Getting into Studioflash, why buying the Smartflash when there are cheaper?

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New to Studio Flashes and dont fully understand their dinamics butsaw the Lencarta Smart flashes and loved em to build me a little home studio. But seing a friend of mines new Flash system Im at a dilemma

My question is why buying these with 2 heads

http://www.lencarta.com/index.php?p...ategory_id=21&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

when I could get me these with 3 heads, cheaper and extra equip.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professiona...40/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1287692683&sr=8-19

How do I justify the difference in price between theses 2 sets of equip.

Grante the Lencarta flash that made me decide to make a step forward from the hassle the hot shoes can be so that +1 for Lencarta but def not a major decision marker.

Thanks for any info.

Regards
 
product Description
Product Description A professional kit with everything you need to start taking great photos. Three 180W Studio Strobe Flash Lights Barn Door Soft boxes & umbrellas Three light stands 1 carrying bag High quality barn door with honeycomb 4 Color Gels (Translucent, blue, red, yellow) This 4 leaf barndoor set is specifically designed for use on the reflector. Barndoors is essential accessories for any lighting system. These devices alter the shape, intensity, or color of the light output from your flash heads. Use of a barndoor set will result in a shaft of light, when it is attached to the front of the reflector of your light source. The size of the shaft of light will be determined by the opening of the leaves, and the distance of the light from the subject. Soft box: A soft box is an essential piece of kit for the photographic studio utilizing continuous or flash lighting, creating even, natural, diffused light distribution and eliminating extreme highlights and hotspots. Black/Silver Umbrella: This is an Interfit 33" (84 cm), Silver/Black Backing Umbrella. Silver umbrellas are used to bounce light onto a subject. They provide softening, with a harder shadow than a regular white umbrella. Light loss is usually ~1.5 f/stop compared to the same light used direct, bare light. The black backing cuts down on stray light. Wireless Radio 16-Channel Trigger: Wireless radio 16-channel trigger set in the package which is the best tool for supporting camera-flash synch solution. A transmitter sets on the camera, while the receiver plugging into the flash's sync socket. By the 16-Channel, it can trigger multi-flash light synchronously. "
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the description talks about the plastiky extras... that speaks volumes

Are you buying lighting, or gels?
 
about plastic dont see myself as going around banging them. My friends set though not similar to the link is plastic and rather small for how I imagined light Heads.

As for your question about lights or gels sorry didnt get that :shrug:
 
Justify the extra by the following criteria.....

Buy cheap, buy twice.

The Amazon set is totally unbranded.

How often will you really need three lights?

You can read lots of reviews regarding the Lencarta (or other) equipment - how many can you find of the Amazon set?

I bought an air-cushioned lightstand from eBay the other week - it was cheap rubbish that didn't work. Bought one from Lencarta and I'm sure it'll last my lifetime - no comparison.
 
He means the fact that 40% of the description is about the barn doors and gels, the rest is about umbrellas/softboxes etc and what they do...

And this is all of the info about the lights: "three 180W Studio Strobe Flash Lights" - the softboxes, the umbrellas, while useful aren't the main part - the lights are, and nothing is said. There's no description of power adjustment (or even if there is any!), no info if there's a modelling light, it doesn't say if slave flashes are automatically triggered by the other flashes or if you need wires between - all important info to know when buying lights.

The other concerning thing is this:
# 1 Year USA warranty with seller New Harbor!

Which effectively means that you may have to send equipment back to the USA if it goes wrong, which could be very costly. From a legal standpoint, I think there's actually no way to enforce warrantees from other countries, so if it went wrong you could be severely out of pocket.


That asides.. they're an unspecified make, and there's a bit of a saying around this forum of "Buy cheap, buy twice" - ultimately for the sake of saving a little, you could be causing yourself problems.
 
Forget the fact that the cheap ones are made of plastic, are sold by someone who may not be committed to customer care, may know nothing about lighting and you'll have to return them to his supplier in the USA, at your expense, if they fail.

You may assume that having fixed reflectors on the lights that effectively stop you from using any light shaping tools except the ones supplied won't be a problem - and it won't if your lighting doesn't progress beyond umbrellas and softboxes, but it will if you become interested in lighting.

The 'information' in that Ebay listing is just waffle. There is no info that I can see about recycling time (I can tell you though that they take nearly 4 seconds to recycle), about the range of power adjustment, how bright the modelling lamp is (or even if there is one), what the guide number is, there's no info whatever on what's inside the heads, no info on colour temperature consistency, flash energy consistency...


I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point:)

Edit: Gemma types faster than me:)
 
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Trying my friends lights, true I dont recall seeing any brands but not similar to the ones I linked up here from Amazon... but

as I said I found em small, they have a modelling light not that it did me any service, they had control dimmer and are good as slaves. As an unexperienced to studio light as I am was quite impressed by them really but yet my friend was quite unwilling to tell me from where or how much he got them.

Saying that I loved the looks of Lencarta and what little I got about their description and about the varouis positive reviews that go around with them. While I want the lenacrta and chances are if its not the smart flashes Ill probably shelf the idea for future refernce I dont wnat to jump into a project and soon after realize I could have gone cheaper for same results.. happened way too many times :D

But thanks for the info I do understand the buy better and be happy.... had a few unhappy moments with buying cheap
 
Will echo the 'buy cheap buy twice' statement. There are somethings that are fine to buy 'cheap', like the Nikon Grips on ebay. As a general rule though, the more things cost, the better they will be.

I would expect to see recycle times listed, if not assume they are not very good. Where do you got for spare bulbs and the like? You do get a lot of equipment for that, but I just cant see how they can make decent stuff and a profit for that price.
 
That seems to be a lot of kit for not a lot of money. Reasonably cheap light stands can be got for around the £50 mark. So three of them thats £150. Leaves less than £60 for the rest of it. I appreciate bundles are normally cheaper than buying seperates but not that much.

If you want a budget set then Interfit do a reasonable two head kit for that sort of money http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-interfit-int182-ex150-mark-ii-two-head-kit/p1025920

I have and old mark 1 set kicking around and that has done me surprisingly good service.
 
Its not the case of buying a cheap bundle that bothers me... though seeing some prices makes me wonder... Smart Flashes are starting to look a tad pricey :eek:

Its like buying a car... if I dont buy me the model I like chances are I wont be too happy with... And right now the model I want is the Smart Flash and chances are if it aint the Smart I wont be buying anything for the time being..

What I dont want is to get me the Smart without fully enquiring and in the near future I find out that I could have gotten something as or almost as good as these Smart flashes for less money.... in other words a reassurance taht the £269 is justified against the £200 arounds that u find like the interfit.

If The Smart will serve me right and good I really have no doubt.

That is before pressing the buy button :)
 
I'm sure garry won't mind me saying this, but as far as half decent quality lights go... lencarta are cheap as chips.

To give you some perspective, one of the biggest brands are a brand called Bowens, this link - http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-bowens-gemini-200-200-2-head-studio-kit/p1029931 - is to one of their kits, the gemini are basically their cheapest range, and that's for a 2 head kit - 2 x 200s and it's the same as the smartflashes, and comes with a couple of umbrellas etc, and that kit is £459.


To give some idea of differences.

Colour consistancy: Bowens 5600k +-300k (so 5300 - 5900k), Lencarta 5200-5500k.
Recycle times: Bowens; 0.7s, Lencarta, 1s

Those are about it, as you can see lencarta is far better for colour consistancy, a little slower recycling but not enough to notice.

Another popular make for cheap lights are called Elemental, google be thy friend.


A review of the smartflash kit is here: http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=248432


Look I'll be honest, there's a chance, and not a poor one, that those cheap lights will do you, but there's also a chance either something will go wrong and you'll have to replace, or they just won't be good enough after 2 months.

Would you rather wonder if you wasted £60, or in 2 months realise you've wasted £200, and still have to spend that £260 or so on more lights?
 
Bear in mind it's not just the quality of the product that's important but the aftersales as well.

Anything can go wrong no matter how expensive it is. Buy from Ebay and you risk crappy customer service should things go pop in the night. Stick to brands people use and know, it's worth the extra few quid. :)
 
Duplicate :bonk:
 
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littlemonster said:
To give some idea of differences.

Colour consistancy: Bowens 5600k +-300k (so 5300 - 5900k), Lencarta 5200-5500k.
Recycle times: Bowens; 0.7s, Lencarta, 1s

Those are about it, as you can see lencarta is far better for colour consistancy, a little slower recycling but not enough to notice.
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There are more reasons why photographers are very happy to spend more money for Bowens/other equipment than Lencarta.
 
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Kris said:
There are more reasons why photographers are very happy to spend more money for Bowens/other equipment than Lencarta.
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Oh I know, I'm just explaining to the OP that Lencarta actually isn't expensive, and the relatively little differences in light quality. I also did mention Elemental.. and I think there's another one around similar prices too but I can't remember which they are.
 
Kris said:
There are more reasons why photographers are very happy to spend more money for Bowens/other equipment than Lencarta.
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Of course there are. Bowens have been in business since the early 20's, they invented the monolight flash heads and they make good products. History is important to some people, which is probably the main reason why Land Rover, who brought out their first 4-wheel drive cars in 1948 (I think) still have a great following, even though Toyota cars have a reputation for better reliability and performance.

Unlike Kris, who seems to find something negative to say about Lencarta in just about every post, you'll never find me knocking Bowens. If people want to pay twice as much for very similar products, that's their choice.
 
I never knocked lencarta in my post.

I'm sure it is perfectly serviceable lighting equipment and I'm sure people are making sterling work with them.

But dont pretend that they are all things to all photographers. They are not.

Garry Edwards said:
for very similar products
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That is subjective.
 
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If I was starting out, I'd be very tempted by their offerings. 130 quid for a starter gun is very good, and 260 for a 600w/s is superb. With them, I'd be a very happy bunny.



But, off the top of my head...

I dont know lencarta all that well, so some of these may be wrong:

Lack of remote power control - I can't ever remember getting off my arse to change the channel or volume on the telly, why should lighting be any different? Unsuitable for high boom usage, and awkward for hair light. Bowens/Eli/Profoto offer this.

Analogue dials - digital are more simply more accurate to control by 1/10 stops (esp at lower levels) and I can see the exact level of the gun from across my studio.

Worldwide multi voltage.

I dont think Lencarta own the means of production, they rely heavily on Jinbei (and Jinbei Parts) to make them for them. Hence, Jinbei can easily stop making them tomorrow if they so wish, which doesn't inspire confidence in the long term (not helped by their website contact details being a house in a residential street).

These are some of the reasons why I think more expensive equipment, for me, is worth the extra.


However, all this costs money, and some features will not be relevant to all and the money saved will be worthwhile.
 
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Kris, who can supply that spec of stuff for the same price as lencart stuff? Your statement is comparing apples and oranges, like me saying a ford focus is rubbish as a BMW 3 series is better built, nicer leather, faster and has a better ride. While the BMW is better, it also costs more. Finding a bowens light with all that on will cost more than lencarta.
 
Bloody right it will.

I acknowledged the fact in my first and last two sentences.

Doesn't hurt Elinchrom, Bowens, Profoto, BMW sales though, does it.
 
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Lack of remote control - fair point. Lencarta is working on an elegant solution to that one, which will be better than any solution currently available.

Analogue dials. Let's not confuse digital display with digital control. Most flash heads that have digital display actually have analogue control, so no advantage there.

Relying on Jinbei to assemble them - again a fair point, although Lencarta has its own factory too. But let's not forget that Jinbei is the largest studio flash plant in China, by a considerable margin, so if they suddenly get a very large assembly order it doesn't faze them, and they're hardly likely to run into other kinds of problems either. Compare that with some UK sellers of rebadged lights, who deal with a number of different manufacturers, most of which are tiny and very badly resourced - which is a safer bet, Lencarta with their long term relationship with Jinbei, or other companies that don't have long term relationships, that don't deal with large manufacturers? Of course, that question doesn't apply to Bowens, their Chinese factories are small but I'm sure they're well resourced.

As for the registered office address being a private house, so what? A lot of accountants work from home, as do a lot of photographers.

FWIW, I don't think that you're wrong, because different people have different needs, just as the OP isn't necessarily wrong if he buys the very cheapest lighting kit that he can find. We all have financial constraints, only the level of those constraints varies with individuals.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Lack of remote control - fair point. Lencarta is working on an elegant solution to that one, which will be better than any solution currently available.

Analogue dials. Let's not confuse digital display with digital control. Most flash heads that have digital display actually have analogue control, so no advantage there.

Relying on Jinbei to assemble them - again a fair point, although Lencarta has its own factory too. But let's not forget that Jinbei is the largest studio flash plant in China, by a considerable margin, so if they suddenly get a very large assembly order it doesn't faze them, and they're hardly likely to run into other kinds of problems either. Compare that with some UK sellers of rebadged lights, who deal with a number of different manufacturers, most of which are tiny and very badly resourced - which is a safer bet, Lencarta with their long term relationship with Jinbei, or other companies that don't have long term relationships, that don't deal with large manufacturers? Of course, that question doesn't apply to Bowens, their Chinese factories are small but I'm sure they're well resourced.

As for the registered office address being a private house, so what? A lot of accountants work from home, as do a lot of photographers.

FWIW, I don't think that you're wrong, because different people have different needs, just as the OP isn't necessarily wrong if he buys the very cheapest lighting kit that he can find. We all have financial constraints, only the level of those constraints varies with individuals.
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Roll on the remote control. At a wedding, I can use any light stand monkey to assist me when I have remote control over the lights, and once you have tried it, believe me, it's a revelation.

Digital. The advantage is that digital is far more accurate than me twiddling a rotary dial a little bit with my thumb and finger, esp at full stretch (see above). Useful for getting backgrounds perfectly even. Viewable from a distance, and in the dark.

Domestic property - it just doesn't inspire confidence in me whatsoever, that's all. Yes, most photographers are self employed from home or their spare bedroom, but most equipment manufacturers are certainly not. Also, I think that unless Lencarta have a watertight exclusivity deal (in China?) with Jinbei over the designs, there is nothing to stop them pulling the plug and selling direct (which is linked to the domestic property).

Agree completely, not everyone wants or needs this level of equipment. But Little Monsters comments that there were few differences between Lencarta and Bowens were simply incorrect.
 
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Domestic property - it just doesn't inspire confidence in me whatsoever, that's all. Yes, most photographers are self employed from home, but most equipment manufacturers are certainly not.
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As I said, it's just the registered office, it's a legal requirement to include the address of the registered office on the website and the letterheading. The business isn't operated from there so whether the registered office is a private house or not has nothing to do with anything.
 
Garry Edwards said:
As I said, it's just the registered office, it's a legal requirement to include the address of the registered office on the website and the letterheading. The business isn't operated from there so whether the registered office is a private house or not has nothing to do with anything.
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Unless you have to send bailiffs in ;) Much harder for them to enter an address that has residential accommodation than an office... I run 2 companies. One has its registered office as my house, the other at my accountants'. Which is more "professional"? Who cares?

I can't think that I've ever checked where a company's registered office is before buying something off them. And it wouldn't bother me if it was registered to a house. Plenty of big firms have grown from small ones. And if something does go badly wrong it can help to know where the boss lives :D

Anyway.....

I've nothing at all against buying cheap kit that does the job. Especially for many hobbyists who won't put studio lights through as much use in a lifetime as a pro studio can get in an afternoon. But......nothing in that particular Amazon advert gives me confidence in the kit. No mention of the fit of the modifiers - basically it would be a cheap buy and risk it if you wanted to add anything else or if you hit problems. You may think that's worth saving 70 quid and you may not. But I think there are enough differences between them and Smart Flash to justify a price difference.

BTW used a couple of Elite Pros on a job yesterday. It turns out if you smash them into concrete from, ooo, about the height of a lightstand then the modelling lamp breaks. Outrageous..... :)
 
well as it stands I still want the Smart flashes... anything more expensive is def a no no and anything other the smart at same price will have me reading though the reviews and stuff and really dont feel like especially if tehya re all in the same boat by the looks of it.

As for cheap flashes little monster nailed it on the head :bonk:

Look I'll be honest, there's a chance, and not a poor one, that those cheap lights will do you, but there's also a chance either something will go wrong and you'll have to replace, or they just won't be good enough after 2 months.

Would you rather wonder if you wasted £60, or in 2 months realise you've wasted £200, and still have to spend that £260 or so on more lights?


Maybe as someone said I wont be using them in a life time as apro would in an afternoon, but wouldnt hurt if those times I use em I can be happy with them. This year maybe I wont be using them much just a bit of tweeks... next year 2011 maybe I will increase the step and hopefully in 2012 if the world hasnt ended Id have something more the just a home studio and still using the smarts :)

thanks for teh advise everyone those against and in favour... u were helpful to make a decision

regards
 
Garry Edwards said:
even though Toyota cars have a reputation for better reliability and performance.
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Not so sure about that now what with another massive recall :eek: :lol: I shouldn't laugh though as their reputation must be in tatters now :(

Would still choose them over Landrover though, guy at work has a Defender (Tombraider edition) and it's a piece of crap. Only a few years old and the rivets and bolts are rusty, it whole car jumps sideways at the smallest of bumps, tiny amount space inside....is probably quite capable off-road though, when it's not breaking down.
 
NikoNNokiN said:
According to your amazom link the lights are not in stock. Simples!
look in the reviews thread for the Genesis kit from Elemental.
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If you mean Amazon, there isn't an Amazon Link so I'm a bit confused by your post.

For real info, look at the Lencarta website and you'll see that virtually everything is in stock at the mo. Stock is a problem at times because of the very high level of demand, but with a very large delivery this week and another one next week, things are getting much better.
 
I think he meant the OP's Amazon link.

I provided the OP with a link to an ebay seller called link delight (who have an excellent reputation) and who were selling the original lights individually.
 
yeps bought from link delight nice trusty chap he is and fast delivery too
 
Kris said:
There are more reasons why photographers are very happy to spend more money for Bowens/other equipment than Lencarta.
Click to expand...

I agree with Kris. I have a lencarta head and Bowens heads, Bowens wins hands down every time. That said the Bowens kit was £900(2 x 500 heads) and the Lencarta head was £99 (200 head if I remember).
 
lighting threads are starting to turn into fanboi threads that echo Bluray vs HDDVD and MS vs Sony...


..any chance that we an stick to facts? the conversations are civil, but there is an undercurrent developing, Kool Aid style, that I and a few others have noticed.
 
Bit like PC vs Mac (See here) which I asked to be locked because it's gone totally off course

Alas it's still open, but that's up to the mods if they want to keep it that way. Would be nice if someone could be bothered to let me know either way though. :shake:

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing different brands otherwise it'll just be a monopoly.
 
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