Should I try a D850? Does this have better af point accuracy or just cut my losses and go mirrorless?

The D810 has already been booked in with MPB so I need to make a decision.
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Is it focussing issues or field curvature (or whatever it’s called) at the edges of the frame? Mirrorless are more accurate but will still suffer the same ‘softness’ at the edges of the frame.
Brazo said:
I dont suppose you know how the af points work on the D850? As in there are 153 but actually only 55 you can ‘select’? What do the others do?
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The 153 points are used for tracking but you can’t select them all as some are ‘between’ AF boxes, the 55 (or whatever) selectable points are plenty imo. AF spread is obviously not as good as mirrorless but you don’t really need any wider 99% of the time.
 
snerkler said:
Is it focussing issues or field curvature (or whatever it’s called) at the edges of the frame? Mirrorless are more accurate but will still suffer the same ‘softness’ at the edges of the frame.
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It happens on all lenses and as you know the af points are all clustered in the middle of the frame so I don’t think it’s field curvature.

When I try the lens in live view the outer focus points become very good!!!
 
Brazo said:
It happens on all lenses and as you know the af points are all clustered in the middle of the frame so I don’t think it’s field curvature.

When I try the lens in live view the outer focus points become very good!!!
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That definitely rules out field curvature then if it’s OK using live view. Tbh all DSLRs I’ve used have been less consistent on the outer points regardless of whether they’re cross or line type.
Brazo said:
That does disappoint me, it’s a bit like the old sony A99 focus system that had a huge number of tracking helper points but a much smaller number of actual af points.

So for an af-c user such as myself I would get 55 af points over currently 51.
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I’ve actually reduced the number of selectable AF points on the Z7 as it’s a PITA having to scroll through them all to go from one side of the frame to the other. The number of selectable points on the D850 was spot on for me.
If you do decide to go mirrorless I’d suggest Sony if you shoot moving stuff, the Z’s aren’t there yet.
 
Are you using BBF ???? on the 810, what I tend to do, but not often, is to use centre single focus point on subject and recompose as the BBF will keep the focus point on original target. This method will determine if it is the camera at fault or the lens (being soft on the edges), personally I nearly always use group focus around the centre point.
 
Brazo said:
It happens on all lenses and as you know the af points are all clustered in the middle of the frame so I don’t think it’s field curvature.

When I try the lens in live view the outer focus points become very good!!!
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This sounds like a mirror/module alignment issue. Typically you will find that one side will front focus slightly and the other side will back focus slightly. I think it probably needs serviced (give a very clear description of what the exact issue is).
 
snerkler said:
That definitely rules out field curvature then if it’s OK using live view. Tbh all DSLRs I’ve used have been less consistent on the outer points regardless of whether they’re cross or line type.

I’ve actually reduced the number of selectable AF points on the Z7 as it’s a PITA having to scroll through them all to go from one side of the frame to the other. The number of selectable points on the D850 was spot on for me.
If you do decide to go mirrorless I’d suggest Sony if you shoot moving stuff, the Z’s aren’t there yet.
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There is currently a Sony flavoured mlc and a d850 in my basket!!!
 
sk66 said:
This sounds like a mirror/module alignment issue. Typically you will find that one side will front focus slightly and the other side will back focus slightly. I think it probably needs serviced (give a very clear description of what the exact issue is).
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I have heard of this before. I’m not alone on the outer points being less accurate though.
 
Nikon f1.8 said:
Are you using BBF ???? on the 810, what I tend to do, but not often, is to use centre single focus point on subject and recompose as the BBF will keep the focus point on original target. This method will determine if it is the camera at fault or the lens (being soft on the edges), personally I nearly always use group focus around the centre point.
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Yes am using bbf. Tbh I dislike focus and recompose, fine at f8 but not at 1.4 as the slightest movement causes problems. Also subject may not be off centre and not covered by the af array.

Are you using 3D tracking to get the focus point to stick to original target?
 
Brazo said:
I have heard of this before. I’m not alone on the outer points being less accurate though.
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Tbh you can get carried away checking all these things out. I had an A77 and if I was being pedantic each outer AF point needed a different AF back/front focus correction.

If you have a camera where one side of the frame consistently back focuses and the other front focuses then it’s likely a module misalignment. If it’s hit and miss and no overall consistency (whether good or bad) then it’s probably just focus inaccuracies/tolerances. I know they say DSLRs can have focus tolerances of 1/3 of the zone of focus, but I wonder if this gets exaggerated the further away from the centre?
 
snerkler said:
Tbh you can get carried away checking all these things out. I had an A77 and if I was being pedantic each outer AF point needed a different AF back/front focus correction.

If you have a camera where one side of the frame consistently back focuses and the other front focuses then it’s likely a module misalignment. If it’s hit and miss and no overall consistency (whether good or bad) then it’s probably just focus inaccuracies/tolerances. I know they say DSLRs can have focus tolerances of 1/3 of the zone of focus, but I wonder if this gets exaggerated the further away from the centre?
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I just watched a Tony Northrop vid which made me feel better as using ultra shallow dof they weren’t getting a great hit rate on a d850 or a7riii so perhaps I am asking too much!
 
Brazo said:
I just watched a Tony Northrop vid which made me feel better as using ultra shallow dof they weren’t getting a great hit rate on a d850 or a7riii so perhaps I am asking too much!
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I shoot pretty much only wide open with fast primes and there is definitely a big difference in hit rate on outer points, that and the coverage edge to edge along with eye AF means no manually moving the point which in comparison is frustrating.
 
Brazo said:
I just watched a Tony Northrop vid which made me feel better as using ultra shallow dof they weren’t getting a great hit rate on a d850 or a7riii so perhaps I am asking too much!
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Tbh my hit rate on the D750 and D850 were very high (95%+) regardless of AF point used. When shooting runners etc I usually have the camera in portrait and use the outer edge (so top middle in portrait orientation) and they’ve served me very well. Granted it’s only been f2.8, but f2.8 at 200mm still gives pretty shallow DOF.

That being said, the outer cluster AF points using the Sigma 85mm f1.4 were hopeless, but I put this down to compatibility issues as I didn’t have such issues with the Nikon 85mm f1.4 I tried.
 
twist said:
I shoot pretty much only wide open with fast primes and there is definitely a big difference in hit rate on outer points, that and the coverage edge to edge along with eye AF means no manually moving the point which in comparison is frustrating.
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Do you mean a big difference in hit rate on your Sony between outer and central points or compared to a dslr?
 
Brazo said:
Yes am using bbf. Tbh I dislike focus and recompose, fine at f8 but not at 1.4 as the slightest movement causes problems. Also subject may not be off centre and not covered by the af array.

Are you using 3D tracking to get the focus point to stick to original target?
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No, I use group focus normally, but in certain circumstances I just use centre point, lock on with that and recompose. I understand where you are coming from with a 1.4 aperture as the distance between subjects over a wide plain is limited. TBH I would stick with the Nikon, if you change and find the same thing happening then its money down the drain. I don't think mirrorless is the be all and end all of photography nirvana but that is just my own humble opinion.
 
twist said:
@Brazo Ordered anything yet? :D
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Lol no! Not yet! Really don’t want to give up my Nikon lenses Tamron 15-30G2 28e 58g 105e 70-200e but they can be frustrating to use with the D810. They can also be a joy!
 
Brazo said:
Lol no! Not yet! Really don’t want to give up my Nikon lenses Tamron 15-30G2 28e 58g 105e 70-200e but they can be frustrating to use with the D810. They can also be a joy!
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Nice setup! Have you considered the Z7 and FTZ?
 
twist said:
Nice setup! Have you considered the Z7 and FTZ?
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I have but I dislike adapted lenses, they look a bit silly on the adapter and can be unbalanced. I don’t think I’d be getting the best af experience, which is ultimately what I’m after.
 
Is mirrorless really there yet, to compete with the likes of the D850 or even D810?
I have to say that I have noticed some who have switched to mirrorless just not posting images of the same quality that they used to.
 
Brazo said:
I have but I dislike adapted lenses, they look a bit silly on the adapter and can be unbalanced. I don’t think I’d be getting the best af experience, which is ultimately what I’m after.
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I tend to agree, if you can go native and need the best AF performance then thats the best way to do it.
 
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