Getting into Film

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SimonUK

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Hello all!

I've been recently trying to slim down my gear to only the stuff i want/need. Which meant getting rid of all the random stuff i never use.

I want to start shooting film. I'm 15 so i never really shot film when it was 'what you did'. I want to get a Film body, thats 'old school' mechanical, and stuff like that, not looking for a digital canon body, with out the screen on the back :P

Not really though about what makes i want to go for, or what len's and stuff. I have a few M42 len's i use now, so getting a body that would take them would be cool.

I mainly want to shoot Black and White and i highly doubt i'll ever be developing my own film at home, so i will be using the C41 black and white stuff. I think the only stuff around now is Ilford Xps 400?

So i need you guys to recommend a cheapish body(not looking to spend loads) and a prime Len's or two(a 50mm and 135/200mm, the faster the better :) but no silly prices :P)

I've got a Zenith EM now, but quite frankly. I hate it, and its broken :P

So recommend away guys!

Thanks! Again i'm so young! So i need all the help i can get with Film stuff :)

Simon
 
Hi Simon.

Nice to see you young shavers interested in shooting film. ;)

The Zenith EM, like most things Russian is reasonably well engineered but it's never going to be accused of being pretty, so I can't say I blame you not being too enamoured with it.

I think you have to be realistic when buying 2nd hand film kit and accept that there's definitely a renewed interest which tends to push prices up, particularly if it's well looked after. I'd personally avoid anything which is too cheap and too obviously battered, as that bargain body may turn out to be not much practical use, or cost you far more in the long run getting it put right.

Give us some idea how much you have or want to spend and I'm sure we can come up with loads of brilliant suggestions for you.
 
How about a Fujica ST605N? M42 body. I have an ST605, love it. Nice to hold, feels solid but not tank-like as a Zenith. Takes SR44 batteries which are common. The 'N' variant has the selected shutter speeds in the viewfinder.
A big plus is their price. Quick look on ebay, there's one or two bodies going for a few quid!
 
I kinda want to say like 50 quid ish? Not sure, haven't really looked too much into gear and stuff because i don't know what to look for :P

All i do know is that Film is Expensive so i don't think i will shooot loads of it.

I'm alright at guessing exposure but i'm thinking i might need a Light Meter? Or somthing? Or a body that has one built in?

Thanks guys!
 
There's tons of good old film SLRs out there which will be significantly more enjoyable than your Zenit. I could reel off different models, but the truth is it's more a case of what you stumble upon. I can highly recommend the ME Super/MX Pentax line of cameras, really enjoy my MX, and the K1000 is the classic all manual film camera.
 
A Pentax Spotmatic F would be the best if you want a camera that takes M42 lenses, its essentially an M42 K-1000. They usually go for around £50 with lens.

Try to get one with an SMC Takumar lens because then you can use the open aperture metering with it, the 55mm f1.8 SMC Takumar is usually paired with most Spotmatic F's and is a great sharp lens. Unfortunately all non SMC Takumar lenses are stop down metering only but thats not a bad thing.
 
I mainly want to shoot Black and White and i highly doubt i'll ever be developing my own film at home, so i will be using the C41 black and white stuff. I think the only stuff around now is Ilford Xps 400?
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That's a shame. I think some of the best reasons to shoot B&W is to develop your own.

There is Fuji 400CN, as well as Ilford XP2 400. Both are very good. There is also another European (?) film by Maco, but I can't remember if it is a colour film which can be processed in black and white chemistry. Sounds far fetched - maybe it's like these two.

Anyway. The Fuji 400CN was developed by Ilford too. It has less grain than the Ilford and is designed to go through Fuji colour machines :)
 
Happy_medium said:
That's a shame. I think some of the best reasons to shoot B&W is to develop your own.

There is Fuji 400CN, as well as Ilford XP2 400. Both are very good. There is also another European (?) film by Maco, but I can't remember if it is a colour film which can be processed in black and white chemistry. Sounds far fetched - maybe it's like these two.

Anyway. The Fuji 400CN was developed by Ilford too. It has less grain than the Ilford and is designed to go through Fuji colour machines :)
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Honestly, i'm looking to apply at 6th forms/colleges now. One of the biggest things i'm looking for a Dark room so i can develop. I've done it once or twice before at a local arts center and i loved it. Such an amazing atmosphere in a darkroom.

So you reckon the Fuji has Finer grain? Hmm, looking around on the net says they are pretty similar. I shall buy a roll of each once i sort a camera out!
 
SimonUK said:
So you reckon the Fuji has Finer grain? Hmm, looking around on the net says they are pretty similar. I shall buy a roll of each once i sort a camera out!
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To be honest, I found that that was the best strategy. Nothing better than deciding for yourself, there can be a lot of conflicting and sometimes overly neurotic opinions on the net (they'll have my username written next to them :thumbs:). I wish I started at 15, would've racked up a fair bit of experience.
 
Hey - great choice! Nice to see people as young as you interested in film!

Yes you're right - the grain size (RMS Index) is very similar. But what the net does not tell you, is that when you actually do wet prints, the Ilford XP2 is more 'grainy' in the highlights, like the sky.

I thought like you did, but I realised that for true darkroom wet prints, it's actually nice to have 'grain'. If you know a Fuji Hunt Lab in a high street near you - try the Fuji roll through that. Ilford XP2 can go through most colour machines - it isn't optimised for any, like the Fuji 400CN is. I think you can get them from 9023948dayshop.com

I'm trying to set up my darkroom - it's a headache using arts centre (center? You is American or sumthin'?!) and having to clear out bang on the hour, or having others mess up your chemicals :(
 
Happy_medium said:
I'm trying to set up my darkroom - it's a headache using arts centre (center? You is American or sumthin'?!) and having to clear out bang on the hour, or having others mess up your chemicals :(
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Yeah, this is what is pushing me towards doing it at home. It's odd, because developing and printing is such an intensely loner process (by that, it's really just me myself and I when it comes down to it) but almost always done in shared communal facilities!
 
Happy_medium said:
Hey - great choice! Nice to see people as young as you interested in film!

Yes you're right - the grain size (RMS Index) is very similar. But what the net does not tell you, is that when you actually do wet prints, the Ilford XP2 is more 'grainy' in the highlights, like the sky.

I thought like you did, but I realised that for true darkroom wet prints, it's actually nice to have 'grain'. If you know a Fuji Hunt Lab in a high street near you - try the Fuji roll through that. Ilford XP2 can go through most colour machines - it isn't optimised for any, like the Fuji 400CN is. I think you can get them from 9023948dayshop.com

I'm trying to set up my darkroom - it's a headache using arts centre (center? You is American or sumthin'?!) and having to clear out bang on the hour, or having others mess up your chemicals :(
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I just can't speell :)

Whats everyones opinions on Rangefinders? They are somthing i really want to try out. But alas it can't be done on the cheap!

You guys shooting standards SLRS? Or funky Medium/ Large format, or rangefinders. Maybe even a Twin lens Reflex? :P
 
What kind of rangefinder are you into?

I have a few lol.

They can be cheap - what's your budget? 15 quid? 25? Get a Yashica Electro 35, or maybe a Konica S2 Auto then. 45-70quid? Maybe a Fed2 with interchangeable Jupiter lenses - 35mm and 50mm. But above all, make sure they work before you buy them!

They are okay - I don't find them particularly discrete. A mobile phone works better :D

I shoot TLR - on a Rolleiflex. I do have a few 35mm SLRs too. Love them :)
 
The only rangefinder I have isn't really a rangefinder like what you are thinking - it's an Olympus XA, so it's a compact rangefinder.

For 35mm, I'm just shooting with a standard SLR, nothing special. My jump to medium format was with a Yashica Mat TLR.
 
Well - I've used Kodak BW400CN, XP2+ and Fuji 400CN chromagenic C41 films, and to be perfectly honest, the differences between all three films is probably less than the difference you'd get in using different minilab processing companies, or indeed, the difference between the same minilab using fresh "hot" chemicals, and using chemicals that are ready for replacing. I'd advise buying whichever is the cheapest you can get hold of, until you can source a tank, chemicals, and process "proper" B&W yourself.
 
SimonUK said:
You guys shooting standards SLRS? Or funky Medium/ Large format, or rangefinders. Maybe even a Twin lens Reflex? :P
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35mm SLRs - Canon EOS-3, EOS-30, A-1,Yashica 108
35mm Rangefinder(ski) - FED-3b

120 SLR - Bronica ETRSi
120 Folder (scalefinder) - Voigtlander Perkeo
120 Toy Camera - Holga 120GN
120 Pinhole panoramic camera

and who says Rangefinders are expensive - my FED-3b was £3.50+postage from fleabay. Admittedly, the shutter curtain shed it's rubberised coating during my test roll of film, and needed a coat of latex fabric paint to bring it back into condition - but I think all told, it's probably only cost me £15 - and most of that was postage charges :shrug: (probably because the Body is made from barely recycled Pig Iron :lol:)
 
SimonUK said:
I just can't speell :)

Whats everyones opinions on Rangefinders? They are somthing i really want to try out. But alas it can't be done on the cheap!

You guys shooting standards SLRS? Or funky Medium/ Large format, or rangefinders. Maybe even a Twin lens Reflex? :P
Click to expand...

My first film camera was a Kodak 127,since then shot on nearly all film formats,up to a rail camera 16x20 neg :eek:.

Still got an Nikon F5,waiting for repair,and an Nikon F100 still working :)

Two of my fav camera were the Pentax MX & LX
 
freecom2 said:
Wow, I must admit I didn't know there was such a large size difference between the Mamiya and the 'blad. Nice set of cameras though.
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LOL. The RB67 is a beast in every way - I love everything about it. People tend to think of it purely as a studio camera, but it's well - hand-holdable, and the assembled camera in a moderate sized bag is a lot less weight than most people habitually cart about with a DSLR kit.
 
Any old Pentax body would do, if you don't get an M42 one then a K mount one can be adapted very easily with a genuine Pentax adapter or an ebay copy. (I have an ebay Pixco copy which seems spot on).

I have a Pentax Super A - chosen as it seemed to be the best specced non AF K mount out there, I specifically wanted wide range TTl metering and 1/2000 shuter speeds. Most the others end at 1/1000, only a stop different but when you want to use a fast lens wide open or use C41 B&W films, it's a nice addition.
 
If you're interested in rangefinders have a look at the Voigtlander Vito series. They start with an uncoupled rangefinder (Vito B and C) for about £15 upto the coupled ones which can get upto £80 ish. I have a B and C with hotshoe rangefinders and they make very nice pics.

Andy
 
Thanks a bunch guys! This is all really helping :) I'm just started looking around at gear and already has some serious GAS for some bits :) Unfortunately i can't afford any of it :P

If there any way i can check me Zenit to make sure its ok to put film through, without putting a film through it? As much as i dont like it, i am really eager to get out and shoot :) So living with the Zenit is teh best option until i can get a Pentax or the likes :)

The price of the film stuff has really surprised me aswell! I assumed because you can get DLSR bodys for like 100 quid second hand, that film stuff would be super cheap.

Its not!
 
with your Zenit hold it up to the light with the back open:
cock the shutter, do you see the curtains move?
fire the shutter on different speeds, do the curtains move and shutter open sensibly?
when you fire the shutter does the aperture stop down ok?

then you really need to bung a film through it and see if you get any light leaks.
 
puggie said:
with your Zenit hold it up to the light with the back open:
cock the shutter, do you see the curtains move?
fire the shutter on different speeds, do the curtains move and shutter open sensibly?
when you fire the shutter does the aperture stop down ok?

then you really need to bung a film through it and see if you get any light leaks.
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Curtains go fine! The Speeds seem to work ok :) Not sure what the 30-X means though :P Or the MF and X dial underneath the shutter speed thing :P

The Len's stops down fine aswell, once i put it into the Auto mode anyway :)

The camera is in awesome nick, now dents or scratches, tiny paint loss on the bottom. But nothing big.

the Light seals looks ok :) But i'm not sure, guess i have to drop a film in a try it :(
 
Roll of some cheap crepe film from the poundshop and local supermarket for developing. Should stand you in at under a fiver. Whats the worst that can happen?









Oh yes - you could end up like me, with about a dozen film cameras, and spending an extra couple of grand on L lenses purely because I want to use them with the Digital AND the EOS-3/EOS-30.:cuckoo:
 
Same here with Nikon stuff.....:bang:
 
Not to mention the hundred quid plus of chemicals and developing kit in the cupboard, a couple of hundred for the film scanner and 3 large boxes with 100+ rolls of film in the freezer....

Thank gawd I haven't got it as bad as most off the people in here :lol:
 
TheBigYin said:
Not to mention the hundred quid plus of chemicals and developing kit in the cupboard, a couple of hundred for the film scanner and 3 large boxes with 100+ rolls of film in the freezer....

Thank gawd I haven't got it as bad as most off the people in here :lol:
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I'm lucky if i can drop 50p on some sweet :P working a paper round and a tea Shop, I love being 15 and unable to get a 'real' job for the weekends/after schools! :P

This is why all my Digital stuff is old/cheap :D

Will try and go to Poundland and pick some film up! Not sure if the local Tesco does Dev anymore :( But will check! :D
 
Hey Simon, nice to see another youngster on here! I'm just over a year older than you and I started buying film equipment about this time last year... It's quite habit forming...

Try looking in charity shops, there's a high chance you'll luck in to a decent film camera, maybe even an M42 mount one if you're super lucky. Pentax had a lot of M42 mount cameras back in the day as mentioned above - really reliable with good build and can be had for silly prices.
 
I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I used film for 40 years. Once high quality digital came along I switched and would never go back. I've still got a lot of my film gear, which includes a Rollei 6006 with several lenses and accessories and a full working darkroom, but it's not been used for a number of years now.

The images you take with film will probably end up being digital anyway, so why bother. Just concentrate on your digital skills and get far more enjoyment out of your photography!
 
SimonUK said:
I assumed because you can get DLSR bodys for like 100 quid second hand, that film stuff would be super cheap.

Its not!
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It is if you know where to look, charity shops, fleabay priavet sellers and relatives' garages. Ebay Buy It now and camera shops will charge a fair whack to make aprofit, but they're not selling anything you can't buy yourself elsewhere for less.

My OM2 was £41 delivered with Lens and teleconverter. My Super A was £20 body only. (Mifsuds are selling one for £99) I also had and OM30 which was boxed and like new for £40.

It pays to research before hand and know what you want, and how to spot mis described itmes or items with such a poor description that you need a keen eye to spot what is actually being sold. It's time consuming,but it feels better when you bag a bargain!
 
SimonUK said:
Curtains go fine! The Speeds seem to work ok :) Not sure what the 30-X means though :P Or the MF and X dial underneath the shutter speed thing :P
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The 30-X indicates the flash sync speed, fairly slow by todays standards but do remember that the Zenit range is essentially a copy of a 1930's Lecia 1 with a mirror box added to make it an SLR and newer features like the auto lens iris, the external meter etc.

You want to keep the little disc under the shutter speed dial rotated between the MF and X when shooting normally without flash. Basically turn it until the mark on the flat side of the disc is facing the 'R' by the shutter release. This is unless your shooting with flash where you want the mark facing the 'X'. Remember that the flash mount is not a hotshoe, it only mounts the flash, so you need to use a sync cable. MF would be used for medium flash bulbs, which are difficult to get these days.

BTW, when rewinding the film, remember to turn the ring around/under the shutter release to the 'R' position to disengage the film transport. Not doing so is a easy way to break the film or worst the film transport if the film base is strong enough.
 
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Somelier said:
I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I used film for 40 years. Once high quality digital came along I switched and would never go back. I've still got a lot of my film gear, which includes a Rollei 6006 with several lenses and accessories and a full working darkroom, but it's not been used for a number of years now.

The images you take with film will probably end up being digital anyway, so why bother. Just concentrate on your digital skills and get far more enjoyment out of your photography!
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Well you should dig that Rollei out and use it now and again - there are still big advantages in that larger format. Shooting film these days is a refreshing change for me from the same old work flow and the fact that I can can now scan the images is a plus too - I got fed up of the whole darkroom drag years ago.
 
Somelier said:
I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I used film for 40 years. Once high quality digital came along I switched and would never go back. I've still got a lot of my film gear, which includes a Rollei 6006 with several lenses and accessories and a full working darkroom, but it's not been used for a number of years now.

The images you take with film will probably end up being digital anyway, so why bother. Just concentrate on your digital skills and get far more enjoyment out of your photography!
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I'm sure some of the forum members wouldn't mind relieving you of some of that equipment :P surely getting more enjoyment from using digital is a completely subjective thing? Seems odd to make such a blanket statement on it - I enjoy using my DSLR but using an all metal manual film SLR with mirror slap you could use to wake up anyone within 2 miles of you has it's own charm, and I think film in general has it's own charm.
 
Somelier said:
I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I used film for 40 years. Once high quality digital came along I switched and would never go back. I've still got a lot of my film gear, which includes a Rollei 6006 with several lenses and accessories and a full working darkroom, but it's not been used for a number of years now.

The images you take with film will probably end up being digital anyway, so why bother. Just concentrate on your digital skills and get far more enjoyment out of your photography!
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Hey you are in the wrong forum....I've used film for 55 years and see no reason to go digital, well I take about 24 shots a week (at the best of my ability) on average so what would I do taking 1000/per week of mostly carp with an expensive dSLR :razz:
 
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Alan Clogwyn said:
Any old Pentax body would do, if you don't get an M42 one then a K mount one can be adapted very easily with a genuine Pentax adapter or an ebay copy. (I have an ebay Pixco copy which seems spot on).

I have a Pentax Super A - chosen as it seemed to be the best specced non AF K mount out there, I specifically wanted wide range TTl metering and 1/2000 shuter speeds. Most the others end at 1/1000, only a stop different but when you want to use a fast lens wide open or use C41 B&W films, it's a nice addition.
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You just made me remember,how much i love using my Pentax Super A :)
 
SamuelHearn said:
Try looking in charity shops, there's a high chance you'll luck in to a decent film camera, maybe even an M42 mount one if you're super lucky. Pentax had a lot of M42 mount cameras back in the day as mentioned above - really reliable with good build and can be had for silly prices.
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I'd just point out that the last M42 camera, that I can work out, was the ES II, which came out in 1971 - so any camera that you find which is M42 is going to be at least 40 years old. Even lightly used, the seals are likely to be completely shot, and although they were superbly built, tolerances and parts were simply not designed for 40 years of usage without at least some sort of clean, lube and adjust - if you are serious about the cameras, do factor one in, as 40+ years brings a fair share of grime, dirt and other baggage.

Some of the Spotmatic series is probably pushing 50 years.

A lot of charity shops have been completely cleared out of everything, aside from the usual 90s P&S junk. A lot also have regulars with serious GAS, some of whom are probably contacted when anything remotely serious-camera-looking comes in, in the vague hope that they'll get a Leica M3 for £2.99!
 
Actually the ESII was released in 1974, the ES was released in 1971. Also Voigtlander released a limited production run M42 film SLR, the Bessaflex TM, a few years ago and to my knowledge Pentax didn't cease producing the Spotmatic F and ESII until at least 1976. The Spotmatic didn't actually get released until 1964 so none of them are 50 quite yet apart from the prototypes. Plus don't forget the Russian Zenit series, right up to the end of the Soviet Union (and beyond for some models) most of them used an M42 mount.
 
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