Genuine mileage on cars?

treeman

treeman

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Back in the day, you often heard stories of the mileage on a car being altered before being sold, "clocking" I think was the term. Is this still so easy to do on modern cars, 2 - 3 years old?

I'm curious as I've seen cars for sale with fairly low mileage (under 20,000) at quite reasonable prices, and wondered if theres a catch, or I should be wary these days.
 
It is possible, indeed it seems to be quite easy. There are even people on EBay who advertise the service for £40!
 
Mileage adjustment its called now.

Easy enough to do IF you have the kit. Legal If your doing in for the right reasons
 
Best way of checking apparently is to ask for MOT certs, these have annual mileage stated. I keep every one of mine as I do very low annual mileage.
 
The old drill trick :-) I'm not entirely sure how they adjust the digital mileage readout but it's certainly doable. As said, just check the Mot certs and work out the average mileage - I.e. If it's a convertible then it will have less mileage than say and estate car or diesel bmw
 
Flightphoto said:
The old drill trick :) I'm not entirely sure how they adjust the digital mileage readout but it's certainly doable. As said, just check the Mot certs and work out the average mileage - I.e. If it's a convertible then it will have less mileage than say and estate car or diesel bmw
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Apart from those who pay £40 a year "just" before MOT time to "Correct" the mileage.
 
a car 2 -3 years old wont have an mot, easy enough to get done nowadays
i just sold my 2004 cooper s with 46k on it which is 4600 miles a year and had all old mots to verify mileage
 
It used to be a common trick to disconnect the odometer to avoid excess mileage charges on lease cars.

I have a feeling the ECU records the genuine mileage though in a lot of cars so you can check the display against that.

MOT check is a good thing and autotrader now display whether a car has been a write off which is very useful.

I've seen a few dodgy cars on autotrader. Cars claiming well under 100k with shiny gear knobs and ripped seat bolsters. Missing history is another alarm bell. Early history is there, then middle bit goes awol but there's recent history.

I think a lot of the manufacturer used schemes offer vehicles with verified mileages so I'd assume those were a safer bet than other sources.
 
srichards said:
I have a feeling the ECU records the genuine mileage though in a lot of cars so you can check the display against that.
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I know Fords do. Hooking the car up to Fords IDS computer will show the genuine mileage.
 
srichards said:
It used to be a common trick to disconnect the odometer to avoid excess mileage charges on lease cars.

I have a feeling the ECU records the genuine mileage though in a lot of cars so you can check the display against that.

MOT check is a good thing and autotrader now display whether a car has been a write off which is very useful.

I've seen a few dodgy cars on autotrader. Cars claiming well under 100k with shiny gear knobs and ripped seat bolsters. Missing history is another alarm bell. Early history is there, then middle bit goes awol but there's recent history.

I think a lot of the manufacturer used schemes offer vehicles with verified mileages so I'd assume those were a safer bet than other sources.
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Wear is no real indication of mileage though. A high mileage repmobile isn't actually a bad buy these days anyway - being a vital tool of the trade, they tend to be well maintained to avoid downtime and also spend much of their life at relatively low revs while sat at a constant speed on the motorway (which is a comfortable way for the engine to run). A low mileage car may well have been used for short journeys (such as the school and shopping runs) so may have rarely reached proper running temperature. The low mileage car may also have had loads more entry/exit cycles as well as lots of throttle to brake pedal transitions which will wear the interior more than a (well driven [if that's not an oxymoron]) repmobile.
 
So basically if you're buying a used car 2-3 years old, and therefore without MOT, its just a big a risk as its always been, great!

Nod said:
Wear is no real indication of mileage though. A high mileage repmobile isn't actually a bad buy these days anyway - being a vital tool of the trade, they tend to be well maintained to avoid downtime and also spend much of their life at relatively low revs while sat at a constant speed on the motorway (which is a comfortable way for the engine to run). A low mileage car may well have been used for short journeys (such as the school and shopping runs) so may have rarely reached proper running temperature. The low mileage car may also have had loads more entry/exit cycles as well as lots of throttle to brake pedal transitions which will wear the interior more than a (well driven [if that's not an oxymoron]) repmobile.
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That's an interesting take on things. I know nothing about cars or engines, but what you're saying is that low mileage might not be as good as a high mileage reps car, though I presume you'd need to know it was a reps car, or is that self evident because of the high mileage to age ratio?

My theory has always been that anything with more miles on it must mean more where and tear to any moving bits?
 
There's a happy medium. Daft low mileage means either short runs or it sat about a lot. Very high mileage could mean not much life left in it.

I'd have said you need to find out the use really. Mostly motorway or dual carriageway or longer trips is less wearing than lots of short journeys.

Plus newer cars are often fitted with stop start so they're even less likely to be able to warm through properly. I've not heard much discussion about how this affects longevity of engines.

I'd also investigate leasing a brand new car and see how affordable that is over the next few years. If you only keep the car 3 or 4 years then it would make sense to lease over that time instead. Then you know you've got something new and under warranty for the entire time and the mileage can't be fiddled because it's your car. If you tend to buy at 2 years old and keep whatever it is until it's dead ie 12 years old or so then it would make much less sense to lease. Manufacturer 0% offers over 4 or 5 years to buy outright might be a safer bet.
 
There's no simple answer. Mileage wears out car components but different types and styles of use cause different rates of wear. And on different components. At least a high mileage car will have spent a lot of its time running with warm, viscous oils in the engine and gearbox while the greatest single amount of wear occurs when things are cold and being started up to move from stationary!

As an aside I'm fascinated by the current fashion for "engine stop start" technology. I wonder how that's going to play in four or five year's time?


ETA - typing at the same time as srichards! ;)
 
An old lady's car - the 'one careful lady owner' type thing is not always the best buy - low mileage - yes but that mileage is probably short runs in traffic , stop start , going for the shopping type of thing .

Having said that my old Freelander [ yr old when I bought it ] was a LandRover Contract Lease car [ found out where it came from and was happy when I heard who the user was and the type of usage it had ] I've now sold it and got another one - just under a year old - under 10,000 miles and genuine . My mileage is still low - under 10K/year but over half that is motorway cruising at 60 and the car is happy at that.

Stop start town traffic is not good for car engines be they diesel [ mine] or petrol .

Was typing this as the others came in. Hybrid cars are , I'm told a totally different kettle of fish.

My elder daughter tells me that their fleet of Toyota Prius have been trouble free !
 
One other thing gents - now this is not meant to sound sexist but I've found countless cars owned by women with worn out clutches - it seems to be a worldwide thing with women riding on the clutch to the point that it will only last 30k! With regards to anything with mileage I wouldn't touch it if it's gone over 100k. Most cars last until 200k these days and that seems like a common number to me!
 
On Ford cars with stop start, the function doesn't work until the engine has reached a suitable operating temperature. I'd assume other manufacturers are the same.
Warm up times are alot quicker now although short journeys are still not ideal. Ford do carry out "granny tests" when the engines are developed so they are trying to combat any likely problems that could arise.
 
nilagin said:
I know Fords do. Hooking the car up to Fords IDS computer will show the genuine mileage.
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No it wont

It'll show the mileage as recorded in the ecu..A mileage that can be reprogrammed.

they will eventually make a system that can't be altered but as the correct mileage gets written/overwritten to a EEPROM then someone with the correct equipment can overwrite with a new set of numbers just like the car itself would.
 
Flightphoto said:
One other thing gents - now this is not meant to sound sexist but I've found countless cars owned by women with worn out clutches - it seems to be a worldwide thing with women riding on the clutch to the point that it will only last 30k! With regards to anything with mileage I wouldn't touch it if it's gone over 100k. Most cars last until 200k these days and that seems like a common number to me!
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Our fleet of 1.4 Fiesta diesel vans have upto 340k on them. they'll do 250k without major issues but are pushing it a bit going above that.

Motorway cars are a good buy. 100k sat at 2500 revs is nothing compared to being ragged around town. But its not all about the engine. What about the drivetrain and suspension etc
 
mattyg said:
No it wont

It'll show the mileage as recorded in the ecu..A mileage that can be reprogrammed.

they will eventually make a system that can't be altered but as the correct mileage gets written/overwritten to a EEPROM then someone with the correct equipment can overwrite with a new set of numbers just like the car itself would.
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You work for Ford then.
 
Going back in the 80's I had a friend who bought a second hand motorbike. He would go everywhere on at every opportunity and in the two years he had the bike he clocked up 1000's of miles. So comes the time to sell his bike and buy something newer he decides to dismantle the speedo and wind back the odometer only to find a sticker inside the speedo which read " oh no not again"
 
I've had a car years ago that was a repmobile a seirra and it was fine no problems at all
Interesting about the stop start my yaris will turn itself off at the traffic lights before the engine has warmed up, if I'm going into town on a short run I press the switch to turn off the stop start unfortunately you can't turn it off permanently
 
However sophisticated they are, all stop start systems have the piston rings starting up from stationary in the bores while the oil has tended to drain away, but I was thinking also in terms of the extra wear on the starter motor and ring gear.

Flightphoto said:
One other thing gents - now this is not meant to sound sexist but I've found countless cars owned by women with worn out clutches - it seems to be a worldwide thing with women riding on the clutch to the point that it will only last 30k!
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As a non sexist generalised possible explanation, women tend to have shorter legs and smaller feet which might well affect how they operate the clutch pedal when they're sitting a reasonable distance from the steering wheel. :)
 
My only experience of stop/start engines is as a passenger and it operated even from cold. Combined with an 8 speed auto box and a 2.2l engine, it wasn't ideal hauling a big estate around (XF SportBrake). The 3 litre saloon that had the S/S system was much better but that was warm when we got it and although it had the same 'box, the extra oomph and torque stopped it hunting for the right gear. I think that the system can be disabled but every time the engine is switched off by the driver, it resets... Mine (older model with the 6 speed auto and 3l) feels better than either TBH (from the passenger seat!) and doesn't have the stop/start system.Thinking back 30+ years, I was offered a stop/start system as a retrofit for my Frogeye. IIRC, that worked off the handbrake warning light switch.

A few years ago (probably closer to 20!), a German manufacturer got into trouble for using a system that ignored test miles, with the suggestion being that the same system could be used by the main dealers to reduce the total shown.
 
WRT women wearing out clutches faster than men, surely that's in part because they spend so much time clogging up the roads at rush hour on school runs and shopping trips rather than poor driving?
 
That and wearing high heels at the wheel (which I believe is a driving offence?).

My other half is a fine example, although a very safe driver, she wore the clutch out on our renault megane 3, and also softened the engine mounts a little too much from being too quick to engage the clutch at times. As said, this is from personal experience of running a family garage for 20 years of my teen and childhood life, it was just the norm for clutch wear in female driven cars.
Back on topic though, there are some miffy motors out there that just seem a bit too low on the clock when you check out the ancillaries such as bushes etc and realise the cars had a hard life, people need to look past a good valet on a car unfortunately as second hand cars sell quickly. Anyone remember the Danny Devito scene in Matilda where he shows them how to clock the mileage and add saw dust to sweeten the engine?
 
EP-90 hypoid gear oil can reduce rattles in a worn engine too. Allegedly!
 
Yves Geza said:
As a non sexist generalised possible explanation from experience, certain women tend to have shorter legs and smaller hairy feet which might affect how they operate the clutch pedal when they're sitting a reasonable distance from the steering wheel. :)
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FTFY
 
Yves Geza said:
As a non sexist generalised possible explanation, women tend to have no mechanical knowledge which might well affect how they operate the clutch pedal when they're sitting in a car
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Fixed it for you! :exit:
 
Yves Geza said:
However sophisticated they are, all stop start systems have the piston rings starting up from stationary in the bores while the oil has tended to drain away, but I was thinking also in terms of the extra wear on the starter motor and ring gear.



As a non sexist generalised possible explanation, women tend to have shorter legs and smaller feet which might well affect how they operate the clutch pedal when they're sitting a reasonable distance from the steering wheel. :)
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Oil will leave enough of a residual film for starting from cold. The short period during stop start won't be a problem. Starter motors etc. are beefed up.
 
Hmmmm ...

... turns out that nilagin knows nothing about basic engineering and wontolla knows nothing about basic Yv! :p :LOL:
 
andrewc said:
If you look at the service booklet, it may show mileage when it was serviced, and you can usually ring a dealer to double check as they should have records which they can check.
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MOTs should also show milleage
 
Yves Geza said:
Hmmmm ...

... turns out that nilagin knows nothing about basic engineering :p :LOL:
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What makes you say that? I may know a lot more than you think. Or better still I may know a lot more than you think you do. :)
 
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Dunton. Toolroom closed down last July.
 
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