Full frame upgrade - 5D3 or d810?

Morph3ous

Morph3ous

Suspended / Banned
Messages
598
Edit My Images
Yes
I've sold my trusty Canon 60d and am in the market for full frame camera. I've always hankered after the 5D3 since it's release but funds prevented purchase. I now have the money to get a decent 2nd hand model but after being out of the world of new bodies for a while, recent reading has revealed the advancements of the Nikon range, particularly with the d810. The pixel count appeals as I am prone to a bit of pixel peeping and love the crisp, sharp, detailed images even after cropping. I appreciate this is set of against the file sizes of the d810.

Now I'm not particularly tied to the Canon brand with glass. I have a 70-200 L lens but other than that only a 50mm 1.8 which I love, and I anticipated getting something like an 85mm or 135mm later down the line. So switching now would be an option.

I shoot mainly family/portrait, with a good amount of landscape too. When I think about what I want from a camera, low light/AF/dynamic range are what appeal and where my 60d lacked. A recent review I saw on Fred Miranda showed the colour noise created by the 5D3 when trying to recover detail from shadow, whereas the d800 was much cleaner as well as having more detail in 100% crops. I've heard the d810 may be even better.

So, with a potential 5D4 around the corner, but out of my current price range, what would people recommend? 2nd hand 5D3 or d810? They're similarly priced.

Oh also, I'm not interested in the 6D due to the AF.

Thanks in advance
 
•

There is only one answer to your concern:

It all depends on your lens scope and future investments.

Photography is seeing first, in your mind, and the way you
want to see your world is expressed through a lens. THEN,
only then, you may contemplate recording what you see and
this is done through the camera.

Faster than ever, technical improvements are making your
actual camera(s) obsolete but far not so fast your lenses.

I made a choice some 40 years ago. Then it was simpler as
there were only three possible choices:
Leica: great gear but no system
Minolta: the best system but their gear was not too solid
Nikon: tough gear and their system was growing fast.
(at this point, Canon was still making toys!)
​
 
Last edited:
Morph3ous said:
I've sold my trusty Canon 60d and am in the market for full frame camera. I've always hankered after the 5D3 since it's release but funds prevented purchase. I now have the money to get a decent 2nd hand model but after being out of the world of new bodies for a while, recent reading has revealed the advancements of the Nikon range, particularly with the d810. The pixel count appeals as I am prone to a bit of pixel peeping and love the crisp, sharp, detailed images even after cropping. I appreciate this is set of against the file sizes of the d810.

Now I'm not particularly tied to the Canon brand with glass. I have a 70-200 L lens but other than that only a 50mm 1.8 which I love, and I anticipated getting something like an 85mm or 135mm later down the line. So switching now would be an option.

I shoot mainly family/portrait, with a good amount of landscape too. When I think about what I want from a camera, low light/AF/dynamic range are what appeal and where my 60d lacked. A recent review I saw on Fred Miranda showed the colour noise created by the 5D3 when trying to recover detail from shadow, whereas the d800 was much cleaner as well as having more detail in 100% crops. I've heard the d810 may be even better.

So, with a potential 5D4 around the corner, but out of my current price range, what would people recommend? 2nd hand 5D3 or d810? They're similarly priced.

Oh also, I'm not interested in the 6D due to the AF.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

As a 5d3 user, I'd recommend the Nikon. The latitude to lift shadows is far better, the 5d3 has a horrible susceptibility to colour noise if the shadows are tinkered with too much.
However, the 5D3 has a great AF system, which I use for motorsport and boxing with good success, I can wholly recommend this.
Having not used a D810, I can't make a like for like, but I understand it is a much better performing sensor, which seems to tick the box in terms of your requirements.
 
Morph3ous said:
Oh also, I'm not interested in the 6D due to the AF.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind to go Nikon. Unless you are shooting moving wildlife/sports etc. which you don't mention that you are, the 6D would seem to be a pretty good match for your needs.
 
It's a win/win imo/e. The 5D3 very nearly caused me to switch from Nikon. It is such a well rounded camera that is nice to use. My main camera now is the D810, can't really see me changing anytime soon now, it just works. Probably didn't help you much there - sorry.
 
I appreciate the replies.
I was excited to use a decent AF system to capture images of my young (and speedy) children!
I used to miss a lot of frames through blurring when shooting with the 60D. Using centre point AF point was fine with focus and recompose on still subjects, but even then I had the odd error when using a narrow depth of field and little one moved. This was often necessary because of the poor low light ability of that camera, and the noise introduced when pushing the ISO. As soon as I tried to get 'running' shots or similar (my 1yr old rarely keeps still) especially from side to side instead of directly towards me, I found the AF lacking. This was where I thought the 5D3 would fit my needs wonderfully, but I'm not sure quite how good the Nikon is?
 
The AF in the D810 will easily track running toddlers. First use of mine was to shoot my border collie at speed chasing her ball ... given I'd literally put a battery and card in the camera and not changed any default settings, it breezed it. It is toward the top end of Nikon AF systems. The Canon system in the 5D3 is more complex imo (perhaps that's me not fully speaking Canon) but I would say they perform pretty much the same.
 
Thank you again.

Okay so, I've been Canon for life. I know everything about Canon lenses, but little about Nikon ones.
If I were to switch, is there a decent equivalent to the nifty 50? Same price range?
I'd then need to look at a replacement for my 70-200L and a shorter zoom, or another prime.
 
Nikon 70-200 f2.8 is a fantastic lens :)
 
There are a few 50mm lenses from Nikon,

1.8D £110
1.8G £170
1.4D £170 s/h
1.4G £350

aaaaaand for good measure
58mm 1.4G £1349


70-200 there's

70-200 2.8 VR1 £8-900 s/h (i think)
70-200 2.8 VR2 £1800 New (there is also a cashback of £150 atm)
70-200 f4 VR £1000ish New

They also do some older zooms such as:
80-200 2.8 (various versions ranging £300-600 ish I think)
70-210 f4 (£100-150ish)
70-210 4-5.6 (£50-100ish)

Shorter zooms

35-70 2.8
28-70 2.8
24-70 2.8
24-70 2.8 VR
24-120 f4 VR
24-120 3.5-4.5 VR
24-85 3.5-4.5 VR


There's probably loads i've missed off :lol: Obviously, there's 3rd party versions for all of those lenses but they make them for Canon too so you may already know about them!
 
Your options as I see it are actually d810 or wait for 5d4 due in the autumn...

I'm really hoping canon has taken the sensor shadow improvements seen in the 80d for example and improved then further on the full frame.
 
I'm going from FF to Fuji imminently.

Therefore if you do choose the D810 keep an eye out on the Nikon for sale forum as I'll have

80-200 f2.8
50mm f1.8D
85mm f1.8D
35-70 f2.8AF

for sale soon.

Terry.
 
I had seen the 5D4 was due in August time, but sadly I don't have the funds for a brand new full frame. I'm in the £1300-1500 bracket.

ecoleman - as per my first post the 6D isn't on the list mate. The AF isn't a good enough upgrade for my liking.

My current 70-200L is the F4 IS and I've been more than happy with it. It's a great lens, and f4 would probably be sufficient for my needs around the home at the focal length, although I didn't use it anywhere near enough as the 50mm prime and the 17-55 I used to own.
 
I've been in this situation myself before. In my experience, moving system only serves to frustrate as you try to untrain your Canon brain and re-train to someone else's. I did it with Fuji, what a waste of money.

Your Canon vs Nikon scenario is of the same ilk - sure, the D810 might be better than the 5D3, but the two companies pull ahead of one another depending on where they are in their respective development/release cycles.

If it was my choice to make, I'd stick with the system I knew. It appears you're not averse to buying used lenses/bodies - one thing about the Canon system is the sheer number of used items on the market.
 
I'm a Canon user and have had a 5D3 but I think if I didn't have a big investment in lenses and wanted a camera for the subject matter you shoot then I would probably buy a Nikon. D810 or maybe a D750. Both great camera. 5D3 bit long in the tooth now and surely an upgrade due soon but I've waited for Canons upgrades for far to long.

Whether the D810 is the finest FF DSLR going is a matter of debate. Depends on your requirements I guess.
 
What about a second user 1DS3 or 1DX now that the 1DX2 is becoming available (i'm assuming you can't afford the £5k plus for the 1DX2)
 
ecoleman - as per my first post the 6D isn't on the list mate. The AF isn't a good enough upgrade for my liking.
Click to expand...

Sorry, you said you shoot portraits and landscapes and the 6D's focus system is more than adequate for that.
 
big soft moose said:
What about a second user 1DS3 or 1DX now that the 1DX2 is becoming available (i'm assuming you can't afford the £5k plus for the 1DX2)
Click to expand...
Good call. I went for a 1Ds3 over a 5D3. Got a mint one, really good find. The 1DX would be my upgrade choice now but only when it comes down from the £2300 tag it currently carries.
 
Unfortunately 1DX is out of budget, so it really is between the 5D3 and the d810. At the moment in leaning towards the Nikon but I need to feel more comfortable with their lens setup and I also need to go get my hands on one. There's a WEX down the road so I'll go play.
 
going to nikon - there is also the option of the D4 or the D750 (I assume you won't want a D610 for the same reasons you don't want a 6D)
 
Morph3ous said:
Unfortunately 1DX is out of budget, so it really is between the 5D3 and the d810. At the moment in leaning towards the Nikon but I need to feel more comfortable with their lens setup and I also need to go get my hands on one. There's a WEX down the road so I'll go play.
Click to expand...
Are you in Norwich? I went to the WEX showroom there a few years back, I'd love a store like that near me.
 
UKmitch86 said:
Are you in Norwich? I went to the WEX showroom there a few years back, I'd love a store like that near me.
Click to expand...

Yes mate I am. I'm hoping they'll let me have a good play and compare.
 
Morph3ous said:
Unfortunately 1DX is out of budget, so it really is between the 5D3 and the d810. At the moment in leaning towards the Nikon but I need to feel more comfortable with their lens setup and I also need to go get my hands on one. There's a WEX down the road so I'll go play.
Click to expand...
Best option - to go and play that is :) fwiw Nikon lenses are decent too ;) seriously though the 70-200 f4 is lovely and the 50mm f1.8g is very good value (decent IQ at low cost). The 85mm f1.8G is excellent as is the far more expensive 85mm f1.4G

Good choice of mid zoom too from the venerable 24-70, 24-70 VR (latest and greatest but fiercely expensive), through 24-120 f4 vr, 24-85VR etc. The older pro lenses like 28-70 are worth looking at too
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm more of a tech geek than a technophobe, so I have no initial issue in learning the new brand. In some ways its rather exciting to be 'starting over'. I'm just trying to get my head around the Nikon equivalents of the focal length lenses I had in mind. Trouble I have is i've not used FF more than for a day, so I don't know what focal length prime i'd enjoy. For example I loved my 50mm 1.8 on my 60D, but that would have been more similar to an 85mm on the crop sensor. I used to choose it over the 17-55 every time when I was doing a dedicated shoot with the kids.
Had I gone with the 5D3 I was going to live with the 50 and the 70-200 for a little while to figure out what I lacked, and then go from there. Moving to Nikon doesn't give me that luxury. I know I'd certainly be picked up the 50mm 1.8G, but after that I'm not sure. I'm leaning towards a 35mm and then a 70-something...but I'm just not sure at the moment.
 
ecoleman said:
Sorry, you said you shoot portraits and landscapes and the 6D's focus system is more than adequate for that.
Click to expand...
...and Motorsport, horse jumping and my crazy dogs :)

The only thing it sometimes misses is something tracking directly towards the camera from a close distance at speed.

AF is fine on the 6d, it just doesn't splatter the frame with a silly amount of AF points!
 
Last edited:
Morph3ous said:
Thanks for the advice. I'm more of a tech geek than a technophobe, so I have no initial issue in learning the new brand. In some ways its rather exciting to be 'starting over'. I'm just trying to get my head around the Nikon equivalents of the focal length lenses I had in mind. Trouble I have is i've not used FF more than for a day, so I don't know what focal length prime i'd enjoy. For example I loved my 50mm 1.8 on my 60D, but that would have been more similar to an 85mm on the crop sensor. I used to choose it over the 17-55 every time when I was doing a dedicated shoot with the kids.
Had I gone with the 5D3 I was going to live with the 50 and the 70-200 for a little while to figure out what I lacked, and then go from there. Moving to Nikon doesn't give me that luxury. I know I'd certainly be picked up the 50mm 1.8G, but after that I'm not sure. I'm leaning towards a 35mm and then a 70-something...but I'm just not sure at the moment.
Click to expand...

I moved to a D610 from (well, I still use it) Sony back at Christmas because I wanted an upgrade in image quality.

The wider dynamic range and cleaner detail available from FF is brilliant, but I've found some aspects of the Nikon less pleasing. The lens mount has been around decades, but in practice is really crude and awkward when changing lenses - much harder to align and lock in place quickly than a modern mount like Canon or Sony. Looking at used Nikon lenses, many show significant wear to the edges of the bayonet and scuffing across the bottom in ways that I've never seen with Sony - make sure you have a chance to try the system before you buy. And talking of lenses, if you want decent quality then you'll need to avoid most of the consumer grade stuff* , and the nice lenses (as already posted) are pricey unless you don't mind manual focus.

Not trying to say you shouldn't buy Nikon, but worth thinking about if you're going to jump.

*The first lens I bought was the 50 1.8G - maybe I got a poor copy, but found it disappointing compared to an old Minolta 50 f1.7 in terms of image quality (softness, chroma especially) let alone the Sony 50 f1.4 that I used quite a bit.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the advice [emoji4]
I'm going into WEX tomorrow. They've conformed today they've got a d810 on display as well as the 5D3 and although I didn't ask I'm assuming the d750 is there too. I'm going to take an SD card with me and switch it between cameras firing off a few shots. I might take my 50mm with me too to try on the 5D3. This way I can get an idea of how they all feel (I've played with the 5D many times) and I can then compare some shots at home. Treat them as I would my own images and see how the files make me feel when put through Lightroom.
 
The Nikon is the better camera IMO, and I'd even say the D750 is a better camera than the 5D3 (my options going to FF were D750 and 5D3. DR of the D750 is markedly better, and noise handling slightly better. Preferred the colours that the D750 rendered too, better skin tones. AF none too shabby either, I probably get 99+% hit rate taking runners using my 70-200mm f2.8 VRII at f2.8)

However, recently I have found myself seeing some of Canons lenses thinking "I wish Nikon did one of those", so this is something to think about. Also some of Canons comparative lenses are much cheaper, but then I don't know all the ranges of both so maybe there's some Nikon ones that are a lot cheaper.

As for the lenses you mentioned, the Nikon 50mm f1.8 is a fine lens (when stopped down a touch), but by the sounds of it you'd be better with the 85mm anyway. The f1.8 is a great lens, and sharper than its much more expensive f1.4 counterpart (although I prefer the rendering of the f1.4).

The Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VRII is a truly superb lens. Lovely rendering, really sharp and really fast AF. Yes it focus breathes, but I've never noticed it and only know about it because I've read it ;)

I'm surprised about ancient Mariners comment on the lens mount, I moved from Sony to Nikon and find the Nikon better.
 
Last edited:
You say you're after better AF and low light performance. I would suggest upgrading your lenses first. You've got an f/4 zoom, albeit a very nice f/4 zoom, it's still going to underperform in low light (in getting light to the sensor, and in focus tracking in low light). And then you've got a fifty quid piece of plastic with a dodgy construction and a rudimentary AF motor.
 
If you're thinking of the D810 then, as a lot of people found out with the D800, high quality lenses are essential since the 36MP sensor will show up any defects in the lenses.

It will also show up any defects in your own style of shooting, especially camera shake etc.

Plus the possible need to upgrade your computer if you don't already have a fast model with at least 16Gb of Ram and preferably an SSD as well.

It's never just about upgrading your camera.
.
 
Jayst84 said:
You say you're after better AF and low light performance. I would suggest upgrading your lenses first. You've got an f/4 zoom, albeit a very nice f/4 zoom, it's still going to underperform in low light (in getting light to the sensor, and in focus tracking in low light). And then you've got a fifty quid piece of plastic with a dodgy construction and a rudimentary AF motor.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply [emoji4]
I've already sold my Canon 60D so I'm body less and have to get a new one. You're right that my 70-200 is only f4 but that didn't get much use, let alone indoors. I mainly used the 50mm and the 17-55 2.8 IS, which aren't slow lenses. Granted the 50mm is cheap but you can't deny the 60D has poor AF compared to these newer FF options. I wasn't restricted by my lenses but by the ability of the ageing body.

To answer other comments, I've been reading similar opinions about the d810 sensor being unforgiving so it's something I'm bearing in mind, but thanks for letting me know. It's that type of info I wanted [emoji4]
My computer is the latest 15" MBP with SSD so I've no worries about that.
 
snerkler said:
I'm surprised about ancient Mariners comment on the lens mount, I moved from Sony to Nikon and find the Nikon better.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should try another body & see if the one I have isn't good.
 
Morph3ous said:
To answer other comments, I've been reading similar opinions about the d810 sensor being unforgiving so it's something I'm bearing in mind, but thanks for letting me know. It's that type of info I wanted
emoji4.png

My computer is the latest 15" MBP with SSD so I've no worries about that.
Click to expand...

I have recently changed to the D810 from the D750 and IMO I think it's a bit of a myth that the D810 is unforgiving. I'm ambulant disabled with dodgy shoulders, elbows and hands and for me, I just up the SS to compensate for any movement and I seem to be managing at present.

As for glass, I have an older 80-200mm f2.8 lens which is great if I need it, a 50mm f1.4 D lens and these seem to perform okay on the body and they can be picked up for not a lot of money along with the G lenses mentioned above. I even have a cheap Sigma 70-300mm APO lens which is a good lightweight option for me. I'm currently saving for a wide angle lens at present.

These couple of shots below were taken with the Sigma handheld, in not great conditions and through the back door glass. With better glass and a more abled bodied person taking the photographs they could possibly be better.

I just wanted to give my opinions as an owner, I must also say, the D810 was more of a GAS purchase and the D750 was an excellent camera.

Robin taken with Nikon D810 by Swansea Jack, on Flickr

Great Tit Portrait, testing D810 cropping facility. by Swansea Jack, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
they say the same thing about the sensor in the 5DS/R ... but unless you are into pixel peeping its a bit of a myth - EoD the higher resolution the sensor is the more detailit records and thus the more it is suceptible to showing focus errors or camera shake and other sloppy practice... but it certainly doesnt mean you can't take a sharp shot with one if you know what you are doing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top