Four Merlins and a D200

chuckles

chuckles

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Barry
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As some of you may I went to Duxford... not as a paying guest, I didn't have time, but just to sit in a field opposite. It struck me that the sound a Lancaster makes as it flies overhead on a low pass is pretty awsome - and really doesn't happen that often..... :(

I thought I should really try to record this. Armed with only my mobile phone I had a go! Trouble was .... I couldn't stop taking photographs hence, "Four Merlins and a D200" :lol:


Four Merlins wav Warning 3.5 Mb.....

Four Merlins MP3 Warning 500Kb.....

Blast from the Past Photos...

Hope you enjoy them sound.... and picckies!
 
The only thing to beat the sound of a merlin, is the smell as it fires up and begins to sing. :D
 
digitalfailure said:
The only thing to beat the sound of a merlin, is the smell as it fires up and begins to sing. :D
Click to expand...
As a boy I would watch the Farnborough Air Show from a hill at the back of our house. Thee most awe enspiring noise was by far the Lightening goig vertical and out of site after cruising down the runway at about walking pace:runaway:
Have never lost the sheer breathless state it left me in. Been, Seen and read the book since but the memory still frightens me witless.:exit: :runaway: :runaway:
 
I went to Farnborough with my father in the mid '60s - I know exactly what you mean - but ........

How about a Vulcan bomber full throttle, climbing almost vertical. Well, it seemed like that to a little boy. Four jet engines on full chat - it made my chest rattle! :lol: Incidentally, there's a chance a Vulcan (XH558) will be flying again this season, worth seeing/hearing. ;)

Still, gotta be that Merlin starting, sputtering and finally error free, pulling the most elegant of airframes through the atmosphere... does take a bit of beating. :clap:
 
Ah, the english electric lightning's party piece :D

0 to 50000 ft in the blink of an eye :D

Although it was a noise to savour and an experience that threatened to rob the very oxygen you were breathing, it's still behind the vulcan for a display or power and smoke :)
 
I remember watching a "History" programme about the Lightning. The test pilot was in straight and level flight at 10,000' - he contacted the tower, asking to put it into a full throttle, steep climb. The answer was in the affirmative.... <slight pause> .... "tell us when you reach 18,000' "... "too late, already at 25,000' ". I would loved to have the seen the smile on his face!
 
Nice, looking forward to sunderland's airshow this year, hopefully the weather plays ball :)
 
IanC_UK said:
very nice :) this is just the one Merlin sends shudders down my spine every single time :)
Click to expand...

Some good ones there Ian... thanks!
 
Those Merlins sound ace...:thumbs:
 
Merlins are fine and good, but I got the opportunity to hear the supercharged DB601/605 in the Bf-109-F in full-on balls-out mode before some clot crashed it in Germany.
Now that is a sound that makes your bladder weak...

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aero_engines/aero_db605.htm

You will see from the blueprints that it was a myth that Bf 109's had a cannon firing through the spinner - any basic thought as to the stresses involved, let alone the engineering problems it would cause would kill that story stone-dead. The 'hole' in the spinner was for the auxiliary ground unit to start the engine (early models didn't have a self-starter - British engines had a rotary starter comprising a 'revolver' containing 6 blank shotgun shells - if your engine didn't start after six tries you had to re-load it...).
 
I know what you mean about the Daimler-Benz unit Rob.... 'tis a bit special. But a Merlin full chat in a Spit diving is sheer genius.... can't even think how to describe it :shrug:

Have to have a look at my "Luftwaffe" book, but it's at work. I often puzzled how much room there was left after a gun was poked through the middle....
 
It was all bluff - I think they tried it on the B variant, but it destroyed the engine and was never used in combat. Useful propaganda though, telling your enemies that you have a 30mm cannon with twice the range of your enemies .303's.
By the time the Ferdinands and Gustavs were about even the myth had disappeared. For some reason it still persists nowadays.

The engineering nightmares associated with poking a gun barrel through the drive-shaft of a high-performance piston engine don't bear thinking about, let alone trying to fire, service and reload it...
It would require a major engine rebuild every time.
 
I too have often thought how the canon would sit on that engine, the french motuer-canon attempts and the swiss canons both sat in the vee between the cylinder banks, the Daimler unit was upside down though.

Lots of factual net sites fail to mention the lack of canon though, most state that the mk108 MG FF was used with hydrostatic incendiary shells on the G and K variants


:runaway:
 
Hmmm... I suppose since the spinner didn't sit in-line with the main drive-shaft in the engine but was geared/offset vertically...
I've never seen the provision for ammunition storage though and I've had a good, hard look at the Bf 109 in the museum at Cosford. We used the musem to practice our in-situ engineering photos on course there - I used the Bf 109, Bf 110, ME 410 and ME 262 over the course of a month, getting the peeps there to strip various parts away so we could peer inside. Actually stripping and assembling the cannons was a fun afternoon.
 
Well, I've found my book and it's veritable treasure of information but nowhere near the same as a friend of mine who has come over to this country to work for a week. He is German and he saw me looking in this book and enquired what I was doing. So, I told him! What I didn't know was that he has been studying German WWII aircraft since he was a kid.... thirty odd years of knowledge on tap!

The answer, as far as he was concerned, is nearly all Me 109s had that armament configuration; from the service Emils right through to the end. The only exceptions were if they were being used as light bombers or photo reconnaisance. In the book there is a photograph of the Gustav's cockpit and it clearly shows the the gun protruding into the pilot's space.

I'll make a copy of the photo to show you ---> soon ... trouble is, he's borrowed me book! :)
 
Well...:thinking:


Maybe the one in the museum had it removed, but I don't recall the breech-block of a cannon in the cockpit when I sat in it... or a hole where it should have been.
 
hahah most of them are 'restored' examples of planes that were 'forcibly removed' from the work environment... so to speak.


*From Wikipedia*
The MK 108 (German: Maschinenkanone - Machine Cannon) was an autocannon (30 mm calibre) manufactured in Germany during World War II by Rheinmetall-Borsig for use in aircraft.

History
The weapon was developed as a private venture by the company in 1940 and was submitted to the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM - Reich Aviation Ministry) in response to a 1942 requirement for a heavy aircraft weapon for use against the Allied bombers appearing en masse in German skies by then. Testing verified that the cannon was well-suited to this role, requiring on average just four hits with high-explosive ammunition to bring down a heavy bomber such as a B-17 Flying Fortress or B-24 Liberator and a single hit to down a fighter. In comparison, the otherwise excellent 20 mm MG 151/20 required an average of 25 hits to down a B-17.

The MK 108 was quickly ordered into production and was installed in a variety of Luftwaffe fighter aircraft. It saw first operational service in late autumn 1943 with the Bf 110 G-2 bomber destroyers and in the Bf 109 G-6/U4.

AFAIK the cannon was fitted in under-wing pods, not in the nose...
See also:

http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html


MG 151/20 (1941 - Mauser) and MG FF (1938 - from a Bofors design, manufactured under licence) cannons were also mounted in wing pods.
I see that the F variant had the provision for this weapon, but all operational records I've found point to the use of wing-mounted cannons in removable pods.
 
Rob

I'll see your wike quote for the mk108 and i'll raise you a snippet from their page on the bf109

"The G-6 model, the most produced Bf 109 version, had heavier armament. The G-6/U4 variant with Rüstsatz R6 was armed with two 13 mm MG 131 above the engine, a 30 mm MK 108 cannon shooting through the propeller hub and one 20 mm MG 151/20 in a 'pod' under each wing. The G-6 was very often fitted with assembly sets, used to carry bombs or a drop tank, for use as nightfighter, or to increase fire power by adding rockets or extra guns. During 1943, a number of improvements were gradually introduced for the type's benefit : armoured glass head-rest ('Galland Panzer') (early 1943), and the introduction of the clear-view 'Erla Haube' canopy (autumn 1943) improved visibility -especially to the rear, and a taller tail unit improved stability at high speeds. The introduction of the WGr. 21cm under-wing mortar/rockets and the 30 mm MK 108 cannon increased firepower. Certain production batches of the Gustav were fitted with aileron Flettner tabs to decrease stick forces at high speeds"

and your luft46 link also includes the engine mounted mk108 in the fitment table


:D
 
Here we go then! Finally.....

me109F_small_canon.jpg


Only a "lump" but it clearly shows the left rudder pedal which suggests that this is the centrally mounted 30mm cannon. Although the side bar says this is the 109 G, the book also mentions that this configuration started, and became the standard, upon the introduction of the DB-601 A engine.... early Me109E(mil) variants onwards
 
Well, went to put some stuff out in the garage this evening and discovered some books I had from a "previous life". Lo and behold, in this pile is another book on the development history of the Me109 and it seems that the nose/spinner fitted cannon was present in some models and not in others.

It was not present in the Bertha or Caesar but made it's first appearance in the Dora then disappeared in the Emil then re-appearing in the Ferdinand and Gustav. The Gustav having a smaller bore cannon 'cos this model was already overweight with extra armament!

Anyway, this other book had a lovely diagram which is included below

me109_diag.jpg


Geek mode off! :geek:
 
Barry

Any chance of dropping the name of the book so fellow bee f fans can ponder it's contents ?
 
Yep, sure......

The first one is The Luftwaffe Album (ISBN 1-85409-519-6).
The second is Handbook of Great Aircraft of WWII (ISBN 1-86147-076-2).

How do I get out of Geek mode? ;)

(The Luftwaffe album is quite a good book but, as my German friend pointed out to me [and I missed it] it doesn't include the Ju 87 Stuka. He has written to the authors for an explanation) :shrug:
 
I don't think that particular mode can be turned off, surpressed a little....but never turned off!

I'll have a google for them there books :thumbs:
 
OK Hands Up - I got it wrong...maybe I was confused by the Emil thing...
dunno...
Not usually so far off-base...
 
Hmmmm --- I've waited years to use these books! :whistling:

But, I didn't want anybody to beat themselves up over it! :runaway:

If you interested in nose firing cannons try the de Havilland Tsetse ... a much modified Mosquito.... they fitted a Molins 6 pounder (57mm) Anti-tank gun, 60 rounds a minute. Pilots were heard to mention "the aircraft flew slower under the recoil, sometimes feeling as if you were flying backwards!"

Just words here

Scroll down a bit for a photo....
 
I had a dvd showing the molins being tested. The aircraft was static on the ground and the bloody thing was being rolled backwards as it fired. :D
 
Ha ha! Doesn't bear thinking about really does it? A wooden mounted 57mm cannon, launching a (sometimes 7lb) armour piercing shell! :shrug: And .... a muzzle velocity of nearly 800 m/sec.....
 
they have a molins canon at cosford too, the thing is massive when it has the shell feed system fitted to it, best part of a ton :eek:

and all that coming at you at 200 mph held in place by bits of balsa and ply wood :D

forget the bombs, you could kill a tank if the gun fell out of the nose :D
 
theres a nice little video on you tube of the ac130 h at work :thumbs:
 
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