Gas companies rigging prices

[DorsetDude]

It's a lot easier and cheaper to grow your own food than it is to make your own electricity.

I actually think communities need to start their own generation schemes that are run for the benefit of people not shareholders and over paid CEOs. If they make lots of people opt out from getting their leccy from any of the cartel they'll have to mend their ways to even stay in business.

That sounds a great idea!

Following a 9% increase to customer bills, SSE just announced 38% increase in profits over last 6 months ... £400 million.

Yes every privately owned company needs to make a profit but the money made by the utility companies amounts to profiteering and sticking their fingers up at their captive customers - and don't kid me that 'switching' in any way resolves the problem, they have a seemingly legal price-fixing cartel in place that cares nothing for the well-being of their customers.

This! Exactly!

They made 245 million in the preceding six months, its gone up nearly twice that and they *STILL* put prices up and nothing changes. Absolutely friggin ridiculous. No wonder this recession is dragging on and on.

 

[andya700]

I suspect many commodity prices are manipulated. Gas prices are linked to oil prices. It seems offensive in the extreme to trade in these goods without actually wanting the actual physical item. Commodity trading needs stopping as it artificially messes with prices. No one needs to bet on the price of wheat or oil or anything else like that.

Totally agree Suz, it is immoralty of the highest order - but how to stop it?
Oil, gas, water, electricity and basic foodstuffs, should IMO be taken out of the hands of capitalists/private sector.

 

[andya700]

To be honest, something so essential to eveyones lives that they *have* to buy it, should not be controlled/run by profit making organisations at all in my opinion.

Exactly right IMO.

 

[seriousrikk]

This is, of course, assuming you believe that allegations that have been levelled are in face completely true.

I for one will be waiting until Ofgem have completed their investigation as, unlike the current stories that will be based on a full investigation rather than the opinion of one person.

 

[Steep]

To be honest, something so essential to eveyones lives that they *have* to buy it, should not be controlled/run by profit making organisations at all in my opinion.

Absolutely!

 

[cambsno]

That sounds a great idea!

This! Exactly!

They made 245 million in the preceding six months, its gone up nearly twice that and they *STILL* put prices up and nothing changes. Absolutely friggin ridiculous. No wonder this recession is dragging on and on.

Sorry but that is tosh. My increase is probably around £10 a month, that's hardly contributing to the recession. If say prices came down £20 a month the overall economic situation would barely change.

 

[cambsno]

Totally agree Suz, it is immoralty of the highest order - but how to stop it?
Oil, gas, water, electricity and basic foodstuffs, should IMO be taken out of the hands of capitalists/private sector.

No it isn't. The millions we give in so called aid is far more immoral IMO. If u want to give to charity fine, but taking some of my earnings to ultimately help Indias space program or to help fund a new rolls for some dictator somewhere is far more immoral. The billions wasted in out public sector, or the fact that people who know the system can never do a days work and be comfortable is more immoral. What about the amount of fuel duty we pay???

Don't get me wrong, I would love prices to come down, but there are far worse things going on.

 

[gramps]

This is, of course, assuming you believe that allegations that have been levelled are in face completely true.

I for one will be waiting until Ofgem have completed their investigation as, unlike the current stories that will be based on a full investigation rather than the opinion of one person.

Even if the allegations are disproved the current state of charging by the utility companies is a rip-off.

 

[The23rdman]

No it isn't. The millions we give in so called aid is far more immoral IMO. If u want to give to charity fine, but taking some of my earnings to ultimately help Indias space program or to help fund a new rolls for some dictator somewhere is far more immoral. The billions wasted in out public sector, or the fact that people who know the system can never do a days work and be comfortable is more immoral. What about the amount of fuel duty we pay???

Don't get me wrong, I would love prices to come down, but there are far worse things going on.

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[DorsetDude]

Christ, don't get me started on petrol prices!! :bang: :razz:

Agree there are probably worse things going. This gas pricing and then massive profit announcements coming days later though, is so blatant! Somewhere to start the glorious revolution I reckon. Power to the people! (Just not gas power!)

 

[norters]

No it isn't. The millions we give in so called aid is far more immoral IMO. If u want to give to charity fine, but taking some of my earnings to ultimately help Indias space program or to help fund a new rolls for some dictator somewhere is far more immoral. The billions wasted in out public sector, or the fact that people who know the system can never do a days work and be comfortable is more immoral. What about the amount of fuel duty we pay???

Don't get me wrong, I would love prices to come down, but there are far worse things going on.

You actually used the term 'so called'

How you can defend the actions of these companies (should they be true) is beyond me.

 

[Steep]

Don't get me wrong, I would love prices to come down, but there are far worse things going on.

No one can fix all the problems of the world, you take the steps you can take.

 

[viv1969]

No one can fix all the problems of the world, you take the steps you can take.

Funny thing is though, in this instance no steps will be taken. People will whinge and spit thier dummies, but no-one will actually start to do anything. The prices will continue to rise, and we'll all continue to pay. Facts.

 

[acetone]

Following a 9% increase to customer bills, SSE just announced 38% increase in profits over last 6 months ... £400 million.

.

That's £300 million in two years then as last year SSE. LOST £100 million.

 

[gramps]

That's £300 million in two years then as last year SSE. LOST £100 million.

SSE, the UK’s second largest energy generator, and one of the largest suppliers, announced a pre-tax profit rise of 1.6% to £1.3bn [SNIP] [/SNIP] in the year ending March 31st.
SSE attributed this lower level of generation to “still and dry” weather conditions in the early months of 2011, which lead electricity consumption to fall by 2.5%.

March 2011

Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) has been stung by higher wholesale gas prices and a weather-related drop in the output of its hydroelectric schemes and wind farms, which were today blamed for a six per cent fall in half-year profits.
The UK's second-biggest energy company confirmed that in the six months to 30 September, its adjusted profits fell to £385.5m, compared with £410.5m in the same period last year.

March 2010

 

[cambsno]

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Sorry. I must be mistaken. Obviously we don't give any money to India and that all aid to Africa helps those who need it. And our public sector is a lean engine with no waste.

 

[DorsetDude]

Funny thing is though, in this instance no steps will be taken. People will whinge and spit thier dummies, but no-one will actually start to do anything. The prices will continue to rise, and we'll all continue to pay. Facts.

Aint that the truth. Depressing isnt it.

 

[cambsno]

Aint that the truth. Depressing isnt it.

Same as the current issue with Starbucks and amazon not paying any tax. Papers are full of disgust but people continue to use them.

 

[acetone]

Same as the current issue with Starbucks and amazon not paying any tax. Papers are full of disgust but people continue to use them.

But as was pointed out on question time tonight, the vast majority of Starbucks are franchises owned by people who pay full tax, and employ others,so by boycotting them hurting the wrong people.


Also these companies are not breaking the law, they are just using it to their full advantage. Anyone who has an ISA account is using a tax avoidance scheme, as you have moved your money from an account were you pay tax on the interest to one were you don't , thus avoiding tax, but I don't see the media in uproar at these people.

 

[cambsno]

But as was pointed out on question time tonight, the vast majority of Starbucks are franchises owned by people who pay full tax, and employ others,so by boycotting them hurting the wrong people.

Also these companies are not breaking the law, they are just using it to their full advantage. Anyone who has an ISA account is using a tax avoidance scheme, as you have moved your money from an account were you pay tax on the interest to one were you don't , thus avoiding tax, but I don't see the media in uproar at these people.

The government encourage isas!! Well, the gas companies are doing nothing illegal in terms if hiking up prices and making profits so with that argument what's the problem?

 

[Johnd2000]

But as was pointed out on question time tonight, the vast majority of Starbucks are franchises owned by people who pay full tax, and employ others,so by boycotting them hurting the wrong people.

Having enjoyed the benefits of the brand, they can hardly complain when it turns toxic. There's always an option to go independent and buy their coffee from someone who has some idea what social responsibility means.

 

[acetone]

Having enjoyed the benefits of the brand, they can hardly complain when it turns toxic. There's always an option to go independent and buy their coffee from someone who has some idea what social responsibility means.

If we have to punish everyone connected to Starbucks the same should apply to all other companies that are connected to toxic firms. So as news of the world is owned my Murdock, as is sky who sponsor football, I guess we should all boycott the premium league because of the phone hacking scandal.

 

[Johnd2000]

If we have to punish everyone connected to Starbucks the same should apply to all other companies that are connected to toxic firms. So as news of the world is owned my Murdock, as is sky who sponsor football, I guess we should all boycott the premium league because of the phone hacking scandal.

If you feel strongly about it, yes, of course. Although I don't think anyone would suggest its compulsory. It's morally correct to boycott Starbucks but I really don't care what other people do.

I won't buy any of the Dirty Digger's newspapers, but that's not because of hacking, it because they're all awful lying Tory rags. I don't have a problem with sky, as he doesn't own it.

What's wrong with consumers taking their business elsewhere, if they dont like how a firm acts? I really don't see an issue.

 

[Raincloud]

Think i'll install a woodburner, buy a chainsaw!!

 

[acetone]

. I don't have a problem with sky, as he doesn't own it.

What's wrong with consumers taking their business elsewhere, if they dont like how a firm acts? I really don't see an issue.

He own 39% of Sky, that may not be total ownership, but will have a massive say in how it's run.


Franchises are different from single ownership companies, and should not all be tarred with the same corporate brush. If you want to hurt Starbucks that's your choice, but hitting a franchise does virtually nothing to Starbucks income as the franchise owner will still have to pay their licence fee to Starbucks.

 

[Johnd2000]

Franchises are different from single ownership companies, and should not all be tarred with the same corporate brush. If you want to hurt Starbucks that's your choice, but hitting a franchise does virtually nothing to Starbucks income as the franchise owner will still have to pay their licence fee to Starbucks.

They have a choice. Nobody forces them to buy into the franchise, or to stay in it if customers turn away from the brand.

Lets be clear, we're talking about coffee shops here. Not essential community services. I can see no reason to give a monkeys what brand they adopt, other than the fact that some contribute more to society than others. That's kind of an important factor when my local health and education services (for example) are being cut.

 

[Headless Lois]

He own 39% of Sky, that may not be total ownership, but will have a massive say in how it's run.


Franchises are different from single ownership companies, and should not all be tarred with the same corporate brush. If you want to hurt Starbucks that's your choice, but hitting a franchise does virtually nothing to Starbucks income as the franchise owner will still have to pay their licence fee to Starbucks.

Ultimately though if it serves to make their brand less attractive, it can send prospective franchisees to other companies, surely?

 

[BarryDawsib]

Q1: No
Q2: No
Q3: Yes

Its been known a long time price rigging as when ever a freedom of information request has been made for the reality of wholesale prices its been ignored. Always receiving "inflation" as a one word answer :bang:

 

[seriousrikk]

Even if the allegations are disproved the current state of charging by the utility companies is a rip-off.

While expensive, the utility companies generally make very little money from their domestic customers - with the profits often being made elsewhere.

I know based on the published averages (which are subject to ofgem scrutinisation) my supplier made just under £20 profit from my utility supply last year. I don't actually begrudge them that - it's not like we an expect a company run for profit sell a commodity to customer at a loss is it?

 

[Nikon Man]

If you have any intelligence it's dead easy. Use a comparison site. Anyone not shopping around to get best deal deserves to pay more.

What!! not everyone has access to the internet (or want's to) to use comparison sites.

You assume too much how arrogant.:thumbsdown:

 

[Nikon Man]

So what is an 'acceptable' proft? £1.5m per day, £1m per day, £500k per day, £20k per day?

These were publicly owned company's way back and the story told us was it would mean more competition and cheaper prices if they were "privatized"

It never happened that way and is why people get upset by their pricing tactics....simples.

 

[cambsno]

These were publicly owned company's way back and the story told us was it would mean more competition and cheaper prices if they were "privatized"

It never happened that way and is why people get upset by their pricing tactics....simples.

While private companies are not perfect, we all know the public sector has many problems. The inefficiency would have been funded by the taxpayer.

 

[Nikon Man]

While private companies are not perfect, we all know the public sector has many problems. The inefficiency would have been funded by the taxpayer.

We were sold the privatization argument on the grounds that "we" the public would benefit long term. It was a dream given to us by politicians, the biggest dreamers of all.

The taxpayer still fund the railways, years after they were turned over for tuppence to private firms who had no idea how to run a railway.

I won't even mention bank bailouts done in our best interest, they must be having a larf.

 

[gramps]

The taxpayer still fund the railways, years after they were turned over for tuppence to private firms who had no idea how to run a railway.

I won't even mention bank bailouts done in our best interest, they must be having a larf.

Too true.

 

[giantwolf]

While expensive, the utility companies generally make very little money from their domestic customers - with the profits often being made elsewhere.

I know based on the published averages (which are subject to ofgem scrutinisation) my supplier made just under £20 profit from my utility supply last year. I don't actually begrudge them that - it's not like we an expect a company run for profit sell a commodity to customer at a loss is it?

Most sensible post on here so far. Not everything you get charged on your bill is down to the companies, even taking the wholesale market out of the equation.

 

[acetone]

While expensive, the utility companies generally make very little money from their domestic customers - with the profits often being made elsewhere.

I know based on the published averages (which are subject to ofgem scrutinisation) my supplier made just under £20 profit from my utility supply last year. I don't actually begrudge them that - it's not like we an expect a company run for profit sell a commodity to customer at a loss is it?

That's was I was referring to in an earlier post SSE made. £100 million loss on domestic customers last year. They did make large profits elsewhere .

 

[DorsetDude]

That's was I was referring to in an earlier post SSE made. £100 million loss on domestic customers last year. They did make large profits elsewhere .

Go on then enlighten me, where elsewhere?

 

[LCPete]

While expensive, the utility companies generally make very little money from their domestic customers - with the profits often being made elsewhere.

I know based on the published averages (which are subject to ofgem scrutinisation) my supplier made just under £20 profit from my utility supply last year. I don't actually begrudge them that - it's not like we an expect a company run for profit sell a commodity to customer at a loss is it?

did not know that, somebody must be making a fortune out of it tho surely when the prices come down householders dont get their bills reduced?

 

[DorsetDude]

did not know that, somebody must be making a fortune out of it tho surely when the prices come down householders dont get their bills reduced?

You noticed that as well.

 

[acetone]

Easy to slag the energy companie off but they have done some good things ( probably government forced them to) I no longer pay any standing charges as we used too, and I keep getting info about free home insulation from British Gas, which I'm lucky enough to qualify for. ( must take the offer before it's too late)

We could possible have lower price if we allow Shale Gas extraction here in the NW, but all I hear is objection to an industry with the same potential as North Sea oil, so several trillion pounds over the next few decades.

As for our own bill, most people could easily use less energy, we have all seen the info about turn the thermostat down a degree or two, the one I personal use is not heating my water to such a degree that I then have to add cold water to cool it down again before I can put my hands in ( I guess this may not work on a combie boiler)