Get out of your comfort zone!

I can't help but feel that Daniel (@Kodiak Qc) is referring to some of my images/posts recently... Not that I mind - I actually take it as a bit of compliment :)

I've only shot three sitters that can call themselves 'models' (due to them actually being paid to model) and I've only shot around six sessions and have had different lighting setups, modifiers and reflectors in all six sessions.

Thing is, if these six sessions portray that I'm in my 'comfort zone' then I've done pretty well to draw that commentary in such a short space of time - especially given that I've only shot three models!

On a more serious note though, I read the original intent to be more along the lines of trying different creative ideas or settings - e.g. get out and about in natural light, rather than studio conditions. I'm more than happy to do all of that, but in this cold weather, nothing beats a good studio shoot!

I think our shooting environment can also constrain things. I'd have loved to do full length things with my recent sitter, but I just don't have the space. That would open a whole new level of creativity which would take me very far out of my perceived comfort zone.

I'll ruminate a bit more on this and then add to my thinking... :)
 
gbmphoto said:
I can't help but feel Kodiak is referring to some of my images/posts recently
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•

No Graham, this thread was inspired by seeing, on the same hour,
some 5 or 6 posts that where at the same time great and a repetition
of what was posted many times before. I did not reply to because it is
non sense to repeat myself.

…but if the hat… ;-)

EDIT
I just read your reply in the other thread…
and yes, now I remember!
 
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Kodiak Qc said:
•

If this is not the right place,
please move to proper forum!
​
I see to many members sticking to what seems to be a winning
recipe. Doing so, will only confirm, time after time, that you are
doing well in that given area. Posting "x" number of photographs,
all a variation on a same theme, will unlikely stimulate you and the
other members to explore new avenues, techniques, approaches.

…or am I getting bored too fast?
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Why would anyone change what they like doing, are good at, and accomplished doing, just for the sake of it? Since when has being able to demonstrate that you can't stick to one thing long enough to master it actually been a good thing?

Having a disparate folio with as many genres as you can squeezed in there is actually a bad thing.. do you not know this?

For many, it#s not about a comfort zone, it's just doing what they do. Trying different things just for the sake of it doesn't really help your photography. By all means have a go at new stuff to decide if it's something you want to do or not, but don't think for one minute having as much variation as possible crammed into your folio or website will help you in any way, because it absolutely will not. That's what amateurs do... you see it all the time on amateur websites. You'd have links or tabs for "Landscape" - "People" - "Sport" - "Cars" etc. It makes you look like you have the attention span of a gnat. Do you see Nick Knight's website with such "genres" on it? What about Annie Liebovitz? Rankin? Of course not. You see it on people's websites who are interested in Photography, and not much else... so their attention wonders around trying to find things that they think makes a good photograph. End result is almost always a bunch if disparate crap.

If you're a commercial photographer, you end up shooting what you're paid to shoot, but specialising in one things and being masterful at it, can often lead to better paid work.

Trying to cover all bases, and doing a decidedly average job of those bases is not really good advice if you ask me.

Doing things outside of your comfort zone is definitely a good thing... but just not necessarily for your photography.


Kodiak Qc said:
•

No Graham, this thread was inspired by seeing, on the same hour,
some 5 or 6 posts that where at the same time great and a repetition
of what was posted many times before. I did not reply to because it is
non sense to repeat myself.
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No offence.... but your website is hardly a shining example of originality. Sorry... it's just not.

I agree in principle though. Sick of seeing the same stuff over and over again in the forums. Sick of seeing people take pictures of their kids on the people section for example FFS... just stop... please.
 
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I actually agree with @Pookeyhead with regards being a Jack of all trades and how that can hurt you. Having said that, I don't think that @Kodiak Qc meant go and shoot landscapes if all you've ever shot is portraits and then go and try wildlife for good measure. I think it's about pushing your comfort zone within your genre, or under the conditions that you shoot most. It's certainly made me think that I don't want to show the same 'style' of images that I've already shot with Ella next month. Whether that means going outdoors or finding natural light within a building, I don't know yet.

It's made me think, though...
 
Pookeyhead said:
I agree in principle though. Sick of seeing the same stuff over and over again in the forums. Sick of seeing people take pictures of their kids on the people section for example FFS... just stop... please.
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This is where David and I part company... Take @Morbid for example - Ian has come on tremendously since he first posted here. In fact, his pictures of his 'kid' helped him learn enough to post a very respectable picture (or more) of Lorna. Without the invaluable experience he got shooting Finley and the loads of critique he got from posting in the People section, I doubt he would have progressed nearly as far as he has.

Hell, if it weren't for my winning streak with obtaining models to shoot, you'd have all been inundated with more pics of Cassidy!

Saying that, when last have you chimed in on any critique of the people that post in the People section, @Pookeyhead? The last time you commented on a thread I posted, I actually took your comments regarding skin processing very seriously and it opened a world of opportunity for me. I've not had the pleasure of your company in a thread of mine since... 'kid' or no 'kid'...
 
Getting off the sofa and going out in the rain is beyond most people's comfort zone...........
 
Pookeyhead said:
Sick of seeing the same stuff over and over again in the forums. Sick of seeing people take pictures of their kids on the people section for example FFS... just stop... please.
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I just don't bother looking at the people section for that reason. I really don't want to be looking at images of other people's children. I took a break from TP at the end last year for about three months partly because I was busy work wise and the fact that the same recurring threads and questions keep popping up (as you've identified). It all got a bit tedious. Not at all dissimilar to the monthly photographic magazines that churn out the same seasonal 'how to do' articles time after time.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I just don't bother looking at the people section for that reason. I really don't want to be looking at images of other people's children. I took a break from TP at the end last year for about three months partly because I was busy work wise and the fact that the same recurring threads and questions keep popping up (as you've identified). It all got a bit tedious. Not at all dissimilar to the monthly photographic magazines that churn out the same seasonal 'how to do' articles time after time.
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Hey Nick, I think I understand what you are trying to convey, but if you view those posts with their intended purpose, I think you will find that the majority of the posters are looking for portrait advice, but they don't have access to willing adults. I certainly don't get the feeling that posters are seeking anything other than advice regarding lighting, composition and processing of people - although their subject happens to be a/their child.

If it wasn't for the advice I received on my posts of my child, I never would have progressed the way I have.

I think this needs to go back on topic though...
 
gbmphoto said:
I think you will find that the majority of the posters are looking for portrait advice, but they don't have access to willing adults. I certainly don't get the feeling that posters are seeking anything other than advice regarding lighting, composition and processing of people - although their subject happens to be a/their child...
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I'd love to shoot different people each time I pick up my camera, Graham is right in that it's due to lack of subjects. I do think twice about posting as I understand people will get sick of the same type of shot of the same kid. The advice has been invaluable, and I'm thankful for the advice given. Now I'm confident in what I'm doing, there is less of a need to post these types of same old shots.

My plan when the weather gets better is to approach local families and offer to take shots of them for free in exchange for using some of the images here and on my website.
I'm hoping the variety will increase my own interest (so I fully understand people's negative points, and I'll post as and when I have a particular issue now, and think twice before doing so).
 
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I'm quite happy with the current lack of diversity in my photography. Ok, I have been doing it for a good few years and have done bits of all sorts of stuff (studio, wedding, product, landscape, street, etc) but I'm rubbish or uninterested in many, if not most, areas of photography. But beyond family snaps, the majority of what I do take photographs of (urbex and industrial landscapes) is a subject I'm genuinely interested in from a non-photographic perspective and have been for 20-30 years, before I even thought of adding photography into the mix. I also think I'm quite good at it (others may beg to differ) and it's an area that I've achieved a modicum of recognition. Plus I'm constantly learning and improving all the time. Pass me the footstool, I'm happy in my comfort zone:)
 
I get bored fairly quickly, and there are only so many 'birds on a branch' or 'man waiting at busstop' I can take. But then again I like uncertainty, it gives me energy to want to improve and do better. So much more to learn in the domain of not knowing what you don't know...But I appreciate that not everyone is the same, many people are just comfortable where they are. A concept that scares me, but who am I to suggest its not ok for them...

I like breaking rules, trying new stuff.

PS. Yes I don't post on here either, a big soft moose said earlier too often its got nothing to do with the photo but the comments are about who took it, not liking the genre, focussed on 'nice and sharp' etc....Or this thing where everyone has to say something nice when effectively I don't like it at all but you can't really say it....All so conformant with convention, very little room for improvement beyond the same as everyone else.
 
dejongj said:
PS. Yes I don't post on here either, a big soft moose said earlier too often its got nothing to do with the photo but the comments are about who took it, not liking the genre, focussed on 'nice and sharp' etc....Or this thing where everyone has to say something nice when effectively I don't like it at all but you can't really say it....All so conformant with convention, very little room for improvement beyond the same as everyone else.
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which itself springs from the other issue of sensitive little flowers who can't take constructive crit (or indeed anyone telling them their work isnt orsum), and/or the sort of one step away from trolling person who insists on getting offended on someone elses behalf .. put it together and what have you got , bippity, boppity... a recipe for a lack of crit both asked for and given, and people who genuinely want both posting elsewhere
 
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Yes but each bird on a branch is a victory of patience and sometimes good technical achievement,

I take a view of the home page, and really only look at what appears to be a very well done bird or an unusual one. I don't feel obliged to look at them all.

As a amateur photographer for some 50 years, I feel this site is improving my digital photography somewhat. I count myself lucky that I don't "do" photography professionally as that would knock the bottom out of it for me.

I just take the camera everywhere and photo almost anything that comes along (if it appeals!). I have no comfort zone as such, unless its the moon or Saturn:)

I like to post here, but find my photos don't receive a lot of feedback, or just get trashed. Kodiak is always helpful, but just a bit too fond of acronyms. (I don't understand DLR and how it applies to a photo).

Other photographers opinions are valuable, as long as I can learn from them

Just my 2p worth.............

mj:olympus:
 
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Mark Johnson said:
Yes but each bird on a branch is a victory of patience and sometimes good technical achievement,
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For some, getting out of their comfort zone could read:
— "Yes but each bird on a branch is a victory of technical achievement and sometimes patience!" ;-)

Mark Johnson said:
Kodiak is always helpful, but just a bit too fond of acronyms.
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This is a direct consequence to bad and clumsy typing (man do I hate typing!) … the shorter the better.

Mark Johnson said:
…I don't understand DLR and how it applies to a photo.
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I will prepare an exemple and PM it!

Very best regards,
 
Mark Johnson said:
. Kodiak is always helpful, but just a bit too fond of acronyms. (I don't understand DLR and how it applies to a photo).
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That makes him a FCWLA (french candadian who likes acronyms) ;)


I must admit i was puzzled as to how the Docklands Light Railway was relevant but i assume its Dynamic something Range
 
big soft moose said:
I must admit i was puzzled as to how the Docklands Light Railway was relevant but i assume its Dynamic something Range
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DRL = Dynamic Range Levels = black and white points setting.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
DRL = Dynamic Range Levels = black and white points setting.
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I gave in and searched. Even auntie Google didn't get it. Kept offering Daytime Running Lights. :D
 
Its what us normal mortals (and adobe) call Levels
 
I can think of a number of photographers that I admire, whose personal work has a recognisable 'look' without making me think that it's confined to any comfort zone - they are obviously always questing for new ways of seeing, and this shows in the work, imparts a freshness, & invites viewer participation. That process is, if you like, what the work's about.

On the other hand there are obviously many (including some who make a living by it) who practice a sort of 'painting by numbers' approach, and it's hard for such work to proceed beyond the mechanical, though it may incorporate the sentimental. Not that there aren't judgements involved and kinds of craft practised, but the visualisation remains pedestrian. I'm talking about golden hour, blue hour, jetties, windmills, 10-stop filters, leading lines - all the stuff that's formulaic, and whilst it may sometimes have a whiff of romance (sunsets or whatever), it can't ever make you sit up in your seat and feel that you've seen something new.

Also, it's possible for a photographer to be technically adventurous without being so emotionally, though maybe that's an issue that goes beyond what this thread's about ...

A lot of commercial work, including photography but extending across many media, may be creative to a high degree whilst seeming trapped as a form of prostitution ...

The craft of photographic 'seeing' is more than a technical adventure. Always, I would ask the question - not HOW did you make that image, but WHY did you make it?
 
:agree:
droj said:
The craft of photographic 'seeing' is more than a technical adventure. Always, I would ask the question - not HOW did you make that image, but WHY did you make it?
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+1

not the journey, but the destination.................

anyone understand that..
 
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Pookeyhead said:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/23/change-life-helsinki-bus-station-theory
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"It's a bus station like any big bus station – except, presumably, cleaner, and with environmentally-friendly buses driven by strikingly attractive blond(e)s."

"Presumably" the author hasn't even been there ! In reality the experience is somewhat different. It's an unremarkable bus station and not dissimilar to the one in Hull.

I am reminded of Lewis Carroll when he wrote "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to."
"I don't much care where –" "Then it doesn't matter which way you go."

Whilst you can gain knowledge and inspiration from other people you need to know when to stop listening to other people and follow your own path. Getting on the wrong bus and going to the wrong station and learning from it is what life is all about.
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
"It's a bus station like any big bus station – except, presumably, cleaner, and with environmentally-friendly buses driven by strikingly attractive blond(e)s."

"Presumably" the author hasn't even been there ! In reality the experience is somewhat different. It's an unremarkable bus station and not dissimilar to the one in Hull.
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I think you're missing the point :) It's a theory... not a real life scenario :)...and I'm sure it was merely a joke :)


Blank_Canvas said:
I am reminded of Lewis Carroll when he wrote "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to."
"I don't much care where –" "Then it doesn't matter which way you go."

Whilst you can gain knowledge and inspiration from other people you need to know when to stop listening to other people and follow your own path. Getting on the wrong bus and going to the wrong station and learning from it is what life is all about.
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It may be what life is about, but we're discussing photography.

I'm afraid I disagree. Chopping and changing, and diverting your attention before you've fully explored one thing will just leave you bewildered eventually. I've seen it first hand, time and time again with students. "I'm gonna do this...." "Ok.. done that... now I'm gonna do this"... etc. It results in no real exploration of an idea,un-developed work, and you end up with a portfolio that makes you look like you have no real dedication to anything, or any speciality. You'll just be making derivative work that's ultimately more of the same old crap. This is why most amateur websites are awful... like I said further up the page... you see "Sports" "Landscape" "People" "Night time", Still life" categories. It makes you look like an amateur and a hobbyist. If that's what you are, then fine, but if you want to develop your practice, you find your passion, and you stop arsing about.. and you master it. You don't see a multitude of "types" of photography on Nick Knight's website, or Alec Soth's do you? No. There's a reason for that, and there's a reason they're the best in their respective fields.

They stayed on the ****ing bus.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
I think you're missing the point :) It's a theory... not a real life scenario :)...and I'm sure it was merely a joke :)




It may be what life is about, but we're discussing photography.

I'm afraid I disagree. Chopping and changing, and diverting your attention before you've fully explored one thing will just leave you bewildered eventually. I've seen it first hand, time and time again with students. "I'm gonna do this...." "Ok.. done that... now I'm gonna do this"... etc. It results in no real exploration of an idea,un-developed work, and you end up with a portfolio that makes you look like you have no real dedication to anything, or any speciality. You'll just be making derivative work that's ultimately more of the same old crap. This is why most amateur websites are awful... like I said further up the page... you see "Sports" "Landscape" "People" "Night time", Still life" categories. It makes you look like an amateur and a hobbyist. If that's what you are, then fine, but if you want to develop your practice, you find your passion, and you stop arsing about.. and you master it. You don't see a multitude of "types" of photography on Nick Knight's website, or Alec Soth's do you? No. There's a reason for that, and there's a reason they're the best in their respective fields.

They stayed on the ****ing bus.
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That's pretty much what I was saying, follow your own path - don't listen to over people's BS !!!
 
Blank_Canvas said:
That's pretty much what I was saying, follow your own path - don't listen to over people's BS !!!
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LOL... ok.. looks like I completely misread your post then. Not sure how I managed that. Whisky probably :)
 
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