Garden ponds ( open thread)

[JohnC6]

Managed to get into the pond yesterday.. a very warm day, 23C in the sun..to clean the pump as the flow over the cascades had all but stopped so I'd switched it off a couple of weeks ago and had to wait for my hip injury re my fall to heal enough. The pond is 19' X 10' so plenty of oxygen without the pump. Yet again there was a dead frog on it. That's three times it's happened. The worst was the first time when a very large frog was actually 90% sucked inside. It's quite sad. This latest frog was small what most people think of as the usual size and remained stuck on the outside of the plastic mesh of the lid. We emptied the pond of fish a few years ago but one tiddler ..a Golden Orfe..must have been on one of the lily plant baskets or one of the other pond plants sitting in baskets on the shelf or bottom. It's a large fish now and, obviously, doesn't get sucked onto the pump surface unable to get off it but that first frog was huge and probably weighed not much less than the fish..I wouldn't have thought a pond pump had the suction capacity to do that but it obviously has. If anyone is thinking of buying a pond pump we used to use OASE pumps at £300 (for the size needed for a 2000 ltr pond)until a friend told us that the Swell 10,000 lph. would be fine and it is. £125...!!

Ours is a few years old and has an oval top half not square like this latest design but the same model https://www.swelluk.com/swell-filte...EAQYAiABEgKDNPD_BwE#10000-filter-pump-premium

 

[nog]

Managed to get into the pond yesterday.. a very warm day, 23C in the sun..to clean the pump as the flow over the cascades had all but stopped so I'd switched it off a couple of weeks ago and had to wait for my hip injury re my fall to heal enough. The pond is 19' X 10' so plenty of oxygen without the pump. Yet again there was a dead frog on it. That's three times it's happened. The worst was the first time when a very large frog was actually 90% sucked inside. It's quite sad. This latest frog was small what most people think of as the usual size and remained stuck on the outside of the plastic mesh of the lid. We emptied the pond of fish a few years ago but one tiddler ..a Golden Orfe..must have been on one of the lily plant baskets or one of the other pond plants sitting in baskets on the shelf or bottom. It's a large fish now and, obviously, doesn't get sucked onto the pump surface unable to get off it but that first frog was huge and probably weighed not much less than the fish..I wouldn't have thought a pond pump had the suction capacity to do that but it obviously has. If anyone is thinking of buying a pond pump we used to use OASE pumps at £300 (for the size needed for a 2000 ltr pond)until a friend told us that the Swell 10,000 lph. would be fine and it is. £125...!!

Ours is a few years old and has an oval top half not square like this latest design but the same model https://www.swelluk.com/swell-filte...EAQYAiABEgKDNPD_BwE#10000-filter-pump-premium

Can you not site the pump with a crate sitting over it, something to increase the surface area and reduce suction?

 

[simon ess]

Yet again there was a dead frog on it. That's three times it's happened. The worst was the first time when a very large frog was actually 90% sucked inside. It's quite sad. This latest frog was small what most people think of as the usual size and remained stuck on the outside of the plastic mesh of the lid.

There must surely be a way to prevent your pump from killing wildlife.

 

[simon ess]

Can you not site the pump with a crate sitting over it, something to increase the surface area and reduce suction?

Ah yes, that's the sort of thing.

 

[JohnC6]

Can you not site the pump with a crate sitting over it, something to increase the surface area and reduce suction?

Thanks, Keith. I've had a think about it and I was going to see if I can put a protective ring of fine mesh garden fencing round it..criss-cross wire/plastic fencing but the crate sounds a much better idea as it will, as you say, cut down flow. We have a few crates in the garage attic that we use when we go self-catering for stuff we need to take. We've had the pond years and had frogs in it for years so why those three fell foul over the past few years I don't know. I'll need to cut a hole in the side for the 3" pipe that takes the water from the pump to the cascades.I'll see which is best, either sit the pump inside the crate or place the crate over it and weigh down with a a couple of pond rocks. I can do that tomorrow.

 

[JohnC6]

Can you not site the pump with a crate sitting over it, something to increase the surface area and reduce suction?

There must surely be a way to prevent your pump from killing wildlife.

Really pleased I posted this. I Googled what measures can be taken in case there was something more suitable than the crate which has 'largish' lattice holes, The ones we have,anyway..They fold down flat. So, having looked online this aqua plant basket is the best solution so after the Easter break, on Tuesday when it gets quieter, I'll go to the huge garden centre not too far away where there's an Aqua centre and get a large aqua plant basket, aqua foam and ask what the base slab, that sits on the bottom of the pond, must not be made of. I don't think any old 12" X 12" stone slab can be used as it might have 'stuff' in it that is poisonous to aquatic life.In the meantime, the pump will stay off. I had someone build the pond and I'd have expected him to have thought of this.I now realise that what has stopped aqautic life not being sucked in over the years has been the coating of blanket weed over the pump which is why I have to clean it from time to time and all there's been inside is sludge.

Scroll down to see the diagram...https://everythingnothuman.com/tips-and-advice/tadpoles-and-pond-pumps-dont-mix-what-can-you-do/

 

[LCPete]

Real shame about the frogs John hopefully you are close to being able to sort it
A concrete paving slab would be ok as long as it’s smooth so it doesnt damage your liner but it needs to have been well weathered as fresh cement will leach out chemicals into the water
do you have anything that has been in your garden for a good while?
we have 2 ponds in the garden and the frogs do really well but we don’t run a pump but they only have a few Rudd in not anything fancy

 

[JohnC6]

Real shame about the frogs John hopefully you are close to being able to sort it
A concrete paving slab would be ok as long as it’s smooth so it doesnt damage your liner but it needs to have been well weathered as fresh cement will leach out chemicals into the water
do you have anything that has been in your garden for a good while?
we have 2 ponds in the garden and the frogs do really well but we don’t run a pump but they only have a few Rudd in not anything fancy

No weathered slabs in the garden,Pete. I went into the pond today to measure the size of the pump and we have an empty 'marginals' basket..the type in the link I posted..and it fits over the pump so that's a start. I wear a rubber 'overall' when going into the pond like the ones that salmon/trout fly-fisherman wear when they stand up to their waists in water. I've seen them doing it in Scotland.

I'll ask the expert at the Aqua centre about the slab and mention the cement aspect. There's a company in the Forest of Dean where the natural surrounding rockery rocks came from and I've bought extra ones from there so I could go there and choose a flat one. 15" square. Might be difficult getting a large flat one,though .We have frogs hopping around on the lawn and the patio at night when it's rained or there's a dew on the grass so when I go out there at night I put on the security lights so I don't tread on one. There's a lot of slugs/snails,too so that's why they're about on the lawn and patio. It's also why I don't put out those pellets to kill snails. I collect them in a bucket , sometimes taking them off a plant leaf and take them to the edge of the brook over the road and place them in the long grass on the embankment. I trust they find it ok...lol. .Unfortunately, my neighbour does use the pellets .I have mentioned it but he said he doesn't see frogs in his garden. So..we've had frogs about for 30 years since we had the pond and it's just the ones I've mentioned that came to grief. I've wondered if the large one had eaten a slug that had ingested a pellet in our neighbour's garden and it was already dead when it 'drifted' onto the pump ? We have three filter systems. A 30W UV tube and after that the water goes through very larege container wit six double long brushes and after that another large container filled with 'volcanic' ?.. stones (they're very small.the size garden peas and are orange/black) and it all keeps the water clear. As the pump has been off for a copuple of days the blanket weed is forming (in the sun) and the water greening so we do need the pump and filters.

 

[LCPete]

No weathered slabs in the garden,Pete. I went into the pond today to measure the size of the pump and we have an empty 'marginals' basket..the type in the link I posted..and it fits over the pump so that's a start. I wear a rubber 'overall' when going into the pond like the ones that salmon/trout fly-fisherman wear when they stand up to their waists in water. I've seen them doing it in Scotland.

I'll ask the expert at the Aqua centre about the slab and mention the cement aspect. There's a company in the Forest of Dean where the natural surrounding rockery rocks came from and I've bought extra ones from there so I could go there and choose a flat one. 15" square. Might be difficult getting a large flat one,though .We have frogs hopping around on the lawn and the patio at night when it's rained or there's a dew on the grass so when I go out there at night I put on the security lights so I don't tread on one. There's a lot of slugs/snails,too so that's why they're about on the lawn and patio. It's also why I don't put out those pellets to kill snails. I collect them in a bucket , sometimes taking them off a plant leaf and take them to the edge of the brook over the road and place them in the long grass on the embankment. I trust they find it ok...lol. .Unfortunately, my neighbour does use the pellets .I have mentioned it but he said he doesn't see frogs in his garden. So..we've had frogs about for 30 years since we had the pond and it's just the ones I've mentioned that came to grief. I've wondered if the large one had eaten a slug that had ingested a pellet in our neighbour's garden and it was already dead when it 'drifted' onto the pump ? We have three filter systems. A 30W UV tube and after that the water goes through very larege container wit six double long brushes and after that another large container filled with 'volcanic' ?.. stones (they're very small.the size garden peas and are orange/black) and it all keeps the water clear. As the pump has been off for a copuple of days the blanket weed is forming (in the sun) and the water greening so we do need the pump and filters.

Sounds like you have got a really good setup with your pond filtration is does help keep the water clear if you keep fish , we don’t have a filter setup but do only have a few small fish ,Rudd
Agree with you on slug pellets we don’t use them either or any kind of weed killer
We encourage wildlife as much as possible in our garden

 

[Cobra]

Ours is a few years old and has an oval top half not square like this latest design but the same model https://www.swelluk.com/swell-filte...EAQYAiABEgKDNPD_BwE#10000-filter-pump-premium

Just spotted this, that does seem rather large holes, and will allow quite a lot of debris to get to the intake.
I replaced a dying Jebao Eco pond pump a couple of years ago ( 6-8mm holes in the casing) with a swell pump.
I found it very inefficient, the same as the dying Jebao one so that went back. and replaced it with another Jeboa.
Whether or not I was unlucky and got a faulty one, I don't know.

I kept the old one as a back up, the pond pump is hard wired, but I put a plug on the now spare.
Once running the new one stirred everything up, and I couldn't clear the pond.

A home made filter, large container and various filter medium, and the "old pump" running together soon sorted that out though.
The old one, I'd thrown the shroud away so I cable tied a plastic plant pot, small end, over the inlet, and filled that with those
body scrubber scrunchy things, with a couple of criss cross cable ties, in front of the inlet to stop the scrunchies getting sucked in to the pump.
Worked a treat.

I may have missed it, but why do you need a paving slab? mine sites straight on the bottom of the pond.

​

 

[JohnC6]

Just spotted this, that does seem rather large holes, and will allow quite a lot of debris to get to the intake.
I replaced a dying Jebao Eco pond pump a couple of years ago ( 6-8mm holes in the casing) with a swell pump.
I found it very inefficient, the same as the dying Jebao one so that went back. and replaced it with another Jeboa.
Whether or not I was unlucky and got a faulty one, I don't know.

I kept the old one as a back up, the pond pump is hard wired, but I put a plug on the now spare.
Once running the new one stirred everything up, and I couldn't clear the pond.

A home made filter, large container and various filter medium, and the "old pump" running together soon sorted that out though.
The old one, I'd thrown the shroud away so I cable tied a plastic plant pot, small end, over the inlet, and filled that with those
body scrubber scrunchy things, with a couple of criss cross cable ties, in front of the inlet to stop the scrunchies getting sucked in to the pump.
Worked a treat.

I may have missed it, but why do you need a paving slab? mine sites straight on the bottom of the pond.

​

I said that very thing to my wife today. Why do we need a slab ?...the pond floor is flat .I see my link isn't live in my #3544 post in which it says to use a slab. There's a diagram. Hopefully, the link will stay live this time.

Tadpoles and Pond Pumps Don’t Mix. What Can You Do?

Tadpoles face a hard life avoiding the many ways they can meet their end. The last thing they need is to get sucked into your garden pond pump. What can you do to stop it? <a href="https://everythingnothuman.com/tips-and-advice/tadpoles-and-pond-pumps-dont-mix-what-can-you-do/">Read more</a>

everythingnothuman.com

Pete mentioned the risk of chemicals with the mix of a new slab and suggested something weathered so I have a dozen old grey bricks which we've had for years and the size is right if I put two end to end each side but I'll see if there's a gap between the bottom of the pump and the lining and if there isn't I won;t need to do that. I didn't expect this to go on for so long... ..but all advice gratefully received.

I wonder why they make the casing holes large ? It's as though they hadn't thought of pond wildlife being sucked in . I've never been in the pond to see what the suction is like as going into water with a pump running off the mains via a switch box at the end of the pond doesn't seem a bright thing to do...lol.

 

[LCPete]

I assume the slab is to raise the pump up a bit so that it doesn’t suck in muck from the bottom of the pond but old bricks sounds perfect

 

[LCPete]

I’m not an expert on ponds but one thing that I’ve found over the years is that having a lot of plants in the pond submerged as well as ones like rushes that grow out of the water will keep algae down and keep the water clear
In hot weather though make sure that submerged plants don’t take over too much as the oxygen level will drop too much at night

 

[Cobra]

Pete mentioned the risk of chemicals with the mix of a new slab

Absolutely.
People do have concrete ponds, but they are or should at least be sealed, with a proprietary sealer.

I assume the slab is to raise the pump up a bit so that it doesn’t suck in muck from the bottom of the pond

But if its a half decent pump, which it sounds as it is, it'll pull the muck to and over the slab.

I have a dozen old grey bricks which we've had for years

Again, it'll pull the detritus to the bricks, if they are spaced out, it'll collect in-between them.
If they are laid as a solid block, they'll get covered, eventually.

My pump housing has small feet, that raises it half inch or so. When I take the pump out to clean it, twice a year normally,
I just net the detritus that has collected underneath it.

 

[Gav.]

I have only skimmed over this, sorry if I've missed anything, pond pumps should be raised from the bottom in case the external filter fails or blocks and empties the pond of water your fish then have a safety margin to survive in

 

[Cobra]

I have only skimmed over this, sorry if I've missed anything, pond pumps should be raised from the bottom in case the external filter fails or blocks and empties the pond of water your fish then have a safety margin to survive in

But how far? a foot? 2 feet? if it's not almost on the bottom, it can't do its job properly. The solids will sink well below the pump's sucking ability.
I have a basic box filter loaded with various media, in layers, both aerobic and anaerobic, which then empties in to a small veggie bed ( a 3x2 preformed pond) This type of filter can't block, as the fine top layer is above the outlet (Aerobic) and spray fed.

 

[Gav.]

But how far? a foot? 2 feet? if it's not almost on the bottom, it can't do its job properly. The solids will sink well below the pump's sucking ability.
I have a basic box filter loaded with various media, in layers, both aerobic and anaerobic, which then empties in to a small veggie bed ( a 3x2 preformed pond) This type of filter can't block, as the fine top layer is above the outlet (Aerobic) and spray fed.

few inches to cover a fish as a safety layer (depending on fish), I agree it can't collect all solids, but filters are more for water treating (Nitrogen cycle), solids can be collected with a vac or net, fish waste will 'float' for a while as the fish disturb the bottom.

Lifting the pump is advice for protecting against pipe/hose failure and the old style gravity feed sponge/foam layered ones which block when solids cover the surface then pond water spills over.

 

[Cobra]

few inches to cover a fish as a safety layer (depending on fish),

I'll need a foot for the survival of the fish in an "empty" pond, though

but filters are more for water treating (Nitrogen cycle), solids can be collected with a vac or net,

The nitrogen cycle in my pond, is taken care of, by the veggie filter, a heavily planted top pond.
The solids are removed by the pump / box filter, and various filter mediums, and broken down by aerobic & anaerobic bacteria.
Granted, although my pond is netted, ( a damned Heron keeps dropping by) I will need to skim the bottom, & net the leaves that managed to get in during the winter, if it ever stops raining.

Lifting the pump is advice for protecting against pipe/hose failure and the old style gravity feed sponge/foam layered ones which block when solids cover the surface then pond water spills over.

As before, the way mine is set up, that can't happen.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but a little thought to how a pond filter system is set up, will remove all those problems.

 

[JohnC6]

I’m not an expert on ponds but one thing that I’ve found over the years is that having a lot of plants in the pond submerged as well as ones like rushes that grow out of the water will keep algae down and keep the water clear
In hot weather though make sure that submerged plants don’t take over too much as the oxygen level will drop too much at night

We have lilies in the middle and some marginls but the only fish..poor soul.. lol..will go under the cascade.They both make quite a splash as the water drops from about 15". When I've shut the pump off to clean it and then left it off for 24 hours to let the suspended 'stuff' settle the fish goes to the cascade as soon as it's running again. I just assume the time it spends there ,at anytime, is because it enjoys the enhanced level of oxygen. It actually comes to me when I'm in the pond to see what's going on..lol.

 

[JohnC6]

But how far? a foot? 2 feet? if it's not almost on the bottom, it can't do its job properly. The solids will sink well below the pump's sucking ability.
I have a basic box filter loaded with various media, in layers, both aerobic and anaerobic, which then empties in to a small veggie bed ( a 3x2 preformed pond) This type of filter can't block, as the fine top layer is above the outlet (Aerobic) and spray fed.

My filters have never blocked . The only time the water reduces from the cascades is when the pump casing is covered in that green weed. I usedeto sit the pump on an upside down aquatic pot 12"x 8 " and about 8" in height . I did it so it didn't suck up sludge from the bottom.

 

[Cobra]

My filters have never blocked .

As above nor mine.

he only time the water reduces from the cascades is when the pump casing is covered in that green weed.

That can be a PITA, I use a scrubbing brush on a pole for intermediate service if I'm not lifting the pump out.

I usedeto sit the pump on an upside down aquatic pot 12"x 8 " and about 8" in height . I did it so it didn't suck up sludge from the bottom.

There is plenty of room in the pump housing to collect the sludge, as above, I clean it all out a couple of times a year.
I'd rather sit in on the bottom, so I'm not disturbing the bottom, if there is accumulated sludge, that gets stirred up, if netting it out,
Rather, lift the sludge with the pump and housing..

 

[Gav.]

I'll need a foot for the survival of the fish in an "empty" pond, though

The nitrogen cycle in my pond, is taken care of, by the veggie filter, a heavily planted top pond.
The solids are removed by the pump / box filter, and various filter mediums, and broken down by aerobic & anaerobic bacteria.
Granted, although my pond is netted, ( a damned Heron keeps dropping by) I will need to skim the bottom, & net the leaves that managed to get in during the winter, if it ever stops raining.

As before, the way mine is set up, that can't happen.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but a little thought to how a pond filter system is set up, will remove all those problems.

Sorry Chris, I wasn't aiming the info at you

I only posted to highlight a possible issue that some over look/aren't aware of.

I agree planning has a lot to do with all this.

---

@JohnC6
we had blanketweed issue that came in on some plants.
Take a look at this if you've not already, worked for us

ClearWaters Blanket Weed | NISHIKOI

www.nishikoi.co.uk

 

[Nod]

going into water with a pump running off the mains via a switch box at the end of the pond doesn't seem a bright thing to do...lol.

Without the circuit being RCD protected, it would be but nobody could be that stupid, could they?

 

[Dave Canon]

Real shame about the frogs John hopefully you are close to being able to sort it
A concrete paving slab would be ok as long as it’s smooth so it doesnt damage your liner but it needs to have been well weathered as fresh cement will leach out chemicals into the water
do you have anything that has been in your garden for a good while?
we have 2 ponds in the garden and the frogs do really well but we don’t run a pump but they only have a few Rudd in not anything fancy

I noticed that our pond was in urgent need of a clean including the pump. it is not a large pond about 80 gallons. However, last week I was suffering from COVID so my wife volunteered and did a good job. She found 3 live fish, one dead fish plus several newts. The pump inlet is covered by a plastic foam so does not pull the fish in. It needed little cleaning and all is running smoothly again. I found the foam clip-on at the local aquatic centre.

Dave

 

[Cobra]

Sorry Chris, I wasn't aiming the info at you

Nor me you Gav I was only saying what I do, And how I do it.

Without the circuit being RCD protected, it would be but nobody could be that stupid, could they?

I just turn the power off at the pond mains before putting any body part in the water.

 

[Gav.]

Without the circuit being RCD protected, it would be but nobody could be that stupid, could they?

Just put a toe in the dirt, you'll be earthed then

 

[Tringa]

Blanket weed ins't a problem in our pond - the barley straw deals with it. The problem we have is duck weed. I think the only solution is just to keep netting it out. Anyone know a better way?

Dave

 

[Cobra]

The problem we have is duck weed.

I've been lucky with that, as soon as I spotted the tiniest bit, I netted it out.
I've not seen any in years.
The trouble is the tiniest bit soon multiply s.
I don't think there is an easy answer TBH.

 

[Gav.]

Blanket weed ins't a problem in our pond - the barley straw deals with it. The problem we have is duck weed. I think the only solution is just to keep netting it out. Anyone know a better way?

Dave

Buy a Duck, Coot or Moorhen

As Chris said removal is only answer .. but the duckweed could be keeping your blanket weed down by using it's food and robbing light

 

[JohnC6]

Without the circuit being RCD protected, it would be but nobody could be that stupid, could they?

I do what Cobra does..ie switch the pump off and I do it by pulling the plug out of the socket in the dining room. The armoured cable runs from there, through the wall, underground to the switches (pump and UV filter) screwed onto the wood surround of the filters

 

[JohnC6]

Just spotted this, that does seem rather large holes, and will allow quite a lot of debris to get to the intake.

​

I had to post a link to the latest pump as they don't do the model I have so here's a photo of mine I took today.

I'm now having to wait for O-rings for the UV filter. Three of the four were perishing.

They are large holes, aren't they. I think larger than those on the latest model.


I've placed that green garden fencing at the shallow end (allows frogs etc to get out) to stop pigeons having a wash & brush up..I don't mind that but they poo too and it drifts in a grey slick across the pond. They've stopped coming now after 10 days but I saw them trying to get into the pond over it. . Hopefully, I can take it away,soon. The UV filter, at the back, is covered with the green plastic sheet until I put the new 30W UV filter in . The old one I left with the garden centre for disposal..bin men don't like a tube that could 'explode' .I don't want to put the housing bits back together and then have to unscrew it all again to put the new tube in and the new O-rings in at either end where the tube fits. You can just see the only fish we have. I'm sure its a golden orfe. The right side filter(wood infront) holds the sets of twin brushes and the left hand one, the pea-sized stones. Both need cleaning out of sludge from time to time. No easy ride with a pond is it


We used to get these mallards flying in on a daily basis. The neighbours loved to see them glide down and take off. ...lol.

 

[Cobra]

Thats a nice looking pond @JohnC6 much bigger than mine.
I'll post a picture if it ever stops raining!

 

[JohnC6]

Thats a nice looking pond @JohnC6 much bigger than mine.
I'll post a picture if it ever stops raining!

That's 19' long X 10' wide. About 2000 gallons not Litres as I said the other day. The garden is longer than it looks in the photo as it was a 17-40mm lens at 17mm on a full frame camera.The pond takes up about 1/3 of the garden The mallard photo was taken with a 24-105mm at 58mm.

 

[Cobra]

About 2000 gallons not Litres as I said the other day.

I guessed that, going on the pump size as mine is around, 2200l with a 3500 l/hr pump.

 

[Dave Canon]

I do what Cobra does..ie switch the pump off and I do it by pulling the plug out of the socket in the dining room. The armoured cable runs from there, through the wall, underground to the switches (pump and UV filter) screwed onto the wood surround of the filters

This does not sound right. I wired mine in and it is fed from the mains via an RCD but also a double pole switch. The latter is important so you break the live and neutral when you switch off. For cabling going outside to a pond it is just as likely that insulation breakdown can occur between neutral and earth as live and earth. Either could throw the RCD out and without the double pole switch you could not isolate so would have to disconnect the wiring.

Dave

 

[JohnC6]

This does not sound right. I wired mine in and it is fed from the mains via an RCD but also a double pole switch. The latter is important so you break the live and neutral when you switch off. For cabling going outside to a pond it is just as likely that insulation breakdown can occur between neutral and earth as live and earth. Either could throw the RCD out and without the double pole switch you could not isolate so would have to disconnect the wiring.

Dave

I'm not familiar with that terminology, Dave. I've just looked back at what I described and it reads as though the cable goes from the dining room regular three-pin socket directly to the pump but it actually goes to a fused small electric box and the box has three switches. Pump-UV filter and a spare switch which I once used for pond light. Does that sound safer ? I've never heard of a double pole switch. An electrician set it up. When the pond was built the chap got an electrician in to do it and the electric box was large and then a few years ago we got a new one and an electrician fitted that one. . We've never had a problem with it.