Fussy subjects

nellipope

nellipope

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Penny
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I am completely new to this forum, so really hope this is posted in the right section.

Wondering how some of you deal with fussy subjects, those clients that just don't like your work? I studied photography, but I work as a graphic designer by trade, however photography is still a big part of my life and well loved hobby. I flatly refuse to take photos for a living, purely because people generally dislike photos of themselves, they just can't see past personal flaws (and these are usually falsely perceived flaws). I've done weddings, portraits you name it, but the client was never happy. You could take a beautiful photo, that captures the soul, the moment, but all they see is a big nose, big bum, wonky ear (my husband claims he has a wonky ear . . . I can't see it myself!).

Anyway on Tuesday I was persuaded to do a photo shoot for some yoga teachers, they picked two locations, one very mono but striking and the venue had beautiful light, the other was the countryside, some woodland, and they wanted the pictures to be strange, funky (their word not mine) dramatic and magical. I'll be honest I did my best, the rain was torrential, one teacher has body dismorphia, and the clients hate them! And yet I look at them, and I'm really pleased with them.

How do you guys deal with unhappy people?

Nelli
 
Hi, Nelli and welcome to TP.

I don't like having my photo taken, mainly because I'm an ugly SOB!!! Actually, I should rephrase that, I don't like seeing photos of myself for that reason but have no problems if people want to take photos of me! My wife hates being photographed (and is coincidentally a SW based yoga teacher!) even though she's completely opposite to me (and no, she's not standing behind me - she's out teaching.)

I don't usually shoot people other than the occasional candids of friends or groups, although I have done a few shoots with my wife (which she has prints of but won't show them to anyone.)

As for pleasing the client, well, if they don't like their perception of themselves, they're unlikely to like the reality when they see it. Maybe (in the case of the yoga teachers) try to catch the poses rather than the faces?
 
nellipope said:
I am completely new to this forum, so really hope this is posted in the right section.
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Welcome to the forum :)
I'm sure that you'll soon find your way around .
This maybe better in the talk people and portraits section ;)
John .
 
Think you might be better to have this thread moved to Talk People & Portraits, I have moved it for you

Welcome to TP though :D :welcome::wave:
 
nellipope said:
How do you guys deal with unhappy people?

Nelli
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Sorry it's more questions than answers.
Well it all depends on why they're unhappy. We can assume it's because you failed to meet their expectations, that's the easy bit to work out. But why?

Is it because you failed to understand their requirements?
Is it because you understood their requirements but failed to deliver?
Is it because their requirements were unrealistic and you never managed them?

The bad news is:
It's not likely to be because they're over fussy, and almost certainly because you either didn't manage their expectations or failed to understand how to fulfill their requirements.

Is the work you supplied up to the standard you use to advertise your services?
If it is; Why did they expect better? What did you promise?
If it isn't; Why not? And how can you fix it?
 
Phil V said:
Sorry it's more questions than answers.
Well it all depends on why they're unhappy. We can assume it's because you failed to meet their expectations, that's the easy bit to work out. But why?

Is it because you failed to understand their requirements?
Is it because you understood their requirements but failed to deliver?
Is it because their requirements were unrealistic and you never managed them?

The bad news is:
It's not likely to be because they're over fussy, and almost certainly because you either didn't manage their expectations or failed to understand how to fulfill their requirements.

Is the work you supplied up to the standard you use to advertise your services?
If it is; Why did they expect better? What did you promise?
If it isn't; Why not? And how can you fix it?
Click to expand...

Hi Phil: I don't think they knew what they wanted, and bear in mind I'm not a professional photographer, I am a graphic designer who studied photography the stuff they viewed when they took me on was my personal photography site (http://www.strangelightphotography.com) personally I find it hard to separate the client's needs from my own creative pursuit and that's my issue and why I normally turn any commission work down My website is purely there for my pleasure. I spoke to the client at length they wanted arty / unusual shots, flattering natural light headshots and as I previously mentioned "funky" outdoors stuff and loads of editing. I was out of my depth really as I'm not a fan of portraits (unless they're on my terms), I will post some up so you can have a look.

http://yogaphotoshoot.businesscatalyst.com/index.html

I also think the issue was creative control, I didn't pick the locations and didn't like them. The ladies were quite insistent on some terribly contrived poses etc, and it's very hard to explain to them that some of their ideas just are not going to work. But at the end of the day I caved in and let them do their own thing, I should have taken control.

To be honest I totally understand why people don't like pictures of themselves and they certainly don't have to like my interpretation. Will stick to graphics and keep photography for myself.
 
For my two bits, I think they're quite cool images!
 
Thanks Sunnyside. I think it's probably fair to say don't ask a graphic designer to do a photographer's job. Ha ha!
I like some of the less portrait images the more figure-within-environment type picures. But I was trying to explain to them that complex yoga poses make for strained faces which don't really appeal to people taking up Yoga for the first time. But admittedly I'm terrible at yoga so what do I know, however it was nice to take photos of other people rather than just family for a change and also work within the confines of a brief.
 
Well i just had a look at the photos,and i cant find anything terrible wrong with them,maybe its the age we live in where everybody exception are so high about everything :(
 
Ive also just looked at the images, and cant really see any major problems...

I had a situation a couple of years back where I was asked to do an Engagement shoot. The couple were that typical mid-twenties, successful, attractive type (damn them :D), and it turned out that they were extremely vain, whilst having self image issues at the same time.

Needless to say, when I showed them the images (which incidentally I was extremely pleased with), they didnt like a single one of them. All of them had issues...dont like my hair in that one, the top my arm looks a bit fat in that one etc etc etc. I appreciate that not everyone will like ALL photos ive taken, but to find fault with every single one was just mind boggling. I showed the images to a number of people afterwards, both photographers and non-photographers, and they pretty much all said the same thing, that the shots were very good, very creative, the couple looked great and so on.

I later found out that they got a cousin to shoot their Wedding for them...for free. maybe they just didnt want to pay me even though the shots were good? Who knows.

Incidentally Penny, ive also looked at your personal site, and really like your photographic style (y)
 
Personally I prefered the indoor shots, for me too much DOF outdoors have made the shots "messy" but then that's my personal viewpoint and it may be totally opposite to what your "clients" think of your shots or even what you think of them. If all of your clients (wedding shots etc) are saying they dont like them then I have to say maybe you havent got the great "eye" you think you have, eithet that or in 50 years time you will be "discovered". I suppose if you're being paid to do these shots then you have to supply what the client wants and if they are unhappy (mostly) I'd agree with Phil that you're missing the brief. On the other hand if they were freebies and you're happy with them then they cant really complain can they.
 
I would imagine that they would have wanted slanty/flarey California sunset style lighting. For the outdoor stuff. And they are probably realising that, on the whole, the pink trousers might have been a mistake. Shallower dof is a good shout too.
 
Some people enjoy moaning and never being satisfied.

I'd say it's their problem not yours. Good photos, put it down to them being pretty unreasonable and move on.

If you had done a lot of this and 10% or 20% of people whom you snap were unhappy then something's wrong. But this sounds to me as if it's one of your first "proper" shoots and they're moaning. Hardly a statistically significant sample so chalk it up to experience and get excited about your next project!
 
The only thing I'd suggest in future is for them to watch their posture. For yoga teachers the portraits by the window have them exhibiting terrible posture. Lovely space to shoot though.
 
Thanks for all your support, I really do appreciate it. It's a toughie taking photos of people when A. You're not used to it and B. there really isn't much of a brief to work from.

The23rdman said:
The only thing I'd suggest in future is for them to watch their posture. For yoga teachers the portraits by the window have them exhibiting terrible posture. Lovely space to shoot though.
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23rd man you have a great point, I think this maybe one of the reasons they are unhappy, with many of the photos they were out of alignment (I really wouldn't know what I was looking for as I was focussing more on features, shapes, interesting shadows and light casts etc, I wouldn't know a down dog / crane / warrior pose if my life depended on it), but this probably added to their appointment.

But I really appreciate all the feedback. Thankyou

Stevie- said:
I would imagine that they would have wanted slanty/flarey California sunset style lighting. For the outdoor stuff. And they are probably realising that, on the whole, the pink trousers might have been a mistake. Shallower dof is a good shout too.
Click to expand...

Haha yes I'm afraid the outfits were not my choice and sadly the torrential downpour and cold conditions gave terrible light and subjects that looked about as happy as frozen snots, bless those girls they had to stand in nettles, rabbit holes and wet grass, but hey the woodland was their choice, can't say I didn't warn them.
 
Well I like you images , the single person portait shots have great lighting , the outside ones are too bright and too much greenery for me . I would turn some to mono and jazz up the potrait images to give a more vibrant colour on the lips and eye or maybe a mono with a single colour.
 
Weirdly, I usually have the opposite issue. I often find myself full of self-doubt and my own worst critic and I sometimes look at my pictures and think how I could have shot it a little better and I worry whether the subjects will like them or not. They invariably do and are often over the moon with them which comes as a relief.

FWIW I like your pictures and can't understand why the subjects don't.
 
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