Flash party photos

markw08

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Mark
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I have a 50d with a 430ex II flash on top.

When i take photos at an evening party/disco the photos are always washed out with a black background.

I tried setting camera to F5 and 1/25 which dont come out too bad but if people move the photos blur.

What would be the best setting for these type of photos ???

Thanks
 
Try dragging the shutter to increase the ambient light hitting the sensor to lift the background your flash will freeze the motion blur of foreground subjects. It's a great option for parties and discos

Search 'dragging the shutter' either on TP or Google ;)
 
If you don't want any blur at all, set the lens to the largest aperture it can go to (unless it's a really fast prime, as you'll have no depth of field in that case), something like f/2.8 would be ideal, otherwise however big you can get it. That'll capture as much light as possible, meaning a shorter exposure and less blur. Then adjust the flash to just illuminate the subjects without being overpowering!

Chris
 
easy way is to use camera in manual and flash in ttl

if its dark dark go for your widest aperture and an acceptable iso then pick a shutter speed that isn't too blurry and doesn't leave the bg too dark

the ttl flash will sort out the subjects ;)

sometimes in club type scenarios long shutterspeeds to catch the lights work quite well
 
It sounds like the problem is light fall off, basically the inverse square law - double the distance equals quarter the light.

Which in practise means that if you have someone very close to the camera at 2ft, then the next person 4ft away will have a quarter of the light on them (two stops) and anyone maybe 8ft away, perhaps at the end of the table, will be pretty much in darkness.

Solution a) Shoot from a different position so that everyone is roughly the same distance from the camera. b) Bounce the flash from the ceiling, if it is normal height and white, which spreads the light much more evenly and over a wide area.

Dragging the shutter, also called slow-sync flash, balances the flash exposure with a longer shutter speed to brighten the backgound not illuminated by the flash. Set the camera on Av and it will do this automatically by slowing down the shutter speed (if it does not, and the shutter speed is fixed on 1/250sec, you must enable the custom function - it's CF 1/7 on my 40D). The flash will freeze movement in the foreground but there will also be blurring and ghosting from the ambient light.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Would setting the flash to 2nd curtain help ??

How does the flash in TTL mode know how much power to output ??
If it is dark i assume it will just flash at full power...

Thanks
 
TTL mode on a flash is like having it on automatic. There is a light sensor on the front of the flash that calculates how much flash is required. Sometimes it will give you full power but sometimes it'll give you 1/16th power, it all depends on the situation.

I use Nikon so I can't comment on the Canon settings but on my flash it is called TTL FP. No idea what the FP stands for but it allows a slower shutter speed to let in ambient light as well as the flash light which freezes the action.
 
Try a manual exposure of 1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO and bounce the flash. Example (no edits except WB)....

20080829_203252_3012_LR.jpg
20080829_201650_2938_LR.jpg


You basically need an exposure that pulls in a decent amount of ambient light in order to expose the background reasonably well. The flash itself really just acts as a bit of topping up to put some pep in your subjects and for the bounced light to spread through the room and give a little more lift to the background.

Whatever you do, do not aim the flash straight at your subjects, unless you want point and shoot style results.

Here's another at 1/100, f/2.8, 1600 ISO, bounced/diffused flash (no edits)....

20080816_222531_7342_LR.jpg
 
That seems like very good advice to slow the shutter slightly, open the aperture and up the ISO to let the ambient light in but surely the amount you up the ISO should depend on the camera you have. Cameras at the lower end of the market don't handle high ISOs anywhere near as good as the top end cameras so with a cheaper camera then you'll start to see a lot of noise at ISO 1600. I have a D300 which is reasonable but I try to avoid ever using anything over ISO 800 where I can.
 
Mark has a 50D. The pictures I posted were taken with a 30D and 40D, which may not be entry level but are not high end either.

A well exposed photograph should not have much in the way of troublesome noise, even up to 1600 ISO. Of course better gear can be pushed further, but a little noise at 1600 ISO is easier to deal with and live with than a little blur at 800 ISO.

Here's a shot with my 50D at 1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO (Do you see a pattern emerging here? :) )....

20081130_163431_3003_LR.jpg


As for low end cameras, I have no personal experience of anything below the 30D, but it seems perfectly capable of turning in good results at 1600 ISO, and I haven't even begun to think about Neat Image or Noise Ninja yet.

Here's one from my 50D at 1/100, f/2.8, 3200 ISO, no edits except WB. I bumped the ISO and shutter speed because I was using my 70-200 and wanted to make sure I kept blur/shake in check, while shooting candids.

20081130_152757_2800_LR.jpg


Let's take a look at that 3200 ISO shot from the (much maligned) 50D at 100%, remembering this has had no sharpening or NR except Lightroom standard defaults....

20081130_152757_2800_LR-2.jpg


And finally, if we work it with some NR and crop to a more realistic amount, here's what we can end up with....

20081130_152757_2800_Neat_LR.jpg
 
nice pics.....so the higher iso and the f2.8 on manual, but what is the flash set on, I have a 550ex, do you set manual on that as well ?? or leave it on ttl ???
 
nice pics.....so the higher iso and the f2.8 on manual, but what is the flash set on, I have a 550ex, do you set manual on that as well ?? or leave it on ttl ???

ETTL all the way, but I do always bounce indoors, (sometimes with an Omnibounce, sometimes a white bounce card, sometimes with no modifier, but just using the room itself) and I do ride the FEC control to balance the flash output with the ambient light. That last shot was with -1/3 FEC.

The important thing is to make the flash lighting appear so subtle that you don't even notice that flash was used. You want to avoid harsh shadows from the flash, avoid hotspots on cheeks, nose and forehead, and balance the lighting between subject and surroundings. It should all look natural. I'm not saying I'm the master of these techniques, not by a long way, but I do at least try to make natural looking images with the flash not appearing obvious.

Read more on the techniques here - http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/.

Here you can see the results of some early tests I performed, with different modifiers and bouncing options. The images are terrible, but all I wanted to achieve was to see how the flash lighting behaved, how the subject was lit, how the room was lit by the flash, where the shadows fell and how ugly they looked....

http://picasaweb.google.com/EezyTiger/Flash
 
Cheers for that advice, I have never yet managed to get some natural looking shots that looked as if no flash was used. :bang:
Your images are so much better than anything I have ever achieved hence my interest !!

I am just looking at the manual for the flash for the FEC as its new to me...lol

Cheers for the guidance :thumbs:
 
An exposure with flash is basically two exposures which you combine. One exposure is for the ambient light. One exposure is for the additional light from the flash. Once you understand that, and figure out how to control the two exposures independently, you can then balance your lighting to get (almost) whatever effect you like. The skill is in finding the right point of balance.

If you ignore flash, for a moment, and just consider regular autoexposure, you have the Exposure Compensation control, which you can twiddle to make the exposure brighter or darker. When you use flash you have an equivalent control - Flash Exposure Compensation - that allows you to brighten and dim the flash part of the exposure in the same way.

However, what you tend to find in the real world is that for party/wedding scenes especially, the reflectivity of your subjects keeps changing with each new shot and composition. This makes it a nightmare to keep tweaking EC to compensate for the changing subject/scene. By contrast, the overall ambient lighting is normally pretty even across most of the room. By using manual exposure to control the ambient light you have one element of your photography to stop fussing about. It's enough to be thinking of composition, timing, focusing and flash control from one shot to the next without also having to fiddle with your ambient exposure. So, set up a solid manual exposure for the ambient lighting and just tweak FEC to fine tune the contribution from your flash.

That's the exposure side of things dealt with. That still leaves the quality and direction of the light to consider. I won't go into detail on that but the long and the short is that....

- a small light source, like a flashgun on its own, creates very distinct shadows, with hard edges. These can look really ugly when they fall visibly onto whatever is behind your subject. By making the source of light (much) larger, the light will wrap around your subject, partially filling in the shadowy area behind your subject and making the shadow edges soft, the shadows themselves less dark, and generally looking nicer altogether. Two main ways to make the light source appear larger are to use some sort of diffuser, like a softbox or umbrella, or to bounce the light off a wall/ceiling or both. For event type photography on the move I don't think that softboxes and umbrellas are very practical, so bouncing is the technique preferred by many.

- There is also the matter of the direction of the light, and distance from camera as well. If the flash is too close to the lens you may get redeye, so firing the flash straight at your subject from the flash gun is not ideal, plus there is the matter of nasty shadows in the wrong place too, especially when you shoot in portrait orientation and the flash ends up beside the camera. Side lighting is good, to create an impression of depth, with some shadows and highlights upon the subject, but not if there are harsh shadows, and you won't get much effect with the flash only a few inches from the lens.

So, by bouncing the flash you gain the advantage of enlarging the apparent source of the light, before it strikes your subject, plus you get to fill in behind your subject so the unwanted shadows pretty much disappear. By choosing your bounce angles carefully (think of bouncing a snooker ball off a cushion) you can achieve some directionality for the light, to enhance shapes a little, without the hard contrasty light you might otherwise find.

If you want to have a play around with bouncing then have a look at this website for some ideas for constructing your own flavours of bounce card....

http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/

I'm afraid some of the videos are agonisingly drawn out, but if you can bear with them you might learn some useful stuff.

More good stuff here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnn5nzPvoIM.
 
Thanks all,

Tdodd, that is exactly the type of photos i am after.
Normally i crank up the iso to 400 but never thought of going higher to 1600.

i have just bought a stofen type diffuser for my flash so i will give this a go to soften the flash output.

What sort of metering on the camera is best for this situation.
Spot, evaluative etc..

I find sometimes also i need to change to manual focus as the AF is hunting around trying to lock on..

Thanks again
 
I have learnt more reading this thread this morning than so many books and articles !!!!
Well explained and very helpful :notworthy:
 
Since you'll be shooting in manual mode, if you follow my advice, the metering mode doesn't really matter much. Just dial in a manual exposure that sucks in a decent amount of ambient light, chimp a couple of test images and the histogram and then you'll pretty much be set as far as your ambient exposure goes.

If you have an f/2.8 lens (or faster) then for any indoor shooting at night I think you'll find 1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO to be a good starting point. Just tweak from there if not. If you've got a slower lens, and/or (worse) one without a constant maximum aperture, then I think you'll just have to let the flash work harder to make up the shortfall, although as you've seen, the 50D can certainly do 3200 ISO if push comes to shove.

A Stofen style diffuser is a good starting point for trying these things out. However, one thing I forgot to mention so far is the matter of flash colour temperature. When you are using flash in an environment of tungsten ambient lighting, you will have two very different temperatures of light. The tungsten lamps will be around the 2800K mark (yellowish), while the flash will be at 5600K (blueish). When you mix those two temperatures there is no one white balance setting that can handle both at once.

Probably the best thing to do is to use an orange/yellow coloured Stofen, to bring the flash light closer in temperature to the ambient light, and then shoot everything with Tungsten white balance (or raw, of course ;)). Alternatively you can use a CTO (Colour temperature Orange) gel inside the Stofen to warm the flash light. If you don't take steps to match the colour temperature then you need to consider that the closer you are to your subject the bluer the light will look that falls onto your subject, as direct flash light from the Stofen will outweigh the contribution from ambient light and light bounced around the room. If the light is pretty much all bounced, rather than direct, then the light source will mix and average out to some value you probably can balance fairly well. If you can't get the balance sorted then just convert to B&W :)
 
I have learnt more reading this thread this morning than so many books and articles !!!!
Well explained and very helpful :notworthy:

I agree, thanks tdodd. :clap:

I have a 24-70 F2.8 lens so i will give your settings a go and i always shoot raw.

Thanks
 
Would this be a good idea to put this in the tutorial section ?????
There is so much good stuff with the links as well. It could well help many on here.
 
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