Flagship German luxury cars. BMW 7er, S class or A8

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Ranger Smith
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So, whilst I am still serving my disqualification its 365 sleeps and its over. The time has come to consider what I should buy as a car for myself. Now, for the record, I am not complaining about my punishment or that the police caught me. Nor will I be driving fast or flogging the car, so if you have nothing useful or helpful to say, then don't please.

However, I don't want to be obeying the speed limits in a crap box and think really for my law abiding future I need a proper big luxury car.

I looked carefully into the BMW 7 series. Looks like a lot of expensive issues with the N57 timing gear fault and the earlier M47's can give issues. I won't be getting one, but £14k for a 58reg 55k miles BMW 730d is a great buy, if the thing doesn't break.

Mercedes S320cdi/S350cdi. The defacto choice and having had 3 Mercedes before, I could easily get another. I've driven numerous S classes, great comfortable cars. Effortless drive.

Audi A8 - this sort of thing- http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/classi...tro-se-4dr-tip-auto/2279225?isexperiment=true

I'm trying to dig the dirt to find know issues. The ZF 6speed box is AFAIK reliable, few minor electrical gremlins but I cannot find links or pages giving fault with the V6TDi. Anyone here run a VAG car with a 3.0TDi engine or indeed an Audi A8. I like the idea of the 4wd and sticking some winter tyres on it will make it totally ideal for winter trips up Glencoe and Glen Etive.

Before anyone digs about insurance, its not a problem, they weigh in at £700pa even with a DD40 conviction.

A8 or S class, what would you buy?
 
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I know the 221 foibles and they are fabulous car, solid, reliable, economical, comfortable.

I just wonder, given the spaceframe construction, if the Audi isn't a bit better. It's a long way off, but guess its an itch I feel I have to scratch or is the omnipotence of the Mercedes too much to ignore. A family member has an S class, and I had thought I'd take it off them (they've had it since new) once they are done, I'd know the history on it so I know I will have an S class (I'm not letting that car go) but for 2-3years would a stop gap S class be the thing, or try this A8 thing out.
 
If I was in that position, knowing the S class will be available in 2-3 years, I'd be tempted to scratch that itch while I could.

Don't know much about cars by the way. Just seems logical.
 
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I think your missing something by focusing on German, the current Jaguar range has some of the finest large saloons on the market and much more athletically pleasing IMO, reliabilty of the entire JLR range is not the joke it used to be either
 
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I will not entertain a Jaguar or Land Rover product.

I am a German car nut. Sorry. The car has to make me feel good, I just couldn't love a Jag or Land Rover.

Audi 3.0TDi V6, does much break on them? Anyone ran an A8 here?
 
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ST4 said:
I will not entertain a Jaguar or Land Rover product.
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Interested in your reason - bad experience?

Out of your choices so far I would ditch the Audi. It has to be one of the blandest looking motors out there and the BM isn't far behind. Purely my viewpoint though.
 
I was also going to say Jag XF series, car porn all the way! I've had Audi's, Merc's, and we're still sat with our Jag and over the moon with it, decent leather, reliable engineering, good MPG, plenty of grunt and it still adds class wherever you go ;)
 
stupar said:
Interested in your reason - bad experience?

Out of your choices so far I would ditch the Audi. It has to be one of the blandest looking motors out there and the BM isn't far behind. Purely my viewpoint though.
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I like a much more conservative design. Audi, IMHO, have the design licked. The older Mercedes (W211 and W220) were great descreet designs as was the BMW E39 5 series.

I think the new XJ is a massively ugly car, and the older one gives a lot of issues. I wouldn't have a land rover product, I just hate the things.

XF only has 4 star NCAP and is based on the old S type floor plan which owes itself to the Lincoln town car. It's just not for me. I want the full size luxury car, not the mid size exec. Just an itch I need to scratch.
 
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If I were to touch another Audi, it would definitely be a TDI variety, the petrol engines are snappy but the TDI offers similar power with better fuel economy plus it's built like a Sherman tank
 
Flightphoto said:
If I were to touch another Audi, it would definitely be a TDI variety, the petrol engines are snappy but the TDI offers similar power with better fuel economy plus it's built like a Sherman tank
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Got to be a derv, 35mpg-40mpg is fine, 22mpg is a bit juicy for my miles.I'm assuming the engine is a pretty reliable affair?
wack61 said:
Vw phaeton maybe
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Good shout, I heard there was an issue with alumium rivets used in on steel body panels so there was a corrosion issue, or is this a myth as I'd take a Pheaton gladly.
 
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You need to drive an Alfa to understand fuel consumption :D I had an Alfa GTV 3.0V6 for a few years as a toy, I did all the subtle mods to gain some more power out of the Italian V6 and pushed out around 265bhp and with the Ragazzon exhaust it sounded like a rolls royce merlin purring through the dartford tunnel :D
 
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Flightphoto said:
You need to drive an Alfa to understand fuel consumption :D I had an Alfa GTV 3.0V6 for a few years as a toy, I did all the subtle mods to gain some more power out of the Italian V6 and pushed out around 265bhp and with the Ragazzon exhaust it sounded like a rolls royce merlin purring through the dartford tunnel :D
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My X5 4.4i averaged 15mpg....7.8mpg around town or when gunning it.

I don't want a four clyinder diesel car, they are noisy and unrefined. I want a diesel 6. The best car I had was an E320cdi. It, in germany, would run over 150mph no problem, averaged 37mpg (my E220cdi averaged 38mpg) and on a good road surface at 100mph the loudest thing was the clock tick (in Germany).

A W211 E class would be great, but I owned 2 already. The W204 C class was a real down grade. Totally reliable but uncomfortable and gruff engine in 220cdi. A nice A8 or S class would be just the thing.
 
Darn it, the Mrs was keen on an X5 but if the fuel economy is that bad then she can sod off!!!!
 
My boss had an A8. At the time I'd bought a new Golf GTI. He took me for a ride in his car and it was supersmooth. The engine was silent. Very comfortable. Went back into my car and it sounded and felt like a tractor. I thought there was something wrong!
 
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If it was me buying I'd go for the A8, but I'm just bias. If Merc's are anything like they used to be a couple years ago then it will be a bucket of rust within a few years. I'm a spray painter and I have a few good mates in surrounding bodyshops and most of the horror stories have come from the Mercedes garage.

Apart from bodywork though I'm not up to speed with which cars are reliable or not but I've never had many MAJOR issues with Audi's. I've had the odd stupid little problems here and there like sensors going and putting them in limp mode, but apart from that and general servicing Audi's/VW's have been great for me. I might just be lucky. Every car gets stupid little problems though no matter how good of a make they are. I owned a 2008 3.0tdi quattro A6 estate for a while and it was great. MPG wasn't bad for being a built like a tank and it fairly shifted. I'm not sure if it's the same engine as the A8 that you're looking at though.

My problem though is I modify every car I get lol. I have some "toys" in my garage and getting into my daily car after having a play in them just makes it feel like a slug. The first thing I do with diesel cars, regardless of the fact whether I want to rag it or not is put a decent remap on it and remove the DPF, great power gains and normally helps MPG as well.
 
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Researched the Phaeton, they've got quite a serious corrosion issue. I hate corrosion. D3 A8's can corrode but its very minor blemishes. I'm really leaning towards an A8. Corrosion does worry me re 221 S class. I had a 211 E class x2, one started to rust one didn't. The rear wheel arch liners rubbed against the arch causing it. IIRC the 221 S slcass has the same design. The newer 204/212 C/E series don't but I don't really want either of those.
 
An Alternative:

I have been lucky enough to have had a few big cars in my time, A6, A8, E240,XJ, Mk2 Jag etc....... Never liked Beamers though.

The only luxury car I would ever consider again would be a Lexus LS. I had a LS400 a few years ago and in my opinion it was far superior to all other cars I have owned. For the money you can pick these up for, they are fanatastic cars. When these first came out they would demonstrate how quiet and stable the cars where by filling a glass of champers or stand a coin on edge and place on rocker/head, the cars wouldn't spill any champers or the coin wouldn't fall.

An example of the value of these cars is below, I believe it would have been close to 80k new, the current new ones are over 100K.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-ca...r-auto-dartford-fpa-201406104900713?logcode=p
 
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ST4 said:
If the Lexus was diesel powered it would be on the short list. Ive driven Toyotas and they make a good solid dependable car.
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Diesel for the economy??? Lexus also do a Hybrid these can give you about 35mpg and another alternative is to have them LPG converted. When I had my LS about 6 years ago it was common for them to be LPG converted, due to the V8 fuel economy.

An example of the Hybrid which is also 4WD

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201304166294485/sort/default/usedcars/make/lexus/postcode/sa66su/onesearchad/used,nearlynew,new/model/ls/radius/1500/page/1/fuel-type/hybrid?logcode=p


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...radius/1500/page/1/fuel-type/hybrid?logcode=p

Edit: Click on the specs lower in the advert, how do these compare to the A8 & Mercs???
 
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Spec in any flagship motor is bonkers but them Lexus rear seats look great for sleeping in.

I know as a company they have a customer care second to non and reliability wise they are a sure thing. It's a few k more than an A8 but terrific value for money. It's on my radar now.
 
With those rear seats I would be happy with long distance driving, just pull up in a lay by and do a bit of shut eye for an hour or two!
 
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A guy I know uses a MOT station in Blackburn

The owner has a Q7, ABS light came on, sensor fault, abs on whenever he brakes, puts a new sensor on, no different, takes it to audi, they diagnose the same fault so they fit a genuine one, still the same so he leaves it with them, next day he gets a phone call, we've found the fault, water in the ECU connector has corroded the ABS pin, needs a new loom £8,000, dash out, interior outrebuild 1/2 the car.

with much power comes much responsibility

one thing you can be sure of is when a 60k car goes wrong you'll get a 60k car size bill to go with it even if it's a 5k car now.
 
Ok offbeat suggestion - Porsche Cayenne. Fast , comfortable, comes with a variety of power units
 
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wack61 said:
A guy I know uses a MOT station in Blackburn

The owner has a Q7, ABS light came on, sensor fault, abs on whenever he brakes, puts a new sensor on, no different, takes it to audi, they diagnose the same fault so they fit a genuine one, still the same so he leaves it with them, next day he gets a phone call, we've found the fault, water in the ECU connector has corroded the ABS pin, needs a new loom £8,000, dash out, interior outrebuild 1/2 the car.

with much power comes much responsibility

one thing you can be sure of is when a 60k car goes wrong you'll get a 60k car size bill to go with it even if it's a 5k car now.
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I've ran E classes and X5s before. I know the pitfalls of high end cars but decent specialists and unless you're unlucky it's not too bad. Find one that's not been rear ended or something posh cars are great.
 
I've had two 7 series before....Much prefer them as a drivers car over the S class and the A8....A8 quottro is nice though....And my 7's have been a V12 and V8....Much prefer that over the diesels....

PS. My current motors are my Golf R as a daily hyper hatch, and our Mercedes GL AMG as the family car....I could really recommend the latter if you want a large luxury barge...Think 4x4 S class, it's big, its fun seeing the scary looks on little Micra driver faces :devil:
 
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It depends on your mileage. If you do a lot of miles fair enough. I would do the sums personally. The difference in capital outlay between the 760 and 730 at the time was so much in favour of the 760 that I could drive it for four years before the 760 started to cost more money.
 
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