Freezing a jump shot

[marts_uk]

I've started taking "jump" shots on most shoots now, but wonder if there is anyway of freezing everything just using my Bowens Lights.

Take this example, the body's are sharp, but the feet are blurred


Forecast Jump by marts_uk, on Flickr

I use a HiLite with 2 x 400w Bowens inside and 2 x 500w Bowens lights on the front.

Would I have to revert to speedlites instead?

thanks

 

[Garry Edwards]

Is that really a problem? IMO blurred feet (or blurred SOMETHING) makes the shots look much more real.

If it is a problem for you, then AFAIK the only solutions (currently) are hotshoe flashes at low power or the Strobeam or Alien Bees Einstein at low power. But all that will change soon, with new IGBT lights and other solutions from leading manufacturers not far away.

 

[marts_uk]

Hi Garry

Its not a problem, I just wondered if speedlites were the other option - in which case i'll stick with the bowens as like you say it makes the shot more real.

 

[HoppyUK]

Flash duration will be shortest at full power. A bit of blur can look good, but it's nice top be able to control it if needs be. Obvious choice would be one of the Bowens Pro versions that are significantly faster, if not lightning quick.

Ultimate solution is IGBT controlled flash, either hot-shoe or the brands Garry mentions, but bear in mind that you have to turn things down to quarter power or less before durations get really short.

 

[The23rdman]

Flash duration will be shortest at full power. A bit of blur can look good, but it's nice top be able to control it if needs be. Obvious choice would be one of the Bowens Pro versions that are significantly faster, if not lightning quick.

Ultimate solution is IGBT controlled flash, either hot-shoe or the brands Garry mentions, but bear in mind that you have to turn things down to quarter power or less before durations get really short.

Flash duration shortest at full power, Richard? Typo?

 

[ah5168]

I have had to take a few shots of things in mid air and found studio lights are always to slow. Speed lights work really well providing you can get the studio dark enough.

Or you could take the background outside and shoot in sun light.

 

[DemiLion]

Flash duration shortest at full power, Richard? Typo?

He's talking about motion blur caused by flash tail off at lower power setting I believe!

 

[HoppyUK]

Flash duration shortest at full power, Richard? Typo?

No typo, I was referring to the OP's Bowens studio heads. Conventional studio heads always deliver shortest duration at max output* and by conventional that means everything except the couple of brands Garry mentions, Strobeam and Einstein, that are basically giant IGBT hot-shoe guns.

IGBT seems to be the next big thing in studio flash. It has some fundamental advantages, though as technology currently stands they struggle to make the same light output as conventional heads, Ws for Ws. And the durations only start to get significantly shorter when the power is turned down a couple fo stops or more.

IGBT works in a completely different way, and controls brightness by cutting the flash pulse short after enough light has been delivered, resulting in very short durations at lower outputs. Studio heads basically just put out a lower power flash as you turn them down, and the result of that is the effective flash duration actually gets longer.

There's been a bit of debate about these things recently if anyone wants to search. One key point to note is that manufacturer's quoted studio flash durations expressed as t.5 times are very misleading. My best estimate is that t.5 should be multiplied by at least 2x to get the equivalent in terms of shutter speed action stopping potential.

* another exception to that is studio style heads with multiple different size capacitors, mostly portable battery-powered jobbies. Smaller capacitors give shorter durations that bigger ones that are part-charged.

PS Of the conventional studio heads I've tested, and that's quite a lot of them, the Elinchrom BX250Ri had the shortest durations of the affordable stuff this side of Profoto - roughly half the durations of the Bowens GM500R (though I didn't test the Pro version).

 

[The23rdman]

Interesting info, thank you.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Phil Harbord has just published a couple of reviews of IGBT based flashguns on his site.

It's got a lot of science stuff in there - oscilloscopes and everything.

And very usefully he also reviews a Lencarta Ultra Pro.

http://www.philharbordphotography.co.uk/reviews.html

 

[Garry Edwards]

Phil Harbord has just published a couple of reviews of IGBT based flashguns on his site.

It's got a lot of science stuff in there - oscilloscopes and everything.

And very usefully he also reviews a Lencarta Ultra Pro.

http://www.philharbordphotography.co.uk/reviews.html

Interesting and helpful. Not particularly scientific though, he arrived at his colour temperature figures using software instead of the standard colour temperature meter...

You'll have seen that I did actually suggest the Strobeam as a possible solution for the O.P. I've no doubt that IGBT provides a real improvement over 'conventional' technology when really short flash durations and rapid recycling is important, but with the first generation flashes there are some major limitations...
1. Low maximum power. I'm told that the absolute maximum is limited to 500Ws. This becomes a problem when short flash durations are needed because the power needs to be reduced to at least 1/4, maybe more, which doesn't leave a lot of power in the studio and hardly any when the flash is used on location and needs to fight against ambient light.
2. Because of the technology employed in these particular units, they only actually deliver about half of the actual power to start with. I'm sure you know the reason for this. Your tester picked up on the fact but not on the reason for it, it's clearly shown in this oscilloscope trace.
A couple of interesting points raised in these tests - can you tell us the benefits of the FP mode? And can you tell us the actual accessory fitting used on the DL250? I'm sure that buyers/potential buyers would love to know how to increase the versatility buy buying modifiers.

 

[HoppyUK]

Phil Harbord has just published a couple of reviews of IGBT based flashguns on his site.

It's got a lot of science stuff in there - oscilloscopes and everything.

And very usefully he also reviews a Lencarta Ultra Pro.

http://www.philharbordphotography.co.uk/reviews.html

Some good reading in there Jonathan. He knows his stuff, which sad to say, is a pleasant change these days!

Interesting for anyone wanting to see the differences in flash durations between conventional studio heads and IGBT designs.

 

[HoppyUK]

Interesting and helpful. Not particularly scientific though, he arrived at his colour temperature figures using software instead of the standard colour temperature meter...

This is the method suggested in one of your articles Garry And I prefer it because it's more real world, and you can also detect the green/magenta shift*. And anyway, you're the only person I know that actually has a colour meter!

*I noticed this in most of my tests for Advanced Photographer magazine, but it wasn't that significant and as space was tight, left it out. Does your Minolta meter do that too?

You'll have seen that I did actually suggest the Strobeam as a possible solution for the O.P. I've no doubt that IGBT provides a real improvement over 'conventional' technology when really short flash durations and rapid recycling is important, but with the first generation flashes there are some major limitations...
1. Low maximum power. I'm told that the absolute maximum is limited to 500Ws. This becomes a problem when short flash durations are needed because the power needs to be reduced to at least 1/4, maybe more, which doesn't leave a lot of power in the studio and hardly any when the flash is used on location and needs to fight against ambient light.
2. Because of the technology employed in these particular units, they only actually deliver about half of the actual power to start with. I'm sure you know the reason for this. Your tester picked up on the fact but not on the reason for it, it's clearly shown in this oscilloscope trace.
A couple of interesting points raised in these tests - can you tell us the benefits of the FP mode? And can you tell us the actual accessory fitting used on the DL250? I'm sure that buyers/potential buyers would love to know how to increase the versatility buy buying modifiers.

What is the reason Garry?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I suggested this method as an alternative to actually measuring colour temperature, for people who don't have one - but nothing comes really close to actual measurement. There are different Minolta meters for different purposes, some excel at one job, say flash measurement, but are relatively inaccurate when measuring continuous lighting, as an example. And different meters have differing measurement capabilities. Mine can certainly indicate colour shifts, as mired values.

What is the reason Garry?

The reason shows up clearly in the oscilloscope trace (try comparing it to the trace of a 'conventional' flash head, but if I go into details here someone is bound to attack my motives, someone always does) even though the answer only explains the reason for the reduced delivered power and isn't in any way critical of the product.

Unfortunately, any technical explanations from me are invariably misinterpreted by some people

 

[JonathanRyan]

Interesting and helpful. Not particularly scientific though, he arrived at his colour temperature figures using software instead of the standard colour temperature meter...

Don't worry - I'm not going to get into an argument about whether using a method you disapprove of for one test invalidates all the testing going on. Anybody can make their own conclusions when test method and results are quoted like this.

A couple of interesting points raised in these tests - can you tell us the benefits of the FP mode? And can you tell us the actual accessory fitting used on the DL250? I'm sure that buyers/potential buyers would love to know how to increase the versatility buy buying modifiers.

Sure.

1. Benefits of FP mode. I really have no idea. I know what it's supposed to do (provide an easy way to access a very short duration burst of flash at a constant power AND allow incredibly fast "recycling" times*) but obviously the tests show you can get even better results via other methods. I guess it's a nice option. I've been using a similar light for a couple of years now and have never felt the need to use FP mode on it.

* yes it's not really recycling but it kind of works like it is.

2. The accessory fitting on the 250....it has a brolly mount. Allowing you to use a wide range of umbrella style modifiers including shoot throughs, reflectives and also umbrella style soft boxes. It does of course pretty much limit you to soft light. Some users have reported good results adapting the mount using a Bowens s style adapter and a Dremel but obviously that isn't officially supported.

The accessory fitting on the G5 is a Bowen compatible s-style mount. Allowing you to use modifiers from an enormous range of manufactures. Including Bowens, Lencarta and of course Strobeam.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Don't worry - I'm not going to get into an argument about whether using a method you disapprove of for one test invalidates all the testing going on. Anybody can make their own conclusions when test method and results are quoted like this.

I disapprove of it because it isn't the most accurate or scientific method, but I didn't in any way suggest that it

invalidates all the testing going on

And anyway, you're the only person I know that actually has a colour meter!

Colour temperature meters aren't needed by most people, but Commercial photographers sometimes have to work to dead accurate colour temperatures. Just bear in mind that a simple softbox of the very best quality can't be guaranteed not to become 'warm' after just 2 years, and this can cause major problems. Cheap ones are often way out to start with, and even if they start off well, they can yellow after just a few weeks. Richard, you may recall commenting on one of my own photos, correctly pointing out that the colour temperature was wrong from one of the softboxes - it was a simple product shot and I didn't bother you use the colour temperature meter - and I should have done That's what happens when a meter isn't used. That colour difference wouldn't have been noticeable in most portraits.

Back on topic: What really matters with colour temperature is consistency, shot to shot, and consistency between different power settings. The 'Strobeam' lights are pretty consistent, shot to shot.

2. The accessory fitting on the 250....it has a brolly mount. Allowing you to use a wide range of umbrella style modifiers including shoot throughs, reflectives and also umbrella style soft boxes. It does of course pretty much limit you to soft light. Some users have reported good results adapting the mount using a Bowens s style adapter and a Dremel but obviously that isn't officially supported.

I'm confused now... I'm pretty sure that when I looked at the 250 model it had a removable reflector, which is why I asked you what the fitting is. Am I wrong on this?

 

[JonathanRyan]

I'm pretty sure that when I looked at the 250 model it had a removable reflector, which is why I asked you what the fitting is. Am I wrong on this?

Yes of course you can remove it. It makes it even smaller for packing. It also allows you to use it with a parabolic umbrella.

Given the limited number of ways of economically joining 2 round bits of metal together and allowing them to be removed I'm sure it will match another design. As you know it saves enormous amounts of money to use standard fittings when manufacturing things.

Most people are using them as ultra portable lights and seem very happy with umbrella style modifiers. Personally I prefer the flexibility of the G5. Given they use the same battery and same control system it works really well as a mix and match.

 

[Richard King]

When you actually fire the shutter makes a difference too. If you jump up, at the highest point, you are neither moving up or down. you are for a split second essentially motionless

Of course if the subjects are arm waving too, that makes things more tricky

For a cheap option, as you are shooting on a white background, in principle, apart from possible colour temp issues, I cant see a reason why you couldn't use a couple of speed lights on stands to light the subject, and the same set up you are currently using to light the background

For an expensive option, move to the pro-photo gear, or for a smaller investment the Alien bees Einstein heads

There is a third way (I can feel Garry getting more agitated as I type) - that is to use continuous lighting (lots of it) and a faster shutter speed. It will work, but throws a whole load of different issues in the mix

 

[HoppyUK]

When you actually fire the shutter makes a difference too. If you jump up, at the highest point, you are neither moving up or down. you are for a split second essentially motionless

Of course if the subjects are arm waving too, that makes things more tricky

For a cheap option, as you are shooting on a white background, in principle, apart from possible colour temp issues, I cant see a reason why you couldn't use a couple of speed lights on stands to light the subject, and the same set up you are currently using to light the background

To freeze everything, all flashes must be at the same fast duration. If the background lights are longer, they will blow anything too fast.

For an expensive option, move to the pro-photo gear, or for a smaller investment the Alien bees Einstein heads

There is a third way (I can feel Garry getting more agitated as I type) - that is to use continuous lighting (lots of it) and a faster shutter speed. It will work, but throws a whole load of different issues in the mix

I don't think there are continuous lights on the planet that will allow you to shoot action at say 1/2000sec at a reasonable aperture and decent ISO. The brightest affordable lights by far that I've tried are the Lencarta Quads, and one of those at 1m will give you 1/125sec at f/5.6, ISO 400. So you'd need 16 of those...