Fish tank advice

scottduffy

scottduffy

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Hi Folks,

I was buying a fish tank for my son who loves fish and when we were in the shop my wife and i stopped and thought we could do this properly and go the extra mile and get a nice large tank in an oak display for the living room where he spends most of his time playing anyway.

I asked some of the staff in the shop who were not very forthcoming with their expert views so i thought i'd ask here.

First off i will be looking to keep quite a few smaller fish of the clown fish size maybe a tad bigger. I am hoping to have a maybe 3 foot x 2 foot tank or even a 4 foot x 2 foot tank but i am not sure what else i need to purchase. I would imagine i would need a filtration kit and heater but what else?

Is there somewhere you would recommend i could buy the whole package from and what type of tropical fish have the wow factor? I will put in the time to make this work and i just want to have the best display possible. The tank i saw earlier is really lovely and is roughly £1100 but i have no idea how much the heater, filtration kit and fish will cost.

I know this is a pretty broad question but any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Scott
 
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"Clown fish" - you mean Nemo (small saltwater fish) or the freshwater clown fish (will quickly outgrow a 3' tank)?

A schoal of small fish or a mixed community tank will generally be more active and attractive than a few larger fish. The wow factor fish generally need bigger tanks or can be fussy about water paramaters if you want to keep them in good health. Remember, you don't keep fish you keep water - the fish just make it harder to keep the water clean..

If you're completely new to tropical fish I'd suggest at least a 3' tank (too small is harder to keep), playsand substrate (wash it well to get the dust out - it's easier to keep clean than gravel), a little bogwood, plant it up with Crypotornes , T4 lighting and run a canister filter with inline heater (nice and neat, keeps the hardware out of the visible area). I'd rapid cycle it with a couple of drops of ammonia, make sure the water parameters are stable before adding any fish. My favourite pairing of schoaling fish are rummy-nosed tetras and black widow tetras.
 
Hi

You mentioned clown fish so are you thinking of going for Marine fish, if this is you first tank I would advise against Marine as they are so much harder than freshwater tropicals to keep.

Do a search for fish keeping forums, there will be loads of advice on there for you regarding tank size v fish size, water and chemicals needed and the best types of filtration for your chosen tank.

Just go as big as you can first time or you will soon want a bigger one once you are hooked.

Also work out the running costs, marine need very bright lights especially if you plan to add corals, bright lights plus the very powerful pumps needed to give the required 30x turnover of water can cost a small fortune to run, even more so when you have to add a chiller unit because all the lights and pumps make the water over heat to a dangerous level. Plus if you are on a water meter doing the required 20% water changes every month can bring in more hidden costs. Plus marine filtration is quite difficult to get right and going the natural route with live rock is also very expensive to start with and will cost around £200 to £400 just to get you started and sumps take forever to start working if you go that route with a combination of lots of live rock and big active sump tank under the main tank, live micro algae growing in the sump and a big efficient "read" expensive protein skimmer. Plus you need to install a reverse osmosis water filter system to generate all you own water to will the tank and make your monthly water change water. As the water should have a zero total resolved solds reading TDS plus you need to add a basic test kit set for checking Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels plus Calsium and phosphates plus a refracto meter to check the salt consentration and a ph meter.

Dis I mention fresh water was easier and much cheaper, trouble is none of the fish are as colourful as Marines.

Hope this has been of help but ask away if you need anything else.
 
Thanks Alastair,

I meant the smaller type. I was speaking to the folk in the pet shop today and they showed me some lovely fish that i could have but were really unhelpful with the tank selection and even when i asked them to fill me in on whether a novice should consider a cold water, tropical or saltwater tank they were giving me conflicting answers.

What would you suggest for a novice? For the record i am happy to go with whatever i will be able to manage. There's no point in me having a set up with the wow factor only for the wow to turn to woe when the fish start to perish as i cannot manage the tank properly. I'm sure some larger goldfish type fish in a cold water tank decorated properly would be lovely too and if that's much easier to manage then that's fine with me.
 
Hi Paul,

We must have been typing at the same time. I'll read your post now and reply.
 
Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for this mate. Yours and Alastair's is the type of advice i was hoping for. It seems to me then that the saltwater is out of the question as that seems particularly complex for a novice.

So if i choose to go down the freshwater route then what type of set up would i be looking at? Have you any ideas? I was looking today and the large 4 foot tank was beautiful as was the cabinet it was housed in which is going to be an issue as it will more than likely be in the living room. I will check out the freshwater fish just now to see what the tank could look like if put together properly.

Thanks again.

Regards

Scott
 
The freshwater clown fish (aka clown loach or tiger botia, Chromobotia macracanthus) is usually quite small in the shop, but grows to about 20cm and can get quite a bit bigger than that.

The easiest aquarium to start with is tropical freshwater.

I've kept tropical freshwater and a small reef/marine system.. anything saltwater takes a lot of research, patience to set-up and a lot of weekly maintenance. Freshwater tropicals are a lot cheaper, easier and less time consuming to run. Coldwater is also more complex than tropical, a goldfish wants togrow to at least 12' and needs a pond-sized tank to do so.
 
I only have a small 45ltr tank now but i've had larger tanks. You'll need for a start...tank c/w stand, filter, lighting system (if not integral), gravel/substrate, live plants, filter start solution, tap safe solution and obviously water. When you get the tank you'll need to add the plants, gravel & water and then leave it. You then add a couple of hardy fish, leave them for a while to balance the water and then continue to add new fish over a period of time. This can be frustrating as you want to populate the tank from day one but it'll only lead to trouble (dead fish). You can circumnavigate this to a degree buy purchasing conditioned water from certain fish shops which will already have the correct levels (Ammonia 0; Nitrite 0; Nitrate <40, etc.).

With regards to fish...just think 'dog eat dog'. It's far better to get a tank of small community fish that will get along/tolerate eachother than larger fish that want to kill eachother. Although that's a bit broad brush it is usually true. Start with neons, tetras, danios...these are placid and get along. Guppys are pretty but can be fragile if the tank isn't right.

One last point is maintenance. Be prepared to clean/change the water every one/two weeks.

Hope this helps in some small way. Fish tanks are great and definately bring something to a room/house.

Matt
 
I don't have fish, but Alastair above mentioned shoals of Tetras, and I know from my brother in laws tank that they do look great as a shoal nipping around.
Great colours too :-)
 
Hi Scott,

I'd agree wholeheartedly with what Alastair has said - and not a lot more to add to that.
Tropical freshwater is by far the easiest for a beginner, and have a good read up on "fishless cycling" which is what Alastair alluded to with the adding of ammonia.
Essentially this allows you to simulate the effect of having live fish in the water and build up the bacteria colonies that will keep the water healthy before you think about adding fish. It may take a bit of patience but will save a lot of heartache in the long run.

Alastair said:
Remember, you don't keep fish you keep water - the fish just make it harder to keep the water clean..
Click to expand...

THIS is the single most important piece of advice that anyone will ever give you about keeping fish!!!
If you want to do this properly you'll find yourself going back to chemistry class and learning all about the nitrogen cycle :lol:


p.s. when you're ready, my living room tank is seriously overgrown with Java Fern - I desperately need to get in there and do some serious pruning and water gardening - so if you'd like a few pieces to get your plant collection going I'd be happy to donate some to the cause.
 
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All great advice especially about the water
only thing that I would add is that it's worth trying to find a good local fish shop that will help and advise you to get started
if I read your post right the shop you went to wasn't very helpful
 
Yeah defo try to find a shop you are confident with.

Danios are my fave shoaling fish, I tend to have half leopard half pepper.

A couple of suckers are a good idea to help keep the glass clean, if you are getting clown coaches they will sort out the bottom, my experience with clown loathes is you need a fair few of them they are right scarcely fish, get one and you'll never see it.

One piece of advice I have always lived by when setting up new tanks is drop a couple of mollies or platys in first, I always use platys as I am not too keen on mollies. They are very hardy fish and great for settling your tank.
 
When I kept tropical fish we had a local place called Coral Bazaar that was huge and had a warehouse size part full of tanks of fish, you could
visit there for a day out
All the tanks had traffic light stickers which tolde you which fish could live together, which needed specialist care etc and the staff all knew
what they were talking about.
I was told you need to mix top, middle and bottom feeders plus ones that would keep the glass clear of algae.
Contrary to what has been said here, it was also said that a well set up and established tank should be like it's own little eco system and rarely need
anything but food added.
Can't say I ever changed the water, occasionally cleared the glass but not often.
Guppies and mollies were a big no for me, they just
kept breeding and we got over run, in the end we just left the young in the tank as live food.
 
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Had two clown loaches, buggers hid behind larger bits of slate and only saw them about three times. Must have come out when the light was off because they cleaned up the snails, also they need different food to the more usual flakes
 
I'd avoid platies because they'll breed like mad, and I'd also avoid mollies because they're technically a semi-brackish water fish not freshwater - and adding any fish to "settle" (aka cycle) the tank is a needlessly cruel practice that went out of fishkeeping a couple of decades ago.

My freshwater tropical set-up, like Ingrid mentions, rarely needs much maintenance - keep the stocking low, keep live plants, avoid over feeding and you'll probably find that the water in the tank is cleaner than the water from the tap. A periodic water change is necessary to replenish minerals, but only 10-15% by volume and I personally wouldn't do that more than once a month (or less than twice a year), but that is very dependent upon low stock levels and not over-feeding. If children are involved in keeping the tank and feeding the fish, expect over-feeding and do a 10-15% water change at least once per fortnight.

Must tackle the tank this week - it is in need of an overhaul, I'll be switching back to play sand on the base because the "proper" planted tank medium has been a nightmare to keep clean and is now starting to break down.
 
the first thing to check is will the floor support the weight where you intend to put it a 3 or 4 foot tank is extremely heavy .also it should be kept out of direct sunlight from a window as this will turn the glass green with algae growth extremely fast and need constant cleaning .you will also need access to a nearby electric socket to save wires all over the floor .if your just going for freshwater set-up (as advised by the others and me) then good colourful fish to start with are guppies which come in lots of colours and also breed well and mollies which come in black ,green or golden varieties and have lovely sail fins ,personally i recommend the golden mollies as they look spectacular .
for set up you will need a good filter system ,under gravel is best .heater/thermostat ,gravel or sand ? .inert rocks and a selection of plants .i always found it better to buy any any equipment ,fish ,plants etc from a aquarium specialist shop rather than a pets at home type superstore .the smaller shop having far better staff levels that will take more interest in what your doing .rather than the attitude you have already encountered in fact i would give your first choice of shop the elbow and seek out somewhere helpful even if its a longer journey
 
I don't mind travelling at all and I'm going to have a search online today to see if I can find any specialist dealers in the Glasgow/Lanarkshire area and pay them back visit.

Thanks again for all the advice. I just came across a site which sells fancy goldfish including lion head orandos and they look very nice too.

There are plenty of options now that the saltwater tank is out. I'll let you know what I find.
 
scottduffy said:
I just came across a site which sells fancy goldfish including lion head orandos and they look very nice too.
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OK, if you do go down that route that's a different set up to freshwater tropical that we've been talking about.
Goldfish are coldwater fish, so that will limit what else you can have in the tank with them.
In fact, it pretty much rules out anything else in the tank except the Goldfish - once they reach adult size they'll eat any other fish that they can fit in their mouth!

A few other things to be aware of with fancy Goldfish :

> They grow BIG. Even fancy GF can get to 6"-8" in length (if not more, depending on the breed)
> You need to go heavy on the filtration. GF are carp and have no 'proper' stomach as such and this makes them poop machines!
> Although you need heavy filtration, you also need your filter set up to minimise any current in the tank, because of their shape and fancy tails they're not strong swimmers.
> Fancy GF have been heavily interbred to get the features that you see and this makes them fairly weak fish. They need a lot of care because they're prone to health problems. Lion Head Orandas in particular often suffer from fungal and bacterial infections around the crown on their heads.

In my personal opinion, not a good choice for a new fishkeeper.
 
Alastair said:
adding any fish to "settle" (aka cycle) the tank is a needlessly cruel practice that went out of fishkeeping a couple of decades ago.
Click to expand...

100% agreed. If you take anything else away from this thread Scott, it should be to do some research into "fishless cycling".

I know this is kind of the Nikon vs Canon of the fishkeeping world.
Some aquatic shops and some fishkeepers will recommend bunging some 'filter start' and a few hardy fish in to get things going. Do your own research, make your own mind up, but I would strongly advise against it.

> You WILL cause needless suffering to the fish you use to cycle your tank.
> If you want to keep those fish alive, you'll be in for weeks of large water changes just to maintain a habitable level of ammonia (and later nitrites) in the water.
> Assuming that the fish do survive, you'll be lumbered with a few fish in your tank that you didn't really want and that are not part of the final stocking plan for that tank.

Alastair said:
Must tackle the tank this week - it is in need of an overhaul, I'll be switching back to play sand on the base because the "proper" planted tank medium has been a nightmare to keep clean and is now starting to break down.
Click to expand...

FWIW I've had a dual layer substrate in mine for years.
A thin layer of 'aquatic' low mineral compost for the plants to root in, covered up by a heavier layer of play sand for cosmetics. Every 6 weeks or so I have a good poke around in there with a bamboo skewer to prevent it getting too compressed and stop any gas pockets building up and it's worked like a dream.
 
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I think the main thing with having fish is the amount of work needed to keep the tank in good order. I used to have a large 120 litre tank with pipes and a filter under the tank and it was quite a business to keep clean so now have a smller 60 litre "jewel" tank with internal filter so no plumbing required. Its amazing how algae can build up on the glass so this needs removing at least weekly. I think tropical freshwater is the best option for a first tank as i'd imagine saltwater is very involved and pricey. Ive got a selection of about 20 small fish and a few shrimps and 2 rabbit snails.
 
Thanks SarahLee. These are all the things I need to know. Looks like I'll be doing some heavy research and going down the tropical freshwater route.
 
I've kept fish loads of times, cold water, tropical freshwater and marine, but I'd be most attracted to the African Cichlids from Lakes Malawi and Tanganyika. They have colours to almost rival marines and have fascinating breeding behaviour. Bit aggressive and territorial though!
 
Alastair said:
I'd avoid platies because they'll breed like mad, and I'd also avoid mollies because they're technically a semi-brackish water fish not freshwater - and adding any fish to "settle" (aka cycle) the tank is a needlessly cruel practice that went out of fishkeeping a couple of decades ago.
Click to expand...

SarahLee said:
100% agreed. If you take anything else away from this thread Scott, it should be to do some research into "fishless cycling".

I know this is kind of the Nikon vs Canon of the fishkeeping world.
Some aquatic shops and some fishkeepers will recommend bunging some 'filter start' and a few hardy fish in to get things going. Do your own research, make your own mind up, but I would strongly advise against it.

> You WILL cause needless suffering to the fish you use to cycle your tank.
> If you want to keep those fish alive, you'll be in for weeks of large water changes just to maintain a habitable level of ammonia (and later nitrites) in the water.
> Assuming that the fish do survive, you'll be lumbered with a few fish in your tank that you didn't really want and that are not part of the final stocking plan for that tank.



FWIW I've had a dual layer substrate in mine for years.
A thin layer of 'aquatic' low mineral compost for the plants to root in, covered up by a heavier layer of play sand for cosmetics. Every 6 weeks or so I have a good poke around in there with a bamboo skewer to prevent it getting too compressed and stop any gas pockets building up and it's worked like a dream.
Click to expand...

if these comments have spurned from what I wrote then you have you have mis read what I meant, or I didn't write it correctly..

either way you are both la la off in the other direction but hey we like the judge and jury attitude round here don't we..:withstupid:
 
strumstrum said:
if these comments have spurned from what I wrote then you have you have mis read what I meant, or I didn't write it correctly..

either way you are both la la off in the other direction but hey we like the judge and jury attitude round here don't we..:withstupid:
Click to expand...


Nope.
If it had been in response to your post I would have quoted you :p
I was just reiterating and expanding on what I had already said further up the thread before you posted and which seemed to have gotten lost amongst the other postings and advice.

Seems I was right in saying that the topic brings out the worst in people just like the Canon vs Nikon thing though :lol:
 
strumstrum said:
Then I humbly apologise @SarahLee, I am a cranky beggar tonight.

I will now be putting the tablet down.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted :)
Looking at the crap that's currently on TV I think you're better off sticking with the tablet - unless you want to get even crankier!

Go grab yourself a beer/ coffee / other beverage of your choice and I hope your evening gets better.
 
One other consideration if you are planning on putting it in the lounge is that it will make some noise, probably not a lot but some. From the filter/pump running and maybe from the water return to the tank. I don't have my tank in the living room for this reason as it irritates me. You may not be quite so fussy as me though.
 
Why not have your tank made to measure? Can work out cheaper than off the shelf. These are good people (there are others and I have no affiliation with them) http://www.ndaquatics.co.uk/ - there are a few good forums for fishkeeping too, some are specialist forums some are generalist, all usually offer sound advice plus the usual head cases - usually easy to work out which is which ;)

Agree with most of the advice offered here too. Good luck and have fun :)
 
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