Getting away with dangerous driving!

cambsno

cambsno

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http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...g-the-wrong-way-up-the-A11-20140211060045.htm

Unbelievable! Now I am sure many of us have been hit by a speed camera or speed gun, and get a fine with points... Fair enough I guess, but surely driving at 60 the wrong way down a dual carriageway is more dangerous! Luckily there was no head on, but if that isn't dangerous driving the what is? How on earth is this person not being charged?
 
Another report on it said she had a 'mental condition'
Presumably there was more to it than the police saying
"Oi! are you mental?"
"yes!"
"On your way then"
 
Jayst84 said:
Well, as it says in the article, A Cambridgeshire police spokesman said the woman responsible will not be charged because it is “not in the public interest”.

She will lose her licence, what else would you like to see happen? Perhaps they could dock her pension, or chuck her in gaol... :rolleyes:
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Seeing as you get a fine for not wearing a seat belt/speeding/using a mobile I would expect a large fine too. Is fining me or you £60 in the public interest?
 
cambsno said:
Is fining me or you £60 in the public interest?
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Yes, if it stops you doing it again.

If you are old have some sort of "mental condition" and will have your license taken away exactly what purpose if a fine going to serve?

How you can't see that without having it explained amazes me!
 
cambsno said:
Seeing as you get a fine for not wearing a seat belt/speeding/using a mobile I would expect a large fine too. Is fining me or you £60 in the public interest?
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Yes. If it makes you or me think twice before acting like a b*****d again.

What interest do you think would be served by fining an 80 year old woman with mental health issues who will no longer be allowed to drive?
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
Yes, if it stops you doing it again.

If you are old have some sort of "mental condition" and will have your license taken away exactly what purpose if a fine going to serve?

How you can't see that without having it explained amazes me!
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Fair enough but she hasn't had her license taken away from her yet, the police said they " are working with the DVLA to revoke her licence.” which means at the time she could still drive,and maybe next time kill someone.
And yes it does happen,maybe if she was taken to court strange away,she could be given a ban,and stopped from driving before she kill someone :(
 
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The story I heard was she is suffering with dementia...the more worrying part for me is did people know this, did her doctor know this? And were the dvla notified of her medical condition if medical professionals knew.
If anyone knows anyone who has or had dementia there'd be no blame factor on her but just sadness at the whole situation.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
Yes, if it stops you doing it again.

If you are old have some sort of "mental condition" and will have your license taken away exactly what purpose if a fine going to serve?

How you can't see that without having it explained amazes me!
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This!
 
simonblue said:
Fair enough but she hasn't had her license taken away from her yet, the police said they " are working with the DVLA to revoke her licence.” which means at the time she could still drive,and maybe next time kill someone.
And yes it does happen,maybe if she was taken to court strange away,she could be given a ban,and stopped from driving before she kill someone :(
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Licenses aren't taken away instantly. The Police (as far as I'm aware) can't take somebody's license away. If an application is made with the DVLA, it takes a wee while to process. If somebody is charged the Courts decide if the license is to be lost, again taking time to process. Folk are still free to drive until these due processes have been competed. That's the way I understand it any how.
 
Very recently the process has been speeded up where we, the Police, can get someone's licence taken off them for a couple of reasons. This incident will fall into that category and she won't be driving again. Unfortunately this is far more common than you might think.

On an equally dangerous note we also regularly deal with "elderly pedal confusion" for drivers of automatics. Sadly, we have had a death in the last couple of days where this is suspected.

As a nation we are getting older so I'm sure this won't be the last time you read a story like this.
 
Wookee said:
Very recently the process has been speeded up where we, the Police, can get someone's licence taken off them for a couple of reasons. This incident will fall into that category and she won't be driving again. Unfortunately this is far more common than you might think.

On an equally dangerous note we also regularly deal with "elderly pedal confusion" for drivers of automatics. Sadly, we have had a death in the last couple of days where this is suspected.

As a nation we are getting older so I'm sure this won't be the last time you read a story like this.
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Could you clarify this for me please Luke

Cheers
 
I think the time has to come when elderly drivers have to take a driving test again. What the age will be, open to argument, but Id say an age where youve retired from work so at least if you fail you arent then scuppered for commuting, say 70?. Sure there may be people under retirement age who'd fail but you have to start somewhere. And yes I realise I'd probably fail if I took mine again now, but I dont think Id drive down the wrong side of a dual carriageway or press the wrong pedal in an automatic. Like I say, got to start somewhere.
 
My aunt was more or less blind for some time before she died. (She could see people in a room with her but her distance vision and motion perception were basically gone.) She had a driving license and a car. I believe her doctor thought it would be bad for her to revoke it because it would limit her "independence". We made sure that she didn't drive.

AFAIK my mother still has a driving license. She has dementia. Having a license or not wouldn't make any difference to her anyway as she simply wouldn't remember that it had been revoked though she could probably get in her car and drive it. If it wasn't secured. If she did something like this then locking her up wouldn't be in anybody's interest.

And yes, a family friend was driving his car and had a blackout. The first one he'd ever had. Tragically he killed another driver. That was the first car accident of any kind he'd been in in his life and apart from his age there was really no way to predict it. He never drove again, obviously. Locking him up would just have made the prisons more crowded.

It's a tough one. As @Wookee says, things like this are going to happen more often as the population ages.
 
As someone who looks at crash statistics all day every day as the main part of my job, there are almost as many casualties in the 60plus age range as there are in the 16-24 age range. However, there are many more people over 60 in the population than in the younger group, which makes the risk far higher (3 or 4 times higher from memory) for the 16 to 24 year olds. Maybe we should make them take a test every year?

Yes there are individuals such as this, but there are relatively few thankfully which is why they get in the news. If there were lots of them it wouldn't be newsworthy.

And answering Fabs question, there is a known issue (again not large numbers) where older drivers with automatics can get confused and press the wrong pedal, particularly when setting off.
 
Bythesea said:
And answering Fabs question, there is a known issue (again not large numbers) where older drivers with automatics can get confused and press the wrong pedal, particularly when setting off.
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Thanks Brian. I drive an automatic and it surprises me considering you have to move your foot across quite a bit to push the brake pedal compared to a manual.
 
Its about time Police had the ability to take away licenses.
In the past Doctors seemed to be very reluctant to take away a Drivers license, the excuse being it takes away a persons independence.
OK, I get the reasons, but is it worth risking the public? No.
I tried to get my fathers taken away when he had terminal cancer, and was on morphine, but the quack wouldn't do it. My ex wifes uncle had dementia and was lethal behind the wheel, but his GP was convinced because he was an ex ambulance driver, he would know to stop driving and didn't want to stop him.
 
fabs said:
Thanks Brian. I drive an automatic and it surprises me considering you have to move your foot across quite a bit to push the brake pedal compared to a manual.
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I know what you mean - it does seem odd, though (again from memory as I am supposed to be doing something else right now and don't have time to look it up ;) ) I think it is more often where they have driven a manual most of their life and have gone to automatic as it is "easier".
 
Being currently on the wrong side of the DVsoddingLA's medical department's license revokal almost 18 months after a successful operation, I would be very reluctant to let them get hold of it ever again. They truly are the worst load of c***s I've ever had to deal with.
 
I remember this very sad case from a couple of years back. An 87 year old had a minor accident, was stopped by police who tested his eyesight which was down to 16m. He refused to surrender his licence and three days later drove along a busy high street pavement and ran over a young college student. Her life support machine was switched off the next day, he died three months later.

Her parents campaigned for "Cassie's Law" which I believe now enables licences to be removed much more quickly by the police/DVLA.
 
DorsetDude said:
I think the time has to come when elderly drivers have to take a driving test again. What the age will be, open to argument, but Id say an age where youve retired from work so at least if you fail you arent then scuppered for commuting, say 70?. Sure there may be people under retirement age who'd fail but you have to start somewhere. And yes I realise I'd probably fail if I took mine again now, but I dont think Id drive down the wrong side of a dual carriageway or press the wrong pedal in an automatic. Like I say, got to start somewhere.
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Totally agree, At 70 there should be a retest, and then at 75 and every 2 years after that.
 
Bythesea said:
I know what you mean - it does seem odd, though (again from memory as I am supposed to be doing something else right now and don't have time to look it up ;) ) I think it is more often where they have driven a manual most of their life and have gone to automatic as it is "easier".
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That's a fair point. When my wife, who drives a manual every day, first drove my car, on a couple of occasions pushed her left foot hard on the brake on the approach to a t junction. Now that's not a pleasant experience!
 
When to take someone's license away is always going to be tricky. It will depend on a number of factors and degrees including age and physical/mental disability. I think the processes in place at the moment do need to be looked at though.

When I was diagnosed with MS 8 years ago, it wasn't down to the medical profession to inform the DVLA, it was down to me. I did so and now have to have my license renewed every 3 years (after medical review) but even then I only found out it was me who had to inform the DVLA 6 months later. I wonder how many people out there have been diagnosed with similar but not realised that they had to inform the DVLA.
 
What's p***ing me off about the DVLA at the moment is that in December 2012, my GP (who had seen me every week since my op) was satisfied as to my fitness to drive but the DVLA "doctors" who have never seen me are still dragging their feet and haven't returned my license. Had I been convicted of drink driving, I would have my license back by now...
 
Bernie174 said:
Its about time Police had the ability to take away licenses.
In the past Doctors seemed to be very reluctant to take away a Drivers license, the excuse being it takes away a persons independence.
OK, I get the reasons, but is it worth risking the public? No.
I tried to get my fathers taken away when he had terminal cancer, and was on morphine, but the quack wouldn't do it. My ex wifes uncle had dementia and was lethal behind the wheel, but his GP was convinced because he was an ex ambulance driver, he would know to stop driving and didn't want to stop him.
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As OI mentioned earlier, I know a little more about dementia than I'd like to.

Really, what good would taking these people's licenses away from them do? They need to be prevented from driving. And as tempting as it is, cancelling a piece of paper won't do that.
 
I never been able to have a licence,due to suffering from fits most of my life i have to learn to adjust my life around it,getting to work or getting about.
To me as people have said the problem only going to get worst,we need to stop being so sentimental about it and old people driving,if your not fit to drive your licence should be taken away from you,no matter who you are you're no right to take somebody else life if your unfit to drive.
And in some cases if people are not willing to give up their licence,then if taking them to the courts to force them is the only way,then so be it.
 
It seems to me that all the necessary legislation is already in place. And I'm sure that, in this case, the police will have taken all the steps they can, for example talking to any relatives and neighbours, and may well have "persuaded" the old lady to leave the car keys with them, and presumably her car was taken to a pound anyway.

I'm not sure that re-tests for elderly drivers will be effective. Suppose people over a certain age have to be re-tested every two years? A great deal, health wise, can happen in two weeks, never mind two years...

I have an elderly friend who was driving until recently. He is in extremely poor health and, as a small part of that, he can hardly see at all, but he was still driving. He kept driving simply because it was literally the only way he could get out of the house, and thought it was OK because he only drove about 10 miles a month and his 80 year old wife, who has never driven herself, sat beside him telling him when he was about to hit something :(

We spoke about it, and he sold his car the next day. This poor guy was a menace, but he simply didn't realise it.
 
Personally, I'm in favour of regular retests for every driver, say every 5 years. Not to mention a rewrite of the highway code - IIRC the stopping distances are based on something with cable operated drum brakes...
 
Bernie174 said:
Its about time Police had the ability to take away licenses.
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why the police? with the greatest of respect if someone is to have their licence taken away on medical grounds it should be a medical decision. I agree Drs need to be more ready to remove licences.

Just to mention dementia is one of the medical conditions you are obligated by law to disclose to the DVLA on diagnosis
 
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why the police?
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Simply because in the absence of re testing, and Doctors not being very keen on telling DVLA to revoke a licence, who else is there?
Police officers see the driving, and if it is sufficiently bad then they should be able to remove it until the driver can prove they can drive safely. In actual fact, I am in favour of them doing it for everyone.
 
I agree with you re retesting.

But drivers with many medical conditions are legally obligated to tell the DVLA. And I do think that Drs should and could do more, and I think there is a role for them to work and advise. But I don't think they should be the sole arbiters
 
Preventative law requires that someone should be able to suspend (although not revoke) a driving licence, in order to protect the public. I don't think it matters who has that power, or who exercises, but it needs to exist and it needs to be exercised.

But there needs to be an appeal process in place, and that process needs to be accessible to everone and to not be expensive, i.e. with no award of costs and with the lawyers kept out of it. Otherwise, power will be abused as it is any other areas where preventative law impinges on people's rights.
 
Nod said:
Being currently on the wrong side of the DVsoddingLA's medical department's license revokal almost 18 months after a successful operation, I would be very reluctant to let them get hold of it ever again. They truly are the worst load of POAH I've ever had to deal with.
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:(
 
The law changed to what was mentioned above - Cassie's Law - with an explanation here. Effectively, we make a call from the roadside if we have an incident of it, but it is really limited to eyesight. Having said that if we had a person with dementia I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to complete the roadside eyesight test.

I've not had to do one of the new ones myself yet, but a few of my colleagues have. I have dealt with elderly pedal confusion (pressing the accelerator instead of the brake which gets worse when the driver realises they aren't stopping so presses harder) in which no-one was injured and the driver handed me his driving licence. I think he had been getting an earful from his daughter in the wait for us to drag him out of the railings he'd hit on the other side of the junction.

I think if there is to be any sort of re-testing in future it should be done in a simulator type environment that tests reactions. There is no need to take them on the road.

On the plus side; I've never caught an over 70 on the phone:)
 
POAH said:
:(
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Sorry, the sweary filter did that.

Wookee said:
I think if there is to be any sort of re-testing in future it should be done in a simulator type environment that tests reactions. There is no need to take them on the road.
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Yup, something with hazard awareness and a plain, old fashioned sight test along with reactions.

Garry Edwards said:
Preventative law requires that someone should be able to suspend (although not revoke) a driving licence, in order to protect the public. I don't think it matters who has that power, or who exercises, but it needs to exist and it needs to be exercised.

But there needs to be an appeal process in place, and that process needs to be accessible to everone and to not be expensive, i.e. with no award of costs and with the lawyers kept out of it. Otherwise, power will be abused as it is any other areas where preventative law impinges on people's rights.
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The DVLA can and DO revoke licenses, that's why I'm off the road. I've asked several times how to appeal and just keep getting told that I can but not how. As I said above, I waited for my GP to tell me he felt I was fit to drive before applying in December '12 - he even filled in the relevant numbers for the surgeon for me but a "doctor" in Swansea decided in MAY last year that they should tell me that they had changed the rules in JANUARY '12 regarding my illness and that I shouldn't drive, at which point I stopped. Since then, I was told in October last year that I should hear within 12 weeks - 12 weeks came and went with no word so I phoned and was told that the paperwork had been sent somewhere else and the 12 week clock had been restarted. IIRC, that was 12 weeks ago today (13/2) so I reckon it's phone time again and that I should be more persistent about getting appeal info.
 
Nod, it may be worth talking to your local MP and possibly the local paper as sometimes a bit of publicity works wonders!
 
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