for those unhappy at fuel prices...

Matt

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Coordinated campaign..the guy behind it also sorted out the ghurkas, have a look, add your name to the petition and see if it makes a difference.

http://www.fairfueluk.com/index.html
 
if youre on twitter, get it spread around, this will only work if the people get behind it. hes not going to go and park an articulated lorry over the doors of a refinery, so it needs numbers.
 
Signed and Passed on.;)
 
signed up and added to facebook for my friends to sign up..... I assume though its fiarer fuel prices for everyone and not just hauliers!
 
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Shouldn't really single out this one, but haven't seen a petition for a while, and they annoy me...


The problem with petitions is they live in an isolated little world where there is only one problem with an easy solution - fuel tax is too high, and it could be lowered, which would solve the problem. Marvellous, let's do it and move on to the next big problem - while we're at it we can abolish income tax, because that's unpopular, and abolish VAT because i'm sure no one would object to that either.

What a credible petition needs is a viable alternative. What do they propose we do to replace the lost tax? They haven't suggested anything, so what if i proposed we cut road building so that the hauliers sit in traffic jams all day, or put up road tax on lorries by 100x to make up the difference?

How about something that (apparently) doesn't impact hauliers - let's put VAT up a little more. Oh, but then people would buy less, we'd need less goods in shops, need to manufacture less, and so need less deliveries. They've just petitioned themselves out of jobs! Or put up income tax - but no, then people would have less money to spend, people would buy less, we'd need less goods in shops, need to manufacture less, and so need less deliveries. They've just petitioned themselves out of jobs again!

The point i'm trying to make is that the economy is a hugely complex set of interactions between billions of transactions, thousands of laws and taxes, and a lot of public spending, and if you change one the rest will adjust to compensate. Petitions against single issues are ultimately pointless, because of the reasons i gave above. Everyone would sign a petition to reduce one tax in isolation. But unless you tell the government that "we want to reduce this tax, but don't mind you putting up this other tax which will raise the same revenue" then the simple answer is that, actually, yes fuel tax is unpopular, but putting up income tax would be even more unpopular, so it's simply the lesser of two evils.

David
 
Signed and circulated amongst friends and relatives.
 
Shouldn't really single out this one, but haven't seen a petition for a while, and they annoy me...


The problem with petitions is they live in an isolated little world where there is only one problem with an easy solution - fuel tax is too high, and it could be lowered, which would solve the problem. Marvellous, let's do it and move on to the next big problem - while we're at it we can abolish income tax, because that's unpopular, and abolish VAT because i'm sure no one would object to that either.

What a credible petition needs is a viable alternative. What do they propose we do to replace the lost tax? They haven't suggested anything, so what if i proposed we cut road building so that the hauliers sit in traffic jams all day, or put up road tax on lorries by 100x to make up the difference?

How about something that (apparently) doesn't impact hauliers - let's put VAT up a little more. Oh, but then people would buy less, we'd need less goods in shops, need to manufacture less, and so need less deliveries. They've just petitioned themselves out of jobs! Or put up income tax - but no, then people would have less money to spend, people would buy less, we'd need less goods in shops, need to manufacture less, and so need less deliveries. They've just petitioned themselves out of jobs again!

The point i'm trying to make is that the economy is a hugely complex set of interactions between billions of transactions, thousands of laws and taxes, and a lot of public spending, and if you change one the rest will adjust to compensate. Petitions against single issues are ultimately pointless, because of the reasons i gave above. Everyone would sign a petition to reduce one tax in isolation. But unless you tell the government that "we want to reduce this tax, but don't mind you putting up this other tax which will raise the same revenue" then the simple answer is that, actually, yes fuel tax is unpopular, but putting up income tax would be even more unpopular, so it's simply the lesser of two evils.

David

of course, for every action, there is an opposite reaction - like for instance, bring fuel costs down thereby reduce 'product' costs, people spend more on cheaper items, so more need delivering by the hauliers [thereby increasing the fuel they buy and the tax from that], gov gets more back via VAT, etc etc.... it can be reasonably argued both ways.

off to sign, because I dont believe 2.5% on VAT will cripple the country, but I do think the constant increase on fuel costs could, on more than one level. Just imo.
 
of course, for every action, there is an opposite reaction - like for instance, bring fuel costs down thereby reduce 'product' costs, people spend more on cheaper items, so more need delivering by the hauliers [thereby increasing the fuel they buy and the tax from that], gov gets more back via VAT, etc etc.... it can be reasonably argued both ways.

off to sign, because I dont believe 2.5% on VAT will cripple the country, but I do think the constant increase on fuel costs could, on more than one level. Just imo.

Agree with this, completely!
 
off to sign, because I dont believe 2.5% on VAT will cripple the country, but I do think the constant increase on fuel costs could, on more than one level. Just imo.

Agreed. :thumbs:

I've signed and I'll spread the word about it as well.
 
Can someone point me to where on that site that it says they are fighting for fair fuel costs for all, it seems to me its just lobbying for reduced duty for the haulage industry.

(i am aware that technically reducing haulage costs could reduce the cost of the goods we buy)
 
Unless you're an arab sheik, I don't think you'll find anyone happy at the fuel prices. So this is like one of those fatuous questions they ask on 24 hours news where the answer is known beforehand. Like .. are you paying too much tax (unless your the tax czar for the Govt who doesn't pay any)
 
Signed, not that I think it'll make a difference, but there again if everyone said it wouldn't do anything nothing would get done.

Wish they would do one for all users not just haulage though
 
Did anyone see the wasted miles on the Eddie Stobart programme last night, back and forth to deliver turkeys?
 
These things never make a difference but doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying
 
Did anyone see the wasted miles on the Eddie Stobart programme last night, back and forth to deliver turkeys?

I didn't see it but if they were delivering turkeys how were they wasted miles :thinking:
 
Just a thought but whatever happens goods will have to be delivered to shops/factories/etc and therefore the hauliers will have to pass on the increases which means we all pay in the end. Why not just give them the petrol for free and increase the amount the rest of us have to pay for it - it will probably amount to the same thing in the end whatever happens.

I would like to know how some garages manage to charge the same for petrol and diesel and others charge about 5pence a litre more for diesel - not many years ago that it was cheaper than petrol
 
I would like to know how some garages manage to charge the same for petrol and diesel and others charge about 5pence a litre more for diesel - not many years ago that it was cheaper than petrol

Tax. When it was cheaper every started switching to diesel cars which had cheaper fuel and higher mpg, so the govt increased duty on diesel because it wasn't green and diesel owners could afford more as they got more mpg.
 
It is just for haulage.

so there is no guarantee that this will benefit anyone other than the haulage industry if anything happens as a result. For all we know they could end up lobbying that extra duty is put onto general pump fuel to counter any tax rebate/reduction in fuel duty for the haulage industry, and then the general populous is worse off.....
 
Fuel is high partly due to the cartel that is OPEC. That shower want smashing first. They deliberately keep oil production low to make more money.

If you have a diesel convert to vegetable oil as you can use 2500 litres a year tax free.

I'm wondering whether you can convert a petrol car to run on CNG and then use mains gas. You'd have to keep a log of how much you use as you would need to pay duty to be legal. But if you could find a source of biogas then I assume there's a break for bio fuels.
 
Guess if haulage can get fuel costs reduced wouldn't that mean reduced costs for us as surely suppliers would then reduce prices?
 
Guess if haulage can get fuel costs reduced wouldn't that mean reduced costs for us as surely suppliers would then reduce prices?

would it, or would it mean increased profits?:shrug: remember that in a way the haulage industry has us over a bit of a barrel if the industry all decided to not pass any savings on to the customer we would end up paying....

sorry but i dont agree that the haulage industry should be treated any different to the general motoring public.
 
I agree that we should all be treated the same. But on the other hand maybe some help for a business such as hauliers is a step in the right direction?
 
I didn't see it but if they were delivering turkeys how were they wasted miles :thinking:

I think it was Goole > Liverpool > Doncaster with nowt but a container of River Ouse fog delivered to Liverpool...
 
Fuel is too cheap as it seems lots of companies have distribution centres where items are sent up and down the country. I tracked a package that came from northampton. Instead of going into a Birmingham distribution centre it went all the way up to manchester to come back down south again!

Supermarkets send their food all over the place for packing, including abroad.

If anything the haulage industry and courier companies aren't charged enough for fuel. If they were they might not be so wasteful as to send packages all over the place.

It's also high time that aviation fuel was taxed. Why should airlines escape?
 
Tell you what, this red diesel don't half bring me out in a rash.
Makes your clothes stink as well !
 
srichards said:
I'm wondering whether you can convert a petrol car to run on CNG and then use mains gas.

Wouldn't have thought so. Think you need to be "approved" to do anything with mains gas, and i'd suspect that anyone who is an approved gas fitter would have a list of rules which probably includes "don't connect the mains gas supply to any tap with a hosepipe attached!"

David
 
It's also high time that aviation fuel was taxed. Why should airlines escape?

Escape what?... They wouldn't pay .......... We would!
 
Fuel is high partly due to the cartel that is OPEC. That shower want smashing first. They deliberately keep oil production low to make more money.

If you have a diesel convert to vegetable oil as you can use 2500 litres a year tax free.

I'm wondering whether you can convert a petrol car to run on CNG and then use mains gas. You'd have to keep a log of how much you use as you would need to pay duty to be legal. But if you could find a source of biogas then I assume there's a break for bio fuels.


our Mercedes E300 TD id already right from the factory 13 years ago viton seals, had some strange looks from supermarket shopper pouring veg oil in the tank in the car park, but no savings now use bio:thumbs:


Merc
 
:D:D

our Volvo V70 2.4D 08 car will run on this as well, looks like most Volvo and Mercedes engines will run on this stuff 100%, i would do a mix every now and again

Merc
 
:D:D

our Volvo V70 2.4D 08 car will run on this as well, looks like most Volvo and Mercedes engines will run on this stuff 100%, i would do a mix every now and again

Merc

I thought starting was difficult with bio/veggie ... due to the low viscosity especially in cold weather and that two tanks were required? :thinking:
 
:D:D

our Volvo V70 2.4D 08 car will run on this as well, looks like most Volvo and Mercedes engines will run on this stuff 100%, i would do a mix every now and again

Merc

Sorry but I have to dissagree with you :D
Some of the earlier mercs fitted with certain injection pumps are fine on veg oil, however veg oil is a thicker viscosity than diesel and in the winter can start to "gell" in the winter even the merc engines that are ok with veg oil will need a twin tank setup and a heat exchanger.
Anyone who is thinking of going down this route would be wise to visit http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk and look at the sticky by High Compression II, certain injection pumps are better than others.
My personal experience with veg oil is I wouldn't use it again, we ran an irrigation pump on it for one season and having a short run of exhaust pipe we could see clearly the extra glue like carbon that it produced, and eventually started to cause running problems, unless you are running waste veg oil I don't consider the saving to be worth the possible damage (common rail injectors can be £400 each)
 
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the guy behind it also sorted out the ghurkas,

I'm not sure which comment ought to come first so probably, but not necessarily in reverse order:

"Sorted out the gurkhas" - are they aware they've been sorted out?

And anyway, wasn't it Joanna Lumley who sorted it for the gurkhas?

Good luck with the petition - wonder how much notice any government ever took of any petition?
 
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