FITP Hi-light background thread!!!!

get one side folded over and the other will move over easier :) might take a few goes to get used to it but I can take it down in less than 10secs. - And I'm a weakling!

Maybe if I film my first attempt it can either be posted as a guide or used on a future episode of 'You've been framed'. ;P
 
I'm sure there's a couple of videos on the web. there used to be two on You Tube - Mark Cleghorn's and another guy (Mario) on a different forum. He wedged one end into his sofa (between floor and wall would do) and that gave him the base to work from. I've never needed that.
 
Its worth watching the Mark Cleghorn one - I was a bit worried about folding it up but have found it to be a lot easier than I imagined!
 
Its worth watching the Mark Cleghorn one - I was a bit worried about folding it up but have found it to be a lot easier than I imagined!

+1

This is exactly the technique I use with teh large one - seems to work better from one set of diagonal corners than the other. Bottom right corner towards me with the highlite face up works for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS-N9eJzgxg
 
Received, many thanks Graham. :D

Going to need to research the best place for flash placement as at f/8 ISO 200 with 2 SB900s at 1/8 I was still getting a fair amount of spill. Any lower and it wasn't blown.

After seeing how large it was up I didn't think I'd be able fold it down. Luckily it went pretty smooth! :thumbs:
 
Right then - spent a couple of hours playing with lighting it using my 2 yongnuos on either side of the hilite. Best results were:

Both flashes had the diffuser over the lens AND (this helped a fair bit) the bounce card "protecting" the front of the hilite. Each was aimed toward the back middle. The biggest issue I had was trying to get the hilite immediately in front of the speedlites not to be too hot.

Result was (deliberately underexposed to show evenness):

IMG_1284.jpg


All points except the far corners were within 1 stop (measured using my sekonic 358).

I then added a subject:

Subject is about 3 feet from hilite key light is just of axis above and to camera right. BG was meausred at f11, subject setup to give f8, result:

Image has had some sharpening otherwise it is straight out of the camera.

I would really value some detailed feedback on this last image in terms of detectable spill, etc.

IMG_1279.jpg
 
Looks good to me and the spill seems quite well controlled, however the real test I guess is human size shots where the extreme edges of the drop would be visible. I need to experiment more with mine to try and smooth it out.
 
Hodders - looks really good. What's the bounce card you refer to? Can you show us a picture of the flashes with this in place? 1 stop across the lot is good going I would say - and the results so far look quite pleasing!
 
The bounce card is just the small white square bit of plastic that sits in the head of the flash and tends to come out at the same time as the wide angle diffuser. It comes as standard with the yongnuo flashes.

It is probably nearer 2 stops in the extreme corners to be honest, the flashes were on 1/4 power. I could up the power and keep F11 on the BG with the benefit of a lower ISO (I shot these at 400).

Flash positions were half way up on both sides (you get a good idea of where on the first image). I reckon you could get more even light again by using a bounce card like:

http://www.themoment2cherish.com/DIY-Bounce-Card/

I'm currently sourcing some white vinyl to set up as a train which will introduce a whole new set of lighting fun.
 
I had the small FITP High-Light, and the most even lighting I could get was using a similar technique to Hodders. That gave me a range of three stops across a usable area which I found completely unacceptable. I can do better than that with a white paper background.

I returned it to Graham but I can tell you he was not best pleased. He told me that he does not "send goods out on approval" despite the fact that all I had been told was the size and that it was a 'HiLite copy'. It is actually nothing like a genuine HiLite inside. He has now taken umbrage and has refused to have any further dealings with me, which is a pity.

This is what I got using two Canon 580EX guns, heads turned vertically for better top-to-bottom evenness, with the diffuser panel down and a small piece of card shielding light from the front of the High-Light. Guns were pointed to the middle-back.

The area in the centre is just blown to pure white, and the area to either side is one stop up on that. One foot in from each corner is a further two stops down on the centre, so a three stops variation. In addition, I tried it with Stofens on, and with my Elinchrom studio heads, with and without reflectors. That was worse. I tried it every which way.

The problem is that first of all the corners are black. Just lining the corners with white paper makes a useful difference. Secondly, the front diffusion material is very thin like a shoot-through umbrella. In the original Lastolite, it is a much thicker and softer material with far better diffusion characteristics. Finally, most the light is wasted out of the back and sides; the Lastolite has an opaque back and almost opaque sides, so all the light is reflected, bounced around and forced out of the front. That is why the Lastolite product is even to within one stop, and the FITP version can never get near that.

IMG_8665-1.jpg
 
I returned it to Graham but I can tell you he was not best pleased. He told me that he does not "send goods out on approval" despite the fact that all I had been told was the size and that it was a 'HiLite copy'. It is actually nothing like a genuine HiLite inside. He has now taken umbrage and has refused to have any further dealings with me, which is a pity.

You're quite right, Richard, I don't "send goods out on approval", nor do I do partial reversals of trades. I offered to take the item back on the day that you received it on return of all of the items I had sent you in exchange (plus all the extra free items I sent you along with it), however you wanted me to keep the camera you traded and pay you your full asking price for it.

When I said no, that I wanted to reverse the trade, you ignored that request and only returned some of the items I had sent you and it's taken me a week and numerous emails to get the rest back from you.

That, and the fact that you actually complained about a free item I sent you along with a previous sale (which I replaced) are why I don't want to do business with you again, it has absolutely nothing to do with your wishing to return the HighLight to me.
 
So is the one you had the same front and back hoppy? As you say the inside of the Lastolite is a sort of shiny white that refects the light back out the front and the back of the back panel (if you know what i mean) is black - so no light getting out of the back. There is a little light lost at the sides through the open zips but as you say it's pretty minimal.
 
You're quite right, Richard, I don't "send goods out on approval", nor do I do partial reversals of trades. I offered to take the item back on the day that you received it on return of all of the items I had sent you in exchange (plus all the extra free items I sent you along with it), however you wanted me to keep the camera you traded and pay you your full asking price for it.

When I said no, that I wanted to reverse the trade, you ignored that request and only returned some of the items I had sent you and it's taken me a week and numerous emails to get the rest back from you.

That, and the fact that you actually complained about a free item I sent you along with a previous sale (which I replaced) are why I don't want to do business with you again, it has absolutely nothing to do with your wishing to return the HighLight to me.

Graham, none of that is true.

I asked if you would like to keep the camera (part of the trade) assuming that you wanted it, and when you said no, I happily agreed to take it back and pay in full for the other items. This was unacceptable to you.

Far from me causing any delays, it has been you, and indeed I am still awaiting the return of two items even now! Meanwhile, my own postage costs have amounted to almost £40.

If this was not the result of your objecting to my retrurn of the High-Light, and you had previously decided that you didn't want to deal with me, then you would not have suggested the trade to me in the first place. It was your idea.

I have only ever complained to you about items that were faulty/broken on arrival, and apart from suggesting that I had actually broken one such item myself, you have replaced them. As a result, I have been pleased with your products and service and I have personally posted more direct links and recommendations to your For Sale thread than everyone else put together.

Finally, this thread is about your High-Light, not your displeasure at someone returning one because it doesn't work.
 
So is the one you had the same front and back hoppy? As you say the inside of the Lastolite is a sort of shiny white that refects the light back out the front and the back of the back panel (if you know what i mean) is black - so no light getting out of the back. There is a little light lost at the sides through the open zips but as you say it's pretty minimal.

Yes. The material used for the FITP High-Light is very thin, like a shoot-through brolly. It is the same front, back and sides.
 
Graham, none of that is true.

I asked if you would like to keep the camera (part of the trade) assuming that you wanted it, and when you said no, I happily agreed to take it back and pay in full for the other items. This was unacceptable to you.

Far from me causing any delays, it has been you, and indeed I am still awaiting the return of two items even now! Meanwhile, my own postage costs have amounted to almost £40.

If this was not the result of your objecting to my retrurn of the High-Light, and you had previously decided that you didn't want to deal with me, then you would not have suggested the trade to me in the first place. It was your idea.

I have only ever complained to you about items that were faulty/broken on arrival, and apart from suggesting that I had actually broken one such item myself, you have replaced them. As a result, I have been pleased with your products and service and I have personally posted more direct links and recommendations to your For Sale thread than everyone else put together.

Finally, this thread is about your High-Light, not your displeasure at someone returning one because it doesn't work.

I do not want to exchange the camera, I am just looking to return the High-Light (at my substantial cost) and receive from you the assigned value, ie £125.
Richard, the only item that wasn't returned by me (by accident) was the strap from your camera, that was sent out to you today. As for deciding not to deal with you again, that was a result of your unwillingness to return all of my items, NOT as a result of the previous trade.
 
Richard, the only item that wasn't returned by me (by accident) was the strap from your camera, that was sent out to you today. As for deciding not to deal with you again, that was a result of your unwillingness to return all of my items, NOT as a result of the previous trade.

Both the strap Graham, and the spare charger is still to be returned, as you are fully aware.

I was never unwilling to return anything, I simply wanted to keep some items for which I offered to pay in full, in cash posted to you. You rejected that. I immediately returned everything by RMSD.
 
And the spare charger, as you are fully aware.

As far as I am aware that was in the box with the other items, as it was never removed from the package by me, however should it have accidentally become separated from the camera and I still have it then there is absolutely no problem whatsoever in my returning it to you.

I realise that you have motive behind your posts in this thread, however save for not wishing to conduct business with you for the reasons previously mentioned, I bear you no ill-will.

Let me make it clear however that at no point did I say that these backgrounds were 100% carbon copies of the Lastolite Hilite, they're not. They are a Chinese interpretation of them, at a fraction of the price.

Obviously there are, as you stated in your initial pm, differences. The main ones you highlighted (if you pardon the pun) were the zips and the black corners. Both of these appear to be easily remedied by diy means and given a price that is a third that of the Lastolite expecting an identical product is a tad unrealistic.
 
As far as I am aware that was in the box with the other items, as it was never removed from the package by me, however should it have accidentally become separated from the camera and I still have it then there is absolutely no problem whatsoever in my returning it to you.

I realise that you have motive behind your posts in this thread, however save for not wishing to conduct business with you for the reasons previously mentioned, I bear you no ill-will.

What is my motive Graham? It is only to inform other buyers who are obviously having the same problem that I did, of the reasons for that. My post above bears this out. It is only you that have chosen to make the whole affair into a personal one, including another completely unwarrantied attack in one of my current For Sale threads (just a few minutes ago) accusing me of hishonesty! And you bear me no ill-will... What is your motive? :thinking:

Let me make it clear however that at no point did I say that these backgrounds were 100% carbon copies of the Lastolite Hilite, they're not. They are a Chinese interpretation of them, at a fraction of the price.

Obviously there are, as you stated in your initial pm, differences. The main ones you highlighted (if you pardon the pun) were the zips and the black corners. Both of these appear to be easily remedied by diy means and given a price that is a third that of the Lastolite expecting an identical product is a tad unrealistic.

The only thing we know Graham, is that these are Chinese copies of the Lastolite HiLite, and the size. I think we have a reasonable expectation that they are at least a close copy in terms of basic functionality, regardless of the price. Speaking of which, you charge £125 for the smaller High-Light, whereas the similar sized 5x7ft Lastolite version is £225 at Warehouse Express, not £375 by your "third of the price" estimate.

Yes, there are differences. I have outlined them all to you and three of them in particular are fundamental - the black corners, the thin front diffuser, and the non-opaque back and sides. If you do not get those things right, it cannot work. You told me that you thought the manufacturers had probably never even seen a genuine Lastolite HiLite, which I find extraordinary, but it maybe explains everything.
 
including another completely unwarrantied attack in one of my current For Sale threads (just a few minutes ago) accusing me of hishonesty!

I merely pointing out, as you have done on this thread, an area where I feel that the item does not meet expectations.

The only thing we know Graham, is that these are Chinese copies of the Lastolite HiLite, and the size. I think we have a reasonable expectation that they are at least a close copy in terms of basic functionality, regardless of the price.

I'm sorry Richard, but yours appears to be the only dissenting post in the thread and indeed you have been the only person to contact me with a complaint.

Yes, there are differences. I have outlined them all to you and three of them in particular are fundamental - the black corners, the thin front diffuser, and the non-opaque back and sides. If you do not get those things right, it cannot work.

Yet it appears to work in the images posted on the thread
 
I merely pointing out, as you have done on this thread, an area where I feel that the item does not meet expectations.

Or more truthfully, you have chosen to resurrect my For Sale thread from the archives to point out that the camera you asked me to trade for the High-Light showed more wear on the hot-shoe paint than was consistent, in your opinion, with only 3,000 exposures.

That camera has done less than 3,000 exposures. I guarantee it. You said yourself when you received it that it was like new!

Staff Edit: section removed


Yet it appears to work in the images posted on the thread

They all show clear evidence of all the problems I have commented on. Namely bleaching of the subject outline due to the excessive levels of over-exposure necessary to get a clean white over a resonable area, and/or a lot of cleaning up the grey areas in post processing.

This is not necessary with the genuine Lastolite version, and it would not be necessary with your version if the correct materials were used in its construction. They are not expensive either. It could be very good if properly designed, as we discussed by PM - it appears to be well made.

The best result that I could get resulted in a three-stops variation in brightness, and that was not even going closer than one foot from the black corners. That is not acceptable. I can do miles better than that with a plain paper background. Your product doesn't work as it should. I think it is time you took some responsibility for this, rather than attempting to shoot the messenger.
 
Okay, I have all the pms between us saved and am passing this to the admin to deal with.

I have them too, so you have saved me doing it. Please don't miss any out.
 
I'm sure the relevant admin will intervene at some point - and although you both have issues - I don't think the public forum is the best place to vent your personal feelings... (Neither of you are doing your reputations much good here)
 
I'm sure the relevant admin will intervene at some point - and although you both have issues - I don't think the public forum is the best place to vent your personal feelings... (Neither of you are doing your reputations much good here)

I know, and you're quite right. It's unfortunate.

But I thought I had to post my findings about FITP's High-Light, for those that have bought one or are thinking about it. There is a lot of interest in it, and it is not cheap.
 
I'm sure the relevant admin will intervene at some point - and although you both have issues - I don't think the public forum is the best place to vent your personal feelings... (Neither of you are doing your reputations much good here)

I AGREE
 
To clarify my position, I had no input into the design or manufacture of these products (save for the addition of the velcro at the base of the front section) and was working purely from the information supplied by the manufacturers.

The price they were sold for was just over what it cost (excluding my time and phone calls etc) to bring them into the country and this was done purely because people were asking for a less expensive alternative to the branded product. I have, however passed Richards observations on to the manufacturer and they tell me that they have been producing these for quite some time now and his complaint is the only one they have received.

Nevertheless I have commissioned (at my expense) a set of white panels to fit the internal corners of the HighLight and these will be available shortly, free of charge, to any of the buyers who wish them.
 
Graham, I think that is more than you needed to do... It should be obvious to anyone with a brain cell that your version will not be as good as the original, but it will be a lot cheaper. In most cases, you do get what you pay for...
 
Graham, I think that is more than you needed to do... It should be obvious to anyone with a brain cell that your version will not be as good as the original, but it will be a lot cheaper. In most cases, you do get what you pay for...

Simon, it is only obvious now the that FITP High-Light is not as good as the original, mainly because of the information I have provided.

Before then, those people like me who acquired one from the first batch had no information whatsoever on the design, the materials, or the performance.

It could easily be a very good product, just as good as the original, by using appropriate materials in the right places, at negligible extra cost. Perhaps that is what will now happen with a new batch. It requires more than just whitening the corners - I tried that and it's an improvement but not a fix; the back and sides should not be transluscent.
 
Simon, it is only obvious now the that FITP High-Light is not as good as the original, mainly because of the information I have provided.

Before then, those people like me who acquired one from the first batch had no information whatsoever on the design, the materials, or the performance.

It could easily be a very good product, just as good as the original, by using appropriate materials in the right places, at negligible extra cost. Perhaps that is what will now happen with a new batch. It requires more than just whitening the corners - I tried that and it's an improvement but not a fix; the back and sides should not be transluscent.

To reitterate what the factory said Richard, you are the only person to complain and you have had your payment refunded and the issue of the corners has been addressed, at my expense.

You talk about receiving "no information whatsoever on the design, the materials, or the performance", I've already explained that I had no more information about these matters than anyone else prior to the product arriving, yet it appears as to me as if you expect the factory in China to have produced a detailed product specification sheet for it and to have provided that to me prior to placing the order. Have you ever seen ever the kind of data you're talking about displayed for any Chinese light diffusers, or even for that matter the Lastolite Hilite itself? No, neither have I.

Most people realise that if one is only prepared to pay the price of a Chinese copy then one has to accept a trade off, whether it be in build quality, performance or a mixture of both. You have complained about every single facet of this product, so we get the idea, you don't like it.

That's fair enough, I'm doing my best to address the issues that you, and only you have raised, however as you no longer own one of said products I can't really see how it effects you in any way, shape, or form any more or indeed how you can contribute anything new to this thread.
 
To reitterate what the factory said Richard, you are the only person to complain and you have had your payment refunded and the issue of the corners has been addressed, at my expense.

You talk about receiving "no information whatsoever on the design, the materials, or the performance", I've already explained that I had no more information about these matters than anyone else prior to the product arriving, yet it appears as to me as if you expect the factory in China to have produced a detailed product specification sheet for it and to have provided that to me prior to placing the order. Have you ever seen ever the kind of data you're talking about displayed for any Chinese light diffusers, or even for that matter the Lastolite Hilite itself? No, neither have I.

Most people realise that if one is only prepared to pay the price of a Chinese copy then one has to accept a trade off, whether it be in build quality, performance or a mixture of both. You have complained about every single facet of this product, so we get the idea, you don't like it.

That's fair enough, I'm doing my best to address the issues that you, and only you have raised, however as you no longer own one of said products I can't really see how it effects you in any way, shape, or form any more or indeed how you can contribute anything new to this thread.

Graham, since I have been the only one to complain, then the modifications you are making can only be the result of my ligitimate comments. I think that's good. And if that makes everybody happy, then you have no reason to make further comments either. Unless you want to of course.

But if somebody implies that I have less than one brain cell and shouldn't expect anything better of a Chinese copy, then I think some explanation is entirely justified. My experience of Chinese copies in general is that they are very good - pretty much the same thing, but cheaper, but that is not the case here.

People are now in a better position to make their own judgement. That has always been my sole intention, and remains so.
 
Graham, since I have been the only one to complain, then the modifications you are making can only be the result of my ligitimate comments. I think that's good. And if that makes everybody happy, then you have no reason to make further comments either. Unless you want to of course.

But if somebody implies that I have less than one brain cell and shouldn't expect anything better of a Chinese copy, then I think some explanation is entirely justified. My experience of Chinese copies in general is that they are very good - pretty much the same thing, but cheaper, but that is not the case here.

People are now in a better position to make their own judgement. That has always been my sole intention, and remains so.

Fair enough, naturally you received comprehensive information on the design, the materials, or the performance before making those purchases, right?

As for my having "no reason to make further comments either", I beg to differ, as the seller I am implicitly linked with the product, so I think I have every reason to answer any queries or criticsms of it. You, by contrast have no connection to the product, yet you feel the need to continue to adding your t'uppence worth, long after you made your position clear.
 
Fair enough, naturally you received comprehensive information on the design, the materials, or the performance before making those purchases, right?

As for my having "no reason to make further comments either", I beg to differ, as the seller I am implicitly linked with the product, so I think I have every reason to answer any queries or criticsms of it. You, by contrast have no connection to the product, yet you feel the need to continue to adding your t'uppence worth, long after you made your position clear.

Graham, please allow me the courtesy to respond to other people's comments. That's all I have done. Feel free to do the same.

I have absolutely no axe to grind here. If I wanted to make a fuss about it, I might have started my own thread, or I could have posted you negative feedback on this particular deal, or I could have put something directly on your For Sale thread.

I have done none of those things and indeed I will probably continue to refer people to you, as I have conspicuously done in the past, because I generally believe you offer a good and helpful service. I don't want to stop doing that either because I think it's valuable to others.

Meanwhile, I would like this thread to get back on topic.
 
Just gonna butt in here, this discussion seems to be going in circles & its doing nothing for this poticular thread. Why don't you [hoppyuk] post up a review of said Chinese hilite and point out what you think is wrong and how to rectify it then we can all see what the limitations are of the product. I know you've already mentioned the translucent sides and lack of reflection in the corners but a few pictures would help [not looked through the whole thread so slap my wrists if they are in there],
I've not had any problems with FITP or his products, I'm not saying just because you pay less you should expect less but they are essentially cheap and cheerful :) and you've got to take them with a pinch of salt at the end of the day.
Hopefully not opened a new can of hilite worms


Morgan.
 
Just gonna butt in here, this discussion seems to be going in circles & its doing nothing for this poticular thread. Why don't you [hoppyuk] post up a review of said Chinese hilite and point out what you think is wrong and how to rectify it then we can all see what the limitations are of the product. I know you've already mentioned the translucent sides and lack of reflection in the corners but a few pictures would help [not looked through the whole thread so slap my wrists if they are in there],
I've not had any problems with FITP or his products, I'm not saying just because you pay less you should expect less but they are essentially cheap and cheerful :) and you've got to take them with a pinch of salt at the end of the day.
Hopefully not opened a new can of hilite worms


Morgan.

It's all in post #170.

I agree that FITP offers a good service. I have a several of his products, and have recommended him numerous times on this site - loads of times actually, and I will continue to do so.

The problem is with this particular High-Light product he sells, nothing else.
 
I have spent some time playing around with this kit and whilst it is true that a couple of pretty minor mods would have made a difference to it's performance my comments would be:

1) White inserts to the corners - a great idea and top marks to Graham (FITP) for offering these FOC. This should really help

2) Non opaque sides and back. Sure some light will spill out. The surface are of the sides/top/bottom is small compared to the back. However, more light will make up for this. Spill will be limited in most cases as the back of the hilite will be against a wall and the bottom against the floor. And the sides/top are a fairly small area.

3) Side zips - to allow landscape orientation - easily added.

HoppyUKs point about small design changes, minimal cost etc are fair (and worth reiterating to the manufacturers). But no-one told me to buy one. I could have waited and got detailed questions answered/example posted but I made the decision to buy and Graham's comms and speed of despatch were first rate.

I have bought 2 flashes, 4 wireless triggers, 2 shoot through brollies, 2 ball head adapters and a large hilite from FITP. The hilite is the only product that is less than 10/10 in terms of what it says it does 'vs' what it does do. Even then I would still rate it 8/10 (and yes I would buy it again). So put me firmly in the happy customer group.

Cheers Graham !
 
Hi All, I'm new on here & I am considering the hilight from FITP & have also read through the ongoing posts about it's limitations etc which I think I could work around. I would like to know if any modifications have been made for future versions & also hear from some of the other guys on here who have purchased one should maybe they should post some results & prove what can be acheived with a little work. I use vinyl at present & it takes a little work to find your correct workflow for the best results. Where is the link to the items FITP sells please? :)
 
i find it a great bit of kit and fitp goes out his way to help you. one very happy customer.
 
Hi All, I'm new on here & I am considering the hilight from FITP & have also read through the ongoing posts about it's limitations etc which I think I could work around. I would like to know if any modifications have been made for future versions & also hear from some of the other guys on here who have purchased one should maybe they should post some results & prove what can be acheived with a little work. I use vinyl at present & it takes a little work to find your correct workflow for the best results. Where is the link to the items FITP sells please? :)

It is in the Classifieds> Forum advertisers

Linky

How is Little Clacton?
 
Hi Tiler, thanks for link. Little Clacton ok & brightening up! I am Mancunian originaly so how is it up there ?
 
I have just ordered the smaller hilight and can't wait to get my hands on it, despite reading this thread after the purchase. I have to say I realized when I bought it that it is a lot cheaper than the lastolite and have assumed it may not be as good. Having seen the results you people are getting my fear isn't that the product will be good enough. My main concern is that I won't be good enough. I have done practically no work with lighting so I am expecting a steep and at times a frustrating learning curve!
 
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