FITP Hilite - the story continues - Update 29/3

Hodders

Hodders

Suspended / Banned
Messages
951
Name
Ben
Edit My Images
Yes
FITP was kind enough to send me some of his white corner panels for the hilite. I fitted these with velcro and it was quite fun being 'inside' the hilite.

It has helped getting the corners up to scratch in terms of getting rid of the previous dead patches.

I also wanted to have a better 'play' with my vinyl floor.

So here goes. Using two speedlights on low power to blow out the join seems to have worked pretty well:

blown-2.jpg


As you can see the join is pretty well blown without too much spill forwards.

So lets put me in the way:

First shot is with no pp at all straight out of the camera.

IMG_1775.jpg


Then with a very quick and dirty bit of PP:

IMG_1775pp.jpg


Finally a smaller subject (I am 6'2") actually works really well. Again straight out of the camera:

IMG_1781.jpg


The last thing I tried was to put black material to make walls and ceiling to try and control the spill.

The shots below are with no key light, just the hilite, with the blackout:

IMG_1757.jpg


Then same settings without the black out - it did cut down the spill a lot:

IMG_1759.jpg


As always, comments would be fab.....

I am still concerned about the lack of 'punch' in the images of me, but this probably comes down to me wearing dull clothes and still getting too much spill. As a contrast the ride on airplane has come out pretty well.
 
This is pretty impressive! can I ask what lights you used to light the hi-lite and also what did you use for your train?

Thanks :)
 
The lack of punch is due to flare. The background shouldn't be blowing out fully. I've experimented with this a lot. If you light the background just short of blowing out, flare is reduced which means contrast is greater. There is no getting away from PPing the HiLite and especially the train. Trying to blow it all out in one hit is going to result in flare. No getting away from it unfortunately.
 
Thanks for adding this, it is really helpful to see how someone else is working with the Hilite.

I think if you get rid of some of the spill then increase the keylight then the pic of your good self would be improved & give it that 'punch' you mentioned, but I'm no expert.

As you mention, the toy shot doesn't have this problem so maybe it's the position of the key light. I dunno, what Chris said sounds sensible to me
 
Yeah key light is important.

The hilite is overexposed, the key underexposed, turn the background lights down a touch, shoot at 1/125th, and make sure the key light is close enough to the subject.
 
chrisgeary said:
The lack of punch is due to flare. The background shouldn't be blowing out fully. I've experimented with this a lot. If you light the background just short of blowing out, flare is reduced which means contrast is greater. There is no getting away from PPing the HiLite and especially the train. Trying to blow it all out in one hit is going to result in flare. No getting away from it unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Agreed. You are also getting a wraparound effect from the softbox (which of course is what it actually is) and the only way to avoid that is to have the subject much further away from it.
 
You need more light in the front. That will help a lot.

I agree that flare is a problem. The best way is to use screens to shield the camera but that is awkward and a good lens hood would improve things considerably. By good, I mean really good, like this Kood bellows hood for £35 - made by the same people that make the Lee hoods I believe (but half the price). You can also slot a piece of black card into the front to make sure it cuts everything outside the frame http://www.premier-ink.co.uk/photographic/square-filters/p-type/kood-ptype-bellows-hood-p-1259.html

Looking at your shots, I'd like to see what it looks like with the exposure adjusted so that the blinkies are only just showing in the very brightest areas, to see how over-exposed the hot spots are. I think it will show a range of a few stops, which is making everything very difficult with flare and bleaching of the subject outline.

Looking at your set up, I'm not sure that the High-Light is actually helping at all. I can get better than that with a plain paper background. The advantage being that the lights you've got in the High-Light can be positioned to not only light the background but also the join to the floor, which of course is much smoother with a paper curve. You might not need the second pair, or at least they would need to do less work and cause less problems - looks like they are absolutely blitzing the join at the minute.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Agreed. You are also getting a wraparound effect from the softbox (which of course is what it actually is) and the only way to avoid that is to have the subject much further away from it.
Click to expand...

I have the village hall booked next week - at the moment I am in my dining room and it is about 10' by 14'. The extra space should help loads.

tiler65 said:
Yeah key light is important.

The hilite is overexposed, the key underexposed, turn the background lights down a touch, shoot at 1/125th, and make sure the key light is close enough to the subject.
Click to expand...

Good stuff - I'll give it a go when I get set up in the village hall.

DDP said:
Cheer up man! ;)
Click to expand...

I was feeling sick and tired of pressing self timer, running around and standing in front of the camera. I might get my wife to step in in the hall, or try and find a doll/subject that would work a bit better - and look a load better !

Thanks everybody for the feedback, it really helps.
 
Reading through Edinburgh Gary's very helpful guide on how he got his white BG stuff working the reflective flooring seems to have been really key.

I don't have a dedicated studio so whatever solution I put in place will have to be portable. So I have been scanning the net for a portable reflective flooring and I think I have found something at a reasonable cost.

4mm thick 1520mm x 1020mm sheets of acrylic sheets at £25 per sheet They will sit on top of my white vinyl (or my grey BG) and should be highly reflective.

A couple of these sheets will make an area of 1520x2040 and will fit easily into the back of my car. Four sheets would give me 3m x 2m. They should stay put when resting on the vinyl or could be joined with white tape on the underside.

I have asked for a sample and will have a play (with a very small subject) when it arrives.
 
Hodders - I have just bought some similar stuff from Wickes and will be trying that hopefully this weekend - I'll try and post some images. I've opted for one large sheet as I wasnt confident that the joins would work too well so I'll be interested to hear how you get on with them!

Jeremy.
 
That looks promising for a portable set up. I'll keep my eye out for your updates.
 
Jchaplin said:
Hodders - I have just bought some similar stuff from Wickes and will be trying that hopefully this weekend - I'll try and post some images. I've opted for one large sheet as I wasnt confident that the joins would work too well so I'll be interested to hear how you get on with them!

Jeremy.
Click to expand...

I've looked locally for a source and failed. Was it a large Wickes ?

I look forward to seeing your test shots....
 
I bought some white uPVC in 3mm, 1200 x 2400 sheet for a splashback. It's thin, light and highly reflective and cost £25 + vat from a trade uPVC facings company. It can be cut part way through with a Stanley knife to form a hinge but don't know how often it would bend before breaking. It could be easily joined with tape and might be just what is needed for a reflective floor or backdrop.
 
Derek_W said:
I bought some white uPVC in 3mm, 1200 x 2400 sheet for a splashback. It's thin, light and highly reflective and cost £25 + vat from a trade uPVC facings company. It can be cut part way through with a Stanley knife to form a hinge but don't know how often it would bend before breaking. It could be easily joined with tape and might be just what is needed for a reflective floor or backdrop.
Click to expand...

So you would not ned anything white underneath it, is that correct?
 
I wouldn't think so. It's an easy clean, durable white reflective surface that you would find on the walls of professional kitchens. The 1200 x 2400 sheets can be rolled up to just fit in a car but it's quite rigid, not unlike Formica laminate.

(I'm not sure if I described it correctly as uPVC, it might just be PVC)
 
Derek_W said:
I wouldn't think so. It's an easy clean, durable white reflective surface that you would find on the walls of professional kitchens. The 1200 x 2400 sheets can be rolled up to just fit in a car but it's quite rigid, not unlike Formica laminate.

(I'm not sure if I described it correctly as uPVC, it might just be PVC)
Click to expand...

Can you remember the name of the company you bought it from as large sheets that can be rolled up sound ideal ?
 
Hodders said:
Reading through Edinburgh Gary's very helpful guide on how he got his white BG stuff working the reflective flooring seems to have been really key.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that guide?

thanks
 
It's one of the threads on the forums here. The search function should find it.

Also google Zack Arias and white background for another great resource.
 
Hodders said:
Can you remember the name of the company you bought it from as large sheets that can be rolled up sound ideal ?
Click to expand...

I can't unfortunately. I don't think it's a national company but most big towns have a supplier of uPVC fittings. I had gone in to buy a length of edging for my bath but they didn't have the size I needed in stock and the chap suggested the large sheet and to cut it to fit.

After spending some time searching the net it's called rigid PVC sheeting and available in 2, 2,5 and 3mm but there's not many prices displayed and carriage is expensive so collection would be the only way. Most prices advertised were more than I paid. If you PM me your address I'll pop a cutting in an envelope.
 
Right then. Had a couple of hours in the local village hall. Wow what a difference space makes ! Subject was about 5 feet from the hilite - plus I tried to smile !

I have reached the conclusion that without a reflective floor it is all but impossible to get a white floor out of camera without losing all contrast. I have found some 3mm thick gloss white acyrlic sheets at 1520x1020 at £33 each so I reckon I will order a couple and see what difference they make.

The shots below were with the following settings:

Background reading F13, subject reading F9, key light was about 4 foot up with a 120cm soft box.

Shot 1: No key - as you can see, not much spill.

mh-1.jpg


Right then, now to a shot with the key light on. There is a fair bit of PP here tidying up the floor/join. But I am pleased with the level of contrast.

mh-2.jpg


Finally I upped the power on the hilite to about f20 and raised the key light to about 7 foot just off camera left and aimed down just in front of the subject (in an attempt to get the floor brighter) It also has the benefit that the distance from the key light varies less (as does the light) over a wider area of the floor.

The *only* PP is a little tidying up on the join. The floor and the shadow are as came out of the camera.

I am chuffed with this last one.

mh-3.jpg
 
Looks very interesting.

Increasing the Hilite has dealt with the floor nicely behind you. Have to give that a try.

Is the PVC you have found local or online?
Any idea whether they can be rolled for transportation?

keep up the good work.

Is the clock so you don`t over-run and clash with the derby and joan`s arriving? LOL
 
Shutterbox said:
Looks very interesting.
Is the PVC you have found local or online?
Any idea whether they can be rolled for transportation?
Click to expand...

It is at http://www.casupply.co.uk/acatalog/coloured_acrylic_sheets.html

They are sending me a sample - I'll keep you posted.

I also found this:

http://www.brettmartin.co.uk/semifinished/marpet/index.aspx

I am trying to get a sample of that as well as it sounds ideal....

Shutterbox said:
Is the clock so you don`t over-run and clash with the derby and joan`s arriving? LOL
Click to expand...

It was to make up for all the muted/dull colours I was wearing.... ;)
 
Hodders said:
Background reading F13, subject reading F9, key light was about 4 foot up with a 120cm soft box.
Click to expand...

I have been playing with my hilite and settings, and one thing i cant get straight is the metering.

Today i had the keylite on full whack, and was only getting a background reading of F11, and was using what i read should be a two step rule and using F22 for the subject.

My confusion lies in what setting do i enter inter into the camera, and from my readings,

Any suggestion to help me on my way?

cheers
 
donkeymusic said:
I have been playing with my hilite and settings, and one thing i cant get straight is the metering.

Today i had the keylite on full whack, and was only getting a background reading of F11, and was using what i read should be a two step rule and using F22 for the subject.

My confusion lies in what setting do i enter inter into the camera, and from my readings,

Any suggestion to help me on my way?

cheers
Click to expand...

Not sure you've got that right - the background should be brighter than the subject.

Basically you set the camera to expose for the subject correctly, then set the background lights so that they are brighter and the white blows into over-exposure, ie pure white.

Although two stops is often mentioned, it is actually too much and that's where you get outline bleaching and flare from. All you need is a fraction of over-exposure - a tenth of a stop is enough, but in practise if you aim for half a stop that is about as good as you'll get. I would say up to one whole stop is probably okay but go higher than that and you'll start getting those bleaching/flare issues creeping in.

Depending on how lucky you are, many people seem to be pushing the background light quite a lot higher than that in order to get pure white all over and have some hope of getting a white train. It's difficult ;)

One way to get the exposure balance right is to set the front light and exposure for that, then with blinkies enabled on the LCD, keep turning up the background lights until they just flash. That's then blown to pure white, and you know where you are.
 
Where did you get the big sheet of vinyl from ? I've been searching for some but not been able to find any .
 
BigJohn said:
Where did you get the big sheet of vinyl from ? I've been searching for some but not been able to find any .
Click to expand...

Tony Beal Ltd. (www.tonybeal.com) They do awnings for artics and are v.cheap. The stuff I got was the white vinyl at about £7 per meter off the roll (roll is 2.5m wide).
 
Ben, did they deliver the vinyl on the roll I saw in your photos or was that yours?

How crease-friendly is it? Are you better rolling it up or can you fold it and get away with it because the acrylic sheets then iron out any creases?
 
The vinyl was delivered by Tony Beal and is the only vinyl I have.

I have still rolled it up but in all reality folding it should be fine as the acrylic sheets will effectively flatten it.

The only nicety I am looking for now is a way of joining the acrylic to create smooth joins/reflections. I'm thinking almost of gaffer tape underneath and sellotape on top.

I've got another session booked on Friday so we'll see how that goes.

I also want to explore use of black material to get rid of spill and wrap and the support systems I need to do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top