Former CGS Speaks out

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Arkady

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Gen Sir Mike Jackson on last night's Dimbleby lecture managed to hit the nail on the head...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6215296.stm



Now bring back National Service for young offenders - just to remind them that although they live in a democracy, it's a 2-way street: you are required to contribute to society - it doesn't just owe you...

Not for fighting, they could be formed into Labour Battalions to do manual Labour such as building roads, bridges, runways etc.
It'd save us paying civvy cntractors extortionate sums to do the work for us.
 
Heard him on Radio 4 this morning and last night.

I agree. The young soldier gives his all and deserves more than just the wage, especially when asked to leave his family, etc, etc

Not to mention a properly funded, equipped operation, etc.
 
As regards national service for young offenders, get them up there - let them earn it instead of sponging off the state.


The way the government run the armed forces is a joke, one thing the US does have going for it is their troops get what they need to do the job, our soldiers get shafted big time in the equipment stakes, constant cut backs and increasing commitments :bang:
 
Well we definitely don't always have the best equipment. When 1st Armoured Division shipped off to Iraq we didn't have near enough vests, boots, desert uniforms etc... and had to wait a number of months to get them. I will say that on the whole the US Army takes care of its soldiers and family.

It does matter as to where you are stationed as to the type of support the family members get during deployment, I was pregnant with my now husbands baby when he was in Iraq but we weren't married so the spouses would have nothing to do with me and I was never aloud to talk to him on satellite feed.

We also get paid an ok amount and on the whole housing is above par with other "blue collar" workers. But then again my husband is gone for 18-20 months every 3 years so they better take care of us!
 
I was saying to a friend last week that the unemployed and and chav sectors should be made to earn their benifits doing work projects around their area.

One example is a heritage lottery fund site at the old hooton airfield, it has secured funding to restore some of the old WWII hanger roofs, but now that money is becoming available the tradesmen needed aren't available. I think that the govt. should begin training programs and actually get some of the long term dole claimants retrained and occupied doing these sorts of projects around the country.

Our country would be in a better state, and the retraining of the unemployed would this countries skill defict. The work for your benift attitude might instill a little respect.
 
This is very similar to what was done during the great depression in the US. The problem I think though is we have a society who thinks you should get something for nothing and I think it really starts with the parents and not the kids teaching them right and wrong and the value of hard work.
 
I recall it being said the once, that with dependency on gucci kit, what happens when/if you have not got it anymore. I'm a kit jjunkie like many of others but always felt that I had to train with the basics before even thinking about spending any money, as that other saying goes "Train hard, fight easy"

But FFS, lets at least give the lads the basics.


"Now bring back National Service for young offenders - just to remind them that although they live in a democracy, it's a 2-way street: you are required to contribute to society - it doesn't just owe you..." .....

I love that, I'm gonna keep that one.
 
Just watched Tony Blair last night on TV saying that immigrants have to embrace our values and way of life or stay away. Finally... the man's said the right thing.
He must have been reading this post.
 
Sorry but I disagree with the whole national service thing. One of the things the sets our nation apart from so many others out there with a half decent military is the fact that our is professional. What I mean by that is the fact that all people in the military want or atleast at one opint wanted to be in it. So they have a certain amount of pride in what they're doing from the offset. Now consider a military with a large percent of national service who don't want to be there and have no interest, then give them all the **** jobs like labouring (the RAF used to have a general duties trade for all the menial tasks once upon a time) and they're going to be even less interested and hacked off with this country. Not to mention the fact that you will still need full time proper soldiers sailors and airman to control these labour battallions because you really wouldn't trust them to look after themaselves would you and that would be another drain on the resources which we really don't need.

I don't know what the answer is but I'd start looking at the family unit, the community, the police, the judicial system and a hell of a lot more that is messed up by the tw@s in parliament before I started looking to the millitary for the answers.
 
You're right to an extent Kev, but what Arkady suggests seems to make sense surely? Use them for the more "manual labour" type tasks that at the moment the military are having to pay others to do.

It sounds like "President" ;) Blair is at long last waking up to the way that an increasing number of those in this country are starting to feel!
 
I would say that some kind of National Service would do this country the world of good - whether it's active service or labour "battalions" is a different argument altogether. Thing is, look at the "Me" culture that we have these days. If I did wrong as a kid, I'd get a damn good hiding and suffered the consequences - my parents would back up the law. It's the other way around these days, and it's only a generation apart. (My Dad, incidentally, served in Egypt in the 50s.)

Watching something like Bad Lads Army or something, you can see these kids being turned more into team players, looking outside their own little bubble. Okay, so a couple of years working for the MoD on the front line might not be the answer, but working in the background won't hurt anyone. The thing is, at the end of it all, society will benefit. Let's face it, how does the UK rank in the drug-taking, crime and teenage pregnancy tables at the moment?
 
Kev Mills said:
So they have a certain amount of pride in what they're doing from the offset.
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Pride? Come to Uxbridge sometime or better still, pop down to Brize and see how the much pride the RAF have about the way they do business... Maybe it's because of the way that training has softened in recent years, but it's almost like they don't regard themselves as part of the military.

If ever something could be improved by privatisation, it's the non-pointy side of the RAF...

Apart from aircrew and a few other exceptions most of them regard themselves as civvies in uniform.

Sorry Kev, but 20 years of being ****'d about by those chimps has had an effect.
 
Arkady said:
........ better still, pop down to Brize and see how the much pride the RAF have about the way they do business...
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I served with the RAF at Brize in the 1980's and can tell you it was pretty slack then. But the RAF is definitely a slacker service than the army. We used to turn up at field sites where the REME had been there setting up for 3 weeks beforehand. We would arrive with one truck dedicated to booze, they were dry for the enite 6 weeks they were there. Unfair!

Going back to the wider social problem. I do not like the way the government interefres with everything I do; How I run my businesses, how I should bring up my children, don't get me started on vehicle controls! I feel however (like most people I know) I have a duty to society to pay my taxes and get on and do my bit.

What do we do with the section of society that does not feel this way? That think they are owed a living? National Service does not sort this problem against the economy based society we now live in; as apposed to the war based/fear of losing liberty society where subscription was last used.

We have a problem in our society which I would dare to say stems from both parents having to go out to work to make a living wage. Family bonds and disciplines have eroded over time because of this. The cost of governanace is too high and this needs to be addressed so that more earned money can stay in the pockets of the average Joe (or Josie).

I have raised more points than I answered I know but unless the government (who ever is in power) stops spending so much money controlling and starts investing in things that will geniunely make people feel satisfied, society will become ever more unstable.

smiley_soapbox.gif

Soap Box now away.
 
Thing is though catdaddy bad lads army is certainly nothing like RAF training now and I expect is harsher than either of the other services basic training simply becasue all this human rights crap. You're not allowed to touch them to pick fluff off of their uniforms without first warning them or they'll accuse you of assault never mind shouting at them and let's not even think about dishing out physical punishment like 20 press ups.

The real military is nothing like that TV show in the same way real life is nothing like coronation street.
 
National Sevvice straightened me out.....Yes bring it back just as it used to be....Looking back I enjoyed it
 
It doesn't need to be 'like the old days' - look how well the Paras and Booties (and others) have done in Afghanistan - nothing wrong with the people we get in either. The problem is the disparity between the services' view of what they're supposed to be.
I was doing weapon handling tests for an RAF Flight-Lieutenant about to deploy to Kandahar who said she didn't see the point as she'd never dream of trying to shoot anyone. When I mentioned that the Taliban might see things differently she said that she'd try to reason with them and if that didn't work, she'd run away.
I opined that the men and women under her command might not view that with much enthusiasm and she just shrugged...
Also the Royal Navy have just pulled out of covering Combat Camera Team commitments in-theatre as the (RAF) team that took over in Helmand from Paul and myself were not allowed to go forward to the FoB's and Platoon Houses as neither had any infantry training and were both female (and overweight). They spent the whole two months there drinking iced-lattes in Kandahar.
We are now looking at conducting tri-service CCT training for all units deploying but have been told that we're not allowed to include any infantry skills training as it's not our remit.
Looks as though the Army's going to have to pick up the slack again.
Fair enough, most RAF and Navy Phots didn't join to roll in the mud with bullets flying over their heads, but it's the way of things these days - jointery is the new buzz-word. Are they military or not? Should they be allowed to pick and choose assignments based on the risk factor? Paras can't choose which fights they get into (though most would possibly opt for the one with the least chance of survival - the greater the odds, the greater the victory, the fewer the men, the greater the share of laurels).
 
Arkady said:
When I mentioned that the Taliban might see things differently she said that she'd try to reason with them and if that didn't work, she'd run away.
I opined that the men and women under her command might not view that with much enthusiasm and she just shrugged...
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Unbelievable, I hope for her sake and those beneath her, shes never in a real fire fight - training should have knocked that kind of naivety out her in an instant:cuckoo:

Even more concerned that when your giving last minute tips that would probably save her life she still thinks shes in some fantasy world where nobody does bad unto others :thinking:
 
Arkady said:
I was doing weapon handling tests for an RAF Flight-Lieutenant about to deploy to Kandahar who said she didn't see the point as she'd never dream of trying to shoot anyone. When I mentioned that the Taliban might see things differently she said that she'd try to reason with them and if that didn't work, she'd run away.
I opined that the men and women under her command might not view that with much enthusiasm and she just shrugged...
Click to expand...

OMG... is she really in the right job? :suspect:

Whilst I agree that the lack of any sort of discipline is the root cause of a lot of society's ill's today, I don't think that it's the role of the Armed Forces to be saddled with putting things right. A few years ago young blokes charged with extremely serious offences used to walk free from courts on the understanding that they were joining up, but I don't think the forces would want our flotsam and jetsam these days, nor do I think they should be expected to.
 
Arkady said:
I was doing weapon handling tests for an RAF Flight-Lieutenant about to deploy to Kandahar who said she didn't see the point as she'd never dream of trying to shoot anyone. When I mentioned that the Taliban might see things differently she said that she'd try to reason with them and if that didn't work, she'd run away.
I
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That really is shocking. Having been a woman in the armed services I just shake my head in shame as this is what gives a bad name to woman in the service.

I only ahve the US military to compare it to and I must say it is very similar to our air force. They are lax in so many ways. I wonder if it is something Britain and America talked about ahead of time. Having a military service that is not really the military?? Of course the Marine corps would say the Army is too soft. Is it pretty much every older generation who says "well when I was young it was better?"
 
Why leave these people until the age of 16 until we try to correct their attitudes by forcing them into national service though? Shoudn't it be up to the parents from day one?
 
I have to share this tidbit - Yesterday the US Air Force revealed that the JAG officer (lawyer) who has been being groomed to become the next head of JAG and apparently has been the golden boy forever is not a lawyer! He was disbarred in Texas in 1983!!! How embarrassing. All the JAG officers had to take proof that they were lawyers to their commanders yesterday. I think it is funny.

Especially since last year the head of JAG for the Air Force was caught having relations with all the lower enlisted females and retired (to good for him I say) in disgrace.
 
Especially since last year the head of JAG for the Air Force was got having relations with all the lower enlisted females and retired (to good for him I say) in disgrace.
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In the UK that would have read, "having relations with all the lower enlisted males " ;)
 
Yes but the male part in the US is a court martial offense!
 
HIMUPNORTH said:
:eek: What! having one? That explains those stories about yanks and no balls........:coat:




:D
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WOOPS! just reread what I wrote. What I meant was having a same sex relationship can be tried by court martial. And it is definite grounds for a chapter from the Army, usually with only a General discharge.
 
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