Flash newbie advice would be much appreciated!!!

johncook

johncook

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Hi everyone,

hoping I can get some advice on flash triggers.

I have a nikon D700, and am planning to buy an SB-700 flash.

Basically, I want to do some home studio style family shots. From what I've seen, off camera flash looks like the best lighting option.

The plan is to mount the SB-700 on a stand, off the the left or right to act as a light source (prefer not to bounce the light, but there is a large wall to the right of where I plan to do the shoot). I could soften this light a little if its too harsh.

But I'd like some advice on what to use as a trigger for the flash. I know you can use the pop up flash to act as a trigger, but dont really want the pop up flash to contaminate / affect the light in the portrait.

(1) what trigger devices are you all using? / would you recommend? I've heard about the pocket wizard set up. I dont really want to spend a lot on the remote trigger, and am not keen on cables to trip over.

(2) I also would like a wireless shutter release / remote for the camera, so any suggestions for this would be handy. again would like to avoid cables to trip over!

appreciate any advice / wisdom, as I am a total flash newbie!!

John
 
You are concentrating on flash,how about a steady light instead. I use one of these (google CN-160)


Also bought battery pack (2) no NP-F970/F960 to power it

For around £25 for unit and same for power pack + buying charge you have a constant powerful light which is easily portable and would fit into your hotshoe on the camera.

others suggest different lighting methods, and there is nothing wrong it that, but the setting up time and portability is worth considering.

Fitted to Nikon D800

us7p.jpg






q561.jpg
 
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Hi John,

I'd be going in the same direction with the flash (I have constant lighting and flash lighting) but I wouldn't get a single flash, I'd want at least 2 but ideally 3-4. You will also need stands and diffuses - easiest and cheapest would be some brackets & shoot through brollies.

In your case, instead of paying £150 for one, I'd get 3-4 Jessops 360's for £40 each second hand and either trigger one and slave the rest, or trigger all (makes no difference as you'll be in manual mode anyway).

The other benefit of this, as I found out in another thread, is that you'll have enough power to lower the flash power (duration) and freeze faster moving subjects (or capture some high speed stuff like people jumping etc).
 
thats interesting about the LED / constant light source.

the only experience of this LED light source I've had is when my in-laws got their wedding photographer to do a family portrait set at home.

the problem was the light seemed way too harsh and strong, there was a lot of shadows cast, the light just didnt look natural at all.

I also thought if I used a flash, I could control lighting of the subjects better, and keep the background darker. I'd be looking at using some sort of soft box to make the light nice and soft / more natural with less shadows cast

what do you think?

I could also get a separate constant light source to lighten a white sheet hung over the back wall to sort of blow it out and then use the flash (or what ever light source) to illuminate the people in the portraits for white background effect
 
Go with flash - you have a lot more control and much more power. As soon as you start to add in softening modifiers you'll lose 50% or something like that of your light power and since they are the same as ambient light, you have to remain high with your shutter speed, which means lots of constant light if going past f5.6 or so.

God knows how many LED lights you would need to properly light a portrait...
 
Phil Young said:
Oh and also...

*trigger's aren't 100% necessary - more often that not, I trigger my flash's with my pop up (set to 1/128th).*
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hi phil just trying to help so don't bite my head off there is no need to set your on board flash to a particular power setting !!! when you set the onboard flash to commander mode its sets its own power just enough to fire the slave flash without affecting the exposure. hth mike this info is for the op as well.
 
dinorock said:
hi phil just trying to help so don't bite my head off there is no need to set your on board flash to a particular power setting !!! when you set the onboard flash to commander mode its sets its own power just enough to fire the slave flash without affecting the exposure. hth mike this info is for the op as well.
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Lol I won't haha...

Yeah the reason I set it for 1/128th is for the reason you mentioned - it will trigger the slaves but won't add to the exposure.
 
Phil Young said:
Lol I won't haha...

Yeah the reason I set it for 1/128th is for the reason you mentioned - it will trigger the slaves but won't add to the exposure.
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thats my point you don't need to set 128 the flash won't use it anyway it sets its own power if you have a light meter try it, it will be the same whether you set 128th or full power hth mike.
 
after a couple of pm's back and forth i discovered phil (phil young) does not have nikon flash units, so my comments were incorrect for his equipment :banghead: however will work with nikon flash units cheers sorry for any confusion, mike.
 
johncook said:
Hi everyone,

hoping I can get some advice on flash triggers.

I have a nikon D700, and am planning to buy an SB-700 flash.

Basically, I want to do some home studio style family shots. From what I've seen, off camera flash looks like the best lighting option.

The plan is to mount the SB-700 on a stand, off the the left or right to act as a light source (prefer not to bounce the light, but there is a large wall to the right of where I plan to do the shoot). I could soften this light a little if its too harsh.

But I'd like some advice on what to use as a trigger for the flash. I know you can use the pop up flash to act as a trigger, but dont really want the pop up flash to contaminate / affect the light in the portrait.

(1) what trigger devices are you all using? / would you recommend? I've heard about the pocket wizard set up. I dont really want to spend a lot on the remote trigger, and am not keen on cables to trip over.

(2) I also would like a wireless shutter release / remote for the camera, so any suggestions for this would be handy. again would like to avoid cables to trip over!

appreciate any advice / wisdom, as I am a total flash newbie!!

John
Click to expand...
here you go john, guy is american so excuse his poppy uppy flash comments but the rest is relevant. hth mike

 
thanks guys.

still thinking about the optimum set up.

I think I'll need a speedlight to do some low key photos with dark back grounds.
 
John, how serious are you about home portraits? If it's something you want to get stuck in to, then just get a studio flash head. They're not expensive (under £200, eg Elinchrom, Lencarta) and they will give you a modelling light so you can see what you're doing, and will recycle fast. You may be surprised at how useful/invaluable these things are. If you just want to see how it goes, then every photographer should have a decent flash gun anyway, so that's effectively a zero cost starting point, and flash guns integrate well with studio lights too.

With either option, put it on a stand with a shoot-though umbrella, trigger it from the D700's pop-up as described above, or just go for a cheap manual radio trigger set like Yongnuo - they work great, will fire anything from anywhere, and you want to be in full manual mode for studio work. Add a reflector to fill-in the shadow side.

It is easily possible to get excellent results like this. Studio work is much more about a bit of knowledge and understanding than kit. For newcomers, starting with multiple lights before you know how to control them will just look a mess. Then have a go with white and silver umbrellas to vary the light quality (cheap as chips, easy to put up/down). Then add a background light, then a third hair/effects light fitted with different modifiers and you're sorted.

Personally, I'd forget continuous light as it's generally feeble and limiting. The brightest available at sensible money is the Lencarta Quad, and that's marginal at best.

Edit: for low-key effects, go for a softbox with grid. Also, since low-key work is more about shadows, carefully placed, seriously suggest a studio head with modelling light - 10x easier :thumbs:
 
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well, if all goes well, I'll use the studio set up at home a fair bit, just for family portraits.

will have a look at studio flash heads too. thanks for the suggestion
 
johncook said:
well, if all goes well, I'll use the studio set up at home a fair bit, just for family portraits.

will have a look at studio flash heads too. thanks for the suggestion
Click to expand...

John, also see my edit above re softbox and grid :)
 
Please don't even consider getting one of those video lights for this, it's nowhere near powerful enough and even more importantly, it's virtually impossible to control the light in any way.

If you're going to get hotshoe flashguns, Yongnuo are probably your best bet for this. And get a Yongnuo RF-602 or similar radio trigger/receiver set to trigger them, far better than relying on optical slaves, for various reasons.

You may, just about, be able to get some kind of result with one hotshoe flashgun off camera, with a white reflective umbrella + some kind of reflector for fill - but it isn't the ideal setup and is very much a poor relation of a studio flash kit, which doesn't actually cost much more but which has modelling lamps, fast recycling, consistent colour temperature and far more power. Please remember that lighting is about control of the light, which is about lighting position, type of modifier etc., with the objective of lighting in a way that flatters the subject. It isn't about having enough light of some kind, so that there can be an adequate exposure
 
John,

It sounds like your best options are a studio flash kit, or a couple/few cheap flash guns.

To narrow that down further the biggest question would be - do you want to take your lighting on location / outside? If no, studio heads would be best, if yes, flash guns.
 
sk66 said:
Depends on if using the pop-up flash as commander or as optical trigger.
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sk66 said:
Depends on if using the pop-up flash as commander or as optical trigger.
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yeah we worked out he was using as an optical trigger as his flash guns are not nikon and therefore could not use commander mode eg no cls
 
Phil Young said:
John,

It sounds like your best options are a studio flash kit, or a couple/few cheap flash guns.

To narrow that down further the biggest question would be - do you want to take your lighting on location / outside? If no, studio heads would be best, if yes, flash guns.
Click to expand...


I'd like the flexibility to do that so speed light is more attractive as an option
 
I must admit, studio lights are nice to work with, they recycle quickly, you don't need to burden yourself with charging batteries all the time but...I can stick a flash gun on my gorillapod anywhere I go:woot:
 
johncook said:
I'd like the flexibility to do that so speed light is more attractive as an option
Click to expand...

Flash guns are fine outside for fill-in flash, and usable in lower ambient light, but to over-power the sun with a decent modifier, eg softbox, you need a lot more power.
 
HoppyUK said:
Flash guns are fine outside for fill-in flash, and usable in lower ambient light, but to over-power the sun with a decent modifier, eg softbox, you need a lot more power.
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There's an easy, flexible solution to that as well Richard - a cheap bracket and more guns through one diffuse. 2 flash's on full power will be more than enough in most situations.
 
Phil Young said:
There's an easy, flexible solution to that as well Richard - a cheap bracket and more guns through one diffuse. 2 flash's on full power will be more than enough in most situations.
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No way. In my experience you need at least 600Ws to overwhelm bright sunlight, and that assumes a pretty undiffused light, very close to the subject.

It can be done with hotshoe flashguns at full power, but it needs a minimum of 5, not 2
 
Phil Young said:
There's an easy, flexible solution to that as well Richard - a cheap bracket and more guns through one diffuse. 2 flash's on full power will be more than enough in most situations.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's one way, though two flash guns is only double the power, one stop more light. Four would be better ;)

The big difference is, indoors you can effectively double the flash output if needs be by raising ISO one stop, or two stops to quadruple it, and so on - that works well. But outdoors, the ambient light sets the minimum power level and to beat daylight the flash simply has to be brighter and there's no easy way around that apart from more power, sometimes a lot more power, coupled to technical issues with x-sync speeds etc.

Can all be done of course, just making the point that there's more to flash outdoors than not having mains. Easy answer, pick your time and place, eg overcast, later in the day.

Edit: crossed post with Garry.
 
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Given what you've said about wanting to maybe take the kit outdoors and the fact you are starting off then personally I'd say a good starter 'kit' would be:

2x Yongnuo 603's
1x Yongnuo 568
1x white shoot through umbrella
1x light stand
1x umbrella & hotshoe mount

The Yongnuo 568 is a pretty powerful flash and much cheaper than the SB700. With the price difference you could literally get the other components and still have change.

If you are starting out I assume you won't be trying to overpower the summer sun a lot. If/when you do, just get your lightstand/assistant closer to the family for now. On 1/1 with the head zoomed in, the YN-568 kicks out a lot of power. I am using speedlights at the moment for OCF work on weddings and i must admit I'm getting to the point where I'm considering a portable strobe light but I think the above will be a good starting point.
 
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