Full frame Canon

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GordonM

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I’ve got an itch for a full frame Canon body, mainly for landscape / urban architecture, currently I’ve got a 7d MkIX which I use for wildlife. The big question is what body do I look at? Theoretically finance isn’t an issue (although justifying it to she who must be obeyed might be!) I own a Canon 10-22mm which I love using and if I went FF I might exchange for a Sigma 12-24mm. I had considered a 1d Mkiv as they are pretty cheap - but the 1.3x sensor takes me back to where I am with a 10-22mm. So any suggestions? My current thoughts are between a 5d mkiii or a mkiv.
 
The 5D4 is a significant step up over the 5D3 so that would be my choice. I've owned both.
 
Gaz J said:
The 5D4 is a significant step up over the 5D3 so that would be my choice. I've owned both.
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And can take the same battery as the 7D/7D2 so no new battery/charger ecosystem.
 
Me and several others on here have in the past tried to swap 6d mk 1 with 7d mk 2.

If I was you I would do that unless you want the 5d mk 3 AF system or want to spend thousands on a 5d mk 4.

The 1d mk 4 is not as good as any full frame canon for landscape except the 5d mk 1 I guess.
 
Are you on a 7D Mk1 or Mk2 ? Your post says "7d MkIX".
If you have a Mk1, then the 6D Mk1 will represent a huge gain in image quality. The 6D Mk2 would be even better. If it's the 7D Mk2, then the 6D Mk1 may possibly be a marginal step down in IQ, but the 6D Mk2 would be much better.

If money was no object, the 5D Mk4 would be the body to get. But assuming you have to justify the cost, then I'd look at the 6D Mk1 and 2 and the 5D3.
If you need fast AF, then go for either the 6D Mk2 or 5D3, if AF speed isn't an issue, then the 6D Mk1 will be fine.

As for lenses, you could get the 17-40mm f4L, which will get you just about as wide as the 10-22mm does on crop (equiv to 16mm). And budget wise this lens won't cost you so much as the newer (and better) 16-35mm f4 IS.
When I was on a crop Canon, I had the Sigma 10-20mm. I thought I would miss it changing to the 6D and 24-105mm, but seeing as 24mm gives the same angle of view as 15mm on a crop sensor, I don't miss it much and I like the long end of the lens for compressing the background.
 
Im on a 7d mkii - I failed to spot the iPad autocorrect! I was leaning towards a 5d mkiii as I plan on keeping the 7d for its wildlife reach. However I could p/x / sell it and go for the mkiv?
ABTog I’ve got a 24-105mm F4 L, so I was looking for something that was more in the 16mm wide area.
 
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I thought the 5D3 was pretty good. Traded it on for a 7D2 and regretted it every day. 6D1 was decent but the AF outside the centre point was woeful.

Traded my 6D1 and 1DX in for a 5D4 as I felt that it could fill several roles. Extra resolution was great for macro and close up allowing more flexibility with focusing distance. AF good enough to use as a back up wildlife camera. DR increase and shadow recovery way better than the 5D3. Also, for me, the fact that Canon incorporated the same basic custom controls which allowed more flexibility in the AF set up. Not so important as a landscape body.
 
Might also want to think about a shift/tilt lens for urban landscapes.
 
Landscapes and urban architecture.
You want my set up-Canon 5D Mk2+24mm TS-E Mk2+Manfrotto 190 with 410 geared head.
You would get that for less than the price of a 5DMk3/4 and the TS-E is very versatile now it can tilt and shift in two planes, add to that its very , very sharp.
 
I had a similar itch not that long ago, went from an 80D to 6D. I'm in the process of getting into Fuji at the moment (6D in classified) as my priorities are ever shifting. There is no dispute for me that Full Frame does offer an advantage and has a slightly different look somehow.

However, I don't regret the decision as it's something I felt I needed to do or as put 'an itch that needed scratching', I am now moving back to crop sensor in the knowledge that there are more important factors for my photography than sensor size in isolation. Sensor specs are one thing, for example the 7D is not ideal for landscape due to shadow recovery noise etc from what I've read, but if that sensor was physically bigger it doesn't necessarily make it better. Sensor technology seems to be more important than physical sensor size. For instance the 80D I had, had better shadow recovery than the 6D from my observation.

There is a lot more to it than that of course, just some of my experience. But as said, if it's a 'GASsy itch' you probably need to do it regardless, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the 5D 3 or4. That said, the 6D would be just as capable as the mk3 for Landscape and cheaper, mk4 has newer sensor tech I believe.
 
I switched to full frame late last year and it was going to be 6Dmkii, until I read the reviews. :wideyed:

I went for the 5Dmkiv, it's blown me away so far.
 
Just a thought but why not sell the 7D and get a Canon 1DX to do everything?

I use the 1DX and 7D2 and the 1DX is a significantly better wildlife camera, the "Reach" advantage is a myth unless conditions are just right (and the subject isn't moving too much) - how often does that happen? For landscapes etc the pixie count is a bit low but it certainly doesn't show up in A3 prints - do you print any larger? Add to this the significantly better AF than the alternatives and the fact that the 1DX is pretty reasonable these days - however it is still not light:)
 
johnf3f said:
Just a thought but why not sell the 7D and get a Canon 1DX to do everything?

I use the 1DX and 7D2 and the 1DX is a significantly better wildlife camera, the "Reach" advantage is a myth unless conditions are just right (and the subject isn't moving too much) - how often does that happen? For landscapes etc the pixie count is a bit low but it certainly doesn't show up in A3 prints - do you print any larger? Add to this the significantly better AF than the alternatives and the fact that the 1DX is pretty reasonable these days - however it is still not light:)
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Interesting, why do you keep the 7D2?
 
6d original image quality beats 7dii. If you want a cheap introduction to full frame canon that's your camera.

If you want to spend more and add some extra features but not improve image quality over 6d then look at 6dii.

Your other way of looking at it if you are budget limited is to chop in the 7dii and upgrade to either a 5d4 or a 5dsr.

Arguably the 5d4 can do it all very well, with extra features like touch screen etc.

The idea behind the 5dsr is if you are happy with your 7dii but just want wider (and sharper) then you gain those extra pixels. But when you want the reach you drop back in again for no loss at all...
 
johnf3f said:
Just a thought but why not sell the 7D and get a Canon 1DX to do everything?

I use the 1DX and 7D2 and the 1DX is a significantly better wildlife camera, the "Reach" advantage is a myth unless conditions are just right (and the subject isn't moving too much) - how often does that happen? For landscapes etc the pixie count is a bit low but it certainly doesn't show up in A3 prints - do you print any larger? Add to this the significantly better AF than the alternatives and the fact that the 1DX is pretty reasonable these days - however it is still not light:)
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Interesting, I was under the impression from reviews that the 7dii used the same af system as the 1dx? But had improved istr capability and better lowlight focus at -3ev.
 
Keeping your 7d makes sense if you have EF-S lenses too as those obviously aren't usable on FF, equivalent lenses on FF will set you back a lot more if you went for a 1D to cover it all.
 
Firstly, I notice that the OP @GordonM is not financially limited except possibly by SWMBO. I recommend a 5D Mark IV and this is why....

I shoot wildlife almost exclusively (certainly over 95%) and moved from a 70D (my first D-SLR) to a 7D Mark II soon after it was launched 3(?) years ago.

For wildlife the 7D2's 10 fps is very valuable for birds/animals in flight/action < 10 fps over 7 fps may not sound very much but in practice it is. I don't think that any 6D version offers that. Also, a crop body offers more reach and usually the central area on the sensor where the 7D2 scores lots of megapixels (if it matters to you) does not let it down. DON'T FORGET THE IMPORTANCE OF HIGH QUALITY CANON LENSES because it doesn't matter how good the sensor is if the delivered image is not so good.

As a wildlife photographer one always needs all the reach you can get and so last summer I bought a Canon 500mm F/4L II to add to my 100-400mm L II and 100mm Macro L. Because I found that I lost shooting opportunities while faffing around changing lenses I decided to buy an extra body and so I bought an EOS M5 + EF lens adapter which lives on my Canon Macro lens because I found the M5 too small and unbalanced to use on the 100-400mm and ridiculously unbalanced on the 500mm. I only shoot RAW and the image quality between the M5 and 7D2 is absolutely equal (check out my Flickr albums and draw your own conclusions). The compact M5 body is also very handy with my Canon 24-70mm F/4L occasionally but I much prefer D-SLR to mirrorless.

So, if you are still reading this, I then looked at which D-SLR body to buy and firstly decided that full-frame would be an extremely useful extra option. I seriously considered the 1DX 2 but the bulk and weight (extra to what I already carry in the field) decided me against in spite of the higher fps rate. As far as wildlife is concerned the 6D2 spec was a non-starter and so I bought a 5D Mark IV and it significantly adds scope to my EOS system.

Consequently I am able to have at hand various combos of Canon glass plus 7D2 or 5D4 bodies plus 1.4x or 2x Extenders. The 2x III gives great results on the 500mm but not on the 100-400mm.

There is no such thing as a perfect camera or perfect lens but for wildlife a 5D Mark V with 10 or more fps and a Canon 600mm DO L would get pretty close I reckon!

I hope this helps!

M5_7D2_0536.jpg
 
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The 10-22mm is the only ef-s lens I’ve got, so no biggie to change it.
 
GordonM said:
Im on a 7d mkii - I failed to spot the iPad autocorrect! I was leaning towards a 5d mkiii as I plan on keeping the 7d for its wildlife reach. However I could p/x / sell it and go for the mkiv?
ABTog I’ve got a 24-105mm F4 L, so I was looking for something that was more in the 16mm wide area.
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I have to say I went round the 7D2/5d3/6d loop trying to find a "1 Camera does all" solution and wound up with a 1dx2.
I now miss the reach of my 7D2 and regret trading two cameras for one.
 
ABTog said:
Are you on a 7D Mk1 or Mk2 ? Your post says "7d MkIX".
If you have a Mk1, then the 6D Mk1 will represent a huge gain in image quality. The 6D Mk2 would be even better. If it's the 7D Mk2, then the 6D Mk1 may possibly be a marginal step down in IQ, but the 6D Mk2 would be much better.

If money was no object, the 5D Mk4 would be the body to get. But assuming you have to justify the cost, then I'd look at the 6D Mk1 and 2 and the 5D3.
If you need fast AF, then go for either the 6D Mk2 or 5D3, if AF speed isn't an issue, then the 6D Mk1 will be fine.

As for lenses, you could get the 17-40mm f4L, which will get you just about as wide as the 10-22mm does on crop (equiv to 16mm). And budget wise this lens won't cost you so much as the newer (and better) 16-35mm f4 IS.
When I was on a crop Canon, I had the Sigma 10-20mm. I thought I would miss it changing to the 6D and 24-105mm, but seeing as 24mm gives the same angle of view as 15mm on a crop sensor, I don't miss it much and I like the long end of the lens for compressing the background.
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The 6d mk1 has much better sensor performance than the 7d mk2.
 
soupdragon said:
I have to say I went round the 7D2/5d3/6d loop trying to find a "1 Camera does all" solution and wound up with a 1dx2.
I now miss the reach of my 7D2 and regret trading two cameras for one.
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I went on the same quest and also ended up with a 1Dx2. Got a 1.4x III teleconverter to deal with the reach issue.
 
JohnM100 said:
I went on the same quest and also ended up with a 1Dx2. Got a 1.4x III teleconverter to deal with the reach issue.
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Yes I did the self same thing but the loss of a stop is frustrating.

If I could turn back time I'd now own a 7d2 and a 5dsr.
 
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Possibly should have done this earlier in the thread but, I’m not planning on selling the 7dii, unless I jump to a 1dxii (which I’m not sure I need) so an extra ff body seems to be the way forward. In a nutshell I’d like something that is full frame, preferably not as memory heavy as a 5ds/r (I don’t want to do massive prints, A3 maxi) but it seems to make sense to go higher mp than the 7dii for non wildlife- I no longer do sports! That suggests to me a straight fight been 5diii, 5div or 6dii? I have no interest/need for video so the 4K is totally irrelevant.
Lens wise I have:
EF-S 10-22mm - which will be sold for something similar ff
EF 24-105mm f4 L is
EF 100-400mm ii
EF 500mm f4 is
So problems about ff compatibility apart from the wide zoom.
Thanks so far for helping with suggestions thoughts and general clarification!
 
Out of the 5D3 and 6D I would go for the 6D as there is very little difference between the two except the focusing system and some better build quality, but you'll save a few hundred quid which could fund a 17-40L to go with the 6D.

But if you can afford the 5D4 then that is quite a step up it seems, but is a very different budget so you would expect that.

Edit: Just noticed you said. 6D2, I wouldn't bother with that if I were you, from all I've read it doesn't seem very good value for money.
 
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Craigus said:
Out of the 5D3 and 6D I would go for the 6D as there is very little difference between the two except the focusing system and some better build quality, but you'll save a few hundred quid which could fund a 17-40L to go with the 6D.

But if you can afford the 5D4 then that is quite a step up it seems, but is a very different budget so you would expect that.

Edit: Just noticed you said. 6D2, I wouldn't bother with that if I were you, from all I've read it doesn't seem very good value for money.
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Build on 5d3 and 6d is the same.

Agreed about the 6d2, get the 6d mk1. It's cheaper, doesn't have the improved AF of the mk 2 but has better and cleaner sensor performance, even though it's the previous generation.
 
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If you are keeping the 7dii the advantage of the 5d3 is that the layout of the body is 99% the same so your muscle memory in using them interchangeably will not be affected.

However, image quality wise it gives you nothing over the 6d, which is your cheapest option.

6dii adds a flippy screen which is an awesome thing for landscape and urban architecture, but no improvement in image quality.

Arguably if money is not an issue then the 5d4 is clearly the best on features and image quality by some margin, but you will likely never use your 7dii again once you’ve got the 5d4...It is the best camera out of the 3 and an easy choice if you genuinely are not considering budget.

The caveat to that is if you wanted to also buy one of Canon’s amazing TSe lenses or 11-24mm st the same time and the budget doesn’t allow one of them plus 5d4. In which case you then look at one of the cheaper bodies alongside one of those great lenses. Iq is better on any of them than 7dii so you won’t be dissapppointed.
 
Having read others comments I would keep the 7D2 as it's re-sale/trade value will not be great.
I also feel you will miss the reach your lenses are afforded with a crop sensor.
As far as outright image quality is concerned the 6d mk1 is fantastic and a good buy right now.
The 5d3 is better built from an environmental point of view and has a better focus system than the 6d mk1 but there is no real difference in IQ.

As a final thought. The 1dx2 is built like a tank, as close to weather proof as it gets, is blazingly fast and has the best DR of any canon camera to date. (as far as I know).
 
If you're happy to pay the price get the 5D4. You won't regret it. I use mine with both a 100-400 MkII and a 500 f4 with a 1.4 on both. Image quality is excellent. The x2 on the 5D4 doesn't seem as good as on the 1DX2 though. With the bigger sensor you effectively get a bit of extra reach. I shoot macro from half as far away again now as I did when I used my 1DX2, throw 10meg away and still get great images. I virtually never shoot below ISO 800 on it and happily print A3+ from ISO 3200 files.
 
odd jim said:
Build on 5d3 and 6d is the same.
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I already told you before the 6d has plastic LCD`s and the 5D3 has toughened glass, you keep putting this false statement that build is the same.

And yes toughened glass makes a difference although I'm sure you will argue that plastic is just as good or better.
 
The plastic viewing screen is the only thing I'm not all that keen on with my Canon 6D, however, it's designed to be a light camera (for a FF DSLR) and I imagine that putting a big lump of toughened glass on the back of it might have compromised that aim, so I'll put up with trying to wipe the nose-prints off it each time I use it! Other than that very minor niggle I think it's an excellent camera and would agree with the description I once read about it, which said something along the lines of it being 'a triumph of performance over specification'.

I find it has a habit of consistently producing very nice looking photos and clings on well in lower lighting conditions. Overall, I think it's a rather underrated camera, probably because some people never looked beyond the 'on paper' spec sheet and actually tried one in the real world? I bought mine in 2014 and I'm glad now that I didn't stump up the extra for a 5D Mk3, as the 5D Mk4 seems quite a bit better and it would have made me want to upgrade because of that! Instead, I'm still happy with my 6D and the various film cameras I have. Anyway, Gordon, best of luck finding a camera that suits your requirements. (y)
 
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Mr Badger said:
Overall, I think it's a rather underrated camera, probably because some people never looked beyond the 'on paper' spec sheet and actually tried one in the real world? I bought mine in 2014 and I'm glad now that I didn't stump up the extra for a 5D Mk3, as the 5D Mk4 seems quite a bit better and it would have made me want to upgrade because of that!
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I'm glad you are happy with your 6D, I'm happy with my 5D3 and I too have no plans to upgrade to the mk4 even though I have no doubts that "on paper" it's a much better camera, but "real world" price is what's stopping me :)
and as you say it's what the owner is happy with that is the most important factor.

Matt
 
soupdragon said:
Having read others comments I would keep the 7D2 as it's re-sale/trade value will not be great.
I also feel you will miss the reach your lenses are afforded with a crop sensor.
As far as outright image quality is concerned the 6d mk1 is fantastic and a good buy right now.
The 5d3 is better built from an environmental point of view and has a better focus system than the 6d mk1 but there is no real difference in IQ.

As a final thought. The 1dx2 is built like a tank, as close to weather proof as it gets, is blazingly fast and has the best DR of any canon camera to date. (as far as I know).
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6d has the same build and sealing as the 5d3.
 
GTG said:
I already told you before the 6d has plastic LCD`s and the 5D3 has toughened glass, you keep putting this false statement that build is the same.

And yes toughened glass makes a difference although I'm sure you will argue that plastic is just as good or better.
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Oh yes, this oddity. I can't see this as a negative point when we talk about build. The screen hasn't a mark on it in nearly 5 years of use, and has fared better than my glass screened bodies. I'm not sure why this would be a point that might sway a buyer?

The materials (bar the top plate to enable GPS and wi-if transmission) and weather sealing gasket(s) are the same. For me that's what people really refer to when they talk about 'build' (not what the factory screen *protector* is made from).
 
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odd jim said:
The materials (bar the top plate to enable GPS and wi-if transmission) and weather sealing gasket(s) are the same. For me that's what people refer to when they talk about 'build'.
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What a lot of people mean when they talk about ‘build’ is in fact ‘heft’. Personally I bought the 6d because I couldn’t bear the idea of a camera even heavier than my 7d, I was suffering some arthritis in my hands at the time. I’d love a 2nd card slot, but I don’t see it as worth the extra weight of the later 5d over the 6.
 
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