Free legal advice

markyboy.1967

markyboy.1967

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Mark Molloy
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Is there anywhere online where I can get some free legal advice. Tried citizens advice but they were pretty must useless.. I tried 2 sites offering free advice only to be told if I want an answer then it would cost a certain fee. Its to do with a contract that has been broken.Cheers..
 
Don't they say there's "no such thing as a free lunch"? In my experience solicitors tend not to work for nothing (unlike us photographers). I used to belong to the 'Federation of small businesses' and they had a legal 'hotline' where I could speak to a solicitor but that facility came with an annual subscription.
 
Citizen's advice aren't much cop for anything other than consumer law. A lot of places do free initial consultations. If the answer means losing lots of money then I'd pay for decent advice!

Home insurance often has legal cover but that may be linked to only consumer related things not if it is a business contract.

What does the contract say about what happens when it has been broken?
 
Used to be a 'Green Form Scheme' whereby a solicitor would give 30 mins advice FOC, don't know if anything like that still exists but worth a phone call to your local solicitor to find out?
 
A lot of solicitors offer the first half hour for free - just to make sure you are not pursuing something which would be a waste of effort.


Steve.
 
Thanks folks. Basically what has happened is- we have a dog in partnership with the breeder. Contract says we bring her up and insure her and the breeder will pay all food. The breeder now wants out of the contract due to a disagreement on another matter. They have offered us the option of buying the dog( not in the contract) and because we didn't respond within 2 days they have said they want the dog back. We have had her since she was 8 weeks old ( now over a year old). On the subject of the contract they have never paid one penny towards the food and we have kept our side of the contract. If the contract went ahead without issue the breeders would have had 2 pups from a litter and then the dog would be signed over to us so that's what the would gain from the partnership. They say they ALWAYS have the dogs best interests at heart but if they aren't happy with the way we have brought the dog up then why offer to sell her to us.

The dogs is a big part of our family and to think that somehow the breeders could take her back to have a life in a cage would be unbearable. The breeders broke the contract from day 1 but because of an argument on a totally different matter they now want the dog back.
 
You don't own the dog unless it has 2 pups. They owe you the cost of the food. I'd negotiate the dog in lieu of the cost of the food and their breach of contract. You must see a solicitor about this as with such a case they could easily just take the dog if the contract says they can. You don't legally own it. You've basically agreed to borrow it until it has pups.

It sounds an odd arrangement to me.
 
Doesn't sound to me like anyone particularly has the dogs best interests at heart really, more like a bottom line :(
 
The dog is in joint names- the breeders and my wife and I don't see anything in the contract to say anything about what happens if one party wants to end the contract. The contract does say she will become fully ours after she has had pups and that part is settled. I can't see how they could take the dog given she is in joint names, we have brought her up, we have stuck to the contract( breeders have been in breach of contract since day 1).

Many breeders work this way as it allows their dogs to be known far and wide in the show world, they also get the publicity for the show wins along with us and of course they get a return two fold when pups are born. Added to that it takes away all the trouble of the breeder bringing them up, finding space for them and also the full costs of owning the dog outright.
 
viv1969 said:
Doesn't sound to me like anyone particularly has the dogs best interests at heart really, more like a bottom line :(
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What do you mean? The dog is best staying with us in her forever home where she is best friends with our other dog and the only home she has known. She is looked after like a princess hence why we have tried to settle the dispute with the breeder but it looks like that avenue is now closed when they started demanding the dog back to put in their kennels.
 
If you are referring to a dog registered with The Kennel Club you may find that they can offer you advice, see:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/

I suggest you phone them but stick to the facts and don't muddy the waters with any other dispute you may have with the breeder.

Your contract sounds like the usual kind though I don't think they usually agree to pay for the food and the fact they have not done so is in your favour as they would seem to be in breach of the contract. I would expect that any other disagreement is irrelevant to this contract. Assuming that it is a KC registered dog the KC has a lot of leverage with the breeder. The KC has rules about dogs let out on contracts such as you describe.
 
I'd probably be tempted to try these people at £1.53 a minute as they may have the best idea of what you can and cannot do:

http://www.doglaw.co.uk/

It's a messy situation and you don't want to do the wrong thing.
 
sphexx said:
If you are referring to a dog registered with The Kennel Club you may find that they can offer you advice, see:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/

I suggest you phone them but stick to the facts and don't muddy the waters with any other dispute you may have with the breeder.

Your contract sounds like the usual kind though I don't think they usually agree to pay for the food and the fact they have not done so is in your favour as they would seem to be in breach of the contract. I would expect that any other disagreement is irrelevant to this contract. Assuming that it is a KC registered dog the KC has a lot of leverage with the breeder. The KC has rules about dogs let out on contracts such as you describe.
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Great, Thanks, I will have a read at that.
 
srichards said:
I'd probably be tempted to try these people at £1.53 a minute as they may have the best idea of what you can and cannot do:

http://www.doglaw.co.uk/

It's a messy situation and you don't want to do the wrong thing.
Click to expand...
Again, Thanks I will have a read and maybe contact them.
 
free advice is generally worth what you pay for it ... see a solicitor ( a lot of solicitors do a free 15 minuite initial consultation to determine if you have a case)

In this case a solicitors letter may frighten them off - once they realise you arent going to be pushed about
 
If the initial contact is signed and witnessed, and they have never paid for food, they're in breach.
 
viv1969 said:
If the initial contact is signed and witnessed, and they have never paid for food, they're in breach.
Click to expand...
Does it matter that they've never highlighted the breeder's breach of contract until other issues started?
 
Yes it was witnessed but by family members from both sides. To be honest we were ok with things until we fully read the contract( only after we were threatened to have the dog taken off us).It was then we found clearly stated that they would pay ALL food which they haven't. When we brought the issue up it was bypassed quickly by themselves. One of the issues was that my wife had said on FB that she was taking a back seat rom the show ring for a few months until she had dealt with other things. The breeders were furious and it started from there. They said it was in the contract that we show the do( why we looked out the contract in the first place)g--which I can confirm that it DOES NOT state anything about showing the dog. I can remember at the signing of contracts that the breeders said that we didn't need to show her if we didn't want to-nothing in contracts to state either way. She has qualified for Crufts already for next year and has attended many many shows this year not that it should matter as its not in the contract.
 
probably - a court could well see that as unreasonable (especially if you never invoiced the breeder for the food). However its likely that a court would see expecting a reply in 48 hours as unreasonable as well.

my hughly inexpert opinion is that the court would probably see the offer to sell you the dog as a reasonable solution - but would expect the breeder to honour that offer and to makea reasonable price. However as i said earlier i strongly doubt the breeder wants theexpense of a court action, so a solicitors letter might well send them running for cover.

(this also depends on what the 'other issues with the contract' were )
 
Thanks Pete, I feel my wife not replying was the correct one as the TEXT was a threatening one to remove the dogs from us unless we bought the dog from them. We have at no time asked to end the contract with them and our plan was to continue the contract.They are the ones wanting to end the contract for no reasons stated on the contract, they have threatened removal of the dog from our home, they were in breech of contract I believe by not paying for the food( they buy bulk food for their other dogs).They have bought a retirement home in Spain and move away in September and I may be totally wrong but feel they want the contract ended before they go to recoup money and free them from the tie in of the contract which they would find difficult to keep up from a country retreat in Spain.
 
TopBanana said:
Does it matter that they've never highlighted the breeder's breach of contract until other issues started?
Click to expand...

No, that doesn't matter.
Also, calculate what you have spent over all the time you have had the dog, on food, (some diets are pretty expensive!).
Subtract that amount from whatever the asking price is.
Then calulate vets fees, insurance etc. and subtract 50% of that as well. Yes I know those costs are yours in the contract, but point out that two can play silly sod games.
Also remind him that you'd now be purchasing a 1 year old dog, not an eight week old puppy, and values drop, even for good pedigree stock
 
Steve Smith said:
A breach of contract renders all other terms invalid.


Steve.
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assuming a court accepts the contract was breached. If they say they never paid because they were never invoiced a court could hold that consideriing that a breach was unreasonable.

That said any contract breached or not can be contested in court anyway
 
Steve Smith said:
A breach of contract renders all other terms invalid.


Steve.
Click to expand...

Yes, but in a dispute, the party who has continually upheld their contractual obligations would be judged far more favourably than one which has not.
 
They just text my wife and said they want £1200 for the dog.The pups at the time were selling for £1500 so they have offered a £300 drop in price.I don't think that is anywhere near the correct price I should be paying and to be honest I expected a fee of around £500 if we ever came to an agreement. There is nothing in the contract to say they would be invoiced, all it says " the breeders shall pay for all food". Our responsibility was to give the dog a loving home, pay the vet bills and the dog insurance( all of which we have done from day 1), to keep the dogs healthy and well groomed-they cant dispute that as we have many judges offering good critique from dog shows we have won or been placed in..We have collected many comments from various online forums which state the breeders couldn't have hoped for a better home for the dog so I cant see they could try and contest this.

Facts are-the breeders want out the contract( reasons aside), they never kept to the contact concerning food( invoicing or not).
 
Possibly a daft question...But is the dog microchipped?
 
Hide the dog. Tell them it's run off/been run over. There will be nothing in the contract about that situation either ;)

The breeder is sounding more and more like an arse as time goes on.
 
Whose name is the chip registered?
 
srichards said:
Hide the dog. Tell them it's run off/been run over. There will be nothing in the contract about that situation either ;)

The breeder is sounding more and more like an arse as time goes on.
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It seems very much like it but you are only hearing 1 side- they will have another side( no doubt) but if so they haven't as yet told us anything to cause them to revoke the contract and take her back.at the end of it all she is a house dog/pet and not a piece of meat to be taken from us whenever suits others. We love this dog and she is part of the family and not something to be locked in a kennel for most of the day in a large barn.
 
If you have joint ownership of the dog surely she can't asked the full price as you already own half ?
Trevor Cooper at Dog Law really is the best person to ask, he specialises in such things, but not cheap
 
Gremlin said:
If you have joint ownership of the dog surely she can't asked the full price as you already own half ?
Trevor Cooper at Dog Law really is the best person to ask, he specialises in such things, but not cheap
Click to expand...
Another for me to look into. Thanks for posting.
 
Without seeing the contract and knowing the exact terms, you can only assume what obligations have or haven't been upheld
by both parties
It's one of those things that is best left to those that know the law, which unfortunately will need paying for, it's a minefield
Not sure if sending a text and demanding an answer will hold up though
 
Am i being unreasonable by not agreeing to the £1200 fee they want? My thoughts rightly or wrongly are- we own half the dog and taking care of her needs for the past year must count for something. She isnt a pup any more and prices of dogs are lower than the pup price.we have paid all her food which was the breeders duty the the last year, we arent wanting to end the contract but will happily do so if terms can be reached- they are wanting out and i believe all of this should be taken into consideration. I just feel £1200 is taking the preverbial given all this.
 
Text messages constitute formal communication now if records are kept of them. Even contracts thrashed out by text have been upheld.

I dont think you're being unreasonable. I think you should factor in tge costs accrued over thw time you've had the dog, especially the food and make make a reasonable offer, assuming that is that you're willing to pay for the dog, and I think your ballpark figure is reasonable.

As you didn't initially purchase the dog wholly or partly I don't think you'll establish joint ownership exists, as the contract as you have explained it sounds more like a contract of care.

At the end of the day my first move personally would be to calculate as above, make your offer, make it clear that it's a final offer, and point out that he can either accept, or, as he's in breach of contract, you're keeping the dog and if he wishes to spend a bunch of money pursuing you through the courts he's welcome to do so.

Remain polite, confident, put it in writing, keep copies of everything. And don't let the dog out of your sight.
 
Thanks Ruth. You mentioned it would be hard to prove joint ownership. I thought that with her in joint names and us being the first named person then we could prove that. The breeders partly gave us the dog and can't see how they can go back on that seeing as we have had her for a year or so.the contract is only a few pages of very large text and doesn't hold much content at all. I'm beginning to see this as being complicated. What if we say " No" to buying them out? Do they need to either keep the contract going or sell their part?
 
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