Free range chickens only by 2012

Vinny

Vinny

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Seen the news? Been watching Channel 4's Hugh programme?

News just said 63% of all egg sales in the UK are from battery farms and not free range - I never knew that.

Don't agree with the battery farms myself - any views?
 
i've been watching Hugh's chicken run, i know how the industry is but have always been 'ignorant' towards it in a way, i'm not a big chicken eater anyway, however watching chicken run has saddened me and i imagine a lot of people. I don't understand people saying free range chickens are expensive, because they are not, it's just these speed processed chickens are cheap.

I hope the general public do act on this show and make way for the supermarkets to not stock these cruelly produced chickens.
 
Actually it's not free range but "Barn " kept.

Still a large number of chickens but all on ground level and can at least walk around.

I only buy free range and believe they taste better.
 
You have to look for the ones approved by the soil association. Those places (I know waitrose sells them) have to allow their chickens outside with more than one exit. Many places just put one door in and the alpha chicken makes it so all the other chickens can't leave. They also have a bigger square footage requirement. It isn't perfect but it really is better for the bird.

In America we don't realy have "free range" only cage free which although better isn't much so.
 
Nice one Vinny ... :thumbs: ... been watching this myself and, although we already only buy organic free range I was stunned at just how absolutely disgraceful and cruel the mass produced chicken process is ... :eek::eek::eek:

If anyone is interested in joining Hugh's very worthwhile campaign you can sign up at his Chicken Out web site and recommend it to friends ... :shrug: ... he has nearly 50K signed up already ... including me ... :D

There is also a lot of other information about the whole chicken farming practices that makes very interesting ... and some shocking ... items ... ;)

On a similar tack there is another programme on Channel BBC Three, after Chicken Run, called Kill it, Cook it, Eat it presented by Julia Bradbury ... it endeavours to show the 'humane' side of animal farming from cradle to grave ... as it were ... :suspect:


Hands up who is going vegetarian ... :thinking:


:p
 
^^ foodpoison is correct, A long time ago I worked visiting a lot of farms and my mum was also a bird welfare officer before she retired. There are bad sides to free range farming aswell - people often imagine a happy chicken with plenty of room to roam around and play outside when they want lol Free range barns are quite tightly packed and the smaller birds often get pushed to the back, trampled and starve to death, Farmers walk them daily to pull the dead. Both types of chicken have been bred for many years to live for only 72weeks and do nothing other than produce food for us.

It is difficult but how else are we to feed so many people? if everyone was vegetarian they would need to consume even more food to get the same amounts of protein/vitamins etc.. that we get from farmed animals/products. Food for vegetarians takes up vast amouts of land to produce and lots of trees have be felled all over the world to make room for this. Sorry going off topic :) and a huge debate.

Technology has improved battery farms quite a lot and many are much better than the ones shown for shock tactics, every piece of propaganda against farming I have seen is not representive of the professional farmers in this country.
 
foodpoison said:
I doubt the free range chickens are THAT much more humane.
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Battery farmed chickens are dumped in the barn as 1 day old chicks, they have no stimulation, no daylight, they simply eat, drink and sleep, because of the sheer amount of chicks in the farm (Hugh's is approximately 1/5th the size of a normal one), they are uncleaned so the chicks simply re - consume their own **** and faeces several times over in their short 39 day life. Chicks are weighed routinely to make sure they are growing fast enough, if they aren't they are simply culled by a quick snapping of the neck. By about 20 days old, battery farmed chickens can no longer take even their own weight on their legs and they have NO space whatsoever to move in. now tell me that's not cruel?

If anything, It's almost as cruel as the way Foie gras is produced.

Free range chickens have a much easier life, they see daylight, they have stimulants such as hay bails, footballs, they have luxuries such as grass to play with, they even have space to walk around, they have a longer life too, and they can enjoy it.

Either way, i know which i'll be buying in future :)
 
foodpoison said:
I doubt the free range chickens are THAT much more humane.
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This is the whole problem in the first place.

Chickens/hens/all live foodstock is NOT human.

We are, by our very own development, a hunter so I cannot stand all this 'cruelty to animals' and that 'they have rights' mumbo jumbo. You ask the poor starving kids in Africa about animal rights.

They are (animals, not the kids in Africa) bred to be eaten or worked, then eaten, thats HUMANE.

Ask a shark if he stops a shoal of fish to see if they have been swimming near sewage plants.

Human rights first please.

My opinion.
 
Battery or free range hens all come from the same hatcherys. So the day old chicks come from the same place. The lifespan of laying hens is around 72weeks, that's how you get different sized eggs.

Pro Battery farms have computer controlled shutters to let light in, auto feed the birds etc.. All birds are constantly checked throughout the day by people walking the battery's.

Mass free range farms are not like the ones you have described, I have been in many across the country. They are barns that are filled with chickens, they can't just go outside when they want because of disease control, weather etc... The chicken do have more room to move, but we are talking inches not several feet. Many get trampled, pushed to the back and are unable to reach the feeding areas because of bigger birds. They simply stand there all day on the floor or perched on beam, eat, crap and lay eggs. They don't wander around playing tag and ruffling each others feathers.

I am not saying battery farming is a good thing, it's not, but please don't believe the bull that free range hens have a life of riley. They are there to produce as many eggs as possible, with the correct colour shells.
 
There was one thing I noticed last night on the programme which puzzled me greatly. The spokesman for Tesco that Hugh F-W was talking to had the title:

Head of Government Affairs

Makes you wonder just who is in charge of this country.
 
^^ ... I think you are mixing your chickens up WM ... :shrug:

Battery hens, as you (almost) correctly state is the term generally given to the mass produced egg laying variety of chicken.

The debate Hugh is mainly campaigning against is the intensive farmed variety of broiler chicken ... i.e. those bred for food.

Anyone who can watch Hugh's programme and think the process of intensive farming is not a cruel and disgusting practice is burying their heads where the sun doesn't shine ... :suspect:

There are guidelines for all the forms of keeping of these birds and it would not surprise me if many farms do not actually abide ... making an inhumane process even more despicable ... :thinking:


IMHGO of course ... :D



:p
 
Hacker said:
There was one thing I noticed last night on the programme which puzzled me greatly. The spokesman for Tesco that Hugh F-W was talking to had the title:

Head of Government Affairs

Makes you wonder just who is in charge of this country.
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poultry obviously, gordon brown for one is a fat turkey faced ****...
 
Venomator said:
Hands up who is going vegetarian ... :thinking:
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No, but we have been buying "free range" for a while now. We're probably going to the next stage now and start rearing our own, the wife's been wanting to for ages.
 
Venomator said:
^^ ... I think you are mixing your chickens up WM ... :shrug:

Battery hens, as you (almost) correctly state is the term generally given to the mass produced egg laying variety of chicken.

The debate Hugh is mainly campaigning against is the intensive farmed variety of broiler chicken ... i.e. those bred for food.

Anyone who can watch Hugh's programme and think the process of intensive farming is not a cruel and disgusting practice is burying their heads where the sun doesn't shine ... :suspect:

There are guidelines for all the forms of keeping of these birds and it would not surprise me if many farms do not actually abide ... making an inhumane process even more despicable ... :thinking:


IMHGO of course ... :D



:p
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Seen the news? Been watching Channel 4's Hugh programme?

News just said 63% of all egg sales in the UK are from battery farms and not free range - I never knew that.

Don't agree with the battery farms myself - any views?
Click to expand...


lol I thought the thread was about eggs, I didn't watch Hugh's program. :cuckoo: battery farms to me are egg laying ones.

We buy all our eggs from local farmers and are lucky enough to still have a proper farmers market once a month here :)
 
WanderingMind said:
lol I thought the thread was about eggs, I didn't watch Hugh's program. :cuckoo: battery farms to me are egg laying ones.
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:lol: ... I think Vinny is just trying to confuse all us mere mortals ... :shrug: ... the news item is indeed about egg production but Hugh's program is all about intensively farmed broiler birds ... :D ... hence the confusion of two threads in one ... :suspect:



:p
 
Take a read of this thread on Jamie Olivers web site:-

http://www.jamieoliver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=28544

Comments from a chicken farmer with valid points and information!

I think there is some brain washing about organic and free range. Although it isn't nice how the mass produce chickens!

Some people just can't afford to buy more expensive food. And I do have issues with grossly overweight people/low budgets/sh!t food they buy!!!!!

I buy Asdas own Malt Loaf at .20p each compared to Soreen at £1.30 and I honestly can't tell the difference!

Sorry for diverting!
Carl.
 
Given their limited intelligence and the fact the birds have never known any other way of life I've never seen the cruelty angle.

Viewing the life of chickens as though they possess human emotions is a bit daft IMO.

Same with ducks reared for Fois Gras. I've been to a farm in France and seen first hand how the ducks are reared and force fed. The ducks really didn't appear stressed.
 
We've been getting eggs from a friend who keeps chickens for a while. They taste amazing, far better than even the most expensive supermarket free range, organic eggs.

It's worth remembering that any set of regulations and standards represent the bear minimum of acceptability and anything produced to that standard is going to be pretty poor quality. As consumers we have a choice and can vote with our pockets if we so choose. Personally I dislike cheap chicken and would prefer to spend a bit more on a decent one and have it less often if money is an issue.

I don't think HFW has all the answers but support any effort to improve the quality of food we eat :thumbs:
 
Hacker said:
There was one thing I noticed last night on the programme which puzzled me greatly. The spokesman for Tesco that Hugh F-W was talking to had the title:

Head of Government Affairs

Makes you wonder just who is in charge of this country.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty obvious given that 1 in ever 8 pounds in the UK spent is with Tesco!
 
This program really pricked my conscience. I didn't realise chickens were kept like this. I have started looking at local farm shops for free range and organic meat now. I did go to Tesco this afternoon, and out of curiosity looked in the poultry aisle - all the free range chickens had sold out!
 
is it just me that doesn't care too much if the chickens they eat were unhappy when they were alive?

what exactly should we give the birds? toys? holidays to Jamaica? friendship stops? a range of food for their choice? music in the barns?

They are birds that are bread to eat? that is their sole purpose - and in the supermarket age we live in they are bread in the most cost effective way?
 
MichaelPlace said:
They are birds that are bread to eat? that is their sole purpose - and in the supermarket age we live in they are bread in the most cost effective way?
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I think there are two schools of thought here.

Firstly the moral issue which deals with respecting the life of all living creatures. Yes they're bred as food but the argument is that they shouldn't have to suffer a miserable existence just because they are destined to be food. Surely our own humanity is measured by how we treat and respect the world around us?

Edit to add: I'm no veggie, never will be but I won't kill an animal needlessly. Spiders, flies, etc. are always caught and put outside. Maybe I'm a big softie but it breaks my heart to simply kill something because I can.

Secondly, animals that live a good life taste better, it's that simple. These chickens are bred to get as big as possible as quickly as possible. The quality of the meat they produce isn't a consideration. So ignoring the first point completely you still have to ask which you prefer, meat that tastes nice or meat that is cheap?
 
From a human perspective they have a miserable existence but does the chicken think the same? They've nothing to compare it to.

39 days is a bit soon for them to start contemplating the meaning of life.
 
pxl8 said:
I think there are two schools of thought here.

Firstly the moral issue which deals with respecting the life of all living creatures. Yes they're bred as food but the argument is that they shouldn't have to suffer a miserable existence just because they are destined to be food. Surely our own humanity is measured by how we treat and respect the world around us?

Edit to add: I'm no veggie, never will be but I won't kill an animal needlessly. Spiders, flies, etc. are always caught and put outside. Maybe I'm a big softie but it breaks my heart to simply kill something because I can.

Secondly, animals that live a good life taste better, it's that simple. These chickens are bred to get as big as possible as quickly as possible. The quality of the meat they produce isn't a consideration. So ignoring the first point completely you still have to ask which you prefer, meat that tastes nice or meat that is cheap?
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YES 100%. non free range might be cheaper and more convenient or more cost effective to producers or whatever but it is inhumane. the chickens might not be human but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt live in acceptable conditions (which means not cramming 4/5 chickens in a cage the size of a small box with no room to move and having to live,eat,poo and lay eggs in the same place constantly). they are still living creatures that, however long their lives are, deserve to be treated in a certain way. i always make sure i buy free-range eggs. they are only about 10p more than non-free range so not a huge difference in price compared to the difference in conditions.
thats what i think anyway.
 
Jamies programme last night really upset me :( how they kill all the baby chicks - but i suppose its not going to effect how i eat my chicken or eggs!
 
Merlin said:
From a human perspective they have a miserable existence but does the chicken think the same?
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As mentioned in several of the programs, the chickens are prevented from carrying out natural behaviours such as pecking for food, perching, etc.

Anyone ever read a book called Spares by Michael Marshall Smith (the film The Island with Ewan McGregor was loosely based on it).

The premise is simply. Humans pay for clones to be raised in case they need a spare part (limb, kidney, etc) and when they do the spares are harvested from the clones. In the book the clones are kept as animals, pretty much like the chickens.

Would the "spares" scenario be morally acceptable? After all, they're basically bred for consumption (albeit a different kind) and certainly don't know any better. In the film the clones lived a uptopian life, interesting that the writers made that choice...
 
Venomator said:


If anyone is interested in joining Hugh's very worthwhile campaign you can sign up at his Chicken Out web site and recommend it to friends ...

On a similar tack there is another programme on Channel BBC Three, after Chicken Run, called Kill it, Cook it, Eat it presented by Julia Bradbury ... it endeavours to show the 'humane' side of animal farming from cradle to grave ... as it were ... :suspect:


Hands up who is going vegetarian ... :thinking:
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We will sign up later!

I shall go back in time to yesterday and watch that program (I have just got one of those free tiscali set top box things that lets you watch any bbc tv in the last week!)

I'm on a diet so haven't eaten any meat other than fish in the last 2 weeks!! (but I am dreaming of bacon butties!)
 
cowasaki said:
I shall go back in time to yesterday and watch that program (I have just got one of those free tiscali set top box things that lets you watch any bbc tv in the last week!)
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If it helps, it was on Channel 4 ;)
 
Vinny said:
If it helps, it was on Channel 4 ;)
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It was "Kill it, cook it, eat it", I watched it earlier on BBC 3 ! But thanks, quite horrific program. Jamie Oliver's program was on C4.
 
I'm also going free range now after this, but eventually we're going to face a similar problem.

If everyone ends up buying free range, then supermarkets and the like are going to end up driving the prices down through buying power, forcing the farms/suppliers to cut costs etc again.

Surely we'll just end up in the same position again?
 
Marcel said:
I'm also going free range now after this
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Hey Marcel, does this mean you won't visit zoos anymore?

There is too much hypocrisy in the free range argument.

I am not having a go at your morals but if you start with free range chicken you might as well go the whole hog (no pun) or you are defeating your principle.

Tigers in Chester? Not their local enviorentment is it. Condors in a cage when they should be gliding the southern seas.

I bet Chester Zoo don't use free range in their canteen chicken dishes.
 
Marcel said:
If everyone ends up buying free range, then supermarkets and the like are going to end up driving the prices down through buying power, forcing the farms/suppliers to cut costs etc again.

Surely we'll just end up in the same position again?
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I think the point is that THIS is what the industry allows for a standard chicken. For a chicken to be called free range then it has to be kept to a different standard and this alternative standard is higher. The costs are pretty much dictated by what the industries standards are for that type of chicken.

If we all switch to free range if might drive the price down by competition but the standards can't drop.
 
Try rearing a chicken (Or any other food animal) to maturity, in proper free range conditions, like we used to when I was a kid. Thursday afternoon at about 4,0clock, select Sunday lunch. Then with your bare hands catch her, kill her, by interlocking your fingers around her throat and using your thumbs to push the head off the spine. Hold on to her till she stops thrashing about then tie the feet together and hang the dead bird upside down somewhere till Saturday morning, this allows the blood to settle in the head and neck. Now on Saturday morning clean the bird out, removing all the insides, keeping the heart, liver, kidneys and craw, the craw being cleaned separately. Now remove the head from the neck catching the blood to use as fertilizer when dried, remove the neck and skin it. Keep with the other organs to be used for stock and gravy, then feather the chicken and remove the lower legs and feet, finally give it a good wash inside and out with salted water. Keep covered in a cool place until ready to cook, simple, this is how we did it. When killing a large bird be very careful as a 20 pound turkey could lift a person of slight build off their feet. As my uncle used to say no one knows the real cost of meat until you have birthed it, reared it, killed and cleaned it.
 
I think if I had to kill my own food, I'd be veggie :gag: Thank goodness for butchers!
 
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