Focus On Movement

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universalady

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I've had my 550d a couple of weeks now, and I love it, infact find it hard to not be taking pics at the mo, although they're mainly of my dogs. Soooo, yesterday I was taking pics of them running round, the looked great on the lcd screen but not quite as 'crisp' on my PC, the subject looked a touch blurred. I must admit I was trying out different settings, but was wondering whether there should be something that I should start off with as a baseline, then start upping iso/shutter speed etc

I generally shoot in manual, with shutter speed at around 1/500 (for moving shots), and iso at either 400/800. It's also set to AI Focus, but not sure whether I should use all 9 focal points or just the central one? I also like taking continous shots so I can get at least one decent pic ;)

Would using a higher shutter speed bring the subject in better focus? Should I shoot in shutter speed as opposed to manual, don't get me wrong, I know practice is the key to this, but just a few words of advice would be greatly appreciated
 
universalady said:
I've had my 550d a couple of weeks now, and I love it, infact find it hard to not be taking pics at the mo, although they're mainly of my dogs. Soooo, yesterday I was taking pics of them running round, the looked great on the lcd screen but not quite as 'crisp' on my PC, the subject looked a touch blurred. I must admit I was trying out different settings, but was wondering whether there should be something that I should start off with as a baseline, then start upping iso/shutter speed etc

I generally shoot in manual, with shutter speed at around 1/500 (for moving shots), and iso at either 400/800. It's also set to AI Focus, but not sure whether I should use all 9 focal points or just the central one? I also like taking continous shots so I can get at least one decent pic ;)

Would using a higher shutter speed bring the subject in better focus? Should I shoot in shutter speed as opposed to manual, don't get me wrong, I know practice is the key to this, but just a few words of advice would be greatly appreciated
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Focus isn't the right term here if I understand you correctly. Your problem is motion blur? - that's very different to not being in focus.

A faster shutter speed will reduce motion blur (and yes, use Tv mode), but you may want to retain some sense of movement to avoid the "dead dog hanging in mid-air" look :thumbs:
 
Thanks Alastair, I think you're right, I am getting confused with motion blur. So I guess if i up the shutter speed, I will have to also up the iso won't I? otherwise the shots would come out darker? or would it be best to leave the iso on 'auto'?
 
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Whether you use Tv or M is irrelevant, the actual exposure settings are the important part. It doesn't matter how you get 1/500 ISO 400 and whatever aperture, just that you're getting it.

Are you following the dogs with the camera while taking photos or are you just pointing it at them and holding it still while taking photos? You need to track moving subjects.

Also you probably want to use AI Servo rather than AI Focus and manually picking the correct autofocus point is better than letting the camera choose for itself but it's a bit awkward to do on cameras without the multi-controller (little joystick-looking thing) on the back.
 
Hi DazJW, Having just read your post and then re-read my 1st post, I realised I put AI Focus, when I should have put AI Servo! I generally just point the camera at the spot for when the subject comes into view then follow it for a few snaps. So perhaps I should focus on the subject earlier and then follow it and take the pictures? Better start practising!

Should I just use the one central focus point then aswell? as opposed to all 9?
 
universalady said:
Hi DazJW, Having just read your post and then re-read my 1st post, I realised I put AI Focus, when I should have put AI Servo! I generally just point the camera at the spot for when the subject comes into view then follow it for a few snaps. So perhaps I should focus on the subject earlier and then follow it and take the pictures? Better start practising!

Should I just use the one central focus point then aswell? as opposed to all 9?
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Use centre-point with servo-AF, keep the shutter speed high and pick up the dog early to give the AF a chance to lock on to the head.

There's a fair amount of skill invloved, but you also need a good camera and quality lens to track action like that. You don't say which lens you've got, but the 550D doesn't have AF best suited to this kind of thing - 7D or higher spec camera. As you are doing, shoot lots on continuous frame mode. There's safety in numbers with this sort of thing.
 
Thanks HoppyUK, to be fair I'm a complete newbie to DSLR's, I thought the 550d would give me a good starting point for this sort of thing, the lens I'm using is a 55mm - 250mm (http://www.flashcamera.co.uk/canon-...utofocus-lens-for-select-digital-slr-cameras/) as I needed something which gives me a bit more zoom and also something with my budget.

I have been shooting in continuous frame mode, as sometimes the movement is quite fast so like you say, safety in numbers!
 
universalady said:
Thanks HoppyUK, to be fair I'm a complete newbie to DSLR's, I thought the 550d would give me a good starting point for this sort of thing, the lens I'm using is a 55mm - 250mm (http://www.flashcamera.co.uk/canon-...utofocus-lens-for-select-digital-slr-cameras/) as I needed something which gives me a bit more zoom and also something with my budget.

I have been shooting in continuous frame mode, as sometimes the movement is quite fast so like you say, safety in numbers!
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Nothing wrong with being a newbie, and TBH a lot of it could simply be down to inexperience and technique, and that will change.

But in technical terms, what you are trying to do, ie servo-tracking a dog that is probably moving fast and closing the distance rapidly, is the hardest thing for a camera/lens to do. Though it's unclear if your problem is focus or movement blur, I'm kinda guessing it's the latter. 1/500sec is not a high shutter speed for these things, but it's high enough to probably get at least some parts of the dog sharp even if paws etc are blurred (that can look nice BTW, gives a nice impression of movement, so long as the head is sharp.

But if the whole dog is blurred, that's more likely to be missed focus. In which case, with something like a dog you might be able to see on the ground in front or behind where the actual point of sharpest focus is. Need to post a pic.

Hone your technique and practise, and if you shoot plenty you'll get some good ones :) Also search for posts by tdodd. He a bit of an expert on this kind of thing and his pictures will encourage you. He's also very helpful and if he spots this thread he's sure to respond.

Edit: the AF system needs good subject contrast to get a solid lock-on. Eg, aim the camera at a plain wall and it probably won't focus at all, but give it something with a bit of light/dark detail and it will. If your dog is all one plain colour that won't help, but there's usually enough on the face with eyes and teeth etc for it to work with.
 
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Cheers HoppyUK, I have to say, with a SS of 1/500, I do get some parts of the dog very clear but the feet/legs or head might be a bit blurred. I shall be taking lots of pics over the weekend, so I'll have to post some up for a bit of feedback :)

I'll have a search for tdodd, and have a look, thanks
 
universalady said:
I generally just point the camera at the spot for when the subject comes into view then follow it for a few snaps. So perhaps I should focus on the subject earlier and then follow it and take the pictures? Better start practising!
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This is most likely the root of your problem, 1/500 seems fast but 100% freezing movement requires very high shutter speeds. You should always track a moving target with the camera to give the best chance of getting a sharp image and the faster your shutter speed is the more forgiving it will be.
Bear in mind that all the different parts of the dog are moving in different ways so if you track the dog with the camera you might get the bulk of the body sharp but other parts might be blurred. The dog's legs would blur because they're moving back and forth in a different way to the body, the head might be bobbing, the ears and tail will be flapping around and so on.
If you have a look at this image the same principle is at work even though it's not a dog. The bulk of the car is moving in a certain way so I tracked that movement, but the wheels blur because they're rotating around the axles, the dust is blurred because it's billowing up and the hay stuck to the side of the car is slightly blurred because it was fluttering in the breeze (you can't really see that in the Flickr image but you can in the original file).

You don't necessarily need to continuously focus on the subject if you know where it is going to go, you can pre-focus and wait for the subject to reach the place you pre-focused on, but you definitely need to move the camera to try and keep the subject in roughly the same place in the viewfinder.

universalady said:
Should I just use the one central focus point then aswell? as opposed to all 9?
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Any of the focus points individually should be fine, it's just that when you set the camera to use all nine you're actually setting it to make its own decision about which one(s) to use and it sometimes gets it wrong. It's no good using the centre point unless the subject (or the part of the subject) that you want to be in focus is in the centre. If you were composing an image with the subject in the lower left corner the centre point might not be the most appropriate point to use (for example I nearly always use the lower-left, bottom-centre or lower-right AF points for cars) but it's hard to change them quickly on a 550D. The higher models (other than the 60D) have a directional controller that you can use to pick AF points which makes it much easier.
 
Good advice from Daz, except on the AF point. The centre point is always more sensitive.

And with a running dog, I wouldn't worry too much about critical framing as it will probably compromise focus. Sort that out in post processing. Concentrate on nailing that AF point on the head, and also be aware that it is sensitive to a larger area than the little square in the viewfinder. That mostly makes things a bit easier, but you need to be aware of it.

Cars travelling across the frame are not very demanding of an AF system as the distance is relatively constant and the movement predictable. A dog running towards the camera at close range is compeletely different and is about the most testing subject for equipment you can get.
 
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thanks guys, I'm not going to worry too much about the composition of the image at the moment, but will have a go at using the center or bottom center focus point and trying following the subject with a higher shutter speed, fingers crossed
 
HoppyUK said:
Good advice from Daz, except on the AF point. The centre point is always more sensitive.
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My corner ones keep up with cars coming towards me at high speed and with our own dog running around. They're only iffy in low light.
That is with USM lenses though.
 
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Problem is, when the dog is running towards you, is that by the time you have found focus, the dog has moved X distance towards you and is again out of focus by the time the shutter opens.
 
Pegasus2 said:
Problem is, when the dog is running towards you, is that by the time you have found focus, the dog has moved X distance towards you and is again out of focus by the time the shutter opens.
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If you're using AI servo mode (or equivalent) then the camera focussing tracks movement, otherwise no-one would be able to get these shots:thinking: I once tested the 7d with an approaching rally car and fired off 13 shots, of which all but 1 was acceptably sharp. Modern AF is amazing.

In the old days of MF we had no focus tracking, so we used trap focus.

The earliest AF cameras had fairly bad focus tracking so actually had a trap focus mode where you'd set the focus distance and the camera would fire when something came into focus IIRC.
 
hi Ady (lady? :D).. since getting a Jack Russell dog last year, i've had some great practice trying to nail her in full flow... she's quick!
Here's an example of a couple i've took in the park... beautiful bright day.. but i needed as fast a shutter speed as possible, so i upped to ISO800 to get his at 1/1600th. This was using a 70-200mm f/4 lens.


Lucky01a.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr

then this one on the same day, ISO 800, f/4, 1/3200 with the same lens. Now, admittedly the lens certainly helped here, but this is the bottom rung of the ladder as far as the 70-200mm lenses go and can be picked up for pretty reasonable money.


Lucky04a.jpg by leftcurl, on Flickr

Both these shots were with centre focus (i seem to always use that), using Aperture Priority mode and ISO800 - then let the camera choose the shutter speed.. if you're not getting fast enough speeds, up the ISO. The grain will be negligible on a bright sunny day :thumbs:

Now go get 'em :thumbs:

also... i got into a routine of chucking the stick for the dog then getting down really low and then tracking her as she runs towards me.. each sprint would yield about 7 or 8 shots to choose from.
 
Wow Leftcurl, those shots are excellent, and what a little darling she is! Were both of these shot in Aperture mode? I was under the impression that Shutter Speed mode would be the one to use? **confused.com** lol Must add, I still haven't got my head round the Aperture mode yet, and still haven't got a clue what it does, and when it's best to use it

I shall definately be using both modes over the weekend to see what kind of results I get, the lens I will be using will be the 55mm - 250mm one, which I've been practising with over the last couple of weeks, and more recently practising panning over the last couple of days, hopefully I will be able to post a pic or two for you all to see
 
universalady said:
Were both of these shot in Aperture mode? I was under the impression that Shutter Speed mode would be the one to use?
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The mode is totally irrelevant, it's the exposure settings you get that matter. Whether you get 1/3200 f/4 ISO 800 in Tv mode or Av mode or you set it totally by yourself in M mode they're still the exact same settings.

It's just that if your important setting is the shutter speed, as it is in this case, you can set the shutter speed in Tv mode and let the camera handle the rest. If you're awake and paying attention you can use any mode you wish as long as you watch what the settings are doing.
 
universalady said:
Wow Leftcurl, those shots are excellent, and what a little darling she is! Were both of these shot in Aperture mode? I was under the impression that Shutter Speed mode would be the one to use? **confused.com** lol Must add, I still haven't got my head round the Aperture mode yet, and still haven't got a clue what it does, and when it's best to use it

I shall definately be using both modes over the weekend to see what kind of results I get, the lens I will be using will be the 55mm - 250mm one, which I've been practising with over the last couple of weeks, and more recently practising panning over the last couple of days, hopefully I will be able to post a pic or two for you all to see
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well for me... i made the mistake first of all by having ISO200, f/4 and thinking because of the bright sunshine i'd be getting high shutter speeds... i was only achieving something around 1/400 or so. So i upped the ISO which then gave me a minimum of 1/1600 while maintaining f/4 using aperture mode. I could have set the speed etc manually, but once i knew i was getting the right speeds with ISO800 i just left it at f/4 and snapped away without having to keep checking the settings. Hope that's a bit clearer.. i'm waffling a tad :bonk: :thumbs:
 
universalady said:
Wow Leftcurl, those shots are excellent, and what a little darling she is! Were both of these shot in Aperture mode? I was under the impression that Shutter Speed mode would be the one to use? **confused.com** lol Must add, I still haven't got my head round the Aperture mode yet, and still haven't got a clue what it does, and when it's best to use it

I shall definately be using both modes over the weekend to see what kind of results I get, the lens I will be using will be the 55mm - 250mm one, which I've been practising with over the last couple of weeks, and more recently practising panning over the last couple of days, hopefully I will be able to post a pic or two for you all to see
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As Daz said above. Exposure modes are a different subject and you need to bone up on the 'exposure triangle' as it is often known - shutter speed, lens aperture (f/number) and ISO). They all inter-act and can be mixed and matched according to the light and the settings you need.

The Av, Tv, P and M modes are just different/easier ways of accessing your preferred settings for a particular situation. The end result is the same.
 
Hi

I was trying a similar style with my dog running around in the park. I also use a 550D with a 24-105 lens, however I selected all the focus points as I thought that would catch the sharpest focus.

I was also checking you tube and looking at 5D3 focus points which has 61 and assumed this would be amazing for sports and catching movement as the more focus points then the sharper the picture. I must be totally wrong as it seems that the one point seems to be the best option, I shall try that tomorrow and post on here.

Thank you.

Mani
 
Mani Gill said:
Hi

I was trying a similar style with my dog running around in the park. I also use a 550D with a 24-105 lens, however I selected all the focus points as I thought that would catch the sharpest focus.

I was also checking you tube and looking at 5D3 focus points which has 61 and assumed this would be amazing for sports and catching movement as the more focus points then the sharper the picture. I must be totally wrong as it seems that the one point seems to be the best option, I shall try that tomorrow and post on here.

Thank you.

Mani
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The main use of multiple AF points in a pro grade camera is so you can choose the one point you want, or a small group, over almost any area of the frame. Can be better than focus-recompose technique with the centre point, but the centre AF point is more sensitive in difficult conditions.

If you use all the AF points and just let the camera choose, it will generally pick one or two that fall on the closest part of the subject, or it may get drawn to an area of particularly bright light or strong contrast. Either way, you have no control and when depth of field is shallow it's almost certain not to be exactly where you want it.

AF systems are superb these days, so much faster and more accurate than manual focusing, but you still have to tell the camera what to focus on.
 
Mani Gill said:
Hi

I was trying a similar style with my dog running around in the park. I also use a 550D with a 24-105 lens, however I selected all the focus points as I thought that would catch the sharpest focus.

I was also checking you tube and looking at 5D3 focus points which has 61 and assumed this would be amazing for sports and catching movement as the more focus points then the sharper the picture. I must be totally wrong as it seems that the one point seems to be the best option, I shall try that tomorrow and post on here.

Thank you.

Mani
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If you choose 'all focus points', you're actually saying, 'I haven't got a clue, I hope the camera can guess what I intend to shoot'.

The more focus points the camera has, the more chance that you can put one where you need to.

Does that make sense?

There's also expansion modes where you pick a FP and allow the camera to use adjacent points to help track focus. Improved focus systems are a godsend! BUT they are a tool for you to use, not something to take the decisions away from you.
 
Phil V said:
If you're using AI servo mode (or equivalent) then the camera focussing tracks movement, otherwise no-one would be able to get these shots:thinking: I once tested the 7d with an approaching rally car and fired off 13 shots, of which all but 1 was acceptably sharp. Modern AF is amazing.
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Is that with a USM or SWM lens?

I was shooting in servo and still had some blur, although I was shooting somthing faster than a rally car and with a kit lens.

Can slrs still track focus when the shutter is open?
 
Pegasus2 said:
Is that with a USM or SWM lens?

I was shooting in servo and still had some blur, although I was shooting somthing faster than a rally car and with a kit lens.

Can slrs still track focus when the shutter is open?
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Usm lens, 'blur' doesn't necessarily sound like a focus issue.

How fast are we talking? the rally car was approaching at approx 60 mph, I'd say your problems were kit lens/camera/technique in that order.

But I've no idea what the focussing is like on a 550d, my gut says its not as good as an xxD body.

Slrs don't actively focus whilst the mirror is up, but they predict movement, so if you're following a subject the AF isn't 'pausing', it's continuing to move with your subject.
 
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