Frustrated, need to learn a PP program, any advice ?

scott199

scott199

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hi peeps.

i really need to get to grips with some kind of sensible PP program if i am to take anything past point and shoot type pics.

I have tried quite a few times, but seem to be that you need to know the basics of these programs before you can really start to learn.

I am personally better if i can see and try rather than reading about it, tried many a tutorial and video, just nothing ever stays in.

So i am going to bite the bullet and go some where to learn, coarse or college or private tutor/assistant.

1. Can anyone help me with, best program to learn ??

2. Any course you can advice or suggest please ??

If im going to do this i may as well do it properly.

thanks.
 
I think photoshop is generally accepted as the best, but it's a complex bit of software and takes a bit of work to learn, as well as being quite expensive to start
Personally, I strarted with picassa, moved to lightroom, then got elements when I discovered layers and now working on cs5
Found that path a natural progression each time and watched lots of youtube when trying to get layers working.
Pretty sure adobe still do trial periods, so you can see how it works and if you like it
I'd start with lightroom and see how you go, I love it
 
I know you said you didn't like books but I can't recommend Lightroom and the Scott Kelby book on Lightroom enough. It takes you through every step and makes it so easy to learn. Another good reason for getting it is that it tells and shows you a lot of what Lightroom can do that's a bit below the surface that you may never think of asking about.
 
Thanks, i have had picaso, gimp, and the trial version of most.

i would really like to learn the foundations and that should give me a perfect base to elarn from.
 
If you can see your way to getting a copy of Photoshop, it really is the industry standard for image editing.

Lightroom is a great program too, but it's mainly a RAW editing program and while you can do some more basic image editing in Lightroom, it's mainly used for RAW adjustment such as levels, curves, sharpening, noise reduction... although you can use adjustment brushes for localised adjustment too... also tons of plug ins available.

Ideally, a combination of Lightroom for RAW editing and prep, and Photoshop for pixel editing would be the best. That's pretty much industry standard.

Nothing from Adobe comes cheap though.

Photoshop elements is a great start however. And the RAW software that came with your Nikon will enable you to adjust and prep your RAW files for further editing.


If you want to learn though... you may as well learn what the industry uses... and that's Lightroom (and also Aperture if you use a Mac) and Photoshop.
 
scott199 said:
Thanks, i have had picaso, gimp, and the trial version of most.

i would really like to learn the foundations and that should give me a perfect base to elarn from.
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Which one did you enjoy using most? I'd go for that
I done a class at the photo society I'm a member, but the teaching was a bit random and the old fella doing it got himself confused more often than not, which is why youtube is your friend. Find a good tutorial, then watch, practice, watch again until you get it
I'd like to do a full course, but often find I just dont get it until I do it myself.
Its like shooting, practise makes perfect
Maybe I'm lucky, as I quite enjoy sitting playing with images, almost as much as out shooting
 
PSILVERMAN said:
I know you said you didn't like books but I can't recommend Lightroom and the Scott Kelby book on Lightroom enough. It takes you through every step and makes it so easy to learn. Another good reason for getting it is that it tells and shows you a lot of what Lightroom can do that's a bit below the surface that you may never think of asking about.
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Hi and thanks for the reply from everyone, im happy to try a book if it is really step by step.

is this the one you are recommending ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photoshop-Lightroom-Digital-Photographers-Voices/dp/0321819586

Pookeyhead said:
If you can see your way to getting a copy of Photoshop, it really is the industry standard for image editing.

Lightroom is a great program too, but it's mainly a RAW editing program and while you can do some more basic image editing in Lightroom, it's mainly used for RAW adjustment such as levels, curves, sharpening, noise reduction... although you can use adjustment brushes for localised adjustment too... also tons of plug ins available.

Ideally, a combination of Lightroom for RAW editing and prep, and Photoshop for pixel editing would be the best. That's pretty much industry standard.

Nothing from Adobe comes cheap though.

Photoshop elements is a great start however. And the RAW software that came with your Nikon will enable you to adjust and prep your RAW files for further editing.


If you want to learn though... you may as well learn what the industry uses... and that's Lightroom (and also Aperture if you use a Mac) and Photoshop.
Click to expand...


Thanks that is exactly what im looking for, no point learning something basic, may as well jump in head first and go for the programs that will last me through.

This will sound a bit strange, but my 15 year old son is doing Graphic design as a course at school, so i can happily get the student discount versions, i know they are still £££'s but he will use them at some stage aswell.

I know its a bit weird asking for help here when my son can use them all, but like any 15 year old, spending hours teaching the old man how to use these just is never going to happen, :thinking: it all comes so easy to him and he just cant understand why i find it hard. :shrug:

I am hoping, when i have the basics, he will then show me the layers side of things. :thumbs:
 
Personally, I wouldn't go near the full Photoshop. It's a massive programme, primarily intended for the graphics and repro industries. And expensive. Get Lightroom - now the industry standard for photographers.

LR's full title is Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and it's designed as a full editing, workflow and library management system specifically for us. Anything you can't do in LR (very little, mainly layers in PS) is handled by appropriate plug-ins, as and when. Most folks that have switched to LR now use nothing else.

The basic stuff in LR is easy and intuitive, but to get the most from it you really need a book, eg Scott Kelby. Read the early sections to make sure you're doing the basics efficiently and not missing any easy tricks, then just dip in and out via the index etc when you want to do something more advanced.

Try the free demo download :thumbs:

Edit: LR is also non-destructive - just upload your files (strong preference for Raws) and they remain forever secure and untouched. All changes are automatically saved on a tagged data file so you can go back and make any changes, modify the output/sharpening spec etc, any time without starting from scratch.
 
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LOL. Just downloading the trial lr4 now.

Can get lr4 and cs6 extended for £220.

Is it worth getting to learn both or should I just stick with lr4 ?
 
Ho hum for the "popularity prize" - down the years I've tried several times to get to grips with the ludicrously overpriced Photoshop and it's assorted cut-down versions - each time I have given up in disgust at the totally unintuitive way it works.
After trying a great many programmes I've found that I can do all I need using "free" software - Digikam, Darktable, Raw Therapee, and the superb "Gimp" (all available for Linux, some also available for Windoze) - I also use the free "bundled" raw manipulators that come with the camera.

Having started "the hard way" in the days of film, and done my own processing, I am somewhat repelled by so much "over-Photoshopped" work that's displayed these days - frame it right, expose it right, press the button at the decisive moment, and as far as possible don't "faff"....
 
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scott199 said:
LOL. Just downloading the trial lr4 now.

Can get lr4 and cs6 extended for £220.

Is it worth getting to learn both or should I just stick with lr4 ?
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Stick with LR. You won't need PS for a while, possibly never. You need a book though. Scott Kelby is easy reading.
 
Will do
 
does anyone know if the spiral bound version is available in the uk ???

being a bit picky, but i think it may get a lot of use
 
Sounds to me that you'd get on with Paint Shop Pro, every tool tells you how to use it in the status bar, unlike Photoshop where you have to already know! It's a bit better laid out than photoshop, and unless you want to get into some really advanced features, will do anything you want it to. The only thing lacking is the inbuilt RAW facilities, which are naff. I've been using SIlkypix for that, but have just aquired Lightroom to keep track of my images and do the initial raw developments.
 
I like scott kelbys stuff
photoshop is great but if you just want to edit your snaps and get the bug then what about snapseed
really really simple and will show you wants possible
 
LR4 is a tad over £50 on adobe, so think i might as well get that, been looking at the scott kelby book and website, looks good.

So will get it when i find a hardback or preferably the binder version. (if anyone knows where to get it in the uk ? )

to be fair i've cheated a bit and downloaded quite a few presets for lr4 from the scott kelby website :D been playing and they do help loads, even if its jsut to see what other use.
 
Scott,

You could do a lot worse than trying ViewNX2 that came free with your camera. It is a remarkably capable program :)

There is a new version available for free download on the Nikon UK web site that appears to run faster than the one that will be on the disc that came with your camera.
 
thanks that is what I've tried.

Got the lr4 trialnow, like gatt fact I can steal presets. :)

I know its cheating, but I want to take pics not spend hours on a comp, so the presets work well for me.

Also ordered the Scottk kelby book last night.
 
:plusone: for Lightroom. I do 99% of my PP with LR and rarely go into Photoshop. LR is simpler to use and feels more intuitive which PS definitely is not.
 
On the (rare) occasions that I need to do any PP, I find that PSE (PhotoShop Elements) does all I want and more. I've played with CS and find PSE easier to use, in fact, I often go back to version 1 or 2 rather than the more modern versions I have!
 
Do try both LR & PSE. Lots say LR is more intuitive than PSE but I find quite the opposite, and, although I have both, use PSE almost exclusively. Everyone is different, and what us intuitive for one is impenetrable for another.
 
MadWoman said:
Do try both LR & PSE. Lots say LR is more intuitive than PSE but I find quite the opposite, and, although I have both, use PSE almost exclusively. Everyone is different, and what us intuitive for one is impenetrable for another.
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Oh thanks, never thought of that, got lr4 trial, so will get pse and try them side by side, lr4 does seem fairly easy
 
Beware of using adobe PS or LR they are big cumbersome things that do things to photographs that are far and beyond what is needed by some one who just wants to take photos and do any necessary PP.I have used both and dumped them.Go and look at FastStone (It's free) it is free and a damd sight easier to use than adobe.It does just about everything most people need.Great software.
just some of what it does:
CC.
Sharpen.inc USM.
Lighten ect.
Clone.
Resize.
Straighten.
Crop.
watermark.
text.
red eye removal.
Batch for most of the above.
and lots more.

It's all easy to do not like adobe. :thumbs:
 
kestral said:
Beware of using adobe PS or LR they are big cumbersome things that do things to photographs that are far and beyond what is needed by some one who just wants to take photos and do any necessary PP.I have used both and dumped them.Go and look at FastStone (It's free) it is free and a damd sight easier to use than adobe.It does just about everything most people need.Great software.
just some of what it does:
CC.
Sharpen.inc USM.
Lighten ect.
Clone.
Resize.
Straighten.
Crop.
watermark.
text.
red eye removal.
Batch for most of the above.
and lots more.

It's all easy to do not like adobe. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

You get out what you put in like anything really.
 
It depends how far you want to take your photographic knowledge and ability. The actual taking of a photo is only one part of the process. Learning how to finish your image - presenting it in the best possible way - is every bit as important as learning how to compose and and expose correctly. You need different techniques for web or print, for instance.

I have never understood people who buy expensive kit, spend years learning how to use it, and then turn out poor photos because they don't bother to learn how to edit. It's like buying a track car, learning everything about racing technique, and then continuously loosing because you can't be arsed to to clean the windscreen and can't see properly.

Editing takes time and dedication to learn, just like every other aspect of photography. And is every bit as vital as all the other bits.

Doesn't much matter what you use to begin with, as it doesn't much matter which camera you use to learn, as long as you use something that allows you to make the decisions, not whoever wrote the software. Me, I'd say Photoshop Elements is a bloody good place to start, and thoroughly recommend the Kelby books to go with it.

Try getting in touch with your local college about courses. A lot will have something like a ten-week evening course starting in January.
 
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Thanks. I understand what you mean.

Im not expecting to ever make money from this, I just what to look at my pics and be happy, and I know I need to learn this side as well.

The college course is a great idea.
 
I use Lightroom for more batch stuff, as its a lot quicker to edit a large amount of images, and photoshop for client work.

For you, I'd suggest Lightroom only. I'm sure your son will be able to pickup free copies of software anyhow...
 
lynda.com

subscription is about $25 a month, so a couple of months won't break the bank and the tutorials are great, there is also a MASSIVE amount of other stuff.
 
scott199 said:
Thanks. I understand what you mean.

Im not expecting to ever make money from this, I just what to look at my pics and be happy, and I know I need to learn this side as well.

The college course is a great idea.
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with making money! This is about how easy you want things to be for you in the future.Unless you want to blow mind trying to learn 50% of want Adobe can do and pay out money for the effort. Just use free software.FastStone have you even downloaded it and looked at it.It does not cost you anything!:bonk:
 
kestral said:
It's nothing to do with making money! This is about how easy you want things to be for you in the future.Unless you want to blow mind trying to learn 50% of want Adobe can do and pay out money for the effort. Just use free software.FastStone have you even downloaded it and looked at it.It does not cost you anything!:bonk:
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No not yet, my idea was to find out what will last me in the future, and just learn that.

Lr4 seems to be the recommended program, so thought that would a good a place as any to start.

I'm trying not to confuse myself in the future by learning something now and finding I need more later.
 
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